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G,
I am pleased that you see me as a parrot of scripture.
Rather the words of God be found in my mouth than my own.Nick……….True but a parrot doesn't know what he is talking about thats the problem, My point was that anyone can quote scripture as all do , but not all understand what they are quoting. I would rather Know one word in scripture with understand the be able to quote the whole bible from Genesis to Revelations without understanding. Any way I still love you brother, just don't agree with much of what you say, not that everything you say is wrong through.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………gene
DK………..there is another problem with the word (Existed) referencing a Past tense, Yet in the Greek it is (Existing) Present tense. Jesus even now does not desire to be equal with GOD , By robbing God of His Glory but takes on a servants roll.
Isa 52:13…> Behold my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.
Isa 53:11….> He shall see the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his (Knowledge) shall my righteous (Servant) justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Nothing hear shows a Past reinstated existence, Jesus (Now) exists in the nature of GOD, and still acts in the capacity of a servant howbeit a highely exalted one. Remember DK Jesus appears as a slain Lamb even Now as revelations shows Him to be. Slain because He emptied out His soul to the obedience of GOD even unto death, Truly a faithful Servant. IMO
peace and love to you and yours brother……………………………………gene
G,
If you do not understand scripture without adding to it you would be wiser to follow the advice of Paul to Timothy and devote time to the public reading of scripture rather than offering your smorgasbord.Chances are Paul was referring to the Jewish practice of men,not women, reading scriptures in the synagogue. Jesus himself is recorded as doing it on at least one case. It sounds like the early churches also followed that practice. I know when Jesus did that he also interpreted the scripture he read.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2009,14:20) Hi KW,
Timothy was greek was he not?
Timothy is a half Greek and half Jew according to Acts. Paul circumcised him because his mother was a Jew as Jewish tradition regards Jewishness as passing through the mother's side. Still it seems some Jewish practices also were brought into the early Christian church. Scriptural reading and the ban on women reading them seems to be one. Paul was pretty adamant about the later even extending it to prophecy and teachings.Quote (kerwin @ April 09 2009,01:38) T8 wrote: Quote He existed in the form of God and emptied himself and became a man/Adam.
So that is where you sound like you are saying Jesus is a deity and in the Hebrew religion there is only one Deity.
I am not saying it, scripture is saying it. Your argument is not with me, but scripture in this case.Philippians 2:6-11 (New American Standard Bible)
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.Philippians 2:6-11 (King James Version)
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:Philippians 2:6-11 (New International Version)
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.T8 wrote:
Quote I am not saying it, scripture is saying it. Your argument is not with me, but scripture in this case.
You might want to consider your interpretation because the Hebrews went by scripture where it clearly states there is no god besides the Father. We know that God is not confused so His words do contradict one another.
Deuteronomy 32:39(NIV) reads:
Quote “See now that I myself am He!
There is no god besides me.
I put to death and I bring to life,
I have wounded and I will heal,
and no one can deliver out of my hand.and
Deuteronomy 32:39(King James Version) reads:
Quote See now that I, even I, am he,
and there is no god with me:
I kill, and I make alive;
I wound, and I heal:
neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.and
Deuteronomy 32:39(New American Standard Version) reads:
Quote See now that I, I am He,
And there is no god besides Me;
It is I who put to death and give life
I have wounded and it is I who heal,
And there is no one who can deliver from My hand.If you a saying Jesus is a god of any type then it is clear your disagreement is with God and He clearly states there is no other god but He. If you are not saying Jesus is a god of any type then what are you saying he is?
Hebrew 1:5 For which of the Angels did He ever say ” You are my Son Today I have begotten you.”
And again
I will be to a Him a Father and He shall be my Son.”
verse 6 But when He again brings His FIRSTBORN INTO THE WORLD HE SAYSVERSE 8 “yOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER……ETC.
God our Father is calling His Son God. You should understand that God is a title, there are many Gods, but only a Almighy God. And both the Father and the Son have names.
Peace and Love IreneCindy(Irene) wrote:
Quote God our Father is calling His Son God. You should understand that God is a title, there are many Gods, but only a Almighty God. And both the Father and the Son have names.
I have no difficulty understanding that God is a title that is applied to those who are not deities but there are some that seem to think that “form” as used in Philippians 2 is speaking of being a deity and not just a title. I am just pointing out that it cannot mean being a deity as there is only one God. I point out that “form” of God that God desires us to be is to be like Him in true righteousness and holiness and we know Jesus did that in full.
I have to come in here again and support t8 in His understand of that Jesus is the firstborn of all creatiom. The Scriptures are clear and any other in terpetaition is false and am insult to the Son of God, who made all things be the power of God the Father.
Col. 1:15-17
Rev. 3:14
Proverbs 8:20-25
Please don't ignore. Jesus was much, much more then a mere Human. He emptied Himself for us to become our perfect sacrifies, so we can have eternal live. It is a gift from God by Faith in Jesus Christ.
