Preexistence

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 06 2007,02:34)

acertainchap,,> the biggest lie ever told people seeking God The Father is that Jesus is God Himself. This idology came about by fallen or apostasised Christanity, it creates the Man of Sin spoken of by the apostle Paul. this whole idology of turnning Jesus a man like you and me into a God Man and saying he is a God who sits in the temple of God  as God, creates the man of sin,and they (trenitarians) are the ones who created this idology, creating another God is idolatry. Jesus himself will destory this LIE at his return, just as it say's in 2 thes,2 , with the breath of his mouth i.e, his words. Jesus being a true God is the BIGGEST LIE EVER TOLD. the blessing of God is on all who can see this. your friend ….Gene.

Decepto-Meter

The Decepto-Meter is turned way up.

GB

You can shout from the housetops all you like that Jesus is not God.

However, Jesus is God and the biggiest lie that satan has created is that he is just a mere man like you and I.

Jesus is the Word/God the Lord from heaven who has come in the flesh.

Whoever denys that the Word/God has come in the flesh is of the spirit of anti-christ.

You see GB you can boldy say that Jesus is not God but you will find yourself in opposition to scriptures that says he is.

[kenrch]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 06 2007,04:15)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 06 2007,02:34) acertainchap,,> the biggest lie ever told people seeking God The Father is that Jesus is God Himself. This idology came about by fallen or apostasised Christanity, it creates the Man of Sin spoken of by the apostle Paul. this whole idology of turnning Jesus a man like you and me into a God Man and saying he is a God who sits in the temple of God  as God, creates the man of sin,and they (trenitarians) are the ones who created this idology, creating another God is idolatry. Jesus himself will destory this LIE at his return, just as it say's in 2 thes,2 , with the breath of his mouth i.e, his words. Jesus being a true God is the BIGGEST LIE EVER TOLD. the blessing of God is on all who can see this. your friend ….Gene. Decepto-Meter The Decepto-Meter is turned way up. GB You can shout from the housetops all you like that Jesus is not God. However, Jesus is God and the biggiest lie that satan has created is that he is just a mere man like you and I. Jesus is the Word/God the Lord from heaven who has come in the flesh. Whoever denys that the Word/God has come in the flesh is of the spirit of anti-christ. You see GB you can boldy say that Jesus is not God but you will find yourself in opposition to scriptures that says he is.

Quote

However, Jesus is God and the biggiest lie that satan has created is that he is just a mere man like you and I.

If the Son of man was not like you and I then His sacrifice is void. Jesus was the SON OF MAN that's what He said.

The biggest lie is that Jesus the Son of Man was supernatural and only He could do the Father's work but that's what the harlet teaches, isn't it. How are we to do the father's work if we are not as Jesus. Sons of men but children of God JUST AS JESUS WAS

IHN&L,

Ken

[GeneBalthrop]

Kenrck..> Amen brother…worshiping jesus has the triantrian brain wash job and does not accept the plain truth, i wonder why. God did say that he would send a delusion in the mind of those who don't love the truth. there is only one thing that can fulfill the 2thes 2 prophecy spoken of by the apostle Paul.

and that is taking the man Jesus and truning his into a GOD as all trenitarians do. this is spritual adultary, creating an image of another God is Idolatry.

and it obviously breaks the First commandment,” THOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GOD BESIDES ME.

I Am glad there are some who can see through these trenitarian liers who twest the scriptures to their own destruction.

bless you brother…..Gene

[Not3in1]

Quote (charity @ July 04 2007,19:53)

Hey Mandy, this is a nice thread sister And its important to be able to see things just how we see them, presant, the waves battering us all over the place don't always help us know where we really sould need to stand, but where they think we should stand I think it’s just important  in everything praise God and don't let our hearts harden with pride. Praising God for you

Thanks, Sis! And praise God for you, too!

