Preexistence

[Ed J]

Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 27 2009,11:45)

See my reply to ED J immediately above. You guys really need some schooling. thinker

Hi ThinkingMan,

It's a good thing we have you around to teach us (in the dark Guy's) correct carnal thinking. (Romans 8:5-8)

Ed J

[Ed J]

Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 27 2009,11:49)

ED J and Gene, You both abide in darkness. thinker

Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire “the day of the LORD”!
to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
Psalm 18:11 He made darkness his secret place;
his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.

[GeneBalthrop]

Ed J……….While it is darkness to thinkers mind it certainly is not darkness to Us.

peace and love……………gene

[terraricca]

Group: Members
Posts: 872
Joined: Oct. 2009 Posted: Dec. 29 2009,04:39

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Group: Members
Posts: 868
Joined: Oct. 2009 Posted: Dec. 27 2009,18:02

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hi all
i am a fisher man ,so i have a fisherman question, (1)why no man can see God and live,? (2) why was it that at the mountain in the dessert wen God approach the Montaigne it was burning and noisy,? (3)we all agree that God create all things but tell me what did he created first?, (4)we all have learn and most of us trough pictures the vastness of the universe,could you tell me on witch rock God as is coffee,or how big or how small you think God is?
(5)you will tell me he is a spirit ,not physical right,so what is a spirit?do spirit have thrones to sit on,if they do ,they should have something to sit whit like a rear end.?(6)we know that the spirit is also thoughts what also can be translated into will,now what would happen if God would have created us without a body,we be still to his image is it ,yes God is spirit,but we would not be able to do anything beside thinking of a many things to do .is it not so ?

(7)i believe God created The word who became Christ in time what God calls his only begotten son the first of all creation ,the means of the ability to performing what he has make his intention to do,that was to create the universe and us and everything in it.

this is my deepest believe and understanding of the scriptures.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Gene @ Dec. 27 2009,16:14)

Thinker………..I realize this blows you assumptions away, But if it says Christ is the head of the Body, let me ask you something do you see the word Jesus written there? (NO) so what do you see then (CHRISTOS) which means the anointing, and if you have enough sense to understand it , the Anointing of GOD is indeed the Head of the Church of GOD. But being deluded by false teachings of the trinitarians has blinded you eyes to understanding this. IMO

Gene,
Come on man! You say you blow my assumptions away? Nobody believes that Christ is the body not even other anti-trinitarians here. You and ED J are out on a limb on your own on this one. You guys have revealed how deep into error you are concerning the person of Jesus Christ. Paul said that Christ is the “Savior of the body.”

“For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body” Eph. 5:22 .

There it is! Christ is the Savior of the body. So He cannot be the body. He is the Christ. But you ignore this scripture just like you ignore many other scriptures.

Your assertion that Christ is the body is totally bizarre and it reflects how deep into the abyss of darkness and error you have gone.

