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WJ………..Can't you see everything Jesus Has has been given Him from the FATHER including the SPIRIT. Jesus is (NOT) the SOU?RCE of it , it is the FATHER, It say Jesus has the seven spirits (OF) GOD the word (OF) is the same as FROM GOD. WE also who have GOD spirit in Us are Shearing in the same SPIRIT that is IN JESUS our Brother. why can't you people get this? Let this mind be in you that was In Christ Jesus (same mind) no difference. “IF THIS MIND BE IN YOU (IT) WILL (ALSO) QUICKEN YOU MORTAL BODIES”. JUST LIKE IT DID HIS. Jesus has (NOW) a flesh and bone BODY, He is (NOT) Spirit as GOD the FATHER (IS).When Jesus ascended into Heaven it was with his resurected (BODY) which He (NOW) has, And is alive for ever with that body. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 14 2009,04:15) WJ………..Can't you see everything Jesus Has has been given Him from the FATHER including the SPIRIT. Jesus is (NOT) the SOU?RCE of it , it is the FATHER, It say Jesus has the seven spirits (OF) GOD the word (OF) is the same as FROM GOD. WE also who have GOD spirit in Us are Shearing in the same SPIRIT that is IN JESUS our Brother. why can't you people get this? Let this mind be in you that was In Christ Jesus (same mind) no difference. “IF THIS MIND BE IN YOU (IT) WILL (ALSO) QUICKEN YOU MORTAL BODIES”. JUST LIKE IT DID HIS. Jesus has (NOW) a flesh and bone BODY, He is (NOT) Spirit as GOD the FATHER (IS).When Jesus ascended into Heaven it was with his resurected (BODY) which He (NOW) has, And is alive for ever with that body. IMO peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene
Amen to that post brother Gene. Trinitarians can not realise this truth. God's spirit is in Jesus and same spirit is in us that doesn't make us equal to God in any respect. But they make Jesus as second person of God(Trinity).Awake God's people to know the truth.
Peace to you
AdamQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 08 2009,18:01) If Jesus Christ does not live in you then you are none of his!
Because you are sons, God has sent forth THE SPIRIT OF HIS SON INTO OUR HEARTS, CRYING, “ABBA! FATHER!” Gal 4:6
The “spirit of his son” is in ESSENCE a “spirit of sonship”, not the spirit of Jesus, himself.If we are brothers with Christ, we are indeed co-heirs with him. We can also cry out – Abba Father!
Excellent post, Keith – excellent!!!
Love,
MandyTo All……….SPIRIT is simply (INTELLECT) and is expressed in Words…………Jesus said…..”the (WORDS) i am telling you (ARE) SPIRIT and LIFE”. We are also told to “try the Spirits to see if they are of (from) GOD”. When we try the spirits, what are we trying, is it not a persons WORDS. Words and Spirit (ARE) the same thing because they express the Spirit (intellect) to us, therefore a man shall be judged by His Words because they express His spirit (intellect). We are also (WASHED) or Made Clean by the washing of the words of GOD. Spirit is (NOT) a Being, it is what is (IN) a BEING. There are seven (spirits) coupled with (powers) that make up (ONE) GOD or set POWERS . “In the beginning was the word (expressed intellect) and the word was with GOD, POWERS and the word WAS GOD (POWER). God and Gods word are one and the same, just as your words and you are the same, So a man thinks so He is, So GOD thinks So He is. The seven spirit are (before the throne of GOD) in fact they are what goes out from the LORD who sit on the throne, and are what He uses to create all things and He send them out into (ALL) the earth. Jesus now has the seven Spirits (intellects) of GOD with Power in Him now. “I saw a lamb as if it were slain having seven Horns and Seven Eyes , which are the seven Spirits of GOD that goes out into all the earth”. ONE (LORD) controls all SEVEN of the SPIRITS coupled with POWERS and uses them to create with. Jesus has these seven in him , but they are not (HIS) Spirits but the seven SPIRITS of are from the LORD GOD. That does not make Jesus a Separate GOD , we all can have theses Spirits in us also Just as He does, “until we call come unto the (FULL) measure of CHRIST”. IMO
peace and love to you all…………………..gene
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 14 2009,03:27) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 08 2009,18:01) If Jesus Christ does not live in you then you are none of his!
