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SORRY TYPO ERROR
SOME do not want Jesus to be a normal human because it sets the standard for perfected humanity very high.Can someone please tell me how to edit on this forum. I do not see an Icon for it.
I wanted to correct a typo but could not find the edit controls.thanks
Quote (martian @ Dec. 07 2009,04:47) Can someone please tell me how to edit on this forum. I do not see an Icon for it.
I wanted to correct a typo but could not find the edit controls.thanks
You have to ask for your editing rights in the Help section.
t8 will see if you can get it.martian……….AMEN< You have stated the truth, these trinitarian and preexistences have no concept of what GOD the FATHER did through an ordinary (PURELY) human being, FROM THE LINAGE OF DAVID FROM THE SEED OF A PURELY HUMAN WOMAN. They are willingly deluded in their minds and have bought into the (LIE) 2 Ths 2, that Jesus is a GOD. They totally fail to see that the whole point of Jesus, was to show mankind what God the FATHER can do with an ordinary human (EXACTLY IN EVERY WAY IDENTICAL) TO US. Therefore they disbelieve they can truly come to the full measure of Christ, they see Him and worship him , as a GOD, NOT AS A BROTHER OF OURS. They have been given over to DELUSIONS, because they do not (TRULY LOVE THE TRUTH). IMO
peace and love to you brother and yours………………………gene
Con………That is a true Statement if i ever hear one.
peace and love to you and your brother…………………………….gene
Quote (banana @ Dec. 07 2009,05:16) Quote (martian @ Dec. 07 2009,04:47) Can someone please tell me how to edit on this forum. I do not see an Icon for it.
I wanted to correct a typo but could not find the edit controls.thanks
You have to ask for your editing rights in the Help section.
t8 will see if you can get it.
Thanks IreneQuote (Gene @ Dec. 07 2009,05:40) martian……….AMEN< You have stated the truth, these trinitarian and preexistences have no concept of what GOD the FATHER did through an ordinary (PURELY) human being, FROM THE LINAGE OF DAVID FROM THE SEED OF A PURELY HUMAN WOMAN. They are willingly deluded in their minds and have bought into the (LIE) 2 Ths 2, that Jesus is a GOD. They totally fail to see that the whole point of Jesus, was to show mankind what God the FATHER can do with an ordinary human (EXACTLY IN EVERY WAY IDENTICAL) TO US. Therefore they disbelieve they can truly come to the full measure of Christ, they see Him and worship him , as a GOD, NOT AS A BROTHER OF OURS. They have been given over to DELUSIONS, because they do not (TRULY LOVE THE TRUTH). IMO peace and love to you brother and yours………………………gene
And you Gene don't want to know the plain Scriptures that shows that Jesus was with the Father before the world was. BY HIS OWN WORDS. DENY, DENY THAT IS ALL YOU DO. And the preexisting has nothing to do with the trinity. Those are two difference Doctrine. One made by men., and one said by Christ Jesus or Lord of Lords, and King of Kings.
Read and LEARN.
John 1:1
verse 14 intellect became flesh, you think that can be?
John 6:38 and verse 41
John 17:5
Col. 1:15-17
Rev, 3:14
ALL THESE SCRIPTURES PROVE WHAT SOME WILL AGREE WITH ME THAT JESUS WAS IN HEAVEN WITH THE FATHER BEFORE HE EMPTIED HIMSELF AND BECAME A HUMAN BEING, TO DIE FOR US.
In Col. 1:18 Shows us that He also was the firstborn of the death. So that in all things He may have preeminence. He was first in all, firstborn of all creation and firstborn of the death. BTW an ordinary man could never have done what Christ did. Think about it, it says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
Remember this Song
God so loved the World, God so loved the World
that He gave His only begotten Son,
that soever believeth, believeth in Him,
shall not perish, shall not perish,
but have everlasting life.
The Question is where did God gave His Son from. He was His Son long before He became a man.
Read Proverbs 8:22-30
Wisdom was not born here, because God already had wisdom in order to create all. That makes as much sense as saying John 1:1 is intellect.
verse 30 explained it the best.
Gene, when are you going to learn of God?
?
You don't have to say anything else to me, just what I said to Martian applies to you now too.
