Preexistence

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2009,16:43)

Hi Kathi Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2009,15:14) So, I think that is the reason the neuter word, Spirit, is referred to as the pronoun “he.”  I wouldn't build a case around the pronouns.  For instance if the word 'doctor' is a male noun, that doesn't mean that the doctor is a male. So what does that prove? The Father does not have gender either, right? What about this word then…? But when the “Comforter (paraklētos)” is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: John 15:26 This is the same word that is used for Jesus here… My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an “advocate (paraklētos)” with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1 Strong's G3875 – paraklētos “masculine noun” 1) summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid a) one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate b) one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor 1) of Christ in his exaltation at God's right hand, pleading with God the Father for the pardon of our sins c) in the widest sense, a helper, succourer, aider, assistant 1) of the Holy Spirit destined to take the place of Christ with the apostles (after his ascension to the Father), to lead them to a deeper knowledge of the gospel truth, and give them divine strength needed to enable them to undergo trials and persecutions on behalf of the divine kingdom Is Jesus a living being or a person? And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you “another” “Comforter (paraklētos)” , that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16 Jesus clearly teaches that he would send “another Comforter” advacate, helper, one that would be with us forever! WJ

Keith,
The Comforter is the Spirit that is within the Father, that can proceed from the Father and resides WITHIN us. We can have a share of the Father's personal spirit in us. It isn't a person, it is a part of God that He fellowships with us through. God communicates through His spirit that He has placed within us which goes with us always…everywhere. IMO
G'nite,
Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2009,16:15)

Hi Kathi Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2009,15:14) So, the Father's mind is the source of the thoughts and His Spirit is that which receives the thoughts and conveys the thoughts (or power).  His Spirit does not initiate the thoughts but instead receives or takes the thoughts that is received or 'heard' and passes them on. His Spirit is an intimate PART of God. A spirit cannot speak on its own because it doesn't think, it is not the source of the thought.  It receives the thought. Ok you say that the Spirit recieves or takes the thoughts of God and passes them on. How is that done if the Spirit is not a living being? So if what you say is true then the Father God according to John 16:13-15 is hearing what to say and taking from Jesus and showing it unto us. In other words the Father is subject to the Son? WJ

Keith,
Our spirit searches our thoughts and expresses our thoughts, often as emotions…love, joy, peace, patience etc. We know that our spirit is not another person occupying our body. It is just a part of our whole being, not another whole being within our whole being.

G'nite for real!!!
Kathi

[Not3in1]

Hi Keith,

Your patience to continue with these subjects (that I'm sure you've discussed a zillion times) always amazes me. And I'm grateful that you continue on in such a teaching manner…..I am listening.

Quote

However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, “if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him”. Rom 8:9

The spirit of Christ is what binds us together as brother's. With this spirit we all cry out, Abba Father! If we are not brother's, and co-heirs with Christ….indeed we do not belong to the Father; we are not one of his children.

Quote

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to know that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are “One Spirit” and are used interchangeably by the Apostles in speaking of the “One God”!

Perhaps they are united in spirit, indeed. Sort of a, “One for all, and all for one!” type of thing. We also share in that one Spirit…that doesn't make us God, does it?

I confess that as I have done a study on the use of the words “spirit/Spirit” it has been confusing.

I've been enjoying your exchanges with Kathi!

Love,
Mandy

[Cindy]

W.J. If the Holy Spirit is a Person think of this. His He then the Father of Jesus? That would be so. But we know that is not so.Just something to think about. Also in Ephesians it says that the Father is above all and not that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all equal.
Irene

[Cindy]

Mandy! Do you believe in a trinity now? In the past I was under the impression that you do not believe in it.
Irene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 15 2009,03:24)

W.J. If the Holy Spirit is a Person think of this.  His He then the Father of Jesus?  That would be so. But we know that is not so.Just something to think about.  Also in Ephesians it says that the Father is above all and not that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all equal. Irene

Hi Irene

That works two ways. If the Holy Spirit is the Father then that means that he is God, unless you believe Jesus was concieved by an “IT”.

WJ

[Proclaimer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 08 2009,09:49)

Hi t8 Not all Trintarians speak for all Trinitarians no more than the Arians or Henotheist speak the same things! Even so, it amazes me how the anti-trinitarians claim that they know and understand everything about an infinite God and his nature.