[Not3in1]

Quote (david @ July 05 2007,11:44)

Quote I appreciate your opinion, David. But that is what we have, isn't it?  Our opinions. Not really. This is what I have: MICAH 5:2 ““And you, O Beth́le·hem Eph́ra·thah, the one too little to get to be among the thousands of Judah, from you there will come out to me the one who is to become ruler in Israel, whose origin is from early times, from the days of time indefinite.” PHILIPPIANS 2:5-8 “Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men. More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake.” 2 CORINTHIANS 8:9 “For YOU know the undeserved kindness of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich he became poor for YOUR sakes, that YOU might become rich through his poverty.” HEBREWS 2:9 “but we behold Jesus, who has been made a little lower than angels, crowned with glory and honor for having suffered death, that he by God’s undeserved kindness might taste death for every [man].” HEBREWS 10:5 “Hence when he comes into the world he says: “‘Sacrifice and offering you did not want, but you prepared a body for me.” JOHN 17:5 “So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.” JOHN 1:14,15 “So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth.  (John bore witness about him, yes, he actually cried out—this was the one who said [it]—saying: “The one coming behind me has advanced in front of me, because he existed before me.”)”” (He “became flesh” indicating strongly that he wasn’t always.) JOHN 1:30 “This is the one about whom I said, Behind me there comes a man who has advanced in front of me, because he existed before me.” JOHN 3:13 “Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.” JOHN 6:38 “because I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me.” JOHN 6:51 “I am the living bread that came down from heaven; if anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and, for a fact, the bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.”” JOHN 6:62 “What, therefore, if YOU should behold the Son of man ascending to where he was before?” JOHN 8:23 “So he went on to say to them: “YOU are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. YOU are from this world; I am not from this world.” JOHN 8:42 “Jesus said to them: “If God were YOUR Father, YOU would love me, for from God I came forth and am here. Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that One sent me forth.” JOHN 8:58 “Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”” REVELATION 3:14 ““And to the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·céa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God,” COLLOSIANS 1:15-17, RS: “He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation . . . All things were created through him and for him. He is before all things.” HEBREWS 1:2 “has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things.” GENESIS 1:1,26 “In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth. . . .And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, (Who was he talking to?) JOHN 1:1-2 “In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. This one was in [the] beginning with God.” JOHN 1:3 “All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence” JOHN 1:10 “He was in the world, and the world came into existence through him, but the world did not know him.” LUKE 3:21-22 “Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus also was baptized and, as he was praying, the heaven was opened up and the holy spirit in bodily shape like a dove came down upon him, and a voice came out of heaven: “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.”” PROVERBS 8:22-31 ““Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water. Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men.” And now, what do you have? You say we both have opinions.  I don't see it that way.  (The only thing in here that could even be taken any other way is Proverbs.)  I will wait for you to tell me what you have, other than an opinion. Quote Answer:  Your opinion versus my opinion. One man's truth is another man's opinion – go figure. And yet, only one of us can be right. Jesus can not both have pre-existed and not pre-existed.  It is one or the other. Therefore, one of us is using opinion.  The other is representing the truth. But when I look at it from every angle, there is only one of us who is using any scriptures. I would really love to go through all these scriptures one by one. MICAH 5:2 ““And you, O Beth́le·hem Eph́ra·thah, the one too little to get to be among the thousands of Judah, from you there will come out to me the one who is to become ruler in Israel, whose origin is from early times, from the days of time indefinite.” Your thoughts?

Hi David,

Thank you for your long lists of scripture! I agree with them all, don't you?

We can go through each scripture, yes; but what will we hav
e at the end of reviewing them? Truth? Your truth? My truth? Opinions as to what these scriptures are saying? You see where I am going with this.

Pride tells us that we have the only truth. Is their one truth? Then will only the Baptists be saved? Huh? Will only the JW's be saved? I doubt it very seriously, but again, this is my opinion.

There is only one name under heaven by which we are saved, and that is Jesus Christ of Nazareth. He came from God and died for your sin and my sin. God raised him from the dead. We will follow. We will live in Paradise if we choose to acknowledge Jesus as our Lord and Savior.

Upon this do we agree? Is there any need, then, to puff up with pride and tell the other that they should believe our interpretations of the Scriptures?

[Not3in1]

Quote (david @ July 05 2007,11:44)

Your thoughts?

You mean, you want my opinion?

Sure. I'd love to give you my thoughts and opinions on what you have shared, including scripture – just don't condem me for sharing thoughts instead of quoting long lists of scriptures. Having heaps of scriptures in your posts does not insure that you have truth.

