Preexistence

[bodhitharta]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 01 2009,11:17)

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 30 2009,19:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 01 2009,11:01) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 27 2009,17:41) WJ…………You also say Jesus is God, but Jesus said He could do (NOTHING) of HIMSELF. Interesting How does the Greeks change that, to be an exception of the WORD GOD  and Specially one who created everything that exists.  Your 200 scholars have forced the text to fit your trinitarian and preexistence False teachings. Jesus was simply and (ORDINARY) Human Being Who GOD Perfected as Scripture said He did. One who (Learned) Obedience by the things He suffered. WJ who was he learning to Obey, Surely not himself because according to you He was GOD in the FLESH. The soundness and the Logic falls apart in all kind of ways WJ. IMO peace and love…………….gene GB Does God live in your flesh? Then what makes you think the almighty who created all things cannot also change his form and come in the flesh, oh thats right, the Bible said he did just that? WJ Hi WJ: This is what I understand the scriptures to say: Quote 2Cr 5:18   And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;   2Cr 5:19   To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.   Quote Hbr 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,   Hbr 1:2   Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;   Quote Jhn 14:10   Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.   The scriptures state that it was God dwelling within him.  How does this say that God changed his form? Love in Christ, Marty Marty First of all because the scriptures says the Father dwells in Jesus therefore he cannot be God would be like saying because Jesus dwells in the Father that the Father is not God. Fallacious and a straw. Secondly, John 1:1 and Phil 2:6-8 make it clear that Jesus the Word that was with God and who was God, being in the “form” of God came in the likeness of sinful flesh and was found in fashion as a man and dwelt among us! Before you go off and say he was in the form of God therefore he cannot be God, well is not the Father in the form of God? The Father has form doesn't he? WJ

How many is LORD God?

You keep dodging me because you are afraid to confront the truth you still haven't answered me on the Blasphemy and Trinity thread.

You can play games all you want about whether you should discuss something with someone you call a Muslim but you can not even stand up for your own belief because with that thread blasphemy and trinity it is truly the end of the road.

Now will you believe the truth of God or continue to love a lie?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 30 2009,19:33)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 01 2009,11:17) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 30 2009,19:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 01 2009,11:01) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 27 2009,17:41) WJ…………You also say Jesus is God, but Jesus said He could do (NOTHING) of HIMSELF. Interesting How does the Greeks change that, to be an exception of the WORD GOD  and Specially one who created everything that exists.  Your 200 scholars have forced the text to fit your trinitarian and preexistence False teachings. Jesus was simply and (ORDINARY) Human Being Who GOD Perfected as Scripture said He did. One who (Learned) Obedience by the things He suffered. WJ who was he learning to Obey, Surely not himself because according to you He was GOD in the FLESH. The soundness and the Logic falls apart in all kind of ways WJ. IMO peace and love…………….gene GB Does God live in your flesh? Then what makes you think the almighty who created all things cannot also change his form and come in the flesh, oh thats right, the Bible said he did just that? WJ Hi WJ: This is what I understand the scriptures to say: Quote 2Cr 5:18   And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;   2Cr 5:19   To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.   Quote Hbr 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,   Hbr 1:2   Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;   Quote Jhn 14:10   Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.   The scriptures state that it was God dwelling within him.  How does this say that God changed his form? Love in Christ, Marty Marty First of all because the scriptures says the Father dwells in Jesus therefore he cannot be God would be like saying because Jesus dwells in the Father that the Father is not God. Fallacious and a straw. Secondly, John 1:1 and Phil 2:6-8 make it clear that Jesus the Word that was with God and who was God, being in the “form” of God came in the likeness of sinful flesh and was found in fashion as a man and dwelt among us! Before you go off and say he was in the form of God therefore he cannot be God, well is not the Father in the form of God? The Father has form doesn't he? WJ How many is LORD God? You keep dodging me because you are afraid to confront the truth you still haven't answered me on the Blasphemy and Trinity thread. You can play games all you want about whether you should discuss something with someone you call a Muslim but you can not even stand up for your own belief because with that thread blasphemy and trinity it is truly the end of the road. Now will you believe the truth of God or continue to love a lie?

