Preexistence

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 13 2010,03:56)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 12 2010,11:38) Georg, The fact of the matter is God calls people to the truth, others are in blindness and cannot SEE until God calls them as well. Jodi Looking in the mirror again, eh? Blessings WJ

Hi WJ,

People are clearly learning!
You understand the mirror effect quite well now! (Psalm 18:25-27)

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[942767]

Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 13 2010,01:38)

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 12 2010,12:45) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 11 2010,20:49) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 11 2010,10:14) Hi thethinker: Did you skip over what Jodi-Lee said here intentionally to avoid the issue? Quote Abraham it says rejoiced to see the DAY of Christ. Abraham saw Christ and was glad. Did Abraham SEE a pre-existent no name son, and jump for joy? NO, he saw the future day of the MAN Christ, and in seeing that he knew how God would fulfill the promise He made to him, that from his seed all nations would be blessed. This is the way that I understand the scriptures as well.  No, no pre-existent Jesus.  He was fore-ordained. Please explain what is meant by THEY DRANK OF THE SPIRTUAL ROCK THAT FOLLOWED THEM AND THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST? How do you drink of a spiritual rock? Love in Christ, Marty Marty, Jude 5 says that Jesus Christ saved them out of Egypt (ESV). The word “Jesus” is in the earliest Greek texts. And Exodus 23 says that it was Jehovah's Messenger who brought the people to into the place which God prepared. 20 “Behold, I send an Messenger before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in Him. 22 But if you indeed obey His voice and do all that I speak, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries. 23 For My Messenger will go before you and bring you in to the Amorites and the Hittites and the Perizzites and the Canaanites and the Hivites and the Jebusites; and I will cut them off. 24 You shall not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do according to their works; but you shall utterly overthrow them and completely break down their sacred pillars. 25 “So you shall serve the LORD your God, and He will bless your bread and your water. And I will take sickness away from the midst of you. 1. It CLEARLY says that it was God's Messenger who guided them (vs. 20) . 2. It CLEARLY the Messenger shares Jehovah's name (vs. 21) 3. It CLEARLY says that the Messenger is called “The Lord your God” (vs. 25) So you shall serve the LORD your God[/b], and He will bless your bread and your water. And I will take sickness away from the midst of you. God is speaking saying that “He” (the Lord your God, that is, the Messenger) will bless your bread and your water so that “I” (Jehovah) may take away sickness from the midst of you. If this Messenger who guided the people and who shared Jehovah's name was not Jesus, then who was it? thinker Hi Thethinker: You evaded my question.  What does it mean that “they drank of the spiritual rock that followed them and that rock was Christ”? Love in Christ, Marty Maty, One thing is for sure. You can't drink of anything that does not exist whether it be corporeal or spiritual. Or have you abandoned all common sense? Now answer my question. If the Messenger who guided them was not Christ, then who was it (Exodus 23:20-25)? “Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.” Jude 5 ESV btw, You accuse me of ignoring Jodi Lee. But I answered Jodi Lee. I told her that her premise that it was the “plan of God” they drank from was unbelievable. She says also that it was the “plan of God” that came down from heaven. This is intellectual suicide. Rational people don't entertain such nonsense. thinker

Hi thethinker:

You still have not answered my question, and what I am trying to do is get you to exercise common sense.  Of course, the spiritual drink existed.  This is the anointed word of God that they drank.

And it certainly was not Jesus who guided the people in the wilderness.  He did not exist as a sentient person at that time.  The term Christ means the anointed one.  There were many who were anointed by God in the OT, Abraham, Moses, Aaron, Joshua, Elijah, Elisha, just to name some.

God delivered the nation of Israel out of Egypt through Moses, and it was he who guided them through the wilderness, and then Joshua took them into the promised land.  Jude 4-5 is referring to those who God did not enter the promised land because of unbelief.

MAYBE THE FOLLOWING SCRIPTURES WILL HELP YOU TO UNDERSTAND:  Hebrews 3:

7Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

8Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

9When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

10Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

11So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

13But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

14For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

15While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

16For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.

17But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

18And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

19So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Hebrews 4

1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

(THE FOLLOWING SCRIPTURE WILL TELL YOU OF THE SPIRITUAL DRINK THAT THEY DRANK

2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Dancingforyounomore]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 30 2007,09:28)

Hello Nick H,

You said:

“Peter called Christ the Holy One[1P1] and referred to his glory seen on the mountain[2P1].”