Please let me know specifically which scriptures you would like my thoughts on. I do well with a couple scriptures at a time – not huge lists. When I'm on HeavenNet, I like to spend time reading as much as I post…….so I get overwhelmed with “answering” huge lists of scripture and questions.

Thanks, David. I do appreciate you and your zeal for Jehovah God.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 06 2007,04:15)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 06 2007,02:34) acertainchap,,> the biggest lie ever told people seeking God The Father is that Jesus is God Himself. This idology came about by fallen or apostasised Christanity, it creates the Man of Sin spoken of by the apostle Paul. this whole idology of turnning Jesus a man like you and me into a God Man and saying he is a God who sits in the temple of God  as God, creates the man of sin,and they (trenitarians) are the ones who created this idology, creating another God is idolatry. Jesus himself will destory this LIE at his return, just as it say's in 2 thes,2 , with the breath of his mouth i.e, his words. Jesus being a true God is the BIGGEST LIE EVER TOLD. the blessing of God is on all who can see this. your friend ….Gene. Decepto-Meter The Decepto-Meter is turned way up. GB You can shout from the housetops all you like that Jesus is not God. However, Jesus is God and the biggiest lie that satan has created is that he is just a mere man like you and I. Jesus is the Word/God the Lord from heaven who has come in the flesh. Whoever denys that the Word/God has come in the flesh is of the spirit of anti-christ. You see GB you can boldy say that Jesus is not God but you will find yourself in opposition to scriptures that says he is.

worshiping jesus again another question you won't answer .

why did Jesus say he was (SON OF MAN) and why did he say the (SON OF MAN) could do (NOTHING) of himself sounds like a strange statement if you as me or anyone else as far as that goes. if he was the Almighty God you are espousing.

lose some ego and admit the truth, like some of your cotemparies did as .

Millard Erickson, a highly respected and professor of theology, also admits this (trinitarian) limitation. He refers in his book, God in three person, to another scholar's admission of (ignorance) and his own on page 258: saying Steven Davis has examined the major contemporary explanations (of the trinity) and having them noy yo accomplished what they claim to, has been HONEST in acknowledging that he is dealing with a (MYSTERY) in so doing he has perhaps been more candid than many of us (trinitarians), when pressed May have to admit that we really do not know in what way God is one and in what different way he is three.

this is from one of your own.

they admit its a mystery, and doesn't it for the mystry of ineqiuty all ready works inthe childern of disobedience.

stop decieving yourself and others…..Gene

[Not3in1]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 06 2007,05:23)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 06 2007,04:15) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 06 2007,02:34) acertainchap,,> the biggest lie ever told people seeking God The Father is that Jesus is God Himself. This idology came about by fallen or apostasised Christanity, it creates the Man of Sin spoken of by the apostle Paul. this whole idology of turnning Jesus a man like you and me into a God Man and saying he is a God who sits in the temple of God  as God, creates the man of sin,and they (trenitarians) are the ones who created this idology, creating another God is idolatry. Jesus himself will destory this LIE at his return, just as it say's in 2 thes,2 , with the breath of his mouth i.e, his words. Jesus being a true God is the BIGGEST LIE EVER TOLD. the blessing of God is on all who can see this. your friend ….Gene. Decepto-Meter The Decepto-Meter is turned way up. GB You can shout from the housetops all you like that Jesus is not God. However, Jesus is God and the biggiest lie that satan has created is that he is just a mere man like you and I. Jesus is the Word/God the Lord from heaven who has come in the flesh. Whoever denys that the Word/God has come in the flesh is of the spirit of anti-christ. You see GB you can boldy say that Jesus is not God but you will find yourself in opposition to scriptures that says he is. worshiping jesus  again another question you won't answer . why did Jesus say he was (SON OF MAN) and why did he say the (SON OF MAN) could do (NOTHING) of himself sounds like a strange statement if you as me or anyone else as far as that goes. if he was the Almighty God you are espousing. lose some ego and admit the truth, like some of your cotemparies did as . Millard Erickson, a highly respected and professor of theology, also admits this (trinitarian) limitation. He refers in his book, God in three person, to another scholar's admission of (ignorance) and his own on page 258: saying Steven Davis has examined the major contemporary explanations (of the trinity) and having them noy yo accomplished what they claim to, has been HONEST in acknowledging that he is dealing with a (MYSTERY) in so doing he has perhaps been more candid than many of us (trinitarians), when pressed May have to admit that we really do not know in what way God is one and in what different way he is three. this is from one of your own. they admit its a mystery, and doesn't it for the mystry of ineqiuty all ready works inthe childern of disobedience. stop decieving yourself and others…..Gene

Hi Gene,

Most Trinitarians will admit that the Trinity is a “mystery.” In fact, all of the authors that I enjoy (Swindoll, Lewis, McDowell, Morey, Lutzer and others) have said thus about the Trinity.