IreneIrene…………Deu 18: 15..> the LORD thy GOD will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, OF THEE, OF THY BRETHREN LIKE UNTO ME;
Act 3:22…> for Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the LORD your GOD raise up unto you (OF) (that means from) Your brethren, (LIKE) ME,
Where does it say He came (FROM) HEAVEN HEAR. Why didn't Moses just say GOD would send His son unto you a Prophet like me. Was he delusional like Preexistences are and just did not know> I think not.
Jesus became the son of GOD at the Jordan river when He recieved the HOLY SPIRIT , and the voice of GOD said “you are my son (THIS DAY) I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU.
Not before that day. Jesus became a son of GOD when he was impregnated with HOLY SPIRIT , the (EXACT) same way we become SON and DAUGHTERS of GOD, NO DIFFERENCE at ALL. SAME GOD SAME SPIRIT SAME ANOINTING, SAME IMPREGNATION OF GOD THE FATHERS SEED, SAME NEW NATURE< absolutely (NO) DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER. IMO
peace and love to you Irene and Georg…………gene
2 John 1:7 …> For (MANY) DECEIVERS are entered into the world, who confess (NOT) that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, this (IS) a (DECEIVER) AND AN ANTICHRIST.
To All…..>Think about how many people think Jesus came as a Spirit being reincarnated in the Flesh. This teaching goes all the way back to John and Paul's DAYS. It has it roots in pure pagan and gnostic ideology. No one can even give (ANY) Sound LOGIC for GOD to KILL a perfect being and then have him killed again, pure foolishness and it would (PROVE) nothing TO MANKIND WHATSOEVER. The doctrine of the Preexistence of Jesus as a Being is as bad as the TRINITY and could even be worse, because it separates Jesus (EXACT) identity with US . It weakens true FAITH in GOD by causing people to think that GOD can not do in them what He did in Christ, because in their minds they have moved Jesus away from their (EXACT) Identity.
peace and love to you all…………….gene
Be careful Gene, Irene might refuse to engage you in debate. That will end civilization in the Western World. LOL
martian……..I know what you mean, I still Love Her anyway and all Here. I really do enjoy you, Kerwin and Con's soundness . You know i was Just thinking i think we all need a basic understanding on (HOW) Salvation works, i have seen a lot of confusion on this , not just here but everywhere on religious sites. I thinking about starting a thread on the subject. You and Con and other could be of great Help. I want to present it with a SOLID UNDERSTANDING . To help us all to get the Basics of our salvation absolutely clear. I tried this out on a dear Jewish Friend of Mine , i have known nearly all my life from childhood, He absolutely does not believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah as most Jew don't, Con hear is really an exception to the Rule i know that. But we were eating together as we often do, and I explained to him about how our nature changes, not through the LAW, but through the IMPREGNATION of HOLY SEED, and explained that we all were products of and Impregnation Process which started from Adam and Eve, and as a result we have recieved our natures from there a carnal nature, in the same way when we recieve the Impregnation of holy spirit we (naturally) take on a (NEW) nature. I showed him how it works the same way, and how our natures are being altered by this HOLY SEED in US. He was quite taken by this and said it really made sound sense. You see when people do not fully understand this they become vulnerable to all kinds of “religious” abuse, Speculations, any way he was quit taken by this, I know it is simple but it had a profound and obvious effect on him. Maybe this is needed Here also to give a clearer understanding of the process of Change and Salvation. Maybe it will help stabilize all of our thinking, What do you think about this?
Peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene
Dear Not3 in1,
Allow me to comment on this thread, specifically on John Knox’s statement that:
“We can have the humanity of Christ without the preexistence and we can have the preexistence without the humanity. There is absolutely no way of having both.”
John Knox was a 3 in1 Trinitarian that caused him to be wrong on all three counts of the above statement.
Jesus indeed had a human beginning when He was born of His human mother Mary. But, He also preexisted His human birth, but not as Jesus, not as the Son of God, not as a second being in a trinity. He existed as the WORD of God and the WORD of God was always with God, and the WORD of God was God, until the WORD of God BECAME the SON of God 2000 years ago.
The WORD of God was not a second God, even though the WORD of God is often personified, for it is living and sharper than any two-edged sword. God is the THINKER (person/being); His WORDS are His THOUGHTS. In the beginning is my word, and my word is with me, and my word is me. That makes ONE person – me. There was but ONE God being, Yahweh Elohim, from the beginning and throughout Old Testament time, until God fathered His (only so) begotten, and firstborn Son whom He named Jesus, in the fullness of time, 2000 years ago.
