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Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 20 2010,07:49) Hi terraricca, Sorry I have not posted you back yet. I need to gather scriptures I don't readily have in my head, as I did in posting back to CA and TT.
Hopefully I will have time later on this evening. It's a nice day in Oregon and I'm going to take my girls to the park and then the library.
I should have a response for you later tonight though.
Yes, I agree. It was a beautiful day in Oregon.I hope you will someday come to realize the utter hopeless position you claim regarding the origin and transmission of NT Scriptures.
Do you think they fell out of the sky or something?
Jodi
this is the scripture;Jn 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
can you show yours now???
Hi CA,
Would you mind telling me what it is you believe that I have claimed regarding the origin of the NT scriptures?
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2010,16:13) Jodi this is the scripture;Jn 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
can you show yours now???
You must have missed my prior posts where I used John 17:5 to further prove my points.John 17:1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
John 17:16 `Of the world they are not, as I of the world am not; 17 sanctify them in Thy truth, Thy word is truth; 18 as Thou didst send me to the world, I also did send them to the world; 19 and for them do I sanctify myself, that they also themselves may be sanctified in truth. 20 `And not in regard to these alone do I ask, but also in regard to those who shall be believing, through their word, in me; 21 that they all may be one, as Thou Father art in me, and I in Thee; that they also in us may be one, that the world may believe that Thou didst send me. 22 `And I, the glory that thou hast given to me, have given to them, that they may be one as we are one;
Romans 6:7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Acts 2:33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
Acts 13:30 But God raised Him from the dead. 31 He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people. 32 And we declare to you glad tidings—that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.' 34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: 'I will give you the sure mercies of David.' 35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm: 'You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.' 36 “For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 but He whom God raised up saw no corruption. 38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins;[/b]
The GLORY Christ received was that he was IN FACT the person of the PROMISE, the HOLY ONE who’s FLESH did NOT SEE CORRUPTION.
The GLORY that Jesus the MAN received was Eternal Life unto MAN. We are promised this glory as well, and it is our hope.
1 Corinthians 15:38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
This GLORY was in the beginning WITH God existing in God’s WORDS, where he promised eternal life and He promised a coming Messiah.
Titus 1:2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie,promised before time began,
2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to usin Christ Jesus before time began,
1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
1 Peter 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
Hebrews 2:10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,
John 12:23 But Jesus answered them, saying, “The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified.24 Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain. 25 He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
There is an abundance of scripture that tells us EXACTLY what Jesus RECEIVED from God, there should be no question as to what the glory was that Jesus was referring to. He received eternal life in his flesh, and he died to remove the sins of others so to lead them also from mortality to immortality.
The glory that the MAN Jesus received we are DIRECTLY TOLD was a PROMISE that existed before time began. This promise was told throughout t
ime to the prophets. Abraham and David saw the future Christ and it made them rejoice and have a greater faith in God.We are told exactly what Jesus received after he asked God to glorify him. That which Jesus received is EXACTLY what God had promised before time began. Jesus asked the Father to give him that which had been with the Father since the beginning, Eternal Life to human beings.
Jodi
your understanding and explanation is confusing me,you show many scriptures and your conclusion of them, wow;you have lot of imagination.
Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 22 2010,08:32) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2010,07:40) Jodi i am right your comments do not fit the scriptures;To see or hear the word Jesus Christ and then think of him as some immortal creature that existed before heaven and earth was created, and to then think of this creature as temporarily becoming a man, is PURE ANTI CHRIST DOCTRINE
The person who sits at God's right hand is a MAN of incorruptible flesh and bones. Scripture directly tells us that it is a MAN that sits at God's right hand. Jesus Christ received the position of sitting at God's right hand, NOT BECAUSE he went back to being some other creature that had such a position before, but because of WHO he was MADE into by God, the first Perfect Man. This man was with God in the beginning in God's Word as a promise of someone to come. The person made unto us as a Master and Christ, Jesus the Immortal MAN, sits at the Father's right hand.
anyone can see who you represent by your comments .
terrarrica! Jesus did exist as a Spirit Being before the world was. Col. 1:15-17 tells us that. also Rev. 3:14 He is the firstborn of all creation. No flesh and blood can inherit the Kingdom of God. Jesus emptied Himself and became a Man, and then He Himself said that He wants that state He was in, back.
