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Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 20 2009,14:49) Hi Marty,
Simeon saw Him as a “Light of revelation” even as a child.Luke 2:25-32
25 And there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon; and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel; and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ. 27 And he came in the Spirit into the temple; and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to carry out for Him the custom of the Law, 28 then he took Him into his arms, and blessed God, and said,
29 “Now Lord, You are releasing Your bond-servant to depart in peace,
According to Your word;
30 For my eyes have seen Your salvation,
31 Which You have prepared in the presence of all peoples,
32 A LIGHT OF REVELATION TO THE GENTILES,
And the glory of Your people Israel.”
NASULU
Hi LU:Yes, Simeon saw him as a light of revelation to the gentiles, but he was not that until his ministry.
God Bless
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 19 2009,23:18) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 20 2009,14:49) Hi Marty,
Simeon saw Him as a “Light of revelation” even as a child.Luke 2:25-32
25 And there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon; and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel; and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ. 27 And he came in the Spirit into the temple; and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to carry out for Him the custom of the Law, 28 then he took Him into his arms, and blessed God, and said,
29 “Now Lord, You are releasing Your bond-servant to depart in peace,
According to Your word;
30 For my eyes have seen Your salvation,
31 Which You have prepared in the presence of all peoples,
32 A LIGHT OF REVELATION TO THE GENTILES,
And the glory of Your people Israel.”
NASULU
Hi LU:Yes, Simeon saw him as a light of revelation to the gentiles, but he was not that until his ministry.
God Bless
Marty,
Simeon saw the “Light of Revelation” there as a baby, he didn't say that he saw what will become the “Light of Revelation.”The “Light” has been around since day one, when the Light is perceived is different for everyone. For example, Saul on the road to Tarsus didn't perceive the light till it blinded him on the road to Damascus even though the Light had been shining before that.
LU
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 20 2009,15:30) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 19 2009,23:18) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 20 2009,14:49) Hi Marty,
Simeon saw Him as a “Light of revelation” even as a child.Luke 2:25-32
25 And there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon; and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel; and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ. 27 And he came in the Spirit into the temple; and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to carry out for Him the custom of the Law, 28 then he took Him into his arms, and blessed God, and said,
29 “Now Lord, You are releasing Your bond-servant to depart in peace,
According to Your word;
30 For my eyes have seen Your salvation,
31 Which You have prepared in the presence of all peoples,
32 A LIGHT OF REVELATION TO THE GENTILES,
And the glory of Your people Israel.”
NASULU
Hi LU:Yes, Simeon saw him as a light of revelation to the gentiles, but he was not that until his ministry.
God Bless
Marty,
Simeon saw the “Light of Revelation” there as a baby, he didn't say that he saw what will become the “Light of Revelation.”The “Light” has been around since day one, when the Light is perceived is different for everyone. For example, Saul on the road to Tarsus didn't perceive the light till it blinded him on the road to Damascus even though the Light had been shining before that.
LU
Hi LU:I see this a prophetic just as there are many scriptures which prophesy regarding Jesus such as Isaiah 53 for example.
A light unto the gentiles:
Quote Isa 9:1 Nevertheless the dimness [shall] not [be] such as [was] in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict [her by] the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations. Isa 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
Love in Christ,
MartyHello all,
I just wanted to say something about this passage:Heb 1:5
5 For to which of the angels did He ever say,
“YOU ARE MY SON,
TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU”?And again,
” I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM
AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME”?
NASUThis is not declaring that before this, Jesus wasn't the Son of God. This is declaring Jesus was then the Son with power since He won the victory and has risen from the dead.
Rom 1:1-4
Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
NKJVWe all know that God told men that Jesus was His son before His death and resurrection as we see in these verses:
Luke 3:21-22
And as he was praying, heaven was opened 22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”
(from New International Version)Luke 9:34-35
35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”LU
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 20 2009,00:04) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 20 2009,15:30) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 19 2009,23:18) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 20 2009,14:49) Hi Marty,
Simeon saw Him as a “Light of revelation” even as a child.Luke 2:25-32
25 And there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon; and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel; and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ. 27 And he came in the Spirit into the temple; and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to carry out for Him the custom of the Law, 28 then he took Him into his arms, and blessed God, and said,
29 “Now Lord, You are releasing Your bond-servant to depart in peace,
According to Your word;
30 For my eyes have seen Your salvation,
31 Which You have prepared in the presence of all peoples,
32 A LIGHT OF REVELATION TO THE GENTILES,
And the glory of Your people Israel.”