Because you are sons, God has sent forth THE SPIRIT OF HIS SON INTO OUR HEARTS, CRYING, “ABBA! FATHER!” Gal 4:6
The “spirit of his son” is in ESSENCE a “spirit of sonship”, not the spirit of Jesus, himself.If we are brothers with Christ, we are indeed co-heirs with him. We can also cry out – Abba Father!
Excellent post, Keith – excellent!!!
Love,
Mandy
Hi MandyThanks for the compliment!
But what do these scriptures mean?
“Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith“; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, “THAT JESUS CHRIST IS IN YOU–UNLESS INDEED YOU FAIL THE TEST”? 2 Cor 13:5
for I know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayers and the provision of “the Spirit of Jesus Christ“, Phil 1:19
However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, “if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him”. Rom 8:9
Clearly it is Jesus Spirit that lives in us. If Jesus is not in us then he could not promise to be with us to the ends of the world, or promise that where two or three are gathered together he would be in our midst, or promise that he and the Father would come and make their abode in us!
And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect* the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever increasing glory, which comes from “the Lord, who is the Spirit”. 2 Cor 3:18
The Scriptures almost invariably speaks of Jesus the “One Lord” (1 Cor 8:6)
Yet again we know that we have been made to drink of only “One Spirit” and that God lives in our bodies which is his temple.
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to know that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are “One Spirit” and are used interchangeably by the Apostles in speaking of the “One God”!
Blessings, WJ
WJ……..Jesus Christ is (NOT) a SPIRIT He is a being He can't live in you. The Spirit that was (IN) Jesus can live in you. Lets read as written 2 Cor 13:5 ..> Examine yourselves whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, (HOW) that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? You changed what was written WJ, to fit your trinitarian ideologies.
Notice it's addressing (HOW) Jesus Christ is (IN) you. Jesus The anointed is in us by that SAME anointing that was in HIM> That is (HOW) he is in US. “Let this mind be in you that was (ALSO) in Christ Jesus our lord. This has nothing to do with Jesus Himself being in a person, it's the Same SPIRIT in Him and US>That is the SPIRIT of the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD. The SPIRIT of Christ is the SPIRIT(intellect) of GOD the FATHER and (IT) was in Jesus and is IN all who Have (IT)> Same SPIRIT as Jesus Has, and that is (HOW) The anointed JESUS is in US> WJ you as well as (ALL) trinitarians a STEALING GLORY FROM the FATHER and TRANSFRING IT TO JESUS, something Jesus (NEVER) DID. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 11 2009,10:17) Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 08 2009,21:19) Kathi and W.J. What sets us apart from the Animal is the mind. Without it we could not function. That is in the image of God. There is a Spirit in Man that God gave us. Without God's Holy Spirit however we could not understand the things of God. So by laying on of Hands we have received also God's Holy Spirit. Now we can understand the things of God. When we die the Spirit goes back to God who gave it. It all sound's rather confusing, but it really is not. God has always just been Spirit while Christ gave up the Spirit Being in order to become a Human man. To die for our sin's. On the cross He cried out:” My God why have you forsaken me.” Why was that? Christ took all sin's upon Him for us.
God the Father can not look on Sin, so at that time God looked away or rather it was sin in Christ that turned Christ away from God. The same happens when we sin. Now after Christ returned to God after His resurrection, we have a Mediator between us and God, to go directley to the Throne of God and ask for the forgiveness of our sins. Now we are again clean. What a wonderful Heavenly Father we have to have send His only begotten Son to die for us, so we can have eternal Life. All is well with my Soul. Amen and Amen.
Peace and Love Irene
How is it you say that there was sin in Christ and yet you say that Christ returned to the Father and the Father accepted him with all the sin.
No, when He died all sin's were erased. It is because Christ is the perfect Sacrifice. He Himself never sinned. Don't you know that? That is strange that you so called Christian are so critical. Why do you think that God did not reply to Hus Son, when He cried out and said:” My God why have you forsaken Me.” And why did Jesus cry out? Was it not because He did take on Him all sin's of Mankind?Quote (Gene @ Aug. 14 2009,12:07) WJ……..Jesus Christ is (NOT) a SPIRIT He is a being He can't live in you. The Spirit that was (IN) Jesus can live in you. Lets read as written 2 Cor 13:5 ..> Examine yourselves whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, (HOW) that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? You changed what was written WJ, to fit your trinitarian ideologies. Notice it's addressing (HOW) Jesus Christ is (IN) you. Jesus The anointed is in us by that SAME anointing that was in HIM> That is (HOW) he is in US. “Let this mind be in you that was (ALSO) in Christ Jesus our lord. This has nothing to do with Jesus Himself being in a person, it's the Same SPIRIT in Him and US>That is the SPIRIT of the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD. The SPIRIT of Christ is the SPIRIT(intellect) of GOD the FATHER and (IT) was in Jesus and is IN all who Have (IT)> Same SPIRIT as Jesus Has, and that is (HOW) The anointed JESUS is in US> WJ you as well as (ALL) trinitarians a STEALING GLORY FROM the FATHER and TRANSFRING IT TO JESUS, something Jesus (NEVER) DID. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Hi GeneThen Paul lied…
“Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith“; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, “THAT JESUS CHRIST IS IN YOU–UNLESS INDEED YOU FAIL THE TEST”? 2 Cor 13:5
If you say Jesus is not in you, then that would explain why you fail the test!