John 17:5 “And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory I had with You before the world was. What glory was that. He was born of God, Spirit Being. Again NO FLESH AND BLOOD WILL EVER INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD…….i DON'T THINK THAT OUR HEAVENLY FATHER CAN LOOK AT FLESH. NOT ONLY THAT NO FLESH CAN LOOK AT GOD JEHOVQAH AND LIVE……
IMO you better think this through…Jesus was not some kind of freak. And Jesus had to become like us, with all of our weakness in order to die for us. He knew were He came from and that is why He did not sin. If He would not be like that He would have sinned. Why? Because ALL HAVE FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. It took someone like Jesus who knew what was at stake not to sin.
Also in John 1:1 The Word was with God and was God. Then in verse 14 He became flesh. That Scripture would not be necessary to say if He was a flesh already. But He was not…. He was born of the Father who was a Spirit being.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene you say, “Jesus did exist as a Spirit Being before the world was. Col. 1:15-17 tells us that.”Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
The person whom we have redemption through his blood is said to be the firstborn over all creation. The above does not say that some spirit creature was the first person God ever created and that person became Christ. The above scripture mentions NOTHING of Jesus being a spirit being but then becoming human.
The MAN Jesus that died on the cross for us is the PERSON of whom God created heaven and earth because of and for.
We are told that before time began God promised Eternal Life to human beings, and God made heaven and earth for these human beings to dwell on.
Scripture sets up for us the understanding of firstborn son. The firstborn son is the son who sits at the father's right hand, and who is given authority over the father's property and wealth. Adam is shown in Luke 3 to be the first human son of God. Adam was made ruler over God's creation, however sin and death he lost that position. Old Testament scripture reveals to us that the father has the right to declare a younger son with the title firstborn if the eldest is not worthy. We see in fact that JESUS CHRIST, not some immortal creature, but the man who shed his blood on the cross, IS given over all creation the position and title of firstborn son.
It is the MAN who remained without sin and was raised from the dead no longer able to see corruption in his flesh, that sits at the Father's Right Hand and holds the position of firstborn son over all of creation.
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
We cannot find within ourselves, within our flesh and blood bodies, a means to make us righteous and receive immortality. The Spirit of God must be worked in us renewing our minds making them not of a natural mind of men but of a spiritual mind of God.
1 Corinthians 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
Matthew 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
How would flesh and blood reveal anything? Flesh and blood represents the man thinking through a natural mind. 1 Corinthians 15:50 has nothing to do with what type of bodies we will have in the resurrection, or rather what type of bodies we cannot have. We were just specifically told what type of bodies we would inherit, incorruptible bodies, and Jesus Christ was RAISED as was promised without his flesh seeing corruption. Jesus we are directly told was raised with flesh and bones. 1 Corinthians 15:50 is telling us what Paul had already explained before in the following-
1 Corinthians 2:10 but to us did God reveal them through His Spirit, for the Spirit all things doth search, even the depths of God, 11 for who of men hath known the things of the man, except the spirit of the man that is in him? so also the things of God no one hath known, except the Spirit of God. 12 And we the spirit of the world did not receive, but the Spirit that is of God, that we may know the th
ings conferred by God on us, 13 which things also we speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Holy Spirit, with spiritual things spiritual things comparing, 14 and the natural man doth not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for to him they are foolishness, and he is not able to know them, because spiritually they are discerned;Romans 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.
The Natural Man, the man of carnal mind, the man who thinks according to flesh and blood, CANNOT INHERIT the Kingdom of God, it is the Spirit that gives life, the flesh profits us nothing. We must be born of the Spirit and be renewed in our minds.
To not be IN the flesh represents that you are not thinking in the flesh, but you are thinking according to the Spirit of God because the Spirit of God is in your flesh causing you to not think with a fleshly mind.