Question: Where specifically in 2 Peter 1 did Peter refer to Christ's glory seen on the mountain?

I don't see anything in that chapter to imply what you have stated. (??)

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 12 2010,18:37)

KERWIN in what way was christ a new creation? and if he was a new creation what was the purpose of is new creation?

Paul compares Jesus to Adam.  Adam lived according to the spirit of the world while Jesus lived according to the spirit of righteousness and never sinned even though he tempted just like Adam.  I would conclude that is how Jesus is a new creation.

1 Corinthians 15:20-24(NIV) reads:

Quote

But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

[Elizabeth]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 13 2010,17:08)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 12 2010,18:37) KERWIN in what way was christ a new creation? and if he was a new creation what was the purpose of is new creation? Paul compares Jesus to Adam.  Adam lived according to the spirit of the world while Jesus lived according to the spirit of righteousness and never sinned even though he tempted just like Adam.  I would conclude that is how Jesus is a new creation. 1 Corinthians 15:20-24(NIV) reads: Quote But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

kerwin Jesus also said before Abraham I was….

[kerwin]

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 13 2010,12:30)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 13 2010,17:08) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 12 2010,18:37) KERWIN in what way was christ a new creation? and if he was a new creation what was the purpose of is new creation? Paul compares Jesus to Adam.  Adam lived according to the spirit of the world while Jesus lived according to the spirit of righteousness and never sinned even though he tempted just like Adam.  I would conclude that is how Jesus is a new creation. 1 Corinthians 15:20-24(NIV) reads: Quote But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. kerwin  Jesus also said before Abraham I was….

I am going to still point that some of the Jews of that time period had a confusing way of speaking as they did not say their words straight out but rather in a sort of open code. Jesus seemed to do it quite a lot. Perhaps he used it as a teaching tool but it makes it hard to understand even to his students of the that time.

My question is “how many ways, besides preexistence, is Jesus before Abraham”?

It seems Jesus wanted his students to solve the puzzle on their own feeling confident God would reveal the truth to those he chose.

[Elizabeth]

kerwin If that would be the only Scripture that tells me that Jesus did exist before His Birth on earth, maybe you could be right. But Col. 1:15-17 tells us that He is the firstborn of all creation and also in
Rev. 3:14 …”These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness the Beginning of the creation of God.
Then by Jesus own words in
John 17:5 “And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory I had with You before the world was.”
John 1:1 we know that it became Jesus in verse 14.
This Scripture is interesting in
Rev. 18:13He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is The Word of God.
verse 16 we see that it Jesus…King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
There u=is also Scriptures that say that God send Him to do the will of the His Father.
John 3:16″For God so loved the World, that He gave His only begotten Son…verse 17 :For God send His Son onto the world….
Also Nobody has seen the Father except He who comes from the Father to do the will of Him that send Jesus.
You know there are to many Scriptures that talk about Jesus being as a Spirit being and after the Father had brought Him forth, He gave Jesus all authority to create all.
In Genesis it says us and our, that also shows that Jesus was there….
I also like Proverbs 8:22-30 please read it very carefully. Most say that it is Wisdom being born, which makes no sense at all. God had always Wisdom and did not have to create it first. Also in verse 30 it is a master craftsman, can that be wisdom? IMO no. PLease read this with an open mind. I know it's not easy to change, we had to do so also. It took me some time, but God in His mercy did not leave me in my unbelief, for that I am thankful to Him for. Good luck to you and bless you. I hope that you are going to be different then some thers around here that have made me very sad to say the least. Please explain to me if you don't agree and please don't ignore these Scriptures like some have done and then excuse me of ignoring their Scriptures…
Peace and Love Irene

[Elizabeth]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 13 2010,03:54)

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 12 2010,09:48) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 13 2010,01:26) Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 13 2010,01:00) To all I think, the fact that this debate has been going on for almost two years shows, nobody is really interested in the truth, but rather has fun in keeping this debate going, just to see who can give the best argument; how ridiculous, and immature, I might say. Georg Georg, Make sure you include yourself in the statement “nobody is interested in truth.” thinker thinker   You should be a defence lawyer. Georg George Why because he made a good point! Your statement of course was meant to not include yourself, but in making the statement you show yourself as being an elitist, IMO, which is okay, except to accuse others for holding on to their truth and not being interested in the truth, just like you do “your truth” is circular reasoning isn't it? You have been here a long time and I havn't seen you change your beliefs in any way, have you? Blessings WJ

WJ

I hold to my believes because I can back them up with scriptures, without bending and twisting them into some else. Just because some one holds to their believes does not make them truth unless you can show scriptures to support it.
That has been my argument all along. I have ask several individuals to prove me wrong; if you can't do it with scriptures, I hold to what I believe.