God being a “mystery” does not deter them in their pursuit of this teaching. In fact, it makes the teaching even more endearing and reveared. This “mystery” is to be feared and never questioned.

Why believe a “mystery” when God wants us to KNOW HIM? Is the question I asked before I left the church. These are a few of the answers I received:
1. Greater minds than ours have contemplated who and what God is – we are to base our belief on their inspired conclusions (referring to the creeds).
2. God is infinite and we are finite – how can one understand the other?
3. The church says this is true and you are to beleive it without question.
4. Swindoll says this, “If you can understand it then it's not God!” And the list could go on and on.

The truth is, God is awesome and who knows all his ways or his mind? No one. But can we know him? Yes! Does he need to remain a “mystery”? Certainly not! It is a pre-req for us to KNOW HIM according to Jesus' own words.

John 17:3

This is eternal life; TO KNOW THE ONE TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent.

Can you imagine having a relationship with your spouse if they were a “mystery”? How intimate do you think you would be with such a person? There are some basic things that we must know about those we love and trust. For me, these basics are who and what they are.

[TimothyVI]

Quote (Not3in1 @ July 06 2007,05:38)

Can you imagine having a relationship with your spouse if they were a “mystery”?

Hi not3in1,

All humans of the male gender have a relationship with a spouse who is a mystery.

Tim

[Not3in1]

Quote (TimothyVI @ July 06 2007,05:44)

Quote (Not3in1 @ July 06 2007,05:38) Can you imagine having a relationship with your spouse if they were a “mystery”?   Hi not3in1, All humans of the male gender have a relationship with a spouse who is a mystery. Tim

Ah, Tim, you are a wise man – yes!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (kenrch @ July 06 2007,04:31)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 06 2007,04:15) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 06 2007,02:34) acertainchap,,> the biggest lie ever told people seeking God The Father is that Jesus is God Himself. This idology came about by fallen or apostasised Christanity, it creates the Man of Sin spoken of by the apostle Paul. this whole idology of turnning Jesus a man like you and me into a God Man and saying he is a God who sits in the temple of God  as God, creates the man of sin,and they (trenitarians) are the ones who created this idology, creating another God is idolatry. Jesus himself will destory this LIE at his return, just as it say's in 2 thes,2 , with the breath of his mouth i.e, his words. Jesus being a true God is the BIGGEST LIE EVER TOLD. the blessing of God is on all who can see this. your friend ….Gene. Decepto-Meter The Decepto-Meter is turned way up. GB You can shout from the housetops all you like that Jesus is not God. However, Jesus is God and the biggiest lie that satan has created is that he is just a mere man like you and I. Jesus is the Word/God the Lord from heaven who has come in the flesh. Whoever denys that the Word/God has come in the flesh is of the spirit of anti-christ. You see GB you can boldy say that Jesus is not God but you will find yourself in opposition to scriptures that says he is. Quote However, Jesus is God and the biggiest lie that satan has created is that he is just a mere man like you and I. If the Son of man was not like you and I then His sacrifice is void.  Jesus was the SON OF MAN that's what He said. The biggest lie is that Jesus the Son of Man was supernatural and only He could do the Father's work but that's what the harlet teaches, isn't it.  How are we to do the father's work if we are not as Jesus.  Sons of men but children of God JUST AS JESUS WAS IHN&L, Ken

K

That is amazing coming from you!

For I have heard you with your own lips say “Jesus is God”

How many gods do you have K.

For if Jesus is not the “True God”, then you have Polytheism.

Do you call a mere man your “Lord and master”?

Did not Jesus say…

Matt 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.

Remember the Hebrew Jews didnt have the NT scriptures we have today.