WJ
Hi Gene
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 14 2009,12:07) WJ you as well as (ALL) trinitarians a STEALING GLORY FROM the FATHER and TRANSFRING IT TO JESUS, something Jesus (NEVER) DID. IMO
No it is something the Father has done and something you should do also!WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 10 2009,18:27) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 08 2009,02:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 08 2009,02:40) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 08 2009,02:28) Keith,
The spirit of a person is not the person, it is a part of a person. A person is made up of a mind, body, and a spirit. The spirit is not the body, the spirit is not the mind, the spirit is the spirit. It really can be simple.The spirit of God is part of God but not every part of God. The spirit of man is part of man but not every part of man. God can live in us how…by His spirit living in us not by His entire being living in us. God is in heaven.
One Father, One Son, united in spirit with many believers.
Kathi
KathiNot so. The Spirit is the man! We are Spirit beings like the Father, who has a soul and lives in a body.
It is our Spirit that is the new creation or new man that is who we are, born again by the Spirit!
My Spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior is the same as saying I rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 08 2009,02:28) The spirit of God is part of God but not every part of God. Are there scriptures that says the Spirit of God is part of God but not every part of God? Please show me!
Sounds like more extra-Biblical termonology to me!
WJ
Here is scripture for you Keith:1 Cor 2:10-12
10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
NASUI'm off to bed…your confusion has been keeping me up too late
Kathi
Hi KathiCan you show me how the Spirit of God in those passages is “A” part of God and not equal to God?
These scriptures say no man knows the thoughts of God, but the Spirit does. I am in agreement that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. But he is equal to the Father, for the Father does nothing apart from the Spirit does he?
Jesus said all things were given to him and the Spirit which you are claiming is the personal Spirit of the Father is subservient to him and takes from him (Jesus) and gives to us.
You still havn't explained how if the Spirit is the personal Spirit of the Father, how he is subservient to him, (Jesus)?
WJ
Hi Keith,
If something is part of somebody we use the word “of.” The genitive case reflects possession and usually shows us who or what owns the possession. The one who owns the possession is not the possession itself but merely the one who owns the possession. The spirit within us is only a part of us. For instance, my spirit does not include say…my blood which is also a part of me. My spirit within me is personal and contains my thoughts and emotions. I don't think that my spirit thinks my thoughts but more like receives my thoughts from my mind which is maybe my soul…I don't know for sure, these are just what I perceive. I believe that my spirit and soul go on after my blood stops flowing. My blood will cease to exist someday, my spirit and soul will continue. Therefore, my spirit is not me, it is a part of me…a possession that I control in part, with my mind, and God controls it also. Notice, I did not say “God controls her.”Regarding the question about the Spirit of God being “subservient” as you say, to Jesus…refresh my memory as to what passage you are referring to.
Thanks,
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2009,12:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 10 2009,18:27) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 08 2009,02:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 08 2009,02:40) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 08 2009,02:28) Keith,
The spirit of a person is not the person, it is a part of a person. A person is made up of a mind, body, and a spirit. The spirit is not the body, the spirit is not the mind, the spirit is the spirit. It really can be simple.The spirit of God is part of God but not every part of God. The spirit of man is part of man but not every part of man. God can live in us how…by His spirit living in us not by His entire being living in us. God is in heaven.
One Father, One Son, united in spirit with many believers.
Kathi
KathiNot so. The Spirit is the man! We are Spirit beings like the Father, who has a soul and lives in a body.
It is our Spirit that is the new creation or new man that is who we are, born again by the Spirit!
My Spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior is the same as saying I rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 08 2009,02:28) The spirit of God is part of God but not every part of God. Are there scriptures that says the Spirit of God is part of God but not every part of God? Please show me!
