Preexistence

[Jodi Lee]

So the infant was perfect Irene?

The infant didn't have to grow in grace and knowledge?

Hebrews 5:8  though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.  9  And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

The child born of Mary was MADE perfect. He was also MADE into a Master and Christ. Christ did not LITERALLY come down from heaven, Christ was made on earth.

Acts 2:33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.  34  For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand,  35  Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” '   36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

Jesus received the PROMISE, which gave him eternal life. Eternal life we are told in scripture was a PROMISE existing in the beginning IN the Father's WORDS. No scripture tells us of the glory of some spirit son and what that glory was. We are told directly that Jesus received the GLORY of eternal life, and we see in scripture that Jesus's FLESH was not allowed to SEE CORRUPTION and that after being resurrected from being dead he indeed was made of FLESH and BONES. The PROMISE that Acts says Jesus received exists nowhere in scripture as reflecting that Jesus was promised to go back to some other form of what he was before. However we known from DIRECT scripture that Eternal Life was PROMISED to HUMANS before time began as was the MAN Jesus was also promised before time began.

Hebrews 7:26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens;  27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people's, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.  28 For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.

Hebrews 6:11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the end,  12  that you do not become sluggish, but imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.  13  For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself,  14  saying, “Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you.”   15  And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.  16  For men indeed swear by the greater, and an oath for confirmation is for them an end of all dispute.  17 Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath,  18  that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we might  have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us.  19  This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil,  20 where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.

Titus 3:7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Irene scripture tells us DIRECTLY that JESUS CHRIST was SENT, not that a spirit son was sent to be Jesus Christ. The MAN of the promise finally came from God, COMING therefore FROM Heaven. This MAN we are directly told was a PROMISE that existed before time began. Jesus was MADE Christ. How can JESUS CHRIST LITERALLY be SENT down from heaven, if the CHRIST was something God made out of the MAN Jesus on earth?

The SENDING of Jesus Christ, was the sending of the man anointed at the river Jordon out into the world to preach the gospel and heal the sick. The sending of God's Son to die for us was NOT the sending of a spirit son down from heaven, it was the sending of the MAN, God KEPT from sin THROUGH His Spirit, to die on the cross even though he was not deserving of death.

This is what I find SO horrible about your way of thinking Irene, you change God's GLORY and you change the GLORY of His Son, into complete falsehood. You say that Jesus HAD TO BE MORE THAN JUST A MERE MAN, otherwise he would have sinned. Such a statement is truly baffling to me, for you confess you actually read and study the bible. Good Grief, you speak blatant ANTICHRIST IMO!! God does NOT have the Power to cause man to walk perfectly in His ways??? What SHAME you speak of IMO. Jesus walked without sin not because he was MORE then human, but because God's Spirit was at work within his FLESH. Scripture says Jesus WAS PERFECTED through suffering. You say however that Jesus was  BORN perfect. So what is the TRUTH Irene, your ideas, or the SCRIPTURES?

Luke 1:30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.” 34 Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?” 35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.  36 Now indeed, Elizabeth your relative has also conceived a son in her old age; and this is now the sixth month for her who was called barren. 37 For with God nothing will be impossible.”……. 68 “Blessed is the Lord God of Israel, For He has visited and redeemed His people, 69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us In the house of His servant David, 70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets, Who have been since the world began, 71 That we should be saved from our enemies And from the hand of all who hate us, 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers And to remember His holy covenant, 73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham.

There is NO morphing of some spirit being into the womb of Mary. What was conceived in Mary, CAME FROM GOD, therefore COMING DOWN FROM HEAVEN.

Luke 2:11 For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

Acts 13: 34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: 'I will give you the sure mercies of David.' 35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm: 'You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.' 36 “For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 but He whom God raised up saw no corruption. 38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgivene
ss of sins;

Romans 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name

God’s Son is JESUS CHRIST born of the seed of David, God’s son is NOT some other creature who became for awhile a human of David's seed. David was told that of his seed there would be a man that God would be a Father to. God NEVER told David that He would transform the son He already had into being of his seed.  

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel,

Revelation 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

Irene, I am under the impression that you'd rather rely on your own ideas made through inferences to a handful of scriptures, then believe the following scriptures.