Georg

[kerwin]

Irene,

I realize that we disagree on the point and I see no reason to continuously debate it as I do not believe that resolves anything. I believe the true resolution will come from God for each of us when God knows the time is right. What we need to do is to persist in seeking his truth. It is my hope we both continue to do that.

[terraricca]

hi kerwin

there is no place to my knowledge that says that Christ is a new creation,
as for the believer who accept Christ as there savior and God as there master ,they only become a so called figuratively a new creation,because they have renew themselves into the grace of God
and change the inside of the cup

Christ as existed before he came to fulfill the ransom for the human race;

he was the only one who was able to fulfill it;the scriptures says that all things are made through him
and FOR HIM;this is the main reason why he was the only possibility of fulfilling the position of the Christ

this coming is not only for men but for the angelic being as well,the judgement is on to all creation.
everything will pass in judgement ,and will establish a record that will last forever.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 13 2010,10:46)

Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 13 2010,01:38) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 12 2010,12:45) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 11 2010,20:49) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 11 2010,10:14) Hi thethinker: Did you skip over what Jodi-Lee said here intentionally to avoid the issue? Quote Abraham it says rejoiced to see the DAY of Christ. Abraham saw Christ and was glad. Did Abraham SEE a pre-existent no name son, and jump for joy? NO, he saw the future day of the MAN Christ, and in seeing that he knew how God would fulfill the promise He made to him, that from his seed all nations would be blessed. This is the way that I understand the scriptures as well.  No, no pre-existent Jesus.  He was fore-ordained. Please explain what is meant by THEY DRANK OF THE SPIRTUAL ROCK THAT FOLLOWED THEM AND THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST? How do you drink of a spiritual rock? Love in Christ, Marty Marty, Jude 5 says that Jesus Christ saved them out of Egypt (ESV). The word “Jesus” is in the earliest Greek texts. And Exodus 23 says that it was Jehovah's Messenger who brought the people to into the place which God prepared. 20 “Behold, I send an Messenger before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in Him. 22 But if you indeed obey His voice and do all that I speak, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries. 23 For My Messenger will go before you and bring you in to the Amorites and the Hittites and the Perizzites and the Canaanites and the Hivites and the Jebusites; and I will cut them off. 24 You shall not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do according to their works; but you shall utterly overthrow them and completely break down their sacred pillars. 25 “So you shall serve the LORD your God, and He will bless your bread and your water. And I will take sickness away from the midst of you. 1. It CLEARLY says that it was God's Messenger who guided them (vs. 20) . 2. It CLEARLY the Messenger shares Jehovah's name (vs. 21) 3. It CLEARLY says that the Messenger is called “The Lord your God” (vs. 25) So you shall serve the LORD your God[/b], and He will bless your bread and your water. And I will take sickness away from the midst of you. God is speaking saying that “He” (the Lord your God, that is, the Messenger) will bless your bread and your water so that “I” (Jehovah) may take away sickness from the midst of you. If this Messenger who guided the people and who shared Jehovah's name was not Jesus, then who was it? thinker Hi Thethinker: You evaded my question.  What does it mean that “they drank of the spiritual rock that followed them and that rock was Christ”? Love in Christ, Marty Maty, One thing is for sure. You can't drink of anything that does not exist whether it be corporeal or spiritual. Or have you abandoned all common sense? Now answer my question. If the Messenger who guided them was not Christ, then who was it (Exodus 23:20-25)? “Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.” Jude 5 ESV btw, You accuse me of ignoring Jodi Lee. But I answered Jodi Lee. I told her that her premise that it was the “plan of God” they drank from was unbelievable. She says also that it was the “plan of God” that came down from heaven. This is intellectual suicide. Rational people don't entertain such nonsense. thinker Hi thethinker: You still have not answered my question, and what I am trying to do is get you to exercise common sense.  Of course, the spiritual drink existed.  This is the anointed word of God that they drank. And it certainly was not Jesus who guided the people in the wilderness.  He did not exist as a sentient person at that time.  The term Christ means the anointed one.  There were many who were anointed by God in the OT, Abraham, Moses, Aaron, Joshua, Elijah, Elisha, just to name some. God delivered the nation of Israel out of Egypt through Moses, and it was he who guided them through the wilderness, and then Joshua took them into the promised land.  Jude 4-5 is referring to those who God did not enter the promised land because of unbelief. MAYBE THE FOLLOWING SCRIPTURES WILL HELP YOU TO UNDERSTAND:  Hebrews 3: 7Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. 11So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) 12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; 15While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. 16For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 17But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Hebrews 4 1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. (THE FOLLOWING SCRIPTURE WILL TELL YOU OF THE SPIRITUAL DRINK THAT THEY DRANK 2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty,