BD

I believe nothing that you say! I have answered you and refuse to waste my time with someone who believes the scriptures are corrupt!

But I do wish that you will repent and accept the sacrifice that Jesus paid for you and be saved!

WJ

[bodhitharta]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 01 2009,11:36)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 30 2009,19:33) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 01 2009,11:17) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 30 2009,19:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 01 2009,11:01) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 27 2009,17:41) WJ…………You also say Jesus is God, but Jesus said He could do (NOTHING) of HIMSELF. Interesting How does the Greeks change that, to be an exception of the WORD GOD  and Specially one who created everything that exists.  Your 200 scholars have forced the text to fit your trinitarian and preexistence False teachings. Jesus was simply and (ORDINARY) Human Being Who GOD Perfected as Scripture said He did. One who (Learned) Obedience by the things He suffered. WJ who was he learning to Obey, Surely not himself because according to you He was GOD in the FLESH. The soundness and the Logic falls apart in all kind of ways WJ. IMO peace and love…………….gene GB Does God live in your flesh? Then what makes you think the almighty who created all things cannot also change his form and come in the flesh, oh thats right, the Bible said he did just that? WJ Hi WJ: This is what I understand the scriptures to say: Quote 2Cr 5:18   And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;   2Cr 5:19   To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.   Quote Hbr 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,   Hbr 1:2   Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;   Quote Jhn 14:10   Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.   The scriptures state that it was God dwelling within him.  How does this say that God changed his form? Love in Christ, Marty Marty First of all because the scriptures says the Father dwells in Jesus therefore he cannot be God would be like saying because Jesus dwells in the Father that the Father is not God. Fallacious and a straw. Secondly, John 1:1 and Phil 2:6-8 make it clear that Jesus the Word that was with God and who was God, being in the “form” of God came in the likeness of sinful flesh and was found in fashion as a man and dwelt among us! Before you go off and say he was in the form of God therefore he cannot be God, well is not the Father in the form of God? The Father has form doesn't he? WJ How many is LORD God? You keep dodging me because you are afraid to confront the truth you still haven't answered me on the Blasphemy and Trinity thread. You can play games all you want about whether you should discuss something with someone you call a Muslim but you can not even stand up for your own belief because with that thread blasphemy and trinity it is truly the end of the road. Now will you believe the truth of God or continue to love a lie? BD I believe nothing that you say! I have answered you and refuse to waste my time with someone who believes the scriptures are corrupt! But I do wish that you will repent and accept the sacrifice that Jesus paid for you and be saved! WJ

I will convert on the spot if you can answer the post in Blasphemy and the trinity and have it make any sense whatsoever.

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 01 2009,11:17)

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 30 2009,19:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 01 2009,11:01) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 27 2009,17:41) WJ…………You also say Jesus is God, but Jesus said He could do (NOTHING) of HIMSELF. Interesting How does the Greeks change that, to be an exception of the WORD GOD  and Specially one who created everything that exists.  Your 200 scholars have forced the text to fit your trinitarian and preexistence False teachings. Jesus was simply and (ORDINARY) Human Being Who GOD Perfected as Scripture said He did. One who (Learned) Obedience by the things He suffered. WJ who was he learning to Obey, Surely not himself because according to you He was GOD in the FLESH. The soundness and the Logic falls apart in all kind of ways WJ. IMO peace and love…………….gene GB Does God live in your flesh? Then what makes you think the almighty who created all things cannot also change his form and come in the flesh, oh thats right, the Bible said he did just that? WJ Hi WJ: This is what I understand the scriptures to say: Quote 2Cr 5:18   And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;   2Cr 5:19   To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.   Quote Hbr 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,   Hbr 1:2   Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;   Quote Jhn 14:10   Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.   The scriptures state that it was God dwelling within him.  How does this say that God changed his form? Love in Christ, Marty Marty First of all because the scriptures says the Father dwells in Jesus therefore he cannot be God would be like saying because Jesus dwells in the Father that the Father is not God. Fallacious and a straw. Secondly, John 1:1 and Phil 2:6-8 make it clear that Jesus the Word that was with God and who was God, being in the “form” of God came in the likeness of sinful flesh and was found in fashion as a man and dwelt among us! Before you go off and say he was in the form of God therefore he cannot be God, well is not the Father in the form of God? The Father has form doesn't he? WJ