NASULU
Hi LU:Yes, Simeon saw him as a light of revelation to the gentiles, but he was not that until his ministry.
God Bless
Marty,
Simeon saw the “Light of Revelation” there as a baby, he didn't say that he saw what will become the “Light of Revelation.”The “Light” has been around since day one, when the Light is perceived is different for everyone. For example, Saul on the road to Tarsus didn't perceive the light till it blinded him on the road to Damascus even though the Light had been shining before that.
LU
Hi LU:I see this a prophetic just as there are many scriptures which prophesy regarding Jesus such as Isaiah 53 for example.
A light unto the gentiles:
Quote Isa 9:1 Nevertheless the dimness [shall] not [be] such as [was] in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict [her by] the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations. Isa 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,
And I see this as prophecy fulfilled. I believe that Simeon saw the prophecy fulfilled also.
LUQuote (Lightenup @ Feb. 20 2009,16:49) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 20 2009,00:04) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 20 2009,15:30) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 19 2009,23:18) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 20 2009,14:49) Hi Marty,
Simeon saw Him as a “Light of revelation” even as a child.Luke 2:25-32
25 And there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon; and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel; and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ. 27 And he came in the Spirit into the temple; and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to carry out for Him the custom of the Law, 28 then he took Him into his arms, and blessed God, and said,
29 “Now Lord, You are releasing Your bond-servant to depart in peace,
According to Your word;
30 For my eyes have seen Your salvation,
31 Which You have prepared in the presence of all peoples,
32 A LIGHT OF REVELATION TO THE GENTILES,
And the glory of Your people Israel.”
NASULU
Hi LU:Yes, Simeon saw him as a light of revelation to the gentiles, but he was not that until his ministry.
God Bless
Marty,
Simeon saw the “Light of Revelation” there as a baby, he didn't say that he saw what will become the “Light of Revelation.”The “Light” has been around since day one, when the Light is perceived is different for everyone. For example, Saul on the road to Tarsus didn't perceive the light till it blinded him on the road to Damascus even though the Light had been shining before that.
LU
Hi LU:I see this a prophetic just as there are many scriptures which prophesy regarding Jesus such as Isaiah 53 for example.
A light unto the gentiles:
Quote Isa 9:1 Nevertheless the dimness [shall] not [be] such as [was] in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict [her by] the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations. Isa 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,
And I see this as prophecy fulfilled. I believe that Simeon saw the prophecy fulfilled also.
LU
No Lu, I can't agree because at the time that Simeon was rehearsing this Jesus was a baby and had not begun his ministry neither to the Jews nor to the gentiles.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (SEEKING @ Feb. 20 2009,12:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 19 2009,00:38)
Why didn’t the writers of the NT scriptures who were aware that YHWH was the creator write…“God alone, by himself created all things through Jesus”?
Instead they say…
Col 1:6
FOR BY HIM (YESHUA) WERE ALL THINGS CREATED, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: “[ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY HIM, AND FOR HIM:(By him and FOR him!)Context indicates they were speking of Jesus not Yeshua:
Col 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities–all things were created through him and for him.
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.
Joh 1:15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.'”)
Joh 1:16 And from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”?
Heb 1:6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God's angels worship him.”
Heb 1:7 Of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire.”
Heb 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
Heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
Heb 1:10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;Hi seeking!
Quote (SEEKING @ Feb. 20 2009,12:18)
Context indicates they were speking of Jesus not Yeshua:
Who do you think Yeshua is?WJ
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 20 2009,11:45) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 19 2009,18:28) Hi Marty. Jesus said “Before Abraham, I am”. He was saying that he existed before Abraham. I am means to exist. He is the root and offspring of David.
Colossians 1:17
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.Jude 1:25
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.So to God be glory through Jesus Christ before all ages.
Q: If Jesus isn't the firstborn of all creation, who was?