Acts 2:30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, 35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” ' 36“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

Acts 13:22 And when He had removed him, He raised up for them David as king, to whom also He gave testimony and said, 'I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My own heart, who will do all My will.' 23 From this man's seed, according to the promise, God raised up for Israel a Savior–Jesus— 24 after John had first preached, before His coming, the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. 25 And as John was finishing his course, he said, 'Who do you think I am? I am not He. But behold, there comes One after me, the sandals of whose feet I am not worthy to loose.' 26 Men and brethren, sons of the family of Abraham, and those among you who fear God, to you the word of this salvation has been sent. 27 For those who dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they did not know Him, nor even the voices of the Prophets which are read every Sabbath, have fulfilled them in condemning Him. 28 And though they found no cause for death in Him, they asked Pilate that He should be put to death. 29 Now when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb. 30 But God raised Him from the dead. 31 He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people. 32 And we declare to you glad tidings–that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.' 34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: 'I will give you the sure mercies of David.'35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm: 'You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.' 36 “For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 but He whom God raised up saw no corruption. 38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins;

Jesus RECEIVED the mercies of David, the PROMISES of God. Jesus did not GO BACK to some form he was before. Jesus ENTERED INTO as our forerunner, Eternal Life, where his FLESH NEVER saw corruption. This GLORY was with the Father in the beginning IN His WORDS, which also contained the coming MAN Jesus Christ.

[GeneBalthrop]

Jodi………..Very good and accurate Post Sis, you have properly stated the truth, it is a same they just don't get it. Maybe Irene will reconsider her position i hope so.

Peace and love to you and yours Jodi…………………gene

[Jodi Lee]

John 4:25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”

HOW would the Messiah come? Through the planning and power of men?…of course not. The Messiah the Son of Man would COME from Heaven being caused through the power of God's Holy Spirit. How did the promise FROM Heaven come? Through a spirit being literally coming down from heaven and morphing himself into human embryo?….NO, scripture states no such thing. The Word that was in the beginning with God was fulfilled through the power of God's Holy Spirit, bringing forth the human of the seed of David that would be a savior to the world.

John 3:13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

Matthew 20:26  Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. 27 And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave– 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

Luke 18:31 Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem,and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of Man will be accomplished.

John 6:33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

HE who comes down from heaven to give life is the SON of MAN!

2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Before time began God’s purpose was to SAVE MANKIND through the MAN JESUS.

Matthew 1:21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.” 22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: 23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

Jesus the Son of Man, came down from heaven, having come from God’s plan that had existed before time began.

Luke 9:56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them.” And they went to another village.

Luke 19:10 for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.” 11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately.

John 12:23 But Jesus answered them, saying, “The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified. 24 Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain. 25 He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

“HE” that gives life is not a spirit being, it is the Son of Man, Jesus Christ. This True Bread, as he is called, did not literally come down from heaven, he came from heaven, having come from God, being a promise before time began.

The Son of Man was GLORIFIED, this glory is not in the Son of Man going back to what he was before, but is in what was promised before time began, Eternal Life to human beings. This is why Acts tells us that Jesus received the PROMISE and the mercies of David.

Matthew 17:9 Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.”

Matthew 18:11 For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

The Son of Man is said to have ascended where he was before. We are never told that the Son of Man was a spirit being that existed before, but we are told that the prophets spoke of a coming Son of Man, so we know for a fact that BEFORE Jesus was born he was IN the WORD of God spoken by the prophets.  

Jesus the MAN, truly exists IN the WORD of God, He came from heaven as a promise and he went to heaven having fulfilled promises. This Son of Man is not finished fulfilling God's Word. This is what makes Jesus the Word of God. He is the MAN fulfilling God's promises and he is the MAN who speaks God's words, having received them via God's Spirit.

Contrary to what others speak following their inference to a handful of scriptures, it is the Son of Man that is returning, it is not some creature that WAS the Son of Man that went back to what he was before, that is returning.

Scripture does not speak of some spirit son coming down from heaven and then returning to heaven after being a human for awhile.

Scripture spoke of a coming Messiah who would be of the seed of David who God would be a Father to, and this man would be an eternal king, who's flesh would not see corruption.

[Jodi Lee]

Thanks Brother Gene!