No matter what we will always be created creatures given a body as God desires. But we cannot think like a created creature and inherit eternal life, we must become like minded with God and think with a righteous heart full of God's wisdom and truth.
Ephesians 4:20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Jodi
the devil teaches the same thing,lot of information not relevant to a specific item ,so it is vague ,
and if discovered you tell that the person cannot understand it because he does not as the spirit .very catholic and protestant
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2010,05:14) Jodi your understanding and explanation is confusing me,you show many scriptures and your conclusion of them, wow;you have lot of imagination.
Hmm, interesting.Scripture says the Son of Man sits at God's right hand, I believe that to mean the Son of Man sits at God's right hand.
Now what is it that you believe?
The following are scriptures speaking of Stephen before he was stoned to death,
Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”
Jesus the MAN raised with incorruptible flesh sits at the right hand of God.
Call me the devil if it pleases you terraricca, say, “she must have a demon”, or STONE ME, if it would please you, I will NEVER deny the TRUE IDENTITY of my Savior!!
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 23 2010,06:31) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2010,05:14) Jodi your understanding and explanation is confusing me,you show many scriptures and your conclusion of them, wow;you have lot of imagination.
Hmm, interesting.Scripture says the Son of Man sits at God's right hand, I believe that to mean the Son of Man sits at God's right hand.
Now what is it that you believe?
The following are scriptures speaking of Stephen before he was stoned to death,
Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”
Jesus the MAN raised with incorruptible flesh sits at the right hand of God.
Call me the devil if it pleases you terraricca, say, “she must have a demon”, or STONE ME, if it would please you, I will NEVER deny the TRUE IDENTITY of my Savior!!
Jodi, even so you do deny some of the Scriptures that tell us that Jeus was the firstborn of ALL CREATION. FIRSTBORN, FIRSTBORN, you do know what FIRSTBORN MEANS? Do you ? You have a child,one? well we have 4 and our firstborn is a Son. Then 2 more Son's and our only firstborn Daughter. If Jesus is the firstborn of ALL creation, that means that He was here or came forth from the Father as His firstborn of ALL creation. We are His adopted Son's. Made from the dust of the earth. Jesus was not from the dust of the earth… Even when He became a man, He was conceived from the Spirit of God, a miracle IMO.
You do quote Scripture but not ARev. 3:14 or do you understand Col. 1:15-17.““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““
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IreneQuote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 23 2010,03:37) John 17:1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
Jodi……….They just don't get it Sis. No matter how clear we make it, they just can't get it. God help us all.peace and love to you and yours Jodi……………….gene
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2010,16:13) Jodi this is the scripture;Jn 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
can you show yours now???
Hi T:You will find the answer to John 17:5 in the following scriptures. He is not speaking of pre-existence. This was forseen by God from the beginning. The following verses are from John 17:
Quote 22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 23 2010,05:18) Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 22 2010,08:32) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2010,07:40) Jodi i am right your comments do not fit the scriptures;To see or hear the word Jesus Christ and then think of him as some immortal creature that existed before heaven and earth was created, and to then think of this creature as temporarily becoming a man, is PURE ANTI CHRIST DOCTRINE
The person who sits at God's right hand is a MAN of incorruptible flesh and bones. Scripture directly tells us that it is a MAN that sits at God's right hand. Jesus Christ received the position of sitting at God's right hand, NOT BECAUSE he went back to being some other creature that had such a position before, but because of WHO he was MADE into by God, the first Perfect Man. This man was with God in the beginning in God's Word as a promise of someone to come. The person made unto us as a Master and Christ, Jesus the Immortal MAN, sits at the Father's right hand.
anyone can see who you represent by your comments .
terrarrica! Jesus did exist as a Spirit Being before the world was. Col. 1:15-17 tells us that. also Rev. 3:14 He is the firstborn of all creation. No flesh and blood can inherit the Kingdom of God. Jesus emptied Himself and became a Man, and then He Himself said that He wants that state He was in, back.
