Preexistence

[Lightenup]

Keith,
If you can't figure it out by what I have written thus far as the the answer to your question then perhaps you are not trying.

Quote

Does God live in me…have you seen patience, kindness, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, self-control come from me? If you have, it is because He lives in me…BY His Spirit! Kathi

Don't make it so hard…keep it simple!
Kathi

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 18 2009,14:13)

Keith, If you can't figure it out by what I have written thus far as the the answer to your question then perhaps you are not trying. Quote Does God live in me…have you seen patience, kindness, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, self-control come from me?  If you have, it is because He lives in me…BY His Spirit! Kathi Don't make it so hard…keep it simple! Kathi

Hi Kathi

Why do you need a thousand words to answer a yes or no question? Its a simple question with a simple answer!

“THE LORD IS THE SPIRIT“, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor 3:17

Is the Lord the Spirit that is in you or not?

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 18 2009,14:13)

Keith, If you can't figure it out by what I have written thus far as the the answer to your question then perhaps you are not trying. Quote Does God live in me…have you seen patience, kindness, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, self-control come from me?  If you have, it is because He lives in me…BY His Spirit! Kathi Don't make it so hard…keep it simple! Kathi

Hi Kathi

BTW, Men can have patience, kindness, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, self-control and not have the Spirit living in them!

WJ

[Lightenup]

Keith,
The Spirit OF God is in me. That is only 7 words…and that is your answer. The Spirit guides me and writes God's law on my heart. We no longer need to look at that which is written on stone. That which is written on our hearts is sufficient. BTW, that is what 2 Cor 3:17 is about when is teaches about “spirit”. Don't take it beyond its teaching. Don't miss the message for the sake of your agenda.
Kathi

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 18 2009,17:02)

Keith, The Spirit OF God is in me.  That is only 7 words…and that is your answer.  The Spirit guides me and writes God's law on my heart.  We no longer need to look at that which is written on stone.  That which is written on our hearts is sufficient.  BTW, that is what 2 Cor 3:17 is about when is teaches about “spirit”.  Don't take it beyond its teaching.  Don't miss the message for the sake of your agenda. Kathi

Hi Kathi

Thanks for your answer!

“THE LORD IS THE SPIRIT“, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor 3:17

WJ

[NickHassan]

For Irene

[georg]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 23 2009,06:26)

For Irene

Thank you so much for bringing this up. Much appreciated.
Irene

[georg]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 19 2009,10:56)

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 18 2009,17:02) Keith, The Spirit OF God is in me.  That is only 7 words…and that is your answer.  The Spirit guides me and writes God's law on my heart.  We no longer need to look at that which is written on stone.  That which is written on our hearts is sufficient.  BTW, that is what 2 Cor 3:17 is about when is teaches about “spirit”.  Don't take it beyond its teaching.  Don't miss the message for the sake of your agenda. Kathi Hi Kathi Thanks for your answer! “THE LORD IS THE SPIRIT“, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor 3:17 WJ

W.J.  The Spirit is the LORDS Spirit.  If you believe that, then that shows no trinity.  The Spirit of the LORD is not the third Person of the trinity.
Irene

[georg]

The reason I wanted this tread up again is for Gene.  He and Jodi do not believe that Jesus preexsisted His Birth here on Earth.  Scriptures however do say so.
Col. 1:15-17
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
verse 16 For by Him all things were created that are in Heaven and that are on Earth, visble and invisible……
verse 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
Rev. 3:14..” These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God.”
And of course there is John 1:1
In John 17:5 Jesus said this:” And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory I had with You, before the world was.”
So if this does not show that He did exist before He became a man, nothing will.
IMO That is why Jesus never sinned, because He knew what was at stake.
Peace and Love Irene

[Cato]

The thread was originally about whether Jesus pre-existed his birth on earth.  Let us take that one step further about mankind in general.  I will assume that for most here they feel no one (with the exception of perhaps Jesus), existed before they were born.  I would also imagine that most also believe that man has a spiritual component beyond the physical body lets call it a spirit to match the terminology most use here. So I take it that this spirit is evidently created sometime during the period of the body's manufacture?  At conception when sperm hits egg, at somepoint during development in the womb or at the moment of birth?  Or just perhaps all of us existed before our births with our spirits having been created when the universe was or perhaps time itself and these spirits are then later sent to inhabit bodies in order to interact in the material world for whatever purpose we are meant to serve.  Perhaps it was not only Jesus but all of us that pre-existed out births.

[Tim Kraft]

Cato: Your last two lines about pre-existing births is on target. The information is very deep and not totally necessary to know to walk in Gods plan but it is a very interesting study. Be prepared if you go this direction you will also find re-incarnation as a most probable fact!!Bless you, TK

[KangarooJack]

Cato said:

Quote

Or just perhaps all of us existed before our births with our spirits having been created when the universe was or perhaps time itself and these spirits are then later sent to inhabit bodies in order to interact in the material world for whatever purpose we are meant to serve.  Perhaps it was not only Jesus but all of us that pre-existed out births.

Cato,
When Abraham tithed to Melchizedek the Levites were in his loins tithing too (Hebrews 7). So men do indeed pre-exist their “conception.” But we did not pre-exist creation which Jesus did.

thinker

[georg]

Quote (Cato @ Sep. 23 2009,23:34)

The thread was originally about whether Jesus pre-existed his birth on earth.  Let us take that one step further about mankind in general.  I will assume that for most here they feel no one (with the exception of perhaps Jesus), existed before they were born.  I would also imagine that most also believe that man has a spiritual component beyond the physical body lets call it a spirit to match the terminology most use here. So I take it that this spirit is evidently created sometime during the period of the body's manufacture?  At conception when sperm hits egg, at some point during development in the womb or at the moment of birth?  Or just perhaps all of us existed before our births with our spirits having been created when the universe was or perhaps time itself and these spirits are then later sent to inhabit bodies in order to interact in the material world for whatever purpose we are meant to serve.  Perhaps it was not only Jesus but all of us that pre-existed out births.