It is amazing to me how when people see the name Jesus or Christ, or only begotten Son, or the Son of Man, they don't see the MAN born of the seed of David, but they plug in their ideas of some spirit son, totally taking the scripture out of context.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

God GAVE, the MAN Jesus who's flesh was kept without sin because God's Spirit was working IN him, OVER to the penalty of death allowing him to die on the cross, even though he was not worthy of death.

So many seem to believe that John 3:16 is talking about God giving us His immortal spirit son to become a human being for awhile. This is truly unfortunate antichrist thinking.

Love to you Gene,     Jodi

[Ed J]

Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 30 2010,20:04)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 30 2010,14:31) TT——————————————————- Adam was not a perfect man.   He had a whole garden of trees with food and still sinned the very first day of his creation. But Jesus had been in the desert for 40 days without food and He did not sin ————————————————————————- sorry TT Adam was perfect in all of is nature ,it is true he sin in the first day of his creation,in fact he never lived more  a day,he died befor the day was over. i am glad you learn something t, Sorry but you are adding to the word of God again as usual. Give a scripture which says that Adam was created perfect.  Where does the Bible say Adam was perfect? It says that all things were created “good.” But no where does the Bible say “perfect.” Why did Adam sin if he was perfect? Give a scripture please. I want scripture. I am not interested in your opinions. thinker

Hi TT,

If you want others to be open to 'your' opinions, 'you' should at least consider theirs!

Matt.7:1-5 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:
and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the [speck]
that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the (log) beam that is in thine own eye? Or how will thou say
to thy brother, Let me pull out the [speck] out of thine eye; and, behold, a [log] is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite,
first cast out the [log] out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the [speck] out of thy brother's eye.

Ed J

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 31 2010,04:39)

Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 30 2010,20:04) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 30 2010,14:31) TT——————————————————- Adam was not a perfect man.   He had a whole garden of trees with food and still sinned the very first day of his creation. But Jesus had been in the desert for 40 days without food and He did not sin ————————————————————————- sorry TT Adam was perfect in all of is nature ,it is true he sin in the first day of his creation,in fact he never lived more  a day,he died befor the day was over. i am glad you learn something t, Sorry but you are adding to the word of God again as usual. Give a scripture which says that Adam was created perfect.  Where does the Bible say Adam was perfect? It says that all things were created “good.” But no where does the Bible say “perfect.” Why did Adam sin if he was perfect? Give a scripture please. I want scripture. I am not interested in your opinions. thinker Hi TT, If you want others to be open to 'your' opinions, 'you' should at least consider theirs! Matt.7:1-5 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the [speck] that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the (log) beam that is in thine own eye? Or how will thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the [speck] out of thine eye; and, behold, a [log] is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the [log] out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the [speck] out of thy brother's eye. Ed J

I want scripture Ed. Where does the Bible say that Adam was created perfect?

thinker

[Ed J]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,04:38)

Thanks Brother Gene! It is amazing to me how when people see the name Jesus or Christ, or only begotten Son, or the Son of Man, they don't see the MAN born of the seed of David, but they (Matt.7:1-5) plug in their ideas of some spirit son, totally taking the scripture out of context. Love to you Gene,     Jodi

Hi Jodi,

Hebrew linage: ALWAYS is considered by the males;
you seem to neglect this very important (on topic) Scripture…
Luke 20:41 And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son ?
And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Till I make thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore calleth him(Christ) Lord, how is he(Jesus) then his(David's) son?

Not so accurate Sis,
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[KangarooJack]

Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 31 2010,01:42)

TT, There is no verse explicitly saying that Adam was created “Perfect”. This is because there was no need to – the issue is only brought up because created teh argument surrounding it. GOd created all thing Perfect – how is it he created a perfect spirit Angel but an imperfect Man (in HIS OWN IMAGE – Sacrilege!!) If he did not create Adam in perfection how is Adam then punished when his flaw is exploited. The point is that God KNEW that Adam would sin and designed a contingency plan from the beginning. Just as when he appointed Saul as King over Israel. Saul was Perfect for the position and reigned for [the ubiquituos] 40 years and sinned – Saul was warned about his sinning but he did not stop himself because he was Jealous of David and desirous of guidance from his [dead] Priest against the warnings from God.