I believe your above statement is just plain wrong.

First off, Trinitarians say that you cannot understand the Trinity Doctrine most of the time. In fact, I have yet to speak to anyone who says the fully comprehend the Trinity doctrine. Do you comprehend the doctrine?

Secondly, those that know that the Father is the only true God and that he sent Christ are hopefully not saying that they fully understand God, but that we know what we know about God, because it is written. What is written is enough to condemn the Trinity doctrine as a vain imaginations of men trying to quantify and qualify God by their own understanding. Man who came from God is now arrogant enough to tell God that he is a Trinity, a substance, and 3 persons, when what God revealed in scripture makes no such claims and the claims it does make are contrary to such thinking.

How can anything true, pure, and good come from the spirit of man? That which is true comes from the spirit of God, and scripture was inspired by God. That is partly why you hear a lot that we do not wish to venture outside of that which God has revealed. We try to read scripture and the Trinity is not there and is not even hinted at.

God is one. The Father is the one true God and he sent Jesus his son into the world.

You cannot change the truth of God for a lie. You can in your own understanding, but your understanding and all man-made ideas will not snuff out the truth and light of God.

[KangarooJack]

t8 said to WJ:

Quote

First off, Trinitarians say that you cannot understand the Trinity Doctrine most of the time. In fact, I have yet to speak to anyone who says the fully comprehend the Trinity doctrine. Do you comprehend the doctrine?

t8,
As a Preterist I comprehend the trinity doctrine. The Preterist hermeneutic brings all things together.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

WorshippingJesus said:

Quote

Hi Kathi The scripture you quote also does not mention Jesus is God either does it? What does that prove? You are proving my point by taking “one” scripture and building your doctrine around it! How about this one… “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the **communion** of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen”. 2 Cor 13:14 Here we see Paul mentioning all three using the word “Communion” which means… Strong's G2842 – koinōnia 1) fellowship, association, community, communion, joint participation, intercourse….

WJ,
Yes bro! We have sweet communion with the Holy Spirit. He is indeed a person.

thinker

[Cindy]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 16 2009,07:22)

t8 said to WJ: Quote First off, Trinitarians say that you cannot understand the Trinity Doctrine most of the time. In fact, I have yet to speak to anyone who says the fully comprehend the Trinity doctrine. Do you comprehend the doctrine? t8, As a Preterist I comprehend the trinity doctrine. The Preterist hermeneutic brings all things together. thinker

And how do you prove it with Scriptures?  You can't.  No where in the Bible is it written.  However I can prove  to you that it is wrong.  
Rphesians 4:6  for the Father is above all, and through all, and in us all.
Throigh out the O.T. it says that there is only one True God.  And that is Jehovah God.
Jesus is the Son f God, even though in John 1:1 it is the Word and God.  If I would not know that God is a title I would sat that it contradicts the Scrioptures I just quoted.  So if you disagree with me, then prove otherwise. One more thing, the trinity also says that the Holy Spirit is a person, how about that, then He is the Father of Jesus, and we know that is not true.

[Cindy]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 16 2009,00:00)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 08 2009,09:49) Hi t8 Not all Trintarians speak for all Trinitarians no more than the Arians or Henotheist speak the same things! Even so, it amazes me how the anti-trinitarians claim that they know and understand everything about an infinite God and his nature. I believe your above statement is just plain wrong. First off, Trinitarians say that you cannot understand the Trinity Doctrine most of the time. In fact, I have yet to speak to anyone who says the fully comprehend the Trinity doctrine. Do you comprehend the doctrine? Secondly, those that know that the Father is the only true God and that he sent Christ are hopefully not saying that they fully understand God, but that we know what we know about God, because it is written. What is written is enough to condemn the Trinity doctrine as a vain imaginations of men trying to quantify and qualify God by their own understanding. Man who came from God is now arrogant enough to tell God that he is a Trinity, a substance, and 3 persons, when what God revealed in scripture makes no such claims and the claims it does make are contrary to such thinking. How can anything true, pure, and good come from the spirit of man? That which is true comes from the spirit of God, and  scripture was inspired by God. That is partly why you hear a lot that we do not wish to venture outside of that which God has revealed. We try to read scripture and the Trinity is not there and is not even hinted at. God is one. The Father is the one true God and he sent Jesus his son into the world. You cannot change the truth of God for a lie. You can in your own understanding, but your understanding and all man-made ideas will not snuff out the truth and light of God.

t8 Thank you for your post and I agree with it.