Hi WJ:

The scripture states that there is only “One God” and also, states that Jesus is the express image of God's person.

God made man in His own image and Jesus is the last Adam.

He was in the form of God as God's Christ. He even had the authority to forgive sins, but he did not let this authority go to his head, but he humbled himself and became obedient to God even unto death of the cross.

How did the “Word” become flesh? The scriptures stated the Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary. And so, the prophetic Word of God became flesh.
He was the promised child who was to be His Christ.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Worshipping Jesus]

Marty

That is how you see it. But an honest look at Phil 2:6-8 and John 1:1, 14 and other scriptures does not agree with you IMO!

Jesus forgave sins against God because only God could do that! No other had power to forgive sins against God.

We can only forgive those who sin against us!

Not so with Jesus our Great God and Saviour! Titus 2:13

WJ

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 30 2009,17:05)

Marty That is how you see it. But an honest look at Phil 2:6-8 and John 1:1, 14 and other scriptures does not agree with you IMO! Jesus forgave sins against God because only God could do that! No other had power to forgive sins against God. We can only forgive those who sin against us! Not so with Jesus our Great God and Saviour! Titus 2:13 WJ

Why have the Jews and all others of time since the Old Testament believe in “ONE” 'elohim for over 6000 years, and you believe in three gods?

Why do you only subscribe to the the councils descisision of three gods set forth by the Romans?

And you only find a problem with us.

[Anonymous]

You people are being so blind! ONE lORD GOD! Who became flesh!! Humbled Himself and payed for our sins.And ascended back to heaven to the glory he had in the beginning.Who is the creator of all(and thats all in scripture) Trinity does not mean 3 Gods! Everyone keeps saying God is a title, yes for the LORD. Who is LORD?

katjo

[bodhitharta]

Quote (katjo @ Dec. 01 2009,14:37)

You people are being so blind! ONE lORD GOD! Who became flesh!! Humbled Himself and payed for our sins.And ascended back to heaven to the glory he had in the beginning.Who is the creator of all(and thats all in scripture) Trinity does not mean 3 Gods! Everyone keeps saying God is a title, yes for the LORD. Who is LORD? katjo

I thought God was a Spirit, so you say God is a Spirit and Flesh?

[942767]

Quote (katjo @ Dec. 01 2009,14:37)

You people are being so blind! ONE lORD GOD! Who became flesh!! Humbled Himself and payed for our sins.And ascended back to heaven to the glory he had in the beginning.Who is the creator of all(and thats all in scripture) Trinity does not mean 3 Gods! Everyone keeps saying God is a title, yes for the LORD. Who is LORD? katjo

Hi Katjo:

Could it possibly be you that is misunderstanding the scriptures?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 30 2009,20:59)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 30 2009,17:05) Marty That is how you see it. But an honest look at Phil 2:6-8 and John 1:1, 14 and other scriptures does not agree with you IMO! Jesus forgave sins against God because only God could do that! No other had power to forgive sins against God. We can only forgive those who sin against us! Not so with Jesus our Great God and Saviour! Titus 2:13 WJ Why have the Jews and all others of time since the Old Testament believe in “ONE” 'elohim for over 6000 years, and you believe in three gods? Why do you only subscribe to the the councils descisision of three gods set forth by the Romans? And you only find a problem with us.

Con

Plurality of Unity! The entire universe reveals the Glory of God!

The molecular structure of the Universe is triune!

The Atom is one yet 3, proton, neutron, and electron!