Hi t8:Jesus did exist in the heart of the Father. And God knew at the precise time he would conceive him in the womb of Mary. It is not like you and I sowing our seed. Jesus said: “Abraham rejoiced to see my day and he saw it and was glad”.
As for Jesus being the root and the offspring of David, the definition is as follows:
Quote Definition:
1.a root
2.that which like a root springs from a root, a sprout, shoot
3.metaph. offspring, progenyAnd so, I'll leave it to you to determine what it means in this scripture. It could just read I am a descendant and the offspring of David.
Colossians 1:17
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.This is explained by the following verse:
Quote Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him Again, he existed in the heart of the Father before he brought the world into existence.
Then relative to the following verse and your comment:
Quote Jude 1:25
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.So to God be glory through Jesus Christ before all ages
This was manifest when Jesus was resurrected from the dead and stated that “all power and authority has been given unto me in heaven and in earth”. This day was forseen by God before he brought the world into existence.
You ask:
Quote Q: If Jesus isn't the firstborn of all creation, who was? I guess that would be Cain, but Jesus was the firstborn of God of all creation.
Quote Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Quote Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty……….Your have it right, you have come out of the false teaching of the Preexistence of Jesus, and also the false teaching of the trinity. Peter Said it right , Jesus was (FOREORDAINED) BUT WAS (MANIFESTED)= (came into existence), IN OUR TIME. It's just that simple, trying to make Jesus something other then that, is pure conjecture on the part of those who push this false teaching. If they would only read and think about what Martain has written they might begin to question these false teachings of Jesus' preexistence. Again you have it right Marty.love and peace to you and yours……………………….gene
Marty,
Jesus was the light even as a baby as Simeon declared, he was also a Savior and Lord and Christ even the day He was born. He did not become these things after His baptism in the Jordan when He started His ministry, He was these things even as a baby. It was not His humble attitude as He grew as a man or His obedience that made Him these things. He already was these things. He was also God's Son as a baby, He didn't become God's Son, He was God's Son. His ministry or death and resurrection didn't make Him Christ the Lord, or Savior, or Redeemer, or Son of God for He already was these things even as the angel declared to the shepherds the night of His birth in the body that was prepared for Him.Luke 1:35
35 The angel answered and said to her, ” The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
NASUHe did not become the Son of God, He was the Son of God. Then, below you will see that He didn't become a Savior, He didn't become the Christ, and He didn't become the Lord after His ministry or resurrection. He was these things even from His birth through Mary.
Luke 2:9-13
10 But the angel said to them, ” Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people; 11 for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. 12 ” This will be a sign for you: you will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”
NASUBlessings,
LUQuote (Lightenup @ Feb. 21 2009,14:37) Marty,
Jesus was the light even as a baby as Simeon declared, he was also a Savior and Lord and Christ even the day He was born. He did not become these things after His baptism in the Jordan when He started His ministry, He was these things even as a baby. It was not His humble attitude as He grew as a man or His obedience that made Him these things. He already was these things. He was also God's Son as a baby, He didn't become God's Son, He was God's Son. His ministry or death and resurrection didn't make Him Christ the Lord, or Savior, or Redeemer, or Son of God for He already was these things even as the angel declared to the shepherds the night of His birth in the body that was prepared for Him.Luke 1:35
35 The angel answered and said to her, ” The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
NASUHe did not become the Son of God, He was the Son of God. Then, below you will see that He didn't become a Savior, He didn't become the Christ, and He didn't become the Lord after His ministry or resurrection. He was these things even from His birth through Mary.
Luke 2:9-13
10 But the angel said to them, ” Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people; 11 for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. 12 ” This will be a sign for you: you will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”
NASUBlessings,
LU
Hi LU:He was conceived of the Holy Ghost and born of the virgin Mary and without question he was “The Only Begotten Son of God and His Christ at that time.