John 17:5 “And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory I had with You before the world was. What glory was that. He was born of God, Spirit Being. Again NO FLESH AND BLOOD WILL EVER INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD…….i DON'T THINK THAT OUR HEAVENLY FATHER CAN LOOK AT FLESH. NOT ONLY THAT NO FLESH CAN LOOK AT GOD JEHOVQAH AND LIVE……
IMO you better think this through…Jesus was not some kind of freak. And Jesus had to become like us, with all of our weakness in order to die for us. He knew were He came from and that is why He did not sin. If He would not be like that He would have sinned. Why? Because ALL HAVE FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. It took someone like Jesus who knew what was at stake not to sin.
Also in John 1:1 The Word was with God and was God. Then in verse 14 He became flesh. That Scripture would not be necessary to say if He was a flesh already. But He was not…. He was born of the Father who was a Spirit being.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene you say, “Jesus did exist as a Spirit Being before the world was. Col. 1:15-17 tells us that.”Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
The person whom we have redemption through his blood is said to be the firstborn over all creation. The above does not say that some spirit creature was the first person God ever created and that person became Christ. The above scripture mentions NOTHING of Jesus being a spirit being but then becoming human.
The MAN Jesus that died on the cross for us is the PERSON of whom God created heaven and earth because of and for.
We are told that before time began God promised Eternal Life to human beings, and God made heaven and earth for these human beings to dwell on.
Scripture sets up for us the understanding of firstborn son. The firstborn son is the son who sits at the father's right hand, and who is given authority over the father's property and wealth. Adam is shown in Luke 3 to be the first human son of God. Adam was made ruler over God's creation, however sin and death he lost that position. Old Testament scripture reveals to us that the father has the right to declare a younger son with the title firstborn if the eldest is not worthy. We see in fact that JESUS CHRIST, not some immortal creature, but the man who shed his blood on the cross, IS given over all creation the position and title of firstborn son.
It is the MAN who remained without sin and was raised from the dead no longer able to see corruption in his flesh, that sits at the Father's Right Hand and holds the position of firstborn son over all of creation.
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
We cannot find within ourselves, within our flesh and blood bodies, a means to make us righteous and receive immortality. The Spirit of God must be worked in us renewing our minds making them not of a natural mind of men but of a spiritual mind of God.
1 Corinthians 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
Matthew 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
How would flesh and blood reveal anything? Flesh and blood represents the man thinking through a natural mind. 1 Corinthians 15:50 has nothing to do with what type of bodies we will have in the resurrection, or rather what type of bodies we cannot have. We were just specifically told what type of bodies we would inherit, incorruptible bodies, and Jesus Christ was RAISED as was promised without his flesh seeing corruption. Jesus we are directly told was raised with flesh and bones. 1 Corinthians 15:50 is telling us what Paul had already explained before in the following-
1 Corinthians 2:10 but to us did God reveal them through His Spirit, for the Spirit all things doth search, even the depths of God, 11 for who of men hath known the things of the man, except t
he spirit of the man that is in him? so also the things of God no one hath known, except the Spirit of God. 12 And we the spirit of the world did not receive, but the Spirit that is of God, that we may know the things conferred by God on us, 13 which things also we speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Holy Spirit, with spiritual things spiritual things comparing, 14 and the natural man doth not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for to him they are foolishness, and he is not able to know them, because spiritually they are discerned;Romans 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.
The Natural Man, the man of carnal mind, the man who thinks according to flesh and blood, CANNOT INHERIT the Kingdom of God, it is the Spirit that gives life, the flesh profits us nothing. We must be born of the Spirit and be renewed in our minds.
To not be IN the flesh represents that you are not thinking in the flesh, but you are thinking according to the Spirit of God because the Spirit of God is in your flesh causing you to not think with a fleshly mind.
No matter what we will always be created creatures given a body as God desires. But we cannot think like a created creature and inherit eternal life, we must become like minded with God and think with a righteous heart full of God's wisdom and truth.
Ephesians 4:20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Jodi! What you need to do is google HN on the Preexisting of Jesus. A very good article. You show one Scripture that tells me that God send His Son into the World and also that He had a glory with God before the world was. Yet, you think that is not true? Why? Those Scriptures go with other Scriptures.
