Preexistence

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 20 2010,14:33)

Luke 24:39…..> Behold me hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit has (not) flesh and bones, as you see (ME) HAVE.

They simply do not believe what Jesus and scripture say. IMO

peace and love to you and your……………gene

you can not explain your own understanding ,you quote scriptures from wen Jesus is on earth ,Marty was try to explain what Jesus was in heaven ,but you like confusion ,

but no explanation ,you really must believe you are equal to God and Christ,that we should believe your opinions and interpretations without scriptures??

March 20, 2010 at 2:57 am#184039

Ed J

Participant

Quote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 20 2010,14:12)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2010,10:32)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 12 2010,06:05)

There is NOT one scripture in the bible that shows Jesus Christ as being the person who gave Isaiah the words of God.

Acts 28:25 So when they did not agree among themselves, they departed after Paul had said one word: “The Holy Spirit spoke rightly through Isaiah the prophet to our fathers, 26 saying, 'Go to this people and say: “Hearing you will hear, and shall not understand; And seeing you will see, and not perceive;

The Holy Spirit…the Spirit of the Father, gave Isaiah God’s word, and in turn Isaiah spoke of the COMING Jesus. When the MAN Jesus was conceived in Mary, Isaiah’s WORDS were fulfilled, making the word of God no longer a promise but a fulfilled promise with a MAN EXISTING in the FLESH!!

Luke 12:12 For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.”

John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

HI Jodi,

“The Word” is the “Holy Spirit”(YHVH)!

Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Are you kidding me? The Word is Jesus.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God and the Word was with God. In verse 14 that Word became flesh.
Rev. 19:13 “He was clothed with a (((robe))) dipped in blood and His name is The Word of God.
verse 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS

That is so clear and I have no idea why you kerwin and Marty cant understand this. Also Scriptures that Jeus is talking that He came down from Heaven.
John 6:38-40 :For I have come down from Heaven, not to do My will, but the will of Him that send Me.
verse 39 “This is the will of the Father who send Me, that I should lose nothing, but should raise it up on the last day.
verse 40 “AND THIS IS THE WILL OF HIM WHO SEND ME, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise Him up on the last day.”

Now there are more Scriptures that shows us that according to what Jesus said,He did exist before the world was. Col. 1:16-17 He is the firstborn of all creation.

Still going to deny? when are you both going to learn this……?
Ed since the Holy Spirit is the Fathers Spirit you have no leg to stand on…..over and out…
Irene

Hi Irene,

Is that all the stuff you learned in the systems of religion?
The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate except
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.
Rev.18:4-5 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people,
that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

You should go by what “The Bible” says instead!
What 'version' of the bible are you quoiting from?
Rev.19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Explain how these verses fit into your system…

Why do you act like Jesus spoke of himself?
John 8:28 …I(Jesus) do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 14:24: He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and
“The Word” which ye hear is not mine, but [God The Father's] which sent me.
John 15:3: Now ye are clean through “The word” which I(Jesus) have spoken unto you.

The “Only” thing I deny is your 'false' interpretations(which are mere opinions)!

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

March 20, 2010 at 3:01 am#184040

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 20 2010,13:34)

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 20 2010,13:27)

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 20 2010,13:03)

He wasnt just an idea or plan either He was a real spirit being. The Word.

Hi K:

A spirit being with a mind, a will, and emotions?

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty

God is Spirit so is christ the word.

Hi K:

Is the Word of God, that which is spoken by God?

March 20, 2010 at 3:06 am#184041

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 20 2010,15:27)

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 20 2010,13:03)

He wasnt just an idea or plan either He was a real spirit being. The Word.

Hi K:

A spirit being with a mind, a will, and emotions?

Love in Christ,
Marty

Hi Marty.

“as a king sends his Son, who is also king, so sent he him, as God he sent him; as men he sent him; as savior he sent him” (Diogneteus to Mathetes -(130 A.D.)

Not the type of Man or Angel but God

“For the divine writing itself teaches us that Adam said that he had heard the voice but what else is this voice but the word of God, who is also his Son” -(Theophilus 115-181 AD)

“But he Jesus is himself in his own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, Lord, and king eternal, and the incarnate word, proclaimed by all the prophets, the apostles …
The Scriptures would not have borne witness to these things concerning Him, if, like everyone else, He were mere man” -(Iranaeus Against Heresies 120-202 AD)

“For with Him were always present the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit, by whom and in whom, freely and spontaneously, He made all things,
to whom also He speaks, saying, 'Let us make man after our image and likeness”.-(Against Heresies, 4:10)

“the Son being in the Father and the Father in the Son, in oneness and power of Spirit, the understanding, and reason of the Father is the Son of God.”-
(Ante Nicene Fathers vol.2 p.133 a plea for Christians)

March 20, 2010 at 3:10 am#184042

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 20 2010,13:26)

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 20 2010,12:58)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 20 2010,12:43)

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 20 2010,12:00)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 20 2010,11:22)

Marty

are you saying that he was dead wen he was with his father

Hi T:

I am saying that the the spirit of the Son was with the Father from the beginning, but he did not exist as a sentient person until he was born of the flesh. It was God's plan to conceive a Son at a particular point in time. He existed in the heart of the Father.