thinker

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 26 2009,19:41)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 27 2009,08:50) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 27 2009,06:47) hi EDj i have consulted the scriptures in;Luke20;17-Act 4;11-Col 2;1-12,-1cor;11;7-Eph1;22-Eph 4;11-16-Rev19;12 and Prov 8;22-31 and also Prov 8;1-21 who discribe all what Christ stand for and that he repeat to his aposteles in the pages of the gospels books. in my view the God almighty his the Father and he made a Son his first creation,this does not matter if you believe it or not .this is the truth;as a Father God has used his Son to create all things and as a father to his son he has made all things for is Son ,and now through the Son, with all the father support, the Son is saving man and this interaction is what Paul is explaning to the Closians and the Ephisians,if we pay attention to the intire bible this is the message of the spirit of Christ. those are my believes Ed J ————– PR   read all the scriptures who are quoted then get back Hi Terraricca, You are in the wrong thread, this should be in the “Who is Jesus” thread, but I will still respond. Unless The Bible is looked at as a whole ‘religious deceptions’ will continue. 1Cor. 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ(the body); and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God(The Father). Do you not see that the natural progression is NOT used? Modern English would word this verse… 1 Cor.11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every woman is the man, and the head of every man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God; but it is NOT! This is the “very reason” why Col.1:16-17 is misunderstood, opening the door for religious deception. Christ is the body(of believers) and “God The Father” is the head of that body! Col.1:18 And “He”(The Father) is the head of “the body”(Christ), the church: who(Christ) is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he(the Father) might have the preeminence. Eph.4:16 From whom the “whole body”(Christ) fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part(woman and man), maketh increase of the body(Christ) unto the edifying of itself in love. If you “still choose” to believe 'status quo religious propaganda', that is your choice to do so? I will only present to you “Truth”, it takes the “HolySpirit” residing on the inside for truth to be believed; I will NOT argue with you, it is pointless! God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Wow ED J! You really did a hatchet job on Ephesians 4:16. The word “Christ” does not refer to the body in Ephesians 4:16. The word “Christ” clearly refers to Jesus Christ and the word “body” refers to His church. Go to 5:23, “For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.” It clearly says that Christ is the Savior of the body. So “Christ” and “body” are not the same. Your are very confused. thinker

Amen Jack!

And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, “Which is his body“, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.  Eph 1:22, 23

Clearly Jesus is the “Head” of the Church which is his body!

[KangarooJack]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 30 2009,02:28)

Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 26 2009,19:41) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 27 2009,08:50) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 27 2009,06:47) hi EDj i have consulted the scriptures in;Luke20;17-Act 4;11-Col 2;1-12,-1cor;11;7-Eph1;22-Eph 4;11-16-Rev19;12 and Prov 8;22-31 and also Prov 8;1-21 who discribe all what Christ stand for and that he repeat to his aposteles in the pages of the gospels books. in my view the God almighty his the Father and he made a Son his first creation,this does not matter if you believe it or not .this is the truth;as a Father God has used his Son to create all things and as a father to his son he has made all things for is Son ,and now through the Son, with all the father support, the Son is saving man and this interaction is what Paul is explaning to the Closians and the Ephisians,if we pay attention to the intire bible this is the message of the spirit of Christ. those are my believes Ed J ————– PR   read all the scriptures who are quoted then get back Hi Terraricca, You are in the wrong thread, this should be in the “Who is Jesus” thread, but I will still respond. Unless The Bible is looked at as a whole ‘religious deceptions’ will continue. 1Cor. 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ(the body); and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God(The Father). Do you not see that the natural progression is NOT used? Modern English would word this verse… 1 Cor.11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every woman is the man, and the head of every man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God; but it is NOT! This is the “very reason” why Col.1:16-17 is misunderstood, opening the door for religious deception. Christ is the body(of believers) and “God The Father” is the head of that body! Col.1:18 And “He”(The Father) is the head of “the body”(Christ), the church: who(Christ) is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he(the Father) might have the preeminence. Eph.4:16 From whom the “whole body”(Christ) fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part(woman and man), maketh increase of the body(Christ) unto the edifying of itself in love. If you “still choose” to believe 'status quo religious propaganda', that is your choice to do so? I will only present to you “Truth”, it takes the “HolySpirit” residing on the inside for truth to be believed; I will NOT argue with you, it is pointless! God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Wow ED J! You really did a hatchet job on Ephesians 4:16. The word “Christ” does not refer to the body in Ephesians 4:16. The word “Christ” clearly refers to Jesus Christ and the word “body” refers to His church. Go to 5:23, “For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.” It clearly says that Christ is the Savior of the body. So “Christ” and “body” are not the same. Your are very confused. thinker Amen Jack! And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, “Which is his body“, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.  Eph 1:22, 23 Clearly Jesus is the “Head” of the Church which is his body!

Keith,
These guys abide in severe error.