John 6:38-40 “For I have come down from Heaven, not to do my will , but the will of Him who send Me.
verse 39 This is the Father who send Me that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
verse 40 And this is the will of Him who send Me, that everyone who sees the the Son and believes in Him shall have everlasting life; and I shall raise Him up at the last day.
Scriopture tells us that He had a glory with the Father before the world was. Unless you believe what it says, you interpeting again. And you calling that Anti-Christ doctrine? Scripture lady, not Anti Scriptures. The person that sits at the right hand of God is our Scior Jeus Christ in all His glory , which some He had before the world was John 17:5.
When are you going to learn this. One day,,,,soon IMOThese Scriptures first of all tels us that He came from Heaven. Nobody can say this, without being in Heaven, can they? And if you say it is a plan only then you are interpreting Scripture.
Then it tells us that Jesus will not lose us, if the Father has given us to Him.John 8:58
Jesus said to them” Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.
PLease don't think this is the Father, because it is Jesus talking about Himself.
John 3:17″For God send His Son into the world not to condemn the world , but that the world through Him might be saved.Again God send His Son into the world. He emptied Himself and became a man.
And the one Scripture you also quote and do not understand in
John 17:5
Besides being the firstborn of all creation and the firstborn of the death. So He may have preeminence. Meaning He was first in all. Firstborn of all creation and firstborn of the death.
Even John 1:1, you don't except, ,makes me really wonder…..
Even Mr. Armstrong believed that. Of course you deny everything He ever said. Not all He said was wrong. Some yes, but not all. And God called us out of the Catholic Church to learn to read the Bible there and for that I am forever thankful for…….For you the Scripture in Galatians fits, because they too started out believing and then turned around. And they are called the foolish Galatians.
And believing that Christ existed before is what? Look in the mirror…Jesus because He died for us, now is deity, meaning He can never die again. That is Hi reward for dying for us….
In the Article that is on HN even said about Proverbs 8:22-30 which I also believe, but that really goes over your head….
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 25 2010,00:51) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 23 2010,05:18) Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 22 2010,08:32) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2010,07:40) Jodi i am right your comments do not fit the scriptures;To see or hear the word Jesus Christ and then think of him as some immortal creature that existed before heaven and earth was created, and to then think of this creature as temporarily becoming a man, is PURE ANTI CHRIST DOCTRINE
The person who sits at God's right hand is a MAN of incorruptible flesh and bones. Scripture directly tells us that it is a MAN that sits at God's right hand. Jesus Christ received the position of sitting at God's right hand, NOT BECAUSE he went back to being some other creature that had such a position before, but because of WHO he was MADE into by God, the first Perfect Man. This man was with God in the beginning in God's Word as a promise of someone to come. The person made unto us as a Master and Christ, Jesus the Immortal MAN, sits at the Father's right hand.
anyone can see who you represent by your comments .
terrarrica! Jesus did exist as a Spirit Being before the world was. Col. 1:15-17 tells us that. also Rev. 3:14 He is the firstborn of all creation. No flesh and blood can inherit the Kingdom of God. Jesus emptied Himself and became a Man, and then He Himself said that He wants that state He was in, back.
John 17:5 “And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory I had with You before the world was. What glory was that. He was born of God, Spirit Being. Again NO FLESH AND BLOOD WILL EVER INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD…….i DON'T THINK THAT OUR HEAVENLY FATHER CAN LOOK AT FLESH. NOT ONLY THAT NO FLESH CAN LOOK AT GOD JEHOVQAH AND LIVE……
IMO you better think this through…Jesus was not some kind of freak. And Jesus had to become like us, with all of our weakness in order to die for us. He knew were He came from and that is why He did not sin. If He would not be like that He would have sinned. Why? Because ALL HAVE FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. It took someone like Jesus who knew what was at stake not to sin.