And so, the scriptures state:

Quote

1 John 1

1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

Quote

1 Peter 1:18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty

so if i understand you right;you saying that Christ was inexistent prior to be in the womb of his mother(Mary)
and became a and was a regular man but picked by God to give up his live for the sinful men ,and then God place him at the second place in heaven above all creation for what he did ?

do i got it ?

No, you do not get it. Just read what I said. The spirit of Christ was with the Father from the beginning and also He knew that he would bring forth His Son through the virgin Mary at a particular point in time.

And upon the completion of the work that God gave Jesus to accomplish on earth to redeem humanity, he exalted him to head of the church.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty

you talk and say nothing because you know were i am going and you try to bring me to believe what is wrong ,
I know very well who Christ is and who he is not.

unless you stop to be vague in your explanation and go direct to what it is or you do not understand your self what you talking about.

your scriptures do not reflect you concept.
what i understand from your explanation is that you follow someone else and you thinking trough him ,and it is not Christ,

i follow the scriptures only with,the spirit of Christ and the spirit of God is enough.

No, I have given you my understanding of the scriptures. You can believe whatever you want. I don't see where by belief that Jesus did not pre-exist as a sentient person would take away from your salvation.

The scripture states: “For God so loved the world that he gave His Only Begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. He that believes in him is not condemned but he who does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only Begotten Son of God.

Your belief in pre-existence or my belief that he does not pre-exist as a sentient person has no bearing on our salvation.

You can believe whatever you want to believe.

Love in Christ,
Marty

March 20, 2010 at 3:23 am#184043

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 20 2010,15:06)

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 20 2010,15:27)

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 20 2010,13:03)

He wasnt just an idea or plan either He was a real spirit being. The Word.

Hi K:

A spirit being with a mind, a will, and emotions?

Love in Christ,
Marty

Hi Marty.

“as a king sends his Son, who is also king, so sent he him, as God he sent him; as men he sent him; as savior he sent him” (Diogneteus to Mathetes -(130 A.D.)

Not the type of Man or Angel but God

“For the divine writing itself teaches us that Adam said that he had heard the voice but what else is this voice but the word of God, who is also his Son” -(Theophilus 115-181 AD)

Hi K:

Don't beat around the bush just answer my question. Did Jesus pre-exist his birth into this world as a spirit being with a mind, a will and emotions?

A son of God is someone who obeys the Word of God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

March 20, 2010 at 3:28 am#184044

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 20 2010,17:23)

Hi K:

Don't beat around the bush just answer my question. Did Jesus pre-exist his birth into this world as a spirit being with a mind, a will and emotions?

A son of God is someone who obeys the Word of God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Hi Yes He did, a Spirit being with a mind, a will and emotions. As a Spirit with all these things as we also have, spirit not flesh. That is how I see it.

March 20, 2010 at 3:31 am#184045

Participant

He The Word became flesh where before He wasnt flesh.

March 20, 2010 at 3:57 am#184047

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 20 2010,15:28)

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 20 2010,17:23)

Hi K:

Don't beat around the bush just answer my question. Did Jesus pre-exist his birth into this world as a spirit being with a mind, a will and emotions?

A son of God is someone who obeys the Word of God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Hi Yes He did, a Spirit being with a mind, a will and emotions. As a Spirit with all these things as we also have, spirit not flesh. That is how I see it.

Hi K:

Thanks for telling me how you see it. Following is the way that I understand it.

The first Adam was in God's image in that God breathed the breathe of life into his nostrils and he became a living soul. He was like God in that He had a mind a free will and emotions, but when God gave him the commandment not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the consequence of disobedience, he was in innocence. When he disobeyed then he had a spirit of disobedience.

Jesus did not become a living soul until he was born into this world, and his spirit was formed through obedience to the Word of God, and so it is written that the last Adam was made a life giving spirit. It is this spirit of obedience that gives life to the soul.

Quote

5So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

6As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

7Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Love in Christ,
Marty

March 20, 2010 at 4:48 am#184051

Elizabeth

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2010,14:57)

Quote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 20 2010,14:12)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2010,10:32)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Mar. 12 2010,06:05)

There is NOT one scripture in the bible that shows Jesus Christ as being the person who gave Isaiah the words of God.

Luke 12:12 For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.”

John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

HI Jodi,

“The Word” is the “Holy Spirit”(YHVH)!

Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Now there are more Scriptures that shows us that according to what Jesus said,He did exist before the world was. Col. 1:16-17 He is the firstborn of all creation.