In your treatment of Hebrews 3 you ignore Exodus 23:20-25. God said that His “Messenger” would guide the people. God told the people not to provoke HIM. Then in verse 25 God called the Messenger the “Lord your God.”

So the One who said He was provoked in Hebrews 3 was the Messenger who God said was the “Lord your God.”

You ignore Exodus 23 as you do Jude 4-5.

Marty:

Quote

God delivered the nation of Israel out of Egypt through Moses,

Nope! God CLEARLY said that His Messenger delivered the nation of Israel out of Egypt and led them into the land flowing with milk and honey:

THE MESSENGER DELIVERED THEM OUT OF EGYPT: When we cried out to the LORD, He heard our voice and sent the Messenger and brought us up out of Egypt; now here we are in Kadesh, a city on the edge of your border (Numbers 20:16)

THE MESSENGER BROUGHT THEM INTO THE LAND: “Behold, I send My Messenger before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. Exodus 23:20

God said that His Messenger would guide them into the land. Paul said this was the Christ:

…and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that guided them, and that Rock was the Christ 1 Cor. 10:4.

Therefore, the One who was provoked in Hebrews 3 was the Messenger whom God Himself said is the “Lord your God.”

20 “Behold, I send an Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of Him and obey His voice; DO NOT PROVOKE HIM, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in Him. 22 But if you indeed obey His voice and do all that I speak, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries. 23 For My Angel will go before you and bring you in to the Amorites and the Hittites and the Perizzites and the Canaanites and the Hivites and the Jebusites; and I will cut them off. 24 You shall not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do according to their works; but you shall utterly overthrow them and completely break down their sacred pillars.
25 “So you shall serve the LORD your God, and HE will bless your bread and your water. And I will take sickness away from the midst of you.

It was the Messenger, the “Lord your God” who they provoked! Note that God spoke of the Messenger and of the “Lord your God” in the THIRD person (“He”). God spoke of Himself in the FIRST person (“I”).

thinker

[Elizabeth]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 13 2010,23:10)

Irene, I realize that we disagree on the point and I see no reason to continuously debate it as I do not believe that resolves anything.  I believe the true resolution will come from God for each of us when God knows the time is right.  What we need to do is to persist in seeking his truth.  It is my hope we both continue to do that.

kerwin Why is it that you don't want to understand the Scriptures that I have given you? Is it because you don't understand them. IMO when you ignore John 17:5 you ignore what Jesus said!! That to me is a hard thing to do. I simple cannot understand when there are clear Scriptures like that. I am shaking my Head. I have been accused of ignoring Scriptures etc. When it is they that did. I am very disappointed in some Members. O well, there is nothing else to say…..
Good luck one day you too will see, it reminds me of the time when it was explained to us and we did not want to believe it either…..
But we have always searched the Scriptures and we still find some that we did not see before, like Rev. 19:13…..
Peace and Love Irene

[GeneBalthrop]

Irene……….Why can't you just ask yourself what would be the Purpose for GOD to Morpheus a preexisting perfect being and rebirth him and them have him killed again , What do that prove to US, a perfect being lived a perfect life what does that got to do with our identity with him. Show ONE SPECIFIC Scripture that shows Jesus living prier to his berth on earth other then in the plan of GOD. Who was He and what did He DO. GOD said He created the Wold (ALONE) and BY HIMSELF. That means no one was there but GOD alone. GOD and reread what Jodi wrote and the scriptures she posted and think about it Irene.

peace and love to you and Georg……………………….gene

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Gene @ Feb. 14 2010,04:35)

Irene……….Why can't you just ask yourself what would be the Purpose for GOD to Morpheus a preexisting perfect being and rebirth him and them have him killed again , What do that prove to US, a perfect being lived a perfect life what does that got to do with our identity with him. Show ONE SPECIFIC Scripture that shows Jesus living prier to his berth on earth other then in the plan of GOD. Who was He and what did He DO. GOD said He created the Wold (ALONE) and BY HIMSELF. That means no one was there but GOD alone. GOD and reread what Jodi wrote and the scriptures she posted and think about it Irene. peace and love to you and Georg……………………….gene

Irene,

What Gene is asking you to do is to throw away your Bible and to come to truth by the rationalistic method.