So for them to hear Jesus say things like “

I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, or “If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me” “my Father and I are One” was shocking to a monotheistic Jew.

For they knew the Hebrew scriptures that clearly state that “YHWH Only” was their Saviour.

Truly only YHWH could be our Saviour.

No mere man could save us. Adam was proof of that.

Jesus is the second Adam the Lord from heaven, the Word/God who took on the likeness of sinfull flesh.

The Apostle John knew who this Jesus was when he penned John 1:1 and John 20:28. These are not mistakes, neither are they ambiguous.

John believed Jesus was YHWH according to (Isa 6: and John 12:37-43) or (Zech 12:10 and John 19:37).

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….11;st=0

Truly…

Jn 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=1375

Why is it that the Henotheist and Arians and the Unitarians simply make claims that the Trinity is not true without tackling the clear evidence shown that it is true?

Just more of the same.

Jesus is not God! He is just a man!

Sad!

[Not3in1]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 06 2007,05:50)

Why is it that the Henotheist and Arians and the Unitarians simply make claims that the Trinity is not true without tackling the clear evidence shown that it is true?

Answer: Because we don't believe the Trinity has “clear evidence….that it is true.”

You can quote a gazillion scriptures and say it's a “Knock Out” and that the scriptures that you quote (tied to your interpretation of those same scriptures) are “Unrefutted” but that would just be your ideas.

Others have shared their views on “clear” scriptures that you have brought to prove the Trinity, or to prove that Jesus is God…these opinions/thoughts/personal interpretations all have merit. What say you? That they don't have merit and your interpretation is the only one? I don't know….

Did you enjoy the 4th? We had a ton of people here. Our neighborhood goes all-out for the holiday. One neighbor spent 3K on fireworks! Can you believe that craziness! Good grief. We enjoyed watching his money go up in smoke

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 06 2007,05:23)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 06 2007,04:15) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 06 2007,02:34) acertainchap,,> the biggest lie ever told people seeking God The Father is that Jesus is God Himself. This idology came about by fallen or apostasised Christanity, it creates the Man of Sin spoken of by the apostle Paul. this whole idology of turnning Jesus a man like you and me into a God Man and saying he is a God who sits in the temple of God  as God, creates the man of sin,and they (trenitarians) are the ones who created this idology, creating another God is idolatry. Jesus himself will destory this LIE at his return, just as it say's in 2 thes,2 , with the breath of his mouth i.e, his words. Jesus being a true God is the BIGGEST LIE EVER TOLD. the blessing of God is on all who can see this. your friend ….Gene. Decepto-Meter The Decepto-Meter is turned way up. GB You can shout from the housetops all you like that Jesus is not God. However, Jesus is God and the biggiest lie that satan has created is that he is just a mere man like you and I. Jesus is the Word/God the Lord from heaven who has come in the flesh. Whoever denys that the Word/God has come in the flesh is of the spirit of anti-christ. You see GB you can boldy say that Jesus is not God but you will find yourself in opposition to scriptures that says he is. worshiping jesus  again another question you won't answer . why did Jesus say he was (SON OF MAN) and why did he say the (SON OF MAN) could do (NOTHING) of himself sounds like a strange statement if you as me or anyone else as far as that goes. if he was the Almighty God you are espousing. lose some ego and admit the truth, like some of your cotemparies did as . Millard Erickson, a highly respected and professor of theology, also admits this (trinitarian) limitation. He refers in his book, God in three person, to another scholar's admission of (ignorance) and his own on page 258: saying Steven Davis has examined the major contemporary explanations (of the trinity) and having them noy yo accomplished what they claim to, has been HONEST in acknowledging that he is dealing with a (MYSTERY) in so doing he has perhaps been more candid than many of us (trinitarians), when pressed May have to admit that we really do not know in what way God is one and in what different way he is three. this is from one of your own. they admit its a mystery, and doesn't it for the mystry of ineqiuty all ready works inthe childern of disobedience. stop decieving yourself and others…..Gene

GB

What does it mean “The Son of Man” and “The Son of God”?

“Son of Man” = Man.

“Son of God” = Man.

HMMM. Do they mean the same?