Sounds like more extra-Biblical termonology to me!
WJ
Here is scripture for you Keith:1 Cor 2:10-12
10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
NASUI'm off to bed…your confusion has been keeping me up too late
Kathi
Hi KathiCan you show me how the Spirit of God in those passages is “A” part of God and not equal to God?
These scriptures say no man knows the thoughts of God, but the Spirit does. I am in agreement that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. But he is equal to the Father, for the Father does nothing apart from the Spirit does he?
Jesus said all things were given to him and the Spirit which you are claiming is the personal Spirit of the Father is subservient to him and takes from him (Jesus) and gives to us.
You still havn't explained how if the Spirit is the personal Spirit of the Father, how he is subservient to him, (Jesus)?
WJ
Hi Keith,
If something is part of somebody we use the word “of.” The genitive case reflects possession and usually shows us who or what owns the possession. The one who owns the possession is not the possession itself but merely the one who owns the possession. The spirit within us is only a part of us. For instance, my spirit does not include say…my blood which is also a part of me. My spirit within me is personal and contains my thoughts and emotions. I don't think that my spirit thinks my thoughts but more like receives my thoughts from my mind which is maybe my soul…I don't know for sure, these are just what I perceive. I believe that my spirit and soul go on after my blood stops flowing. My blood will cease to exist someday, my spirit and soul will continue. Therefore, my spirit is not me, it is a part of me…a possession that I control in part, with my mind, and God controls it also. Notice, I did not say “God controls her.”Regarding the question about the Spirit of God being “subservient” as you say, to Jesus…refresh my memory as to what passage you are referring to.
Thanks,
Kathi
Hi KathiHere are the scriptures…
Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.It can't be the Father because…
- for he shall not speak of himself
- but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:
- that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
It can't be Yeshua because…
- He shall glorify me:
- for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
- that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Not to mention all the verbs surrounding the pronouns that invariably show the Holy Spirit is a person that Speaks, hears, comforts, leads, teaches, glorifys, recieves, takes, shows, strengthens, gives power, gives life, testifys of Jesus, can be grieved, lied to, and blasphemed, and create and on and on.
If you would like I have a list of the verbs and their definitions and how many times the verbs were translated in relation to a person or persons and not an “it” or impersonal force or power!
Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2009,12:42) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 14 2009,12:07) WJ……..Jesus Christ is (NOT) a SPIRIT He is a being He can't live in you. The Spirit that was (IN) Jesus can live in you. Lets read as written 2 Cor 13:5 ..> Examine yourselves whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, (HOW) that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? You changed what was written WJ, to fit your trinitarian ideologies. Notice it's addressing (HOW) Jesus Christ is (IN) you. Jesus The anointed is in us by that SAME anointing that was in HIM> That is (HOW) he is in US. “Let this mind be in you that was (ALSO) in Christ Jesus our lord. This has nothing to do with Jesus Himself being in a person, it's the Same SPIRIT in Him and US>That is the SPIRIT of the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD. The SPIRIT of Christ is the SPIRIT(intellect) of GOD the FATHER and (IT) was in Jesus and is IN all who Have (IT)> Same SPIRIT as Jesus Has, and that is (HOW) The anointed JESUS is in US> WJ you as well as (ALL) trinitarians a STEALING GLORY FROM the FATHER and TRANSFRING IT TO JESUS, something Jesus (NEVER) DID. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Hi GeneThen Paul lied…
“Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith“; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, “THAT JESUS CHRIST IS IN YOU–UNLESS INDEED YOU FAIL THE TEST”? 2 Cor 13:5
If you say Jesus is not in you, then that would explain why you fail the test!
WJ
Hi AllThe problem with ant-trinitarians is that they hear some teaching from the WWCOG or JWs, Etc., and rather than testing the teaching against all of scritpures, they build their belief system around that and end up with a house that is built on sand and cannot stand up against the scrutiny of the entire Bible!
WJ
Hi Gene
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 14 2009,12:07) This has nothing to do with Jesus Himself being in a person, it's the Same SPIRIT in Him and US>That is the SPIRIT of the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD.