Jack

[GeneBalthrop]

WJ……………Read what you just wrote and have thinker read it also, Christos is the head of the Body which (IS) the Church. GET IT, it is the SPIRIT that fills all and in all, (NOT) the (PERSON) JESUS. The Spirit of GOD (IN) Christ Jesus is what guides those who have the (SAME) Spirit in them. Notice it says “to the fullness of him (GOD) that fills all in all, that is GOD the FATHER not Jesus the man. When are you Trinitarians going to stop sealing the Glory away from the FATHER and what (GOD) is doing through Jesus. Don't you trinitarians ever read where Jesus said He could do nothing (HIMSELF) saying it was GOD who was doing the work, that is what the (CHRISTOS) or Anointing was doing in HIM and is also doing in the (TRUE) Church which is the (BODY) of the CHRISTOS, GET IT, or is that stretching you minds to far and you can't grasp it. There is (ONLY) ONE SAVIOR and that is GOD the FATHER. Cast away IDOLATRY from you, and worship GOD the FATHER as the (ONLY) TRUE GOD. Believe what JESUS said.

gene

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Gene @ Dec. 30 2009,03:07)

WJ……………Read what you just wrote and have thinker read it also,  Christos is the head of the Body which (IS) the Church. GET IT, it is the SPIRIT that fills all and in all, (NOT) the (PERSON) JESUS. The Spirit of GOD (IN) Christ Jesus is what guides those who have the (SAME) Spirit in them. Notice it says “to the fullness of him (GOD) that fills all in all, that is GOD the FATHER not Jesus the man. When are you Trinitarians going to stop sealing the Glory away from the FATHER and  what (GOD) is doing through Jesus. Don't you trinitarians ever read where Jesus said He could do nothing (HIMSELF) saying it was GOD who was doing the work, that is what the (CHRISTOS) or Anointing was doing in HIM and is also doing in the (TRUE) Church which is the (BODY) of the CHRISTOS, GET IT, or is that stretching you minds to far and you can't grasp it. There is (ONLY) ONE SAVIOR and that is GOD the FATHER. Cast away IDOLATRY from you, and worship GOD the FATHER as the (ONLY) TRUE GOD. Believe what JESUS said. gene

Nonsense Gene. Chapter 5 says that Christ gave Himself for His Church which is also called His Wife. The distinction between Christ and the Church is the distinction between the Husband and the Wife. The Husband and the Wife are NOT the same.

You speak sheer nonsense! You and ED J are by yourselves on this one. Educated anti-trinitarians here must be embarrassed by you two.

thinker

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene @ Dec. 29 2009,11:07)

WJ……………Read what you just wrote and have thinker read it also,  Christos is the head of the Body which (IS) the Church. GET IT, it is the SPIRIT that fills all and in all, (NOT) the (PERSON) JESUS. The Spirit of GOD (IN) Christ Jesus is what guides those who have the (SAME) Spirit in them. Notice it says “to the fullness of him (GOD) that fills all in all, that is GOD the FATHER not Jesus the man. When are you Trinitarians going to stop sealing the Glory away from the FATHER and  what (GOD) is doing through Jesus. Don't you trinitarians ever read where Jesus said He could do nothing (HIMSELF) saying it was GOD who was doing the work, that is what the (CHRISTOS) or Anointing was doing in HIM and is also doing in the (TRUE) Church which is the (BODY) of the CHRISTOS, GET IT, or is that stretching you minds to far and you can't grasp it. There is (ONLY) ONE SAVIOR and that is GOD the FATHER. Cast away IDOLATRY from you, and worship GOD the FATHER as the (ONLY) TRUE GOD. Believe what JESUS said. gene

Gene

I have already shown you in the past that in every case in the NT the word “Christ” (Christos) is used it is refering to Jesus.

The word “Christ” does not translate into “Spirit”, the word in the Greek means the Messiah or “anointed one” not “anointing”.