You say…

Quote

why did Jesus say he was (SON OF MAN) and why did he say the (SON OF MAN) could do (NOTHING) of himself sounds like a strange statement if you as me or anyone else as far as that goes. if he was the Almighty God you are espousing. lose some ego and admit the truth, like some of your cotemparies did as .

What is your interpretation of “could do nothing of himself”?

Does this mean to you that Jesus had no power of his own?

Does this mean to you that Jesus was just an empty vessel that God worked through?

I think you miss interpret Jesus words. He didnt mean he couldnt “do nothing of himself” like you say. You pull it out of context…

Look…

Jn 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Wow, Imagine that. Whatever he sees the Father do he does the same. What “mere man” could make the claim that whatever he sees God do he does?

Jesus is saying he comes to do the Fathers will and when he says he cant do anything on his own, he is saying he cant go against his Fathers will and commandments, but he only does what he sees the Father doing?

So you think the “Son of God” had no power?

You think he was powerless because he says he came to do the Fathers will?

The one who calmed the storms and seas and walked on water and healed all manner of sickness Etc, Etc, Etc.

So was he a puppet on a string to you that had no life or power of his own? Was he just an empty vessel that the Father worked through and he did nothing? Powerless?

What does these scriptures mean to you…
Heb 10:
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Do you notice the “I”, Jesus chose to leave his Glory he shared with the Father to become our sacrifice, this was the mutual love shared with the Father and the Word, the Father sent and the Word came. Is that powereless. He made the choice.

Jn 10:
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. “ I have power to lay it down”, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Jesus is saying here it was in his power to die or to live.

What mere man could make that claim? What mere man was given that commandment?

Jn 5:
17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father worketh” hitherto, and I work.
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. (Is this Powerless?)
[20] For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

Do you see the power Jesus had? The Father shows Christ all things and he has the power to carry out what he sees the Father do. Even to lay down his life and to take it up again. Jesus does nothing without the Father true, but the Father does nothin
g without Jesus, including the Creation of all things.

Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had **by himself** purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

That’s Power!

You tell me to lose some ego and accept the truth, please show me some “Truth” rather than just making empty statements like “Trinity is not true”.

Show me why I should believe you instead of the scriptures!

[Not3in1]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 06 2007,06:23)

What does it mean “The Son of Man” and “The Son of God”? “Son of Man” = Man. “Son of God” = Man. HMMM. Do they mean the same?

Butting in here……hope you don't mind?

Do they mean the same thing? In my opinion, no, they do not mean the same thing.

God + Man = Divine Man

Using the above equation the following would be true:

Son of Man = Divine Man
Son of God = Divine Man

*We can also partake of the divine nature*
*We will be adopted into this biological family*
*We follow Jesus who is God's true Son*

OK, off to enjoy the day! It's gorgeous out there…..