Still going to deny? when are you both going to learn this……?
Ed since the Holy Spirit is the Fathers Spirit you have no leg to stand on…..over and out…
Irene

Hi Irene,

Explain how these verses fit into your system…

Why do you act like Jesus spoke of himself?
John 8:28 …I(Jesus) do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

The “Only” thing I deny is your 'false' interpretations(which are mere opinions)!

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

No, we have not belonged to any Church since 1985. It is God's Holy Spirit that has revealed it to us. When someone told us about this, we did not believe it at first, and then we studied those Scriptures and bingo……
What you are doing with Scriptures is you interpret them to your liking and not the way they are written.
John 1:1 Is the Word and
Rev, 19:13 will show you that it is Jesus who became flesh and not God's Holy Spirit. How can that anyway it is a essence like Patience, hope and Love. Isaiah did talk about Jesus , but it has nothing to do with the other Scriptures in John when Jesus tells us that He came down from Heaven.
John 6:38-40 and John God send Jesus into the world…..He had to be somewhere with the Father so He could send Him, and He did…I am done with you guys, cant teach an old dog new tricks….
Irene

March 20, 2010 at 5:00 am#184053

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 20 2010,15:01)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 20 2010,13:34)

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 20 2010,13:27)

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 20 2010,13:03)

He wasnt just an idea or plan either He was a real spirit being. The Word.

Hi K:

A spirit being with a mind, a will, and emotions?

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty

God is Spirit so is christ the word.

Hi K:

Is the Word of God, that which is spoken by God?

Marty

Jn 1;1 The WORD who was in the begining…

March 20, 2010 at 5:06 am#184054

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 20 2010,15:57)

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 20 2010,15:28)

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 20 2010,17:23)

Hi K:

Don't beat around the bush just answer my question. Did Jesus pre-exist his birth into this world as a spirit being with a mind, a will and emotions?

A son of God is someone who obeys the Word of God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Hi Yes He did, a Spirit being with a mind, a will and emotions. As a Spirit with all these things as we also have, spirit not flesh. That is how I see it.

Hi K:

Thanks for telling me how you see it. Following is the way that I understand it.

Quote

5So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

6As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

7Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Love in Christ,
Marty

K
Marty view are not right ,it make Christ a man who became for one act of obedience the second in power to God the father.this is wrong,not biblical.

the concept of his believe is do to the misunderstanding of God s will in a whole.

and following men s view.

March 20, 2010 at 6:41 am#184061

kerwin

Participant

Terraricca wrote:

Quote

Marty view are not right, it make Christ a man who became for one act of obedience the second in power to God the father. This is wrong, not biblical.

the concept of his believe is do to the misunderstanding of God s will in a whole.

and following men s view.

I am going with Marty on this. I believe that the one act of righteousness is his whole life including his death. Hebrews tells us that.

Hebrews 4:15(KJV) reads:

Quote

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.

March 20, 2010 at 10:21 am#184068

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 20 2010,18:41)

Terraricca wrote:

Quote

Marty view are not right, it make Christ a man who became for one act of obedience the second in power to God the father. This is wrong, not biblical.

the concept of his believe is do to the misunderstanding of God s will in a whole.

and following men s view.

I am going with Marty on this. I believe that the one act of righteousness is his whole life including his death. Hebrews tells us that.

Hebrews 4:15(KJV) reads:

Quote

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.

is that all of scriptures you have

and this spells out that Christ was a mare man ,and never existed prior to his coming as a man.?? :

March 20, 2010 at 10:43 am#184069

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 20 2010,17:57)

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 20 2010,15:28)

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 20 2010,17:23)

Hi K:

Don't beat around the bush just answer my question. Did Jesus pre-exist his birth into this world as a spirit being with a mind, a will and emotions?

A son of God is someone who obeys the Word of God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Hi Yes He did, a Spirit being with a mind, a will and emotions. As a Spirit with all these things as we also have, spirit not flesh. That is how I see it.

Hi K:

Thanks for telling me how you see it. Following is the way that I understand it.

Quote

5So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

6As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

7Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Love in Christ,
Marty

Hi Marty,

So do you believe He (called The word) pre-existed as a spirit? And that all was created through Him or no?

March 20, 2010 at 11:34 am#184075

kerwin

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 20 2010,17:21)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 20 2010,18:41)

Terraricca wrote:

Quote

Marty view are not right, it make Christ a man who became for one act of obedience the second in power to God the father. This is wrong, not biblical.

the concept of his believe is do to the misunderstanding of God s will in a whole.

and following men s view.

I am going with Marty on this. I believe that the one act of righteousness is his whole life including his death. Hebrews tells us that.

Hebrews 4:15(KJV) reads:

Quote

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.

is that all of scriptures you have

and this spells out that Christ was a mare man ,and never existed prior to his coming as a man.?? :

In this case I was more forcused on Jesus being made King of everything in heaven and on earth for his one act of righteousness.

Scripture explicitly tells us Jesus is the man that mediates between God and mankind, 1 Timothy 2:5. That is the duty of a high priest. I was pointed out one qualification why he has that position.

March 20, 2010 at 12:28 pm#184077