John 17:5 ” And now O Father, glorify Me together wth Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”Colossians 1:15(NIV) reads:
Quote He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
So why do people think this is speaking of the old creation when we are told over and over again that Jesus is the firstborn of the new creation?
Colossians 1:18(NIV) reads:
Quote And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
And
Romans 8:29(NIV) reads:
Quote For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
And
Revelations 1:5(NIV) reads:
Quote Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
I cross posted this in Proverbs 16:4 with Colossians 1:17 of Scriptural and Biblical Doctrine as the interpretation of Colossians 1 seems to be at question in both threads.
Cindy (Irene) wrote:
Quote Please don't ignore. Jesus was much, much more then a mere Human.
Jesus is a human being just like we are but unlike us he has never sinned because he has always believed in the power, love, knowledge, and overall goodness of our God and his God.
Hebrews 4:15(NIV) reads:
Quote For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.
God crowned Jesus King of everything in heaven and on earth so even the angels now pay him homage.
What an honor to a mere man that God created a little lower than the angels and then raised up to that high position and how humble Jesus is to be a servant of us all by choosing to die on the cross that we to may come to know God as he knows God.
Irene…………the question should be did Jesus actually ever have that glory before his berth or was it a foreordained glory that The Father Had planed For Him, Jesus full well know His purpose and his future glory that was foreordained before the foundation of the earth. Man kind was also foreordained for Glory as Scripture say, “For thou hast made him (man) lower then the angles for the tasting of death (But) hast crowned Him with GLORY and Honor”. Have we received this Glory yet (NO) but we will in the future as scripture says. This is the same with Jesus He did not have the Glory he was ordained for until He recieved it. ” For we do not (NOW) see man crowned with glory and honor , (BUT) what do we (SEE) we see Him who was made lower the the angles (EXACTLY LIKE US) (NOW) crowned with GLORY AND HONOR.” You see it was a foreordained Glory and Jesus had this before He was ever born just like us also. Sis, IMO
Peace and love to you and George……………………………gene
Quote (Gene @ April 11 2009,04:45) Irene…………the question should be did Jesus actually ever have that glory before his berth or was it a foreordained glory that The Father Had planed For Him, Jesus full well know His purpose and his future glory that was foreordained before the foundation of the earth. Man kind was also foreordained for Glory as Scripture say, “For thou hast made him (man) lower then the angles for the tasting of death (But) hast crowned Him with GLORY and Honor”. Have we received this Glory yet (NO) but we will in the future as scripture says. This is the same with Jesus He did not have the Glory he was ordained for until He recieved it. ” For we do not (NOW) see man crowned with glory and honor , (BUT) what do we (SEE) we see Him who was made lower the the angles (EXACTLY LIKE US) (NOW) crowned with GLORY AND HONOR.” You see it was a foreordained Glory and Jesus had this before He was ever born just like us also. Sis, IMO Peace and love to you and George……………………………gene
Gene That Scripture goes with all other Scriptures that explains the preexisting of Jesus.
However you want to interpret those Scriptures any other way then they are written, you are simple wrong. There are to many. If there would be only one maybe I could well maybe they are right.
Col. 1:15-1`17
John 1:1
Rev. 3:14
John 17:5
Proverbs 8:22-25
Also it says that God send His Son into the world etc. So from where did God send His Son……..
IreneQuote (Cindy @ April 11 2009,00:53) Quesrion To what glory did Jesus return that He had with the Father before the wold began?
John 17:5
Hi Georg,
Did he?That is what he asked for but he was given much more.
Now he is one with God in the Spirit and seated at the right hand of God
Cindy(Irene) wrote:
Quote However you want to interpret those Scriptures any other way then they are written, you are simple wrong.
Your choice of wording is incorrect. A better way to say what you appear to mean is that “However if you want to interpret those Scriptures any other way then than God interprets them then you are simple wrong.” The difference is very important because words have flexible meanings and the same sentences can mean different things in different circumstances. You must consider the point of view and intent of the one speaking to correctly interpret a sentence and God is the ultimate originator thus He can tell you what He means. Watch out for the letter of scripture as it has misled many, for it is the spirit which counts. Gene is sharing what he has discovered and it is up to you to test it and see if it comes from God or not. Ask God to lead you to the truth and be sincere in the asking and He will do it for He loves you and will give you good things.
Cindy(Irene) wrote:
Quote There are to many. If there would be only one maybe I could well maybe they are right.
That could merely mean you might have misunderstood more scriptures. Volume does not make right.
Cindy(Irene) wrote:
Quote Also it says that God send His Son into the world etc. So from where did God send His Son…..…
God sent the prophets to Israel. Where did they come from? In some cases they were conceived, born, and lived in Israel when they got their calling. Where did the message the prophets have come from? Did it not come from God? Jesus is the premier of prophets; who has the Spirit of God living within his flesh through his faith unlike the prophets that before Him. Not only what he said but also his actions were sent from God and if we receive and live by the Holy Spirit then we to, will come from God. We can only do that through faith is Jesus our Lord and we will show that faith by obeying his teachings.
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