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ July 06 2007,05:38)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 06 2007,05:23) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 06 2007,04:15) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 06 2007,02:34) acertainchap,,> the biggest lie ever told people seeking God The Father is that Jesus is God Himself. This idology came about by fallen or apostasised Christanity, it creates the Man of Sin spoken of by the apostle Paul. this whole idology of turnning Jesus a man like you and me into a God Man and saying he is a God who sits in the temple of God  as God, creates the man of sin,and they (trenitarians) are the ones who created this idology, creating another God is idolatry. Jesus himself will destory this LIE at his return, just as it say's in 2 thes,2 , with the breath of his mouth i.e, his words. Jesus being a true God is the BIGGEST LIE EVER TOLD. the blessing of God is on all who can see this. your friend ….Gene. Decepto-Meter The Decepto-Meter is turned way up. GB You can shout from the housetops all you like that Jesus is not God. However, Jesus is God and the biggiest lie that satan has created is that he is just a mere man like you and I. Jesus is the Word/God the Lord from heaven who has come in the flesh. Whoever denys that the Word/God has come in the flesh is of the spirit of anti-christ. You see GB you can boldy say that Jesus is not God but you will find yourself in opposition to scriptures that says he is. worshiping jesus  again another question you won't answer . why did Jesus say he was (SON OF MAN) and why did he say the (SON OF MAN) could do (NOTHING) of himself sounds like a strange statement if you as me or anyone else as far as that goes. if he was the Almighty God you are espousing. lose some ego and admit the truth, like some of your cotemparies did as . Millard Erickson, a highly respected and professor of theology, also admits this (trinitarian) limitation. He refers in his book, God in three person, to another scholar's admission of (ignorance) and his own on page 258: saying Steven Davis has examined the major contemporary explanations (of the trinity) and having them noy yo accomplished what they claim to, has been HONEST in acknowledging that he is dealing with a (MYSTERY) in so doing he has perhaps been more candid than many of us (trinitarians), when pressed May have to admit that we really do not know in what way God is one and in what different way he is three. this is from one of your own. they admit its a mystery, and doesn't it for the mystry of ineqiuty all ready works inthe childern of disobedience. stop decieving yourself and others…..Gene Hi Gene, Most Trinitarians will admit that the Trinity is a “mystery.”  In fact, all of the authors that I enjoy (Swindoll, Lewis, McDowell, Morey, Lutzer and others) have said thus about the Trinity. God being a “mystery” does not deter them in their pursuit of this teaching.  In fact, it makes the teaching even more endearing and reveared.  This “mystery” is to be feared and never questioned. Why believe a “mystery” when God wants us to KNOW HIM?  Is the question I asked before I left the church.  These are a few of the answers I received: 1.  Greater minds than ours have contemplated who and what God is – we are to base our belief on their inspired conclusions (referring to the creeds). 2.  God is infinite and we are finite – how can one understand the other? 3.  The church says this is true and you are to beleive it without question. 4.  Swindoll says this, “If you can understand it then it's not God!”  And the list could go on and on. The truth is, God is awesome and who knows all his ways or his mind?  No one.  But can we know him?  Yes!  Does he need to remain a “mystery”?  Certainly not!  It is a pre-req for us to KNOW HIM according to Jesus' own words. John 17:3 This is eternal life; TO KNOW THE ONE TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent. Can you imagine having a relationship with your spouse if they were a “mystery”?  How intimate do you think you would be with such a person?  There are some basic things that we must know about those we love and trust.  For me, these basics are who and what they are.

Not3

Since you quoted the scripture Jn 17:3, that would have been a bombshell to a Montheistic Jew for Jesus to put his name there with God the Father as the “Only true God” and that they were to not just believe in the Father but in him to be saved, then maybe you can explain in light of this how suddenly God who was their only Saviour according to the Hebrew scriptures would send another to be their Savior?

Just simply saying he is not God does not invalidate scriptures that say he is.

John 17:3 does not say Jesus is not God, in fact for Jesus to make this claim that to know God and Jesus is eternal life is a smack in the face for the Monotheistic Jew and the Hebrew scriptures that says there is “No Other” if Jesus was not God one with the Father.

You see there is scripture that also shows Jesus is the “True God” also.

1 Jn 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life

While it is true this scripture is ambiguous so is John 17:3.

Thing is not3, I believe Jesus is the “Son of God”.

There are scriptures that says he is God and One with the Father.

If I am wrong (of course to me my faith is sure), I still have him as the Son of God and will be found giving honour to the Son as I honour God!

What about you not3?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ July 06 2007,06:29)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 06 2007,06:23) What does it mean “The Son of Man” and “The Son of God”? “Son of Man” = Man. “Son of God” = Man. HMMM. Do they mean the same? Butting in here……hope you don't mind? Do they mean the same thing?  In my opinion, no, they do not mean the same thing. God + Man = Divine Man Using the above equation the following would be true: Son of Man = Divine Man Son of God = Divine Man *We can also partake of the divine nature* *We will be adopted into this biological family* *We follow Jesus who is God's true Son* OK, off to enjoy the day!  It's gorgeous out there…..

not3

There is only “One Divine Being”!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 06 2007,06:59)

Quote (Not3in1 @ July 06 2007,06:29) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 06 2007,06:23) What does it mean “The Son of Man” and “The Son of God”? “Son of Man” = Man. “Son of God” = Man. HMMM. Do they mean the same? Butting in here……hope you don't mind? Do they mean the same thing?  In my opinion, no, they do not mean the same thing. God + Man = Divine Man Using the above equation the following would be true: Son of Man = Divine Man Son of God = Divine Man *We can also partake of the divine nature* *We will be adopted into this biological family* *We follow Jesus who is God's true Son* OK, off to enjoy the day!  It's gorgeous out there….. not3 There is only “One Divine Being”!