Cato! Even though I believe there is a Spirit in man, I don't believe that our Spirit preexisted like Jesus was. And Jesus was aware where He was, before He became a man.
When we are born in the flesh, we really are not aware of anything until we get older. Also we would not understand much of God, until we receive God's Holy Spirit at Baptism. We have to have some of God's Spirit in order to come out of the systems, we are in at that present, before we are Baptized.
Peace and Love Irene

[Proclaimer]

There is a fine line between spirit and soul.
Spirit is given by God and it gives life. The spirit is given by God and returns.
Eternal life is a life giving spring of his spirit that doesn't end. Rivers of life proceeding from our inner most being.

Our soul is who we are. God is in the business of saving souls.

Did our souls pre-exist? We know that spirit existed before us because it came from God.

Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (soul/being)

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

1 Peter 1:9
for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Revelation 6:9
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[GeneBalthrop]

T8………..you said there is a “fine” line between Soul and Spirit, what is it . Would like to know you thoughts on this. I am of the understanding that a Soul is the combination of breathe of GOD in a BODY.   Soul might be our distinct Personalities we all have (not sure) and Spirit is added to it. Then there would exist Spirit (INTELLECT), in a Personality + Body = SOUL That would make three distinct things , Scripture show we are Bodies, that have the breath of GOD in US, and then become a living (Nafish) or a living SOUL it shows nothing else add that create a SOUL and in this case there would be only two things that make up our being a Body and Breath of LIFE from GOD and that would compose a complete SOUL. Jesus said don't fear him who can kill the body and after that can do nothing else, but fear him who can destory BOTH , body and Soul in the grave. You could be right though when a man dies the Spirit leaves Him His body corrupts and returns to dust. But no where that i know of does it show a Soul without a body of some kind, You quoted the Souls of then that sleep but did they have bodies of some kind in order for them to be seen, it appears they must have in order for them to have been seen. And again that could have been symbolic in Revelations and Not literial.  

Now if we looked at it as Only two things compose a Living Being or Soul, and Spirit is Added or subtracted, this makes much sense because if the wrong spirit (intellect) in in a (SOUL) it can be replaced with a right one, ” for whosoever is born of the spirit (of God) can not SIN. , and when Jesus said an unclean Spirit (intellect) leaves a man (IT) goes about in arid places looking for rest, IN other words a person to go into. Why because Spirit is thought or intellect, so this example shows us Spirit (intellect) can be removed and added into a person or SOUL. By separating Spirit from soul that means a person can be changed by his thinking or (Spirit intellect) , So Change is possible for all. Would like more of your and others thoughts on this.

peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene

peace and love ……………gene

[gollamudi]

Hi brother T8,
You have told that our spirits pre-exist before our birth. Is it it so? was it an independent being or a person as often you believe about Jesus pre-existed as spirit being along with God?

[Proclaimer]

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Think of the joints and marrow. Joints are body parts made of bone that have marrow inside. The bone lives and grows because of the marrow.

Perhaps the soul is the bone and the marrow is the spirit. What is this saying to you?

Ecclesiastes 12:7
and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
      and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

We can see that God gave the spirit and it will return to him.

The spirit is what gives us life. We are given life and then we die. But if we belong to God, we will be resurrected. The wicked shall be damned forever. They will never be given life eternal.

The spirit comes from God. He is the father of spirits.

[GeneBalthrop]

T8…………> notice it say the dust (body) returns to the ground it came from and the Spirit returns to GOD who Gave IT. Nothing else is mentioned there, Just a body (dust) and Spirit. I still believe that is a a LIVING SOUL IS , a BODY with SPIRIT added to it and that combination is what makes up a living Soul. Would like more of your input on this and others also.

gene

[Proclaimer]

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Gene said: Quote Thinker ………..Why should He be an Heir if He created it all, it would be his anyway. Does it not say God does (ALL) things after the council of HIS (OWN) WILL, But Jesus said He came (NOT) to do HIS WILL But the WILL of HIM who SENT HIM. MY another trinitarian dilemma but i am sure you and WJ and CA have some (MYSTERY RELIGION) explanation for this though. Face it thinker nothing you people produce make any sense at all. DUMP the TRINITY GARBAGE THINKER. gene Gene, Paul said about Christ, “Though He was rich, yet He became poor for your sakes that you might become rich through His poverty.” No “dilemna” Gene. He was never rich in this world. So He must have been rich in His pre-existance. Again, no dilemna for me Gene. The dilemna is yours. thinker

Please explain Gene.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Gene @ Sep. 28 2009,16:55)

T8…………> notice it say the dust (body) returns to the ground it came from and the Spirit returns to GOD who Gave IT. Nothing else is mentioned there, Just a body (dust) and Spirit. I still believe that is a a LIVING SOUL IS , a BODY with SPIRIT added to it and that combination is what makes up a living Soul.  Would like more of your input on this and others also. gene

That is possible Gene.

But then you do run into some difficulty explaining how the souls of martyrs are under the throne of God and can speak or communicate.

Revelation 20:4
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

I don't think these guys have a body.

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