One cannot do without the other, or the Atom would fly apart.

Scientist know nothing of the Mystery of the Atom and what holds it together!

“By Jesus all things consist” and are upheld by the word of HIS power. Col 1:16, 17, Heb 1:3

Just as scientist know nothing of the mystery of the Atom, so does the “carnal man” know nothing of the Plural nature of God!

Great is the Mystery of Godliness, God was manifest in the flesh!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
So you no longer need to find things written but your own inference is good enough?

[Anonymous]

Nick, w.j. post is scriptural. Jesus is called our great God and Savior. And scripture does say God was manifest in the flesh! you who dont believe are denying these scriptures! there is one GOD, who is the LORD ,who became flesh. Mark 12; 29 THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD! (jESUS IS LORD !)You are seeing “a Son” as a son like we have, but that is not so. By the incarnation we do not mean that God was turned into a human or that Jesus ceased to be God while he was a man. The incarnation means that while remaining God, Jesus took upon a new nature – a human nature. The incarnation was the uniting the divine and the human into one being, one person. Jesus Christ was fully God and fully human.

katjo

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (katjo @ Dec. 01 2009,14:37)

You people are being so blind! ONE lORD GOD! Who became flesh!! Humbled Himself and payed for our sins.And ascended back to heaven to the glory he had in the beginning.Who is the creator of all(and thats all in scripture) Trinity does not mean 3 Gods! Everyone keeps saying God is a title, yes for the LORD. Who is LORD? katjo

Katjo………..One question who was Jesus praying to, Himself?

gene

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Gene @ Dec. 02 2009,01:54)

Quote (katjo @ Dec. 01 2009,14:37) You people are being so blind! ONE lORD GOD! Who became flesh!! Humbled Himself and payed for our sins.And ascended back to heaven to the glory he had in the beginning.Who is the creator of all(and thats all in scripture) Trinity does not mean 3 Gods! Everyone keeps saying God is a title, yes for the LORD. Who is LORD? katjo Katjo………..One question who was Jesus praying to, Himself? gene

Gene,
God is a trinity dude! So Jesus did not pray to Himself. Your question is just an old Arian trick.

thinker

[GeneBalthrop]

thinker……..Interesting, Jesus did not think he was a trinity , saying “FOR THOU ARE THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD. But then again you trinitarians have many different way of views and changing Jesus' words right. And even GOD himself said you shall have not other GOD besides Me and said there was NO GOD except HIM. But you trinitarians ignore Jesus and GOD the FATHER to equal three GOD'S .

gene

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Gene @ Dec. 02 2009,03:10)

thinker……..Interesting, Jesus did not think he was a trinity , saying “FOR THOU ARE THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD. But then again you trinitarians have many different way of views and changing Jesus' words right. And even GOD himself said you shall have not other GOD besides Me and said there was NO GOD except HIM. But you trinitarians ignore Jesus and GOD the FATHER  to equal three GOD'S . gene

Who said that Jesus thought Himself a trinity? Just another Arain trick.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Gene @ Dec. 02 2009,03:10)

thinker……..Interesting, Jesus did not think he was a trinity , saying “FOR THOU ARE THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD. But then again you trinitarians have many different way of views and changing Jesus' words right. And even GOD himself said you shall have not other GOD besides Me and said there was NO GOD except HIM. But you trinitarians ignore Jesus and GOD the FATHER  to equal three GOD'S . gene

The FATHER is called likewise, the “true GOD,” in opposition to idols; for when CHRIST says all power was given to him, that he might give eternal life to as many as were given to him, those that were given to him were among the Gentiles as well as the Jews; he here respects them both. The Gentiles worshipped many gods, the Jews worshipped one GOD, but rejected CHRIST as Medi­ator. Now the knowledge of both is necessary to salva­tion. In the first clause he respects the multiplicity of heathen gods, in the other the Jewish contempt of the Mediator. So, then, the expression excludes only the heathen idols. In 1 Thess. 1: 9: “How you turned to God from idols, to serve the living and true God.” God is called the true God in opposition to idols.

http://wesley.nnu.edu/john_we….rt8.htm

Gene,
So you can see that you missed Christ's point. Jesus was not contrasting the Father with Himself. He was contrasting the father with idols. jesus has the power ot give eternal life which implies that He is God.