He was born into the world for the purpose of the salvation of God's children, but you are telling me that he did not develop from childhood into maturity and did not have to be anointed by God and sent into the world to preach the gospel, and to obey God even unto death on the cross in order to fulfill his mission?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Feb. 20 2009,23:16) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 21 2009,14:37) Marty,
Jesus was the light even as a baby as Simeon declared, he was also a Savior and Lord and Christ even the day He was born. He did not become these things after His baptism in the Jordan when He started His ministry, He was these things even as a baby. It was not His humble attitude as He grew as a man or His obedience that made Him these things. He already was these things. He was also God's Son as a baby, He didn't become God's Son, He was God's Son. His ministry or death and resurrection didn't make Him Christ the Lord, or Savior, or Redeemer, or Son of God for He already was these things even as the angel declared to the shepherds the night of His birth in the body that was prepared for Him.Luke 1:35
35 The angel answered and said to her, ” The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
NASUHe did not become the Son of God, He was the Son of God. Then, below you will see that He didn't become a Savior, He didn't become the Christ, and He didn't become the Lord after His ministry or resurrection. He was these things even from His birth through Mary.
Luke 2:9-13
10 But the angel said to them, ” Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people; 11 for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. 12 ” This will be a sign for you: you will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”
NASUBlessings,
LU
Hi LU:He was conceived of the Holy Ghost and born of the virgin Mary and without question he was “The Only Begotten Son of God and His Christ at that time.
He was born into the world for the purpose of the salvation of God's children, but you are telling me that he did not develop from childhood into maturity and did not have to be anointed by God and sent into the world to preach the gospel, and to obey God even unto death on the cross in order to fulfill his mission?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,
I dare say that His “missions” continue to this day and will continue throughout eternity. However, He has crossed off many things on His “to do list” and has accomplished great things and all by the plan and power of His Heavenly Father.I am saying simply what the angels tell us. Which is that He did not have to accomplish anything as a man before He was Lord, Christ, Savior, Son, Light, etc. He was all that even when He entered the world as a baby.
LU
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 21 2009,15:33) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 20 2009,23:16) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 21 2009,14:37) Marty,
Jesus was the light even as a baby as Simeon declared, he was also a Savior and Lord and Christ even the day He was born. He did not become these things after His baptism in the Jordan when He started His ministry, He was these things even as a baby. It was not His humble attitude as He grew as a man or His obedience that made Him these things. He already was these things. He was also God's Son as a baby, He didn't become God's Son, He was God's Son. His ministry or death and resurrection didn't make Him Christ the Lord, or Savior, or Redeemer, or Son of God for He already was these things even as the angel declared to the shepherds the night of His birth in the body that was prepared for Him.Luke 1:35
35 The angel answered and said to her, ” The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
NASUHe did not become the Son of God, He was the Son of God. Then, below you will see that He didn't become a Savior, He didn't become the Christ, and He didn't become the Lord after His ministry or resurrection. He was these things even from His birth through Mary.
Luke 2:9-13
10 But the angel said to them, ” Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people; 11 for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. 12 ” This will be a sign for you: you will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”
NASUBlessings,
LU
Hi LU:He was conceived of the Holy Ghost and born of the virgin Mary and without question he was “The Only Begotten Son of God and His Christ at that time.
He was born into the world for the purpose of the salvation of God's children, but you are telling me that he did not develop from childhood into maturity and did not have to be anointed by God and sent into the world to preach the gospel, and to obey God even unto death on the cross in order to fulfill his mission?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,
I dare say that His “missions” continue to this day and will continue throughout eternity. However, He has crossed off many things on His “to do list” and has accomplished great things and all by the plan and power of His Heavenly Father.I am saying simply what the angels tell us. Which is that He did not have to accomplish anything as a man before He was Lord, Christ, Savior, Son, Light, etc. He was all that even when He entered the world as a baby.
LU
Ok. Whatever you say.Marty,
Whatever I say, huh…well that's the right attitude!
I will call it a day for now.
Sleep well Marty,
LUQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 20 2009,16:38) Who do you think Yeshua is? WJ
Col 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,In this verse He is the “deliverer”.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
In this verse He is the “image” reflected by Jesus.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities–all things were created through him and for him.
In this verse He is the one working “through” Jesus.
Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”?
Heb 1:6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God's angels worship him.”
Heb 1:7 Of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire.”
Heb 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
Heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” Heb 1:10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;In these verses He is the speaker who said all these things of Jesus.
Overall, Yeshua is the one who's will Jesus follows.