Irene

[Not3in1]

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 15 2009,19:28)

Mandy!  Do you believe in a trinity now?  In the past I was under the impression that you do not believe in it. Irene

Hi Irene,

What has given you this idea?

Love,
Mandy

[Cindy]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 16 2009,13:35)

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 15 2009,19:28) Mandy!  Do you believe in a trinity now?  In the past I was under the impression that you do not believe in it. Irene Hi Irene, What has given you this idea? Love, Mandy

Mandy! I am not sure, where I believed that. So that is why I now asked that question ” if you believe in it or not.”
Irene

[GeneBalthrop]

Irene…………..Mandy is (NOT) a Trinitarian>

peace and love to you and Georg……………….gene

[Lightenup]

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 15 2009,22:40)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 16 2009,13:35) Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 15 2009,19:28) Mandy!  Do you believe in a trinity now?  In the past I was under the impression that you do not believe in it. Irene Hi Irene, What has given you this idea? Love, Mandy Mandy!   I am not sure, where I believed that.  So that is why I now asked that question ”  if you believe in it or not.” Irene

Hey little German girl,
Mandy is still “Not3in1.”
When you see her name as “3in1” then that might mean she is once again a trinitarian but for now it is still “Not3in1.”

Hope that helps,
Kathi

[942767]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 16 2009,07:22)

t8 said to WJ: Quote First off, Trinitarians say that you cannot understand the Trinity Doctrine most of the time. In fact, I have yet to speak to anyone who says the fully comprehend the Trinity doctrine. Do you comprehend the doctrine? t8, As a Preterist I comprehend the trinity doctrine. The Preterist hermeneutic brings all things together. thinker

Hi thethinker:

If you understand the doctrine, explain it backing it up with scripture.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Not3in1]

Hi Irene,

I was raised a Trinitarian, although I never questioned the teaching until 2003 (late bloomer, I guess).

I still question the teaching to this very day, for I find it no where written in the scriptures.

I hope this eases your mind?

Love,
Mandy

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 16 2009,09:40)

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 16 2009,07:22) t8 said to WJ: Quote First off, Trinitarians say that you cannot understand the Trinity Doctrine most of the time. In fact, I have yet to speak to anyone who says the fully comprehend the Trinity doctrine. Do you comprehend the doctrine? t8, As a Preterist I comprehend the trinity doctrine. The Preterist hermeneutic brings all things together. thinker And how do you prove it with Scriptures?  You can't.  No where in the Bible is it written.  However I can prove  to you that it is wrong.   Rphesians 4:6  for the Father is above all, and through all, and in us all. Throigh out the O.T. it says that there is only one True God.  And that is Jehovah God. Jesus is the Son f God, even though in John 1:1 it is the Word and God.  If I would not know that God is a title I would sat that it contradicts the Scrioptures I just quoted.  So if you disagree with me, then prove otherwise. One more thing, the trinity also says that the Holy Spirit is a person, how about that, then He is the Father of Jesus, and we know that is not true.

Irene,
You can't prove the trinity doctrine is wrong until you deal honestly with the doctrine of the exaltation of Christ. So far you have relied on only one statement “My Father is greater than I.” It is at this statement that you “close the book.” But open the book and keep reading and see that Jesus has been exalted since He said that.

Jesus is at the Father's right hand and He has ALL authority now! You have denied His exaltation and this puts you in the “non-Christian” category. You cannot prove what you believe when you leave out such an important part of the story of Jesus. All you have proven is that you are anti-Catholic.

thinker

[Not3in1]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 16 2009,21:05)

Jesus is at the Father's right hand and He has ALL authority now!

Ah yes…..for now Jesus is in control. But there will come a time, you are well aware, that he will hand over that control to the one who granted it. Jesus will gladly give all power back so that the Father will be all in all.

This doesn't sound like an equal trinity of heads to me.

Love,
Mandy

[Not3in1]

It's a shame the board keeps clearing so quickly. It makes it more difficult to keep track of recent posts. Perhaps it could be cleared once every 24 hours or something? It seems it's cleared more often?

Thanks,
Mandy

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