The Church of Jesus Christ is his “Body”, are you saying that he does not live in his own Body?This would explain a lot to me because if Jesus is not in you then you are not part of his true Church, “His Body”!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2009,13:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2009,12:42) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 14 2009,12:07) WJ……..Jesus Christ is (NOT) a SPIRIT He is a being He can't live in you. The Spirit that was (IN) Jesus can live in you. Lets read as written 2 Cor 13:5 ..> Examine yourselves whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, (HOW) that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? You changed what was written WJ, to fit your trinitarian ideologies. Notice it's addressing (HOW) Jesus Christ is (IN) you. Jesus The anointed is in us by that SAME anointing that was in HIM> That is (HOW) he is in US. “Let this mind be in you that was (ALSO) in Christ Jesus our lord. This has nothing to do with Jesus Himself being in a person, it's the Same SPIRIT in Him and US>That is the SPIRIT of the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD. The SPIRIT of Christ is the SPIRIT(intellect) of GOD the FATHER and (IT) was in Jesus and is IN all who Have (IT)> Same SPIRIT as Jesus Has, and that is (HOW) The anointed JESUS is in US> WJ you as well as (ALL) trinitarians a STEALING GLORY FROM the FATHER and TRANSFRING IT TO JESUS, something Jesus (NEVER) DID. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Hi GeneThen Paul lied…
“Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith“; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, “THAT JESUS CHRIST IS IN YOU–UNLESS INDEED YOU FAIL THE TEST”? 2 Cor 13:5
If you say Jesus is not in you, then that would explain why you fail the test!
WJ
Hi AllThe problem with ant-trinitarians is that they hear some teaching from the WWCOG or JWs, Etc., and rather than testing the teaching against all of scritpures, they build their belief system around that and end up with a house that is built on sand and cannot stand up against the scrutiny of the entire Bible!
WJ
Keith,
Take your own advice and look at all the scriptures. Consider this one for starters:2 John 3
3 Grace, mercy and peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
NASUIf the Spirit were a “person” also why is the Spirit not included in this verse?
Love ya tho,
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2009,14:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2009,13:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2009,12:42) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 14 2009,12:07) WJ……..Jesus Christ is (NOT) a SPIRIT He is a being He can't live in you. The Spirit that was (IN) Jesus can live in you. Lets read as written 2 Cor 13:5 ..> Examine yourselves whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, (HOW) that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? You changed what was written WJ, to fit your trinitarian ideologies. Notice it's addressing (HOW) Jesus Christ is (IN) you. Jesus The anointed is in us by that SAME anointing that was in HIM> That is (HOW) he is in US. “Let this mind be in you that was (ALSO) in Christ Jesus our lord. This has nothing to do with Jesus Himself being in a person, it's the Same SPIRIT in Him and US>That is the SPIRIT of the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD. The SPIRIT of Christ is the SPIRIT(intellect) of GOD the FATHER and (IT) was in Jesus and is IN all who Have (IT)> Same SPIRIT as Jesus Has, and that is (HOW) The anointed JESUS is in US> WJ you as well as (ALL) trinitarians a STEALING GLORY FROM the FATHER and TRANSFRING IT TO JESUS, something Jesus (NEVER) DID. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Hi GeneThen Paul lied…
“Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith“; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, “THAT JESUS CHRIST IS IN YOU–UNLESS INDEED YOU FAIL THE TEST”? 2 Cor 13:5
If you say Jesus is not in you, then that would explain why you fail the test!
WJ
Hi AllThe problem with ant-trinitarians is that they hear some teaching from the WWCOG or JWs, Etc., and rather than testing the teaching against all of scritpures, they build their belief system around that and end up with a house that is built on sand and cannot stand up against the scrutiny of the entire Bible!
WJ
Keith,
Take your own advice and look at all the scriptures. Consider this one for starters:2 John 3
3 Grace, mercy and peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
NASUIf the Spirit were a “person” also why is the Spirit not included in this verse?
Love ya tho,
Kathi
Hi KathiThe scripture you quote also does not mention Jesus is God either does it?
What does that prove?
You are proving my point by taking “one” scripture and building your doctrine around it!
How about this one…
“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the **communion** of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen“. 2 Cor 13:14
Here we see Paul mentioning all three using the word “Communion” which means…
Strong's G2842 – koinōnia
1) fellowship, association, community, communion, joint participation, intercourse
a) the share which one has in anything, participation
b) intercourse, fellowship, intimacy
1) the right hand as a sign and pledge of fellowship (in fulfilling the apostolic office)
c) a gift jointly contributed, a collection, a contribution, as exhibiting an embodiment and proof of fellowship
If the Holy Spirit is not a person then how do you have the same 'koinōnia' with him that you do with the Father and Jesus?