If you read Eph 1:22, 23 in its context and say that Jesus is not the Head of his Body which is the church but instead is the body then it is obvious that you just shut your eyes to the truth!

Funny thing is you have the nerve to say that we are blind!

WJ

[KangarooJack]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 30 2009,03:33)

Quote (Gene @ Dec. 29 2009,11:07) WJ……………Read what you just wrote and have thinker read it also,  Christos is the head of the Body which (IS) the Church. GET IT, it is the SPIRIT that fills all and in all, (NOT) the (PERSON) JESUS. The Spirit of GOD (IN) Christ Jesus is what guides those who have the (SAME) Spirit in them. Notice it says “to the fullness of him (GOD) that fills all in all, that is GOD the FATHER not Jesus the man. When are you Trinitarians going to stop sealing the Glory away from the FATHER and  what (GOD) is doing through Jesus. Don't you trinitarians ever read where Jesus said He could do nothing (HIMSELF) saying it was GOD who was doing the work, that is what the (CHRISTOS) or Anointing was doing in HIM and is also doing in the (TRUE) Church which is the (BODY) of the CHRISTOS, GET IT, or is that stretching you minds to far and you can't grasp it. There is (ONLY) ONE SAVIOR and that is GOD the FATHER. Cast away IDOLATRY from you, and worship GOD the FATHER as the (ONLY) TRUE GOD. Believe what JESUS said. gene Gene I have already shown you in the past that in every case in the NT the word “Christ” (Christos) is used it is refering to Jesus. The word “Christ” does not translate into “Spirit”, the word in the Greek means the Messiah or “anointed one” not “anointing”. If you read Eph 1:22, 23 in its context and say that Jesus is not the Head of his Body which is the church but instead is the body then it is obvious that you just shut your eyes to the truth! Funny thing is you have the nerve to say that we are blind! WJ

WJ,
Paul said that Christ gave Himself for His Church which he also calls His Wife. The Husband and the Wife are not the same. Gene has gone off the deep end.

thinker

[GeneBalthrop]

WJ………Christ does mean the ANOINTED, but what was the ANOINTING was it NOT the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD. Are you and thinkers reading different Bibles then we are, It was the Christos (ANOINTING) or SPIRIT of GOD that was the ROCK guiding the Childern of Israel in the wilderness, not JESUS the MAN, who Has the Anointing of GOD the FATHER (IN) HIM. You deluded trinitarians are constantly trying to rob GOD the FATHERS Glory and transfer it to the SON, Something Jesus (NEVER) DID. He GAVE all GLORY to GOD the FATHER, as he said “I HAVE GLORIFIED (YOU) (not himself) ON THE EARTH> Seems Jesus had a GOD and it was NOT HIM and another point a GOD CAN NOT DIE, But Jesus certainly did die, or do you Trinitarians also deny Jesus truly died despite the fact he even said He died. The teachings of trinitarians are pure confusion and completely false and do great damage to the word of GOD. IMO

gene

[KangarooJack]

Gene said:

Quote

[The] SPIRIT of GOD that was the ROCK guiding the Childern of Israel in the wilderness, not JESUS the MAN,

Gene,
Who said that it was Jesus the man who followed them? It was Jesus BEFORE He became a man that followed them. It doesn't help your case to put words in people's mouths. Jude verse 5 says that it was Jesus who saved them out of Egypt.

5 “Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.” ESV

Again, it was not the man Jesus who followed them. It was Jesus BEFORE He became flesh who followed them.

thinker

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 29 2009,09:15)

Gene said: Quote [The] SPIRIT of GOD that was the ROCK guiding the Childern of Israel in the wilderness, not JESUS the MAN, Gene, Who said that it was Jesus the man who followed them? It was Jesus BEFORE He became a man that followed them. It doesn't help your case to put words in people's mouths. Jude verse 5 says that it was Jesus who saved them out of Egypt. 5 “Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.” ESV Again, it was not the man Jesus who followed them. It was Jesus BEFORE He became flesh who followed them. thinker

Ὑπομνῆσαι δὲ ὑμᾶς βούλομαι, εἰδότας ἅπαξ πάντα ὅτι κύριος λαὸν ἐκ γῆς Αἰγύπτου σώσας τὸ δεύτερον τοὺς μὴ πιστεύσαντας ἀπώλεσεν,

Word is Kurios not “Jesus”.