JA,

There is no scripture which says that God created everything perfect. It says that He created everything “good.” Good does not mean perfect.

Adam sinned on the very day he was created. Certainly if he was perfect he would have lasted longer than a day. He was created innocent.

I noticed that you did not give any scripture for your “contingency plan” theory. Your “contingency plan” theory supports the view that Adam was not created perfect. If God knew Adam to be perfect then why a “contingency plan?”

Only God is perfect. So for God to create someone perfect is for God to create God. God cannot create God. God gave Adam a law when He created him. Law is for someone who is not perfect.

You don't even know what “sacrilege” is.

thinker

[Ed J]

Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 31 2010,04:46)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 31 2010,04:39) Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 30 2010,20:04) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 30 2010,14:31) TT——————————————————- Adam was not a perfect man.   He had a whole garden of trees with food and still sinned the very first day of his creation. But Jesus had been in the desert for 40 days without food and He did not sin ————————————————————————- sorry TT Adam was perfect in all of is nature ,it is true he sin in the first day of his creation,in fact he never lived more  a day,he died befor the day was over. i am glad you learn something t, Sorry but you are adding to the word of God again as usual. Give a scripture which says that Adam was created perfect.  Where does the Bible say Adam was perfect? It says that all things were created “good.” But no where does the Bible say “perfect.” Why did Adam sin if he was perfect? Give a scripture please. I want scripture. I am not interested in your opinions. thinker Hi TT, If you want others to be open to 'your' opinions, 'you' should at least consider theirs! Matt.7:1-5 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the [speck] that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the (log) beam that is in thine own eye? Or how will thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the [speck] out of thine eye; and, behold, a [log] is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the [log] out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the [speck] out of thy brother's eye. Ed J I want scripture Ed. Where does the Bible say that Adam was created perfect? thinker

Hi Thinker,

Is God faulty in what he creates?
Gen:1:27: So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Was not man created to bring forth the glory of God?
Isaiah 43:7-9 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory,
I have formed him; yea, I have made him. Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and
the deaf that have ears. Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be
assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things?  let them
bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.

Was not man created to bring forth the righteousness of God?
Isa:45:8: Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open,
and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it. (Matt:5:48)

               Was not Jesus sent forth to restore us to our former estate? (John 12:49-50)
Eph:4:13: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
                unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Job 40:1-14 Moreover the [יהוה האלהים] (JEHOVAH=95 GOD) answered Job, and said,
Shall he that contendeth with the “Almighty”=95 instruct him? he that reproveth God,
let him answer it. Then Job answered the LORD, and said, Behold, I am vile;
what shall I answer thee?  I will lay mine hand upon my mouth. Once have
I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.
Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind (Jer.23:19-20), and said,
Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Wilt thou also disannul my judgment?  wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be
righteous? Hast thou an arm like God?  or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?
Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty.
Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him.
Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place.
Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret. Then will
also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee. (Mathew 5:18)

                       “YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center], the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 31 2010,05:02)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,04:38) Thanks Brother Gene! It is amazing to me how when people see the name Jesus or Christ, or only begotten Son, or the Son of Man, they don't see the MAN born of the seed of David, but they (Matt.7:1-5) plug in their ideas of some spirit son, totally taking the scripture out of context. Love to you Gene,     Jodi Hi Jodi, Hebrew linage: ALWAYS is considered by the males; you seem to neglect this very important (on topic) Scripture… Luke 20:41 And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son ? And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I make thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore calleth him(Christ) Lord, how is he(Jesus) then his(David's) son? Not so accurate Sis, Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

David was a PROPHET whom God revealed the coming Messiah to. God told David that this savior would COME FROM HIS SEED and that this MAN of his seed would sit on the kingdom of his throne for eternity.

Jesus is of the seed of David, he is the Son of David, but as scripture tells us the MAN Jesus was MADE by God as a Master and Christ to ALL of MANKIND, thus Jesus is the Master of his own Father David.

Funny how I already had in a document a post on the very scripture you are accusing me of neglecting.

Matthew 22:42 saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?” They said to Him, “The Son of David.” 43 He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him 'Lord,' saying: 44 'The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool” '? 45 “If David then calls Him 'Lord,' how is He his Son?” 46 And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare question Him anymore.