Gene has said before that we should not rely on scripture and Nick, WJ and I caught him. Gene is asking you not to rely on scripture but on rationalist arguments.

thinker

[GeneBalthrop]

Thinker ………Please post where i said we can not rely on scripture , and make sure you post it all, not some part you can twist the context of what i was saying. That offer goes to you, Nick, WJ, or anyone else Here.  To think rationalization is not in scripture is pure foolishness. No one tries to rationalize here more then TRINITARIAN AND PREEXISTENCES Do.

[terraricca]

gene

it seems at time we all look a like

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Gene @ Feb. 14 2010,04:55)

Thinker ………Please post where i said we can not rely on scripture , and make sure you post it all, not some part you can twist the context of what i was saying. That offer goes to you, Nick, WJ, or anyone else Here.  To think rationalization is not in scripture is pure foolishness. No one tries to rationalize here more then TRINITARIAN AND PREEXISTENCES Do.

Gene,

I don't remember where to find you said that. Normally I would not bring it up when I can't find it. However, WJ and Nick called you on it too. In the mouths of two or three witnesses it is true.

Forget about telling Irene “why would God do such and such?” Just stick with “Thus saith the Lord.” The Lord saith that Jesus was God in the flesh.

Be a man of faith and dump your Rationalist approach to the scriptures.

thinker

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 12 2010,17:10)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 13 2010,05:45) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Feb. 12 2010,13:23) Irene I have already responded numerous times to your scriptures in FULL detail. You have always completely ignored them. Why should I repeat myself just so you can go and ignore them again? This is probably true because I have responded to many scriptures that Irene has posted as so-called proof against the Trinity but she keeps posting the same as if it is proof or as if she never even read my response! WJ W.J. Show me, because I will never ignore others.  but when I put up a scripture and they ignore it, I do the same…. So don't be to quick to judge me..BTW  look at the post that Jodi made, She just puts other Scriptures up that has nothing to do with this subject…. probably is no prove show me were I did that, and I will apologize.   .Irene

Irene

Click here

This is one post I made to your popular scripture in Ehp 4 as proof against the Trinity and you never responded to it.

I can find other times I have addressed your so-called scriptures that you say prove the Trinity is false if you like.

BTW, I have stood up for you when you were speaking the truth. If you say you love God whom you cannot see then how can you say you do not like me?

Blessings WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 13 2010,06:07)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 13 2010,03:54) Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 12 2010,09:48) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 13 2010,01:26) Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 13 2010,01:00) To all I think, the fact that this debate has been going on for almost two years shows, nobody is really interested in the truth, but rather has fun in keeping this debate going, just to see who can give the best argument; how ridiculous, and immature, I might say. Georg Georg, Make sure you include yourself in the statement “nobody is interested in truth.” thinker thinker   You should be a defence lawyer. Georg George Why because he made a good point! Your statement of course was meant to not include yourself, but in making the statement you show yourself as being an elitist, IMO, which is okay, except to accuse others for holding on to their truth and not being interested in the truth, just like you do “your truth” is circular reasoning isn't it? You have been here a long time and I havn't seen you change your beliefs in any way, have you? Blessings WJ WJ I hold to my believes because I can back them up with scriptures, without bending and twisting them into some else. Just because some one holds to their believes does not make them truth unless you can show scriptures to support it. That has been my argument all along. I have ask several individuals to prove me wrong; if you can't do it with scriptures, I hold to what I believe. Georg

George

You took the words right out of my mouth. I couldn't have spoken it any better.

So your statement that “Nobody” is interested in the truth must also apply to you for there seems to be no difference in you and anybody else here, right?

Blessings WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene @ Feb. 13 2010,12:55)

Thinker ………Please post where i said we can not rely on scripture , and make sure you post it all, not some part you can twist the context of what i was saying. That offer goes to you, Nick, WJ, or anyone else Here.  To think rationalization is not in scripture is pure foolishness. No one tries to rationalize here more then TRINITARIAN AND PREEXISTENCES Do.

Gene

The question has been put to you.

Do you believe the scritpures are corrupted or not?

WJ

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