The same word is used here…
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship (koinōnia)
with us: and “truly our fellowship (ikoinōnia) is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ“. 1 John 1:3WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2009,13:01) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2009,12:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 10 2009,18:27) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 08 2009,02:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 08 2009,02:40) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 08 2009,02:28) Keith,
The spirit of a person is not the person, it is a part of a person. A person is made up of a mind, body, and a spirit. The spirit is not the body, the spirit is not the mind, the spirit is the spirit. It really can be simple.The spirit of God is part of God but not every part of God. The spirit of man is part of man but not every part of man. God can live in us how…by His spirit living in us not by His entire being living in us. God is in heaven.
One Father, One Son, united in spirit with many believers.
Kathi
KathiNot so. The Spirit is the man! We are Spirit beings like the Father, who has a soul and lives in a body.
It is our Spirit that is the new creation or new man that is who we are, born again by the Spirit!
My Spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior is the same as saying I rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 08 2009,02:28) The spirit of God is part of God but not every part of God. Are there scriptures that says the Spirit of God is part of God but not every part of God? Please show me!
Sounds like more extra-Biblical termonology to me!
WJ
Here is scripture for you Keith:1 Cor 2:10-12
10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
NASUI'm off to bed…your confusion has been keeping me up too late
Kathi
Hi KathiCan you show me how the Spirit of God in those passages is “A” part of God and not equal to God?
These scriptures say no man knows the thoughts of God, but the Spirit does. I am in agreement that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. But he is equal to the Father, for the Father does nothing apart from the Spirit does he?
Jesus said all things were given to him and the Spirit which you are claiming is the personal Spirit of the Father is subservient to him and takes from him (Jesus) and gives to us.
You still havn't explained how if the Spirit is the personal Spirit of the Father, how he is subservient to him, (Jesus)?
WJ
Hi Keith,
If something is part of somebody we use the word “of.” The genitive case reflects possession and usually shows us who or what owns the possession. The one who owns the possession is not the possession itself but merely the one who owns the possession. The spirit within us is only a part of us. For instance, my spirit does not include say…my blood which is also a part of me. My spirit within me is personal and contains my thoughts and emotions. I don't think that my spirit thinks my thoughts but more like receives my thoughts from my mind which is maybe my soul…I don't know for sure, these are just what I perceive. I believe that my spirit and soul go on after my blood stops flowing. My blood will cease to exist someday, my spirit and soul will continue. Therefore, my spirit is not me, it is a part of me…a possession that I control in part, with my mind, and God controls it also. Notice, I did not say “God controls her.”Regarding the question about the Spirit of God being “subservient” as you say, to Jesus…refresh my memory as to what passage you are referring to.
Thanks,
Kathi
Hi KathiHere are the scriptures…
Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.It can't be the Father because…
- for he shall not speak of himself
- but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:
- that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
It can't be Yeshua because…
- He shall glorify me:
- for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
- that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Not to mention all the verbs surrounding the pronouns that invariably show the Holy Spirit is a person that Speaks, hears, comforts, leads, teaches, glorifys, recieves, takes, shows, strengthens, gives power, gives life, testifys of Jesus, can be grieved, lied to, and blasphemed, and create and on and on.
If you would like I have a list of the verbs and their definitions and how many times the verbs were translated in relation to a person or persons and not an “it” or impersonal force or power!
Blessings WJ
Keith,
The spirit receives those personal thoughts from the mind and transmits those personal thoughts. The spirit is not a person but a part of the person. God communicates through His Spirit within us. His Spirit within us receives from the mind of God and the mind of Christ and conveys to us what is received.If the spirit comes from a man and is understood by a translator as a male person itself (like trini
tarians do), instead of a personal part of a person, they might translate the neuter word with a male pronoun. So, I think that is the reason the neuter word, Spirit, is referred to as the pronoun “he.” I wouldn't build a case around the pronouns. For instance if the word 'doctor' is a male noun, that doesn't mean that the doctor is a male.That which the spirit of God or the spirit of a person receives (the thoughts of God or the person or the power of God) can, when transmitted (communicated or given) to another individual, bring comfort or wisdom or power. The spirit is very personal and not impersonal but it is not a person. The spirit is personal because it holds the personal, intimate thoughts OF an individual. My spirit within me holds my most intimate thoughts but it is not the source of those thoughts…that would be my mind (soul maybe). My spirit is personal, it contains my thoughts but not your thoughts unless you convey them to me. My spirit is personal to me but not personal to you and therefore, my spirit is impersonal to you.