The time is long past due for you to trash your Arain rubbish.

thinker

[Anonymous]

NO Gene not three Gods one LORD GOD. Who is our great God and Savior. Who became flesh; who is the creator! Jesus is Lord! Who we will spend eternity with.

katjo

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 30 2009,22:22)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 30 2009,20:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 30 2009,17:05) Marty That is how you see it. But an honest look at Phil 2:6-8 and John 1:1, 14 and other scriptures does not agree with you IMO! Jesus forgave sins against God because only God could do that! No other had power to forgive sins against God. We can only forgive those who sin against us! Not so with Jesus our Great God and Saviour! Titus 2:13 WJ Why have the Jews and all others of time since the Old Testament believe in “ONE” 'elohim for over 6000 years, and you believe in three gods? Why do you only subscribe to the the councils descisision of three gods set forth by the Romans? And you only find a problem with us. Con Plurality of Unity! The entire universe reveals the Glory of God! The molecular structure of the Universe is triune! The Atom is one yet 3, proton, neutron, and electron! One cannot do without the other, or the Atom would fly apart. Scientist know nothing of the Mystery of the Atom and what holds it together! “By Jesus all things consist” and are upheld by the word of HIS power. Col 1:16, 17, Heb 1:3 Just as scientist know nothing of the mystery of the Atom, so does the “carnal man” know nothing of the Plural nature of God! Great is the Mystery of Godliness, God was manifest in the flesh! WJ

So Yahweh cannot exist without Yeshua HaMoshiach? Will he fly apart too?

Quote

Just as scientist know nothing of the mystery of the Atom, so does the “carnal man” know nothing of the Plural nature of God!

Maybe it's because he isn't plural. If Yahweh elightens you to know the things you should, then why hasn't cleared up this thing about plurality?

Also the bible in itself discusses and debates just about everything one can think of, why is it the bible is silent on this discussion?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 02 2009,02:28)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 30 2009,22:22) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 30 2009,20:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 30 2009,17:05) Marty That is how you see it. But an honest look at Phil 2:6-8 and John 1:1, 14 and other scriptures does not agree with you IMO! Jesus forgave sins against God because only God could do that! No other had power to forgive sins against God. We can only forgive those who sin against us! Not so with Jesus our Great God and Saviour! Titus 2:13 WJ Why have the Jews and all others of time since the Old Testament believe in “ONE” 'elohim for over 6000 years, and you believe in three gods? Why do you only subscribe to the the councils descisision of three gods set forth by the Romans? And you only find a problem with us. Con Plurality of Unity! The entire universe reveals the Glory of God! The molecular structure of the Universe is triune! The Atom is one yet 3, proton, neutron, and electron! One cannot do without the other, or the Atom would fly apart. Scientist know nothing of the Mystery of the Atom and what holds it together! “By Jesus all things consist” and are upheld by the word of HIS power. Col 1:16, 17, Heb 1:3 Just as scientist know nothing of the mystery of the Atom, so does the “carnal man” know nothing of the Plural nature of God! Great is the Mystery of Godliness, God was manifest in the flesh! WJ So Yahweh cannot exist without Yeshua HaMoshiach? Will he fly apart too? Quote Just as scientist know nothing of the mystery of the Atom, so does the “carnal man” know nothing of the Plural nature of God! Maybe it's because he isn't plural. If Yahweh elightens you to know the things you should, then why hasn't cleared up this thing about plurality? Also the bible in itself discusses and debates just about everything one can think of, why is it the bible is silent on this discussion?

Con

The Scriptures as always are silent to those who do not have ears to hear.

Jesus spoke many things that were hard to be understood, but to the pure in heart they believed his words!

WJ

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