Is it because Jesus pre-existed that he sits at God’s right hand and is master over his father David?

Mark 12:35 Then Jesus answered and said, while He taught in the temple, “How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the Son of David? 36 For David himself said by the Holy Spirit: 'The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” ' 37 Therefore David himself calls Him 'Lord'; how is He then his Son?” And the common people heard Him gladly.

Luke 1:30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.” 34 Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?” 35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.  36 Now indeed, Elizabeth your relative has also conceived a son in her old age; and this is now the sixth month for her who was called barren. 37 For with God nothing will be impossible.”……. 68 “Blessed is the Lord God of Israel, For He has visited and redeemed His people, 69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us In the house of His servant David, 70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets, Who have been since the world began, 71 That we should be saved from our enemies And from the hand of all who hate us, 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers And to remember His holy covenant, 73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham.
There is NO morphing of some spirit being into the womb of Mary. What was conceived in Mary, CAME FROM GOD, therefore COMING DOWN FROM HEAVEN.

Luke 2:11 For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

Acts 13: 34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: 'I will give you the sure mercies of David.' 35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm: 'You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.' 36 “For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 but He whom God raised up saw no corruption. 38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins;

Romans 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name

David died having seen from God the future of his seed being made into a savior and being made into a master. David called his seed his lord for he saw what God had planned for the man made of his own seed.

[Ed J]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,05:54)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 31 2010,05:02) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,04:38) Thanks Brother Gene! It is amazing to me how when people see the name Jesus or Christ, or only begotten Son, or the Son of Man, they don't see the MAN born of the seed of David, but they (Matt.7:1-5) plug in their ideas of some spirit son, totally taking the scripture out of context. Love to you Gene,     Jodi Hi Jodi, Hebrew linage: ALWAYS is considered by the males; you seem to neglect this very important (on topic) Scripture… Luke 20:41 And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son ? And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I make thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore calleth him(Christ) Lord, how is he(Jesus) then his(David's) son? Not so accurate Sis, Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org David was a PROPHET whom God revealed the coming Messiah to. God told David that this savior would COME FROM HIS SEED and that this MAN of his seed would sit on the kingdom of his throne for eternity. Jesus is of the seed of David, he is the Son of David, but as scripture tells us the MAN Jesus was MADE by God as a Master and Christ to ALL of MANKIND, thus Jesus is the Master of his own Father David.

Hi Jodi,

For someone (like you Jodi) that puts themselves in the position of a teacher (1Tm.1:7), aught to have their FACTS CORRECT!
I told you this “once before” when you (with a “W”) incorrectly Posted God's translated Name: “YHVH”! (Matt.13:22 / John 5:44)

You are putting 'spin' on Scripture again! Try to be a little more accurate; OK?
David was NOT Jesus Father! JESUS' FATHER was The “HolySpirit”!

Matt.1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary(Luke 3:23-31)
was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the HolySpirit.
Matt.1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, JOSEPH,
thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary(Luke 3:23-31) thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the HolySpirit.
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her(Luke 3:23-31), The HolySpirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the
Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing(Jesus) which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

                       “YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center], the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[JustAskin]

TT,
What 'Law' did God give to Adam?

Only God is Perfect…? So how do you say that the man, Jesus was 'Perfect'?

The 'Contingency plan'…? How do you say that I didn't give a Scripture. Do you not know what it was? My my… Well, I'll keep you guessing.

Take some time off and investigate and then come back here and reconsider your ideas.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Hi All!

Marty says…

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 29 2010,17:59)

…but this scripture does not mean that he is asking anyone to die for him…

Jesus says…

For whoever wants to save his life* will lose it, but “whoever loses his life for me” and for the gospel will save it. Mark 8:35

Who should we believe?

Blessings WJ

[JustAskin]

All,

Is it Sacrilege to say that God created an 'imperfect' image of Himself.

I will accept all responses.