Also in John 1:1 The Word was with God and was God. Then in verse 14 He became flesh. That Scripture would not be necessary to say if He was a flesh already. But He was not…. He was born of the Father who was a Spirit being.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene you say, “Jesus did exist as a Spirit Being before the world was. Col. 1:15-17 tells us that.”Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
The person whom we have redemption through his blood is said to be the firstborn over all creation. The above does not say that some spirit creature was the first person God ever created and that person became Christ. The above scripture mentions NOTHING of Jesus being a spirit being but then becoming human.
The MAN Jesus that died on the cross for us is the PERSON of whom God created heaven and earth because of and for.
We are told that before time began God promised Eternal Life to human beings, and God made heaven and earth for these human beings to dwell on.
Scripture sets up for us the understanding of firstborn son. The firstborn son is the son who sits at the father's right hand, and who is given authority over the father's property and wealth. Adam is shown in Luke 3 to be the first human son of God. Adam was made ruler over God's creation, however sin and death he lost that position. Old Testament scripture reveals to us that the father has the right to declare a younger son with the title firstborn if the eldest is not worthy. We see in fact that JESUS CHRIST, not some immortal creature, but the man who shed his blood on the cross, IS given over all creation the position and title of firstborn son.
It is the MAN who remained without sin and was raised from the dead no longer able to see corruption in his flesh, that sits at the Father's Right Hand and holds the position of firstborn son over all of creation.
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
We cannot find within ourselves, within our flesh and blood bodies, a means to make us righteous and receive immortality. The Spirit of God must be worked in us renewing our minds making them not of a natural mind of men but of a spiritual mind of God.
1 Corinthians 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
Matthew 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
How would flesh and blood reveal anything? Flesh and blood represents the man thinking through a natural mind. 1 Corinthians 15:50 has nothing to do with what type of bodies we will have in the resurrection, or rather what type of bodies we cannot have. We were just specifically told what type of bodies we would inherit, incorruptible bodies, and Jesus Christ was RAISED as was promised without his flesh seeing corruption. Jesus we are directly told was raised with flesh and bones. 1 Corinthians 15:50 is telling us what Paul had already explained before in the f
ollowing-1 Corinthians 2:10 but to us did God reveal them through His Spirit, for the Spirit all things doth search, even the depths of God, 11 for who of men hath known the things of the man, except the spirit of the man that is in him? so also the things of God no one hath known, except the Spirit of God. 12 And we the spirit of the world did not receive, but the Spirit that is of God, that we may know the things conferred by God on us, 13 which things also we speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Holy Spirit, with spiritual things spiritual things comparing, 14 and the natural man doth not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for to him they are foolishness, and he is not able to know them, because spiritually they are discerned;
Romans 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.
The Natural Man, the man of carnal mind, the man who thinks according to flesh and blood, CANNOT INHERIT the Kingdom of God, it is the Spirit that gives life, the flesh profits us nothing. We must be born of the Spirit and be renewed in our minds.
To not be IN the flesh represents that you are not thinking in the flesh, but you are thinking according to the Spirit of God because the Spirit of God is in your flesh causing you to not think with a fleshly mind.
No matter what we will always be created creatures given a body as God desires. But we cannot think like a created creature and inherit eternal life, we must become like minded with God and think with a righteous heart full of God's wisdom and truth.
Ephesians 4:20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Jodi! What you need to do is google HN on the Preexisting of Jesus. A very good article. You show one Scripture that tells me that God send His Son into the World and also that He had a glory with God before the world was. Yet, you think that is not true? Why? Those Scriptures go with other Scriptures.
John 6:38-40 “For I have come down from Heaven, not to do my will , but the will of Him who send Me.
verse 39 This is the Father who send Me that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
verse 40 And this is the will of Him who send Me, that everyone who sees the the Son and believes in Him shall have everlasting life; and I shall raise Him up at the last day.
Scriopture tells us that He had a glory with the Father before the world was. Unless you believe what it says, you interpeting again. And you calling that Anti-Christ doctrine? Scripture lady, not Anti Scriptures. The person that sits at the right hand of God is our Scior Jeus Christ in all His glory , which some He had before the world was John 17:5.