So, the Father's mind is the source of the thoughts and His Spirit is that which receives the thoughts and conveys the thoughts (or power). His Spirit does not initiate the thoughts but instead receives or takes the thoughts that is received or 'heard' and passes them on. His Spirit is an intimate PART of God. A spirit cannot speak on its own because it doesn't think, it is not the source of the thought. It receives the thought.
My opinion,
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2009,15:14) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2009,13:01) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2009,12:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 10 2009,18:27) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 08 2009,02:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 08 2009,02:40) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 08 2009,02:28) Keith,
The spirit of a person is not the person, it is a part of a person. A person is made up of a mind, body, and a spirit. The spirit is not the body, the spirit is not the mind, the spirit is the spirit. It really can be simple.The spirit of God is part of God but not every part of God. The spirit of man is part of man but not every part of man. God can live in us how…by His spirit living in us not by His entire being living in us. God is in heaven.
One Father, One Son, united in spirit with many believers.
Kathi
KathiNot so. The Spirit is the man! We are Spirit beings like the Father, who has a soul and lives in a body.
It is our Spirit that is the new creation or new man that is who we are, born again by the Spirit!
My Spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior is the same as saying I rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 08 2009,02:28) The spirit of God is part of God but not every part of God. Are there scriptures that says the Spirit of God is part of God but not every part of God? Please show me!
Sounds like more extra-Biblical termonology to me!
WJ
Here is scripture for you Keith:1 Cor 2:10-12
10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
NASUI'm off to bed…your confusion has been keeping me up too late
Kathi
Hi KathiCan you show me how the Spirit of God in those passages is “A” part of God and not equal to God?
These scriptures say no man knows the thoughts of God, but the Spirit does. I am in agreement that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. But he is equal to the Father, for the Father does nothing apart from the Spirit does he?
Jesus said all things were given to him and the Spirit which you are claiming is the personal Spirit of the Father is subservient to him and takes from him (Jesus) and gives to us.
You still havn't explained how if the Spirit is the personal Spirit of the Father, how he is subservient to him, (Jesus)?
WJ
Hi Keith,
If something is part of somebody we use the word “of.” The genitive case reflects possession and usually shows us who or what owns the possession. The one who owns the possession is not the possession itself but merely the one who owns the possession. The spirit within us is only a part of us. For instance, my spirit does not include say…my blood which is also a part of me. My spirit within me is personal and contains my thoughts and emotions. I don't think that my spirit thinks my thoughts but more like receives my thoughts from my mind which is maybe my soul…I don't know for sure, these are just what I perceive. I believe that my spirit and soul go on after my blood stops flowing. My blood will cease to exist someday, my spirit and soul will continue. Therefore, my spirit is not me, it is a part of me…a possession that I control in part, with my mind, and God controls it also. Notice, I did not say “God controls her.”Regarding the question about the Spirit of God being “subservient” as you say, to Jesus…refresh my memory as to what passage you are referring to.
Thanks,
Kathi
Hi KathiHere are the scriptures…
Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.It can't be the Father because…
- for he shall not speak of himself
- but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:
- that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
It can't be Yeshua because…
- He shall glorify me:
- for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
- that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Not to mention all the verbs surrounding the pronouns that invariably show the Holy Spirit is a person that Speaks, hears, comforts, leads, teaches, glorifys, recieves, takes, shows, strengthens, gives power, gives life, testifys of Jesus, can be grieved, lied to, and blasphemed, and create and on and on.
If you would like I have a list of the verbs and their definitions and how many times the verbs were translated in relation to a person or persons and not an “it” or impersonal force or power!
Blessings WJ
Keith,
The spirit receives those personal thoughts from the mind and transmits those personal thoughts. The spirit is not a person but a part of the person. God communicates through His Spirit within us. His Spirit within u
s receives from the mind of God and the mind of Christ and conveys to us what is received.If the spirit comes from a man and is understood by a translator as a male person itself (like trinitarians do), instead of a personal part of a person, they might translate the neuter word with a male pronoun. So, I think that is the reason the neuter word, Spirit, is referred to as the pronoun “he.” I wouldn't build a case around the pronouns. For instance if the word 'doctor' is a male noun, that doesn't mean that the doctor is a male.