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,07:35)

Hi All! Marty says… Quote (942767 @ Mar. 29 2010,17:59) …but this scripture does not mean that he is asking anyone to die for him… Jesus says… For whoever wants to save his life* will lose it, but “whoever loses his life for me” and for the gospel will save it. Mark 8:35 Who should we believe? Blessings WJ

Jesus said this:

Quote

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 31 2010,07:01)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,05:54) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 31 2010,05:02) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 31 2010,04:38) Thanks Brother Gene! It is amazing to me how when people see the name Jesus or Christ, or only begotten Son, or the Son of Man, they don't see the MAN born of the seed of David, but they (Matt.7:1-5) plug in their ideas of some spirit son, totally taking the scripture out of context. Love to you Gene,     Jodi Hi Jodi, Hebrew linage: ALWAYS is considered by the males; you seem to neglect this very important (on topic) Scripture… Luke 20:41 And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son ? And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I make thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore calleth him(Christ) Lord, how is he(Jesus) then his(David's) son? Not so accurate Sis, Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org David was a PROPHET whom God revealed the coming Messiah to. God told David that this savior would COME FROM HIS SEED and that this MAN of his seed would sit on the kingdom of his throne for eternity. Jesus is of the seed of David, he is the Son of David, but as scripture tells us the MAN Jesus was MADE by God as a Master and Christ to ALL of MANKIND, thus Jesus is the Master of his own Father David. Hi Jodi, For someone (like you Jodi) that puts themselves in the position of a teacher (1Tm.1:7), aught to have their FACTS CORRECT! I told you this “once before” when you (with a “W”) incorrectly Posted God's translated Name: “YHVH”! (Matt.13:22 / John 5:44) You are putting 'spin' on Scripture again! Try to be a little more accurate; OK? David was NOT Jesus Father! JESUS' FATHER was The “HolySpirit”! Matt.1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary(Luke 3:23-31) was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the HolySpirit. Matt.1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, JOSEPH, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary(Luke 3:23-31) thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the HolySpirit. Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her(Luke 3:23-31), The HolySpirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing(Jesus) which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.                        “YHVH is GOD”=117 PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center], the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]! Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17) 117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

YHWH or YHVH. Either one for me. The Ancient Hebrew Research Center uses YHWH and that is good enough for me.

Luke 1:30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.  31  And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus.  32  He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; andthe Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33  And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”  34  Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”  35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

The Lord God declares the father of the child born unto Mary to be David. We have scripture that tells us that the coming Messiah is to be of the seed of David. Mary did not understand how this could be since she had not known a man, and she was told that her son would come through the POWER of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus was born a flesh and blood human just like us, however the power of God's Spirit is what brought forth his conception, instead of two people mating.

YLT Matthew 1:18 And of Jesus Christ, the birth was thus: For his mother Mary having been betrothed to Joseph, before their coming together she was found to have conceived from the Holy Spirit,

The Power of God's Spirit caused Mary to be conceived with a HUMAN Child.

Let's go over these scriptures I have posted many times yet again,

Acts 2:22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know–  23  Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken  by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death;  24  whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it.  25 For David says concerning Him: 'I foresaw the Lord always before my face, For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.  26  Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad; Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.  27  For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.  28  You have made known to me the ways of life; You will make me full of joy in Your presence.'

David was a PROPHET and he spoke of Jesus as being his Lord through the fact that he saw the future resurrection of Jesus. God promised David that not only would Jesus be raised from the dead, but he too would be. There exists NO scripture where David speaks of Jesus as being his Lord because he pre-existed or because he was some other “being” on top of being a human being.  

29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.  30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of t
he fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.  32  This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.  33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.  34  For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:'The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand,  35  Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” '  36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

Jesus being Lord over David has to do with Jesus being a HUMAN BEING that God raised FIRST from the dead, giving eternal life to. It was because of what God accomplished through His Spirit working in the MAN Jesus, that made Jesus deserving of sitting at God's right hand. Let us believe what scripture says, God had sworn an oath that by the FRUIT of David's body ACCORDING TO THE FLESH God would RAISE UP CHRIST to sit on his throne. David it says foresaw this, he foresaw a MAN of his own FLESH sitting on his throne.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 30 2010,17:19)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,07:35) Hi All! Marty says… Quote (942767 @ Mar. 29 2010,17:59) …but this scripture does not mean that he is asking anyone to die for him… Jesus says… For whoever wants to save his life* will lose it, but “whoever loses his life for me” and for the gospel will save it. Mark 8:35 Who should we believe? Blessings WJ Jesus said this: Quote Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

If that scripture is not enough for you then how about this one…

And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of “the martyrs of Jesus“: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. Rev 17:6