When are you going to learn this. One day,,,,soon IMOThese Scriptures first of all tels us that He came from Heaven. Nobody can say this, without being in Heaven, can they? And if you say it is a plan only then you are interpreting Scripture.
Then it tells us that Jesus will not lose us, if the Father has given us to Him.John 8:58
Jesus said to them” Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.
PLease don't think this is the Father, because it is Jesus talking about Himself.
John 3:17″For God send His Son into the world not to condemn the world , but that the world through Him might be saved.Again God send His Son into the world. He emptied Himself and became a man.
And the one Scripture you also quote and do not understand in
John 17:5
Besides being the firstborn of all creation and the firstborn of the death. So He may have preeminence. Meaning He was first in all. Firstborn of all creation and firstborn of the death.
Even John 1:1, you don't except, ,makes me really wonder…..
Even Mr. Armstrong believed that. Of course you deny everything He ever said. Not all He said was wrong. Some yes, but not all. And God called us out of the Catholic Church to learn to read the Bible there and for that I am forever thankful for…….For you the Scripture in Galatians fits, because they too started out believing and then turned around. And they are called the foolish Galatians.
And believing that Christ existed before is what? Look in the mirror…Jesus because He died for us, now is deity, meaning He can never die again. That is Hi reward for dying for us….
In the Article that is on HN even said about Proverbs 8:22-30 which I also believe, but that really goes over your head….
Peace and Love Irene
Irene,Have you read my posts?
It would be apparent from what you write to me that clearly you have not.
94
Jn 17:24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.Jn 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
I see that Jesus confirm what he says from Jn 17;5 and in verse 24
GLORY BEFORE CREATION;
GLORY BEFORE WORLD BEGONE;WHAT IS IT YOU DO NOT SEE
Jodi! I did read your post, however like I said before some Scriptures that you quote you don't take by face value and interpret it to your liking. That is not truth. Not my Scriptures that tell me that Jesus came from Heaven. That He came to do the will of God the Father…. , who send Him. You just deny and deny or interpret the way you want it to say…..
John 1:1 The Word was God and was with God and that Word in verse 14 became flesh. He was the Spoken Word of God.
Rev. 19:13 “He was clothed with a rob dipped in blood, and His name is called the Word of God.” Not a plan or intellect, put a Spirit Being that became flesh in John 1:14.
Jodi, ask God for some Wisdom He will give it to you…..
Also even God the Father is calling Jesus God in Hebrew 1:8, just in case you don't believe that He was called God, which is a title.
IreneQuote (terraricca @ Feb. 25 2010,06:13) 94
Jn 17:24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.Jn 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
I see that Jesus confirm what he says from Jn 17;5 and in verse 24
GLORY BEFORE CREATION;
GLORY BEFORE WORLD BEGONE;WHAT IS IT YOU DO NOT SEE
Hi T:God has foreseen this from the beginning, and that is what Jesus is speaking of here. Jesus was foreodained, and was manifest in God's perfect timing.
Perhaps the following scripture will help you to understand:
1 Peter 1:
Quote 18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Feb. 25 2010,09:13) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 25 2010,06:13) 94
Jn 17:24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.Jn 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
I see that Jesus confirm what he says from Jn 17;5 and in verse 24
GLORY BEFORE CREATION;
GLORY BEFORE WORLD BEGONE;WHAT IS IT YOU DO NOT SEE
Hi T:God has foreseen this from the beginning, and that is what Jesus is speaking of here. Jesus was foreodained, and was manifest in God's perfect timing.
Perhaps the following scripture will help you to understand:
1 Peter 1:
Quote 18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty! Christ knew before He created all, that He was to die for His creation , us.Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
That all goes together with 1 Peter 1:18-20
It also goes with all other Scriptures that I have given you. How would you explain those?
Rev. 3:14
Col. 1:15 Firstborn of all creation and then Christ created all, just like it says in Col. 1:16-17
and
John 1:2
John 1:1 is the Word of God which is explained in
Rev. 19:13 He was clothed with a robe dipped with blood, and His name is the Word of God.