And, if the Spirit of God dwells in you, then you are also a born human being and a begotten God being, who will be “born again” by a resurrection from the dead, just as our example Jesus was.Quote (logoslogic @ Dec. 07 2009,12:27) The WORD of God was not a second God, even though the WORD of God is often personified, for it is living and sharper than any two-edged sword. God is the THINKER (person/being); His WORDS are His THOUGHTS. In the beginning is my word, and my word is with me, and my word is me. That makes ONE person – me. There was but ONE God being, Yahweh Elohim, from the beginning and throughout Old Testament time, until God fathered His (only so) begotten, and firstborn Son whom He named Jesus, in the fullness of time, 2000 years ago.
And, if the Spirit of God dwells in you, then you are also a born human being and a begotten God being, who will be “born again” by a resurrection from the dead, just as our example Jesus was.
Logoslogic…………this i totally agree with. Jesus the (MAN) Bron by MARY was given (BY) GOD the FATHER every WORD HE Spoke and even told us the words HE spoke were (NOT) His words , but the Words of the FATHER who sent Him to speak those words to us.
He not only told Jesus what to say but HOW to Say them.by the way welcome to the site.
peace and love to you and yours……………gene
The image of the invisible God was created 2000 years ago and no one could see the fullness of the glory of God for the age of the universe before that because God is invisible and the image was not yet created. Worse still, God made all things for him and through him, and then created him three thousand years before he destroys that which he made for him. Let me explain. If he was created 2000 years or so ago, and after the Millenium, God creates a new universe, then the one whom God made all things for only witnessed the last 3000 earth years of the ancient universe.
If that isn't hard to swallow, then you also have to rewrite all those scriptures that are really clear about Jesus having glory with the Father before the world began and being before Abraham, and being from ancient times.
Sorry guys, but surely you can see our doubts in your “Jesus was created 2000 years ago” argument? I don't buy it and what you have given in defense of it seems lame to me.
T8……….GOD (MADE) everything for the express purpose fulfilled by Jesus, that same Purpose GOD Has planed for all mankind. He is creating Sons and Daughters of His, Jesus was the First from Mankind. He did not Kill his preexisting son and berth Him in Mary and then have him die again. There is (NO) sound foundation to establish a Preexistence Doctrine , it would prove absolutely nothing. Please tell us one thing it would prove to mankind? NOTHING. T8 you need to readjust you thinking on this one brother. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………….gene
Quote (Gene @ Dec. 07 2009,15:47) T8……….GOD (MADE) everything for the express purpose fulfilled by Jesus, that same Purpose GOD Has planed for all mankind. He is creating Sons and Daughters of His, Jesus was the First from Mankind. He did not Kill his preexisting son and berth Him in Mary and then have him die again. There is (NO) sound foundation to establish a Preexistence Doctrine , it would prove absolutely nothing. Please tell us one thing it would prove to mankind? NOTHING. T8 you need to readjust you thinking on this one brother. IMO peace and love to you and yours………….gene
And that is your opinion!!!!!!!!!Quote (banana @ Dec. 07 2009,20:00) Quote (Gene @ Dec. 07 2009,15:47) T8……….GOD (MADE) everything for the express purpose fulfilled by Jesus, that same Purpose GOD Has planed for all mankind. He is creating Sons and Daughters of His, Jesus was the First from Mankind. He did not Kill his preexisting son and berth Him in Mary and then have him die again. There is (NO) sound foundation to establish a Preexistence Doctrine , it would prove absolutely nothing. Please tell us one thing it would prove to mankind? NOTHING. T8 you need to readjust you thinking on this one brother. IMO peace and love to you and yours………….gene
And that is your opinion!!!!!!!!!
Irene,
With all due respect, everything spoken on here is opinion. Opinion on the interpretation of scripture. that is why I have advocated that we come to an agreement on how to interpret scripture before we spout off more opinion.
Without a standard for interpretation that we can all agree on it will be just opinion. Yours, mine, Gene, WJ, everyone is just opinion NO MATTER HOW MUCH WE ALL THINK WE ARE RIGHT. Certainly someone has the truth but it will not be accepted by all untill all agree on the process of attaining that truth.Quote (Gene @ Dec. 07 2009,15:47) T8……….GOD (MADE) everything for the express purpose fulfilled by Jesus, that same Purpose GOD Has planed for all mankind. He is creating Sons and Daughters of His, Jesus was the First from Mankind. He did not Kill his preexisting son and berth Him in Mary and then have him die again. There is (NO) sound foundation to establish a Preexistence Doctrine , it would prove absolutely nothing. Please tell us one thing it would prove to mankind? NOTHING. T8 you need to readjust you thinking on this one brother. IMO peace and love to you and yours………….gene
Tell me Gene does God need a reason to do anything? Not in my book. Did you ever consider maybe He wanted some one like Him, only to go into the world to save mankind. How He presided, is His choice and not ours. How do we know why He does anything? We don't. That is up to God, now isn't it? To limit Him is to say to Him why do that? And crazy.