That which the spirit of God or the spirit of a person receives (the thoughts of God or the person or the power of God) can, when transmitted (communicated or given) to another individual, bring comfort or wisdom or power. The spirit is very personal and not impersonal but it is not a person. The spirit is personal because it holds the personal, intimate thoughts OF an individual. My spirit within me holds my most intimate thoughts but it is not the source of those thoughts…that would be my mind (soul maybe). My spirit is personal, it contains my thoughts but not your thoughts unless you convey them to me. My spirit is personal to me but not personal to you and therefore, my spirit is impersonal to you.
So, the Father's mind is the source of the thoughts and His Spirit is that which receives the thoughts and conveys the thoughts (or power). His Spirit does not initiate the thoughts but instead receives or takes the thoughts that is received or 'heard' and passes them on. His Spirit is an intimate PART of God. A spirit cannot speak on its own because it doesn't think, it is not the source of the thought. It receives the thought.
My opinion,
Kathi
Hi KathiSorry that is just more apologetics to explain away the fact that the Spirit is a living being that dwells in us as God, for we are the Temple of God and no “it” or simple power lives in his Body the Church of Jesus Christ!
Tell me how the Spirit which you say cannot think, can be grieved? How can the Spirit which you say cannot think can Love? How can the Spirit which you say cannot think knows the deep things of God?
How can a Spirit which cannot think, hear and speak?
How can a Spirit that cannot think be Blasphemed?
How can the Spirit which you say cannot think pray in us with groanings that cannot be uttered?
WJ
Hi Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2009,15:14) So, the Father's mind is the source of the thoughts and His Spirit is that which receives the thoughts and conveys the thoughts (or power). His Spirit does not initiate the thoughts but instead receives or takes the thoughts that is received or 'heard' and passes them on. His Spirit is an intimate PART of God. A spirit cannot speak on its own because it doesn't think, it is not the source of the thought. It receives the thought.
Ok you say that the Spirit recieves or takes the thoughts of God and passes them on.How is that done if the Spirit is not a living being?
So if what you say is true then the Father God according to John 16:13-15 is hearing what to say and taking from Jesus and showing it unto us.
In other words the Father is subject to the Son?
WJ
Hi Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2009,15:14) So, I think that is the reason the neuter word, Spirit, is referred to as the pronoun “he.” I wouldn't build a case around the pronouns. For instance if the word 'doctor' is a male noun, that doesn't mean that the doctor is a male.
So what does that prove? The Father does not have gender either, right?What about this word then…?
But when the “Comforter (paraklētos)” is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: John 15:26
This is the same word that is used for Jesus here…
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an “advocate (paraklētos)” with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1
Strong's G3875 – paraklētos “masculine noun”
1) summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid
a) one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
b) one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor
1) of Christ in his exaltation at God's right hand, pleading with God the Father for the pardon of our sins
c) in the widest sense, a helper, succourer, aider, assistant
1) of the Holy Spirit destined to take the place of Christ with the apostles (after his ascension to the Father), to lead them to a deeper knowledge of the gospel truth, and give them divine strength needed to enable them to undergo trials and persecutions on behalf of the divine kingdom
Is Jesus a living being or a person?
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you “another” “Comforter (paraklētos)” , that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16
Jesus clearly teaches that he would send “another Comforter” advacate, helper, one that would be with us forever!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2009,08:43) Hi Kathi Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2009,15:14) So, I think that is the reason the neuter word, Spirit, is referred to as the pronoun “he.” I wouldn't build a case around the pronouns. For instance if the word 'doctor' is a male noun, that doesn't mean that the doctor is a male.
So what does that prove? The Father does not have gender either, right?What about this word then…?
But when the “Comforter (paraklētos)” is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: John 15:26
This is the same word that is used for Jesus here…
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an “advocate (paraklētos)” with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1
Strong's G3875 – paraklētos “masculine noun”
1) summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid
a) one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
b) one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor
1) of Christ in his exaltation at God's right hand, pleading with God the Father for the pardon of our sins
c) in the widest sense, a helper, succourer, aider, assistant
1) of the Holy Spirit destined to take the place of Christ with the apostles (after his ascension to the Father), to lead them to a deeper knowledge of the gospel truth, and give them divine strength needed to enable them to undergo trials and persecutions on behalf of the divine kingdom
Is Jesus a living being or a person?
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you “another” “Comforter (paraklētos)” , that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16
Jesus clearly teaches that he would send “another Comforter” advacate, helper, one that would be with us forever!
WJ
WJMany Muslims take your position saying this is proof that Muhammad's coming was foretold.
In-fact everything you wrote goes along with this belief.
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