I asked Jodi the same question what do you do with all these Scriptures, especially Rev. 3:14 and
Col. 1:15
and even John 1:1 cause verse 2 tells us that He created all. God the Father gave Him all authority to do so…..
Even Genesis says us and our. Who is us and our?
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 25 2010,10:55) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 25 2010,09:13) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 25 2010,06:13) 94
Jn 17:24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.Jn 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
I see that Jesus confirm what he says from Jn 17;5 and in verse 24
GLORY BEFORE CREATION;
GLORY BEFORE WORLD BEGONE;WHAT IS IT YOU DO NOT SEE
Hi T:God has foreseen this from the beginning, and that is what Jesus is speaking of here. Jesus was foreodained, and was manifest in God's perfect timing.
Perhaps the following scripture will help you to understand:
1 Peter 1:
Quote 18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty! Christ knew before He created all, that He was to die for His creation , us.Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
That all goes together with 1 Peter 1:18-20
It also goes with all other Scriptures that I have given you. How would you explain those?
Rev. 3:14
Col. 1:15 Firstborn of all creation and then Christ created all, just like it says in Col. 1:16-17
and
John 1:2
John 1:1 is the Word of God which is explained in
Rev. 19:13 He was clothed with a robe dipped with blood, and His name is the Word of God.
I asked Jodi the same question what do you do with all these Scriptures, especially Rev. 3:14 and
Col. 1:15
and even John 1:1 cause verse 2 tells us that He created all. God the Father gave Him all authority to do so…..
Even Genesis says us and our. Who is us and our?
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Mrs:Genesis 1 states: In the beginning “God” created the heavens and earth. It was God who is the creator.
And it goes on to say: “Let 'us” make man in our image, and the it states in the image of God created He them “male and female” created He them.
The “us” here are the angels who were present when he created man. We find this in Job 38:
NIV
Quote 4 “Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone-7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels [a] shouted for joy?And then in Genesis we find that God breathed the breath of life into Adam's nostrils and he became a living soul or person. He was the “the first Adam”. Like God in that he was a living person.
And Jesus is called the “last Adam”. He like the “first Adam” is a living person, but having obeyed God without sin even unto death, he is like God in that he is a spirit of love, and he is like God in that he is now eternal having been raised from the dead.
Colossians 1:15-20 states:
Quote 15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. I have already stated that he has become like God through obedience to God's Word. He is God's firstborn. The only begotten Son of God and the first born again from the dead.
The scripture states that a he is the firstborn over all of creation meaning that in his exalted position as head of the church “he is God's firstborn over all of creation”.
When he was raised again from the dead he stated in Matthew 28
Quote “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. or Ephesians 1 the Apostle Paul states:
Quote 20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
And so, by the two scriptures that I have posted you should understand that this what is meant by Colossians 1:15. He is God's firstborn over all of creation, but that scripture does not say that Christ created all, but that all things were created by him and for him. God created all things knowing from the beginning that he was going to bring forth a Son through the virgin Mary, and that in him all the promises that were made to Abraham would be fulfilled, and that Jesus was to be his heir.
John 1:1 states:”In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. All things were made by him and without him was nothing made that was made.
God had a plan in the beginning and that was to make man in his own image. He is the last Adam. The culmination of God's plan for this world and for humanity. He is called the Word of God in that he obeyed the Word of God even unto death on the cross and now as head of the church he watches over that Word to perform it.
He wa
s slain from the foundation of the world means that God had forseen that he would bring forth a Son into the world to be the propitation for our sins.No, Mrs. he did not pre-exist his birth into the world, but he was in the heart of the Father. God created all things knowing that in Jesus all of his plan for humanity would be accomplished.
He was foreordained. That is what the Word of God states.
Love in Christ,
MartyMarty………Amen Brother, They just don't get it. Jesus did no preexist His berth on earth except in the (FOREORDAINED) plan and will of GOD, He is the First born into the kingdom of GOD from mankind. Just as Peter stated “For he was Foreordained (BUT) was Manifested in our time”.
peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
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