[Constitutionalist]

Quote

I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

He presents the horrible punishment of those who have abused the grace of G-d to follow their own lusts. Of how G-d speaks judgments on sinners. Let none therefore presume upon past mercies, as if he was now out of danger.

TT put away the Pagan Translations

[Constitutionalist]

Roman Emperor's went by the title ‘Lord’ (kurios), Are the equal to the trinity?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene @ Dec. 29 2009,11:56)

WJ………Christ does mean the ANOINTED, but what was the ANOINTING was it NOT the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD.

No it means the “Anointed” not the “Anointing”.

Strong's G5547 – Christos Christ = “anointed”

1) Christ was the Messiah, the Son of God

2) anointed

Anointed = that which is anointed!

Anointing = that which anoints!

Give me one example of scripture Gene where the word “Christ” is the Holy Spirit besides your assumption that the Rock that followed them was “The Spirit”.

569 times the word “Christos” is found in the NT and in every case is used in refering to Jesus and not once for the Spirit.

But you would choose to believe a lie!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 29 2009,12:24)

Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 29 2009,09:15) Gene said: Quote [The] SPIRIT of GOD that was the ROCK guiding the Childern of Israel in the wilderness, not JESUS the MAN, Gene, Who said that it was Jesus the man who followed them? It was Jesus BEFORE He became a man that followed them. It doesn't help your case to put words in people's mouths. Jude verse 5 says that it was Jesus who saved them out of Egypt. 5 “Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.” ESV Again, it was not the man Jesus who followed them. It was Jesus BEFORE He became flesh who followed them. thinker Ὑπομνῆσαι δὲ ὑμᾶς βούλομαι, εἰδότας ἅπαξ πάντα ὅτι κύριος λαὸν ἐκ γῆς Αἰγύπτου σώσας τὸ δεύτερον τοὺς μὴ πιστεύσαντας ἀπώλεσεν, Word is Kurios not “Jesus”.

The context proves that 'Kurious” here is Jesus!

But you choose to ignore the context to support you false doctrine!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 29 2009,12:44)

Roman Emperor's went by the title ‘Lord’ (kurios), Are the equal to the trinity?

Yes but Jesus is the “Only Master and Lord”!

Jude 4

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 30 2009,04:24)

Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 29 2009,09:15) Gene said: Quote [The] SPIRIT of GOD that was the ROCK guiding the Childern of Israel in the wilderness, not JESUS the MAN, Gene, Who said that it was Jesus the man who followed them? It was Jesus BEFORE He became a man that followed them. It doesn't help your case to put words in people's mouths. Jude verse 5 says that it was Jesus who saved them out of Egypt. 5 “Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.” ESV Again, it was not the man Jesus who followed them. It was Jesus BEFORE He became flesh who followed them. thinker Ὑπομνῆσαι δὲ ὑμᾶς βούλομαι, εἰδότας ἅπαξ πάντα ὅτι κύριος λαὸν ἐκ γῆς Αἰγύπτου σώσας τὸ δεύτερον τοὺς μὴ πιστεύσαντας ἀπώλεσεν, Word is Kurios not “Jesus”.

We've been over this before. The “kurios” is Jesus in verse 4. Assuming your Greek text is the inspired text “kurios” does not does not mystically and magically change meaning in verse 5.  So it is Jesus either way.

Do I have to treat you like a child and keep repeating these facts?  

In the words of the great Constitutionalist: “Original – Oldest same point.” Give it up. You gave me the argument when you said this.

thinker

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