WJ

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,09:43)

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 30 2010,17:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,07:35) Hi All! Marty says… Quote (942767 @ Mar. 29 2010,17:59) …but this scripture does not mean that he is asking anyone to die for him… Jesus says… For whoever wants to save his life* will lose it, but “whoever loses his life for me” and for the gospel will save it. Mark 8:35 Who should we believe? Blessings WJ Jesus said this: Quote Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes Love in Christ, Marty Marty If that scripture is not enough for you then how about this one… And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of “the martyrs of Jesus“: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. Rev 17:6 WJ

Hi WJ:

Not everyone is a Martyr. You did not read what I wrote concerning this. I said that it could mean that I would die as a Martyr but not necessarily.

Maybe you should read some of the commentaries regarding this.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 30 2010,17:52)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,09:43) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 30 2010,17:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,07:35) Hi All! Marty says… Quote (942767 @ Mar. 29 2010,17:59) …but this scripture does not mean that he is asking anyone to die for him… Jesus says… For whoever wants to save his life* will lose it, but “whoever loses his life for me” and for the gospel will save it. Mark 8:35 Who should we believe? Blessings WJ Jesus said this: Quote Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes Love in Christ, Marty Marty If that scripture is not enough for you then how about this one… And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of “the martyrs of Jesus“: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. Rev 17:6 WJ Hi WJ: Not everyone is a Martyr.  You did not read what I wrote concerning this.  I said that it could mean that I would die as a Martyr but not necessarily. Maybe you should read some of the commentaries regarding this. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

I never said everyone should be a Martyr. The contention is Jesus requirement for some is to die for him.

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Matt 16:24

Jesus analogy of being worthy to follow him is to “Take up his cross” and follow him. Which is alluding to his own death on the cross and following him there. So in other words a man must be willing to die for him to follow him!

That would be blasphemy and even Idolatry under Hebrew law!

This kind of devotion given to a mere man was forbidden! It is also the same devotion that cults like “David Koresh” and Jim Jones” and others required of their followers! They all claimed to be Jesus or God!

Yet Paul says he is a Bond slave and a prisoner of Jesus!

That is why Paul called him his “Great God and Savour”, Tit 2:13,.

WJ

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,10:07)

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 30 2010,17:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,09:43) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 30 2010,17:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 31 2010,07:35) Hi All! Marty says… Quote (942767 @ Mar. 29 2010,17:59) …but this scripture does not mean that he is asking anyone to die for him… Jesus says… For whoever wants to save his life* will lose it, but “whoever loses his life for me” and for the gospel will save it. Mark 8:35 Who should we believe? Blessings WJ Jesus said this: Quote Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes Love in Christ, Marty Marty If that scripture is not enough for you then how about this one… And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of “the martyrs of Jesus“: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. Rev 17:6 WJ Hi WJ: Not everyone is a Martyr.  You did not read what I wrote concerning this.  I said that it could mean that I would die as a Martyr but not necessarily. Maybe you should read some of the commentaries regarding this. Love in Christ, Marty Marty I never said everyone should be a Martyr. The contention is Jesus requirement for some is to die for him. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Matt 16:24 Jesus analogy of being worthy to follow him is to “Take up his cross” and follow him. Which is alluding to his own death on the cross and following him there. So in other words a man must be willing to die for him to follow him! That would be blasphemy and even Idolatry under Hebrew law! This kind of devotion given to a mere man was forbidden! It is also the same devotion that cults like “David Koresh” and Jim Jones” and others required of their followers! They all claimed to be Jesus or God! Yet Paul says he is a Bond slave and a prisoner of Jesus! That is why Paul called him his “Great God and Savour”, Tit 2:13,. WJ

Hi WJ:

The Apostle Paul said he died daily.

Maybe the following scriptures will help:

Quote

# Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:19-21 (in Context) Galatians 2 (Whole Chapter) # Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts

Quote

Romans 8:11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

If we follow Jesus, we must be ready to suffer the same things that he suffered in his ministry on this earth, and it may mean that I or you may have to die because we are following him, but the emphasis is to live for him so that the gospel can go forth in this world instead of living our life following the worldly pleasures that we followed prior to becoming his disciples.

Love in Christ,
Marty

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