Not3

Could you explain?

You say…

Quote

Do they mean the same thing?  In my opinion, no, they do not mean the same thing.

But then you say…

Quote

Son of Man = Divine Man Son of God = Divine Man

Also could you give me scriptures that support your formula?

[NickHassan]

Quote (Not3in1 @ July 06 2007,06:29)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 06 2007,06:23) What does it mean “The Son of Man” and “The Son of God”? “Son of Man” = Man. “Son of God” = Man. HMMM. Do they mean the same? Butting in here……hope you don't mind? Do they mean the same thing?  In my opinion, no, they do not mean the same thing. God + Man = Divine Man Using the above equation the following would be true: Son of Man = Divine Man Son of God = Divine Man *We can also partake of the divine nature* *We will be adopted into this biological family* *We follow Jesus who is God's true Son* OK, off to enjoy the day!  It's gorgeous out there…..

Hi not3,
So Christ was different. He had unfair advantages?
He was not an ordinary man.
Can we follow him?

He was a very ordinary man transformed by the Spirit of God.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (kenrch @ July 06 2007,04:31)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 06 2007,04:15) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 06 2007,02:34) acertainchap,,> the biggest lie ever told people seeking God The Father is that Jesus is God Himself. This idology came about by fallen or apostasised Christanity, it creates the Man of Sin spoken of by the apostle Paul. this whole idology of turnning Jesus a man like you and me into a God Man and saying he is a God who sits in the temple of God  as God, creates the man of sin,and they (trenitarians) are the ones who created this idology, creating another God is idolatry. Jesus himself will destory this LIE at his return, just as it say's in 2 thes,2 , with the breath of his mouth i.e, his words. Jesus being a true God is the BIGGEST LIE EVER TOLD. the blessing of God is on all who can see this. your friend ….Gene. Decepto-Meter The Decepto-Meter is turned way up. GB You can shout from the housetops all you like that Jesus is not God. However, Jesus is God and the biggiest lie that satan has created is that he is just a mere man like you and I. Jesus is the Word/God the Lord from heaven who has come in the flesh. Whoever denys that the Word/God has come in the flesh is of the spirit of anti-christ. You see GB you can boldy say that Jesus is not God but you will find yourself in opposition to scriptures that says he is. Quote However, Jesus is God and the biggiest lie that satan has created is that he is just a mere man like you and I. If the Son of man was not like you and I then His sacrifice is void.  Jesus was the SON OF MAN that's what He said. The biggest lie is that Jesus the Son of Man was supernatural and only He could do the Father's work but that's what the harlet teaches, isn't it.  How are we to do the father's work if we are not as Jesus.  Sons of men but children of God JUST AS JESUS WAS IHN&L, Ken

K

Is there anyone else in scripture called the “Son of man”?

What does that mean to you?

Besides that he was just a man.

You yourself have admitted with your own lips that “Jesus is God”.

How many Gods do you have K?

Do you call a mere man you Lord and Master?

Does Jesus “By his Spirit” ever speak to you?

Jesus said…

Matt 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.

You boast about keeping the law and commandments.

Do you not know that God is a Jeolous God and there is none beside him!

The Shema…

Deut 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

You should check and see who this one Lord is.

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=1311

Matt 4:10
Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Yet we see Jesus being served and worshipped all the time and he even commands men to obey him.

Jesus said…

Jn 13:13
Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

This is a powerfull statement for a mere man to make to Monotheistic Jews that knew they were only to serve and obey God only!

Jesus said…
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

Wait a minute, did he say “you did it not unto me”?

Shouldnt he have said “God” or the “Father”?

There is no other Saviour, Master and Lord but God.

And yes that God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Grow up k, and stop crying “harlot” harlot” “harlot”, everytime something dosnt agree with you.

The harlot church that you call it, believes that Jesus was born of a virgin and died and rose again, so do you dont you?

So I guess you are following the harlots doctrine?

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
You ask
“Is there anyone else in scripture called the “Son of man”?”
Yes.
Ezekiel for one.
Ez 2
” 1And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee.

2And the spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard him that spake unto me. “

[Author]

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