And if you read and study what He said in Proverbs 8 then we get a picture in what He did. But some just want to make Wisdom out of it, which is ridiculous. God always had wisdom and did not need to have it born, crazy. Especially
verse 30 “Then I was beside Him, as a master craftsman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him. t8 does not have to do anything. Again you tell somebody what do to. Its not your business. Your really come across as self righteous. Which does not fit to well with me, Brother.
IreneQuote (logoslogic @ Dec. 07 2009,12:27) Dear Not3 in1,
Allow me to comment on this thread, specifically on John Knox’s statement that:
“We can have the humanity of Christ without the preexistence and we can have the preexistence without the humanity. There is absolutely no way of having both.”
John Knox was a 3 in1 Trinitarian that caused him to be wrong on all three counts of the above statement.
Jesus indeed had a human beginning when He was born of His human mother Mary. But, He also preexisted His human birth, but not as Jesus, not as the Son of God, not as a second being in a trinity. He existed as the WORD of God and the WORD of God was always with God, and the WORD of God was God, until the WORD of God BECAME the SON of God 2000 years ago.
The WORD of God was not a second God, even though the WORD of God is often personified, for it is living and sharper than any two-edged sword. God is the THINKER (person/being); His WORDS are His THOUGHTS. In the beginning is my word, and my word is with me, and my word is me. That makes ONE person – me. There was but ONE God being, Yahweh Elohim, from the beginning and throughout Old Testament time, until God fathered His (only so) begotten, and firstborn Son whom He named Jesus, in the fullness of time, 2000 years ago.
And, if the Spirit of God dwells in you, then you are also a born human being and a begotten God being, who will be “born again” by a resurrection from the dead, just as our example Jesus was.
Welcome
I agree with you too.
All bible dictionaries define Logos as statement speech or idea. as you said His thoughts and formulated ideas were with him and as the Greek says those thoughts were “toward” God. In other words the ideas of God were in respect of or reflecting as in a mirror, God himself.Quote (martian @ Dec. 08 2009,01:35) Quote (banana @ Dec. 07 2009,20:00) Quote (Gene @ Dec. 07 2009,15:47) T8……….GOD (MADE) everything for the express purpose fulfilled by Jesus, that same Purpose GOD Has planed for all mankind. He is creating Sons and Daughters of His, Jesus was the First from Mankind. He did not Kill his preexisting son and berth Him in Mary and then have him die again. There is (NO) sound foundation to establish a Preexistence Doctrine , it would prove absolutely nothing. Please tell us one thing it would prove to mankind? NOTHING. T8 you need to readjust you thinking on this one brother. IMO peace and love to you and yours………….gene
And that is your opinion!!!!!!!!!
Irene,
With all due respect, everything spoken on here is opinion. Opinion on the interpretation of scripture. that is why I have advocated that we come to an agreement on how to interpret scripture before we spout off more opinion.
Without a standard for interpretation that we can all agree on it will be just opinion. Yours, mine, Gene, WJ, everyone is just opinion NO MATTER HOW MUCH WE ALL THINK WE ARE RIGHT. Certainly someone has the truth but it will not be accepted by all untill all agree on the process of attaining that truth.
When I read a Scripture that is a fact. But what someone will make out of that Scripture that becomes an opinion. When I read that God has always existed, that's a fact. If God has created all through Christ, that's a fact. But what someone makes out of it, other then the fact, it becomes an opinion. After all there is right and wrong. If I see that I am in error, I should always just and say that I am wrong. Which by the way I have done. At first when this was said to us, I said your crazy!! John 1:1 does not say that!!! I did not believe Him. It was a J.W. that came to our House and my Husband likes to discuss Scripture so He let them in. But I too was wrong. It takes strength by God to do that. And it takes time to adjust our thinking. Is that my opinion, yes. Not a real fact. Just factual
That's the way I see it. Not IMO.
Irene
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