Quote (SEEKING @ Feb. 22 2009,00:23) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 20 2009,16:38) Who do you think Yeshua is? WJ
Col 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,In this verse He is the “deliverer”.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
In this verse He is the “image” reflected by Jesus.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities–all things were created through him and for him.
In this verse He is the one working “through” Jesus.
Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”?
Heb 1:6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God's angels worship him.”
Heb 1:7 Of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire.”
Heb 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
Heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” Heb 1:10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;In these verses He is the speaker who said all these things of Jesus.
Overall, Yeshua is the one who's will Jesus follows.
Hi Seeking.I think you had better study the name “Yeshua” because it is not God the Father.
Click here or Here for some info that may help and then do a google search.
Blessings WJ
PS How long have you been a Christian if you don't mind me asking?
Hi Gene
Quote (Gene @ Feb. 20 2009,12:44)
All who try to get Jesus into a preexistent state have to always force the text to accomplishment their theologies.
And just what is it that you and the “Unitarians” are doing?Would Jesus tell us that he came down from heaven if this is not the case?
There is no wiggle room in the following scriptures. Jesus was speaking in plain English. (Well you know what I mean)
Jn 6:38
For *I CAME DOWN* FROM HEAVEN, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.Jn 6:41
The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, “I am the bread which *came down from heaven*“.Jn 6:42
And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, *I came down* from heaven?Jn 6:51
“I am the living bread which came down from heaven“: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.And to make sure that they fully understood what he was saying, he goes on to say…
Jn 6:
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, “Doth this offend you“?62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man *ASCEND UP WHERE HE WAS BEFORE“?
And what about these…
Heb 10:5
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:Jn 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which *I had with thee* before the world was.You could read these scriptures to a 5 year old and they would come to the same conclusion that Jesus existed before he came in the flesh and came down from heaven.
But of course today just like then, many are offended by his words.
These scriptures do not need any special interpretation!
The writers of the scriptures clearly stated what they heard under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit!
So again, it seems to me you are the one forcing the text.
Blessings!
WJ
WJ………I have never said Jesus did not exist before he came to earth, the question is how he existed, was it literally as a being of some kind , if so show proof, or was it in the Plan and Will and Purpose of the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD. Peter Seems to think Jesus was in the Plan, saying He was FOREORDAINED (BUT) was MANIFESTED in OUR TIME. This is not unusual in scripture, as in the case of Cyrus and Jeremiah, They were also foreordained and later manifested to us. It is very obvious Jesus was foreordained in scripture This is not a point of contention with me. All of us in a sense came down from heaven, because we were all predestined and foreknown by GOD. Why do you want to move Jesus away from your personal identity would be the greater question IMO. If Jesus is not like you and I then we have nothing to do with Him one a Personal level and we really can't say He is exactly as we are, nor can we claim any identity with Him either. Brother Jesus is one of US who GOD the FATHER perfected, just like He can us also. I do not push Christ away from me, I see him as I see myself, That how I am (IN) Him. God the FATHER gave our Brother Jesus to US, as One of US in every way. That is one of the reasons i fully trust Him. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Hi GB
Quote (Gene @ Feb. 22 2009,04:59)
If Jesus is not like you and I then we have nothing to do with Him one a Personal level and we really can't say He is exactly as we are, nor can we claim any identity with Him either.
This is a red herring (a deliberate attempt to change a subject or divert an argument).First of all Gene what about the Prophets and Patriarchs of the Hebrew scriptures? Are you saying that they could not have anything to do with YHWH on a personal level because he wasn’t exacly like them? So you are saying that they could not claim an identity with YHWH? That is a fallacious argument. Jesus said be ye perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect. So just how are we to do that, because according to your theory the Father would have to be exactly like us?
Gene are you like Jesus or ever will be in the following ways?
Jesus is “the bread of life” that brings life to all men. John 6:38
Are you “the bread of Life”?Jesus is the “Great Shephard” who holds all of his sheep in his hands and no man can pluck them out of his hands.
Can you make this claim as “The Great Shephard” will you ever have this power? Can you make the claim that “The Fathers Sheep” are yours?
Jesus is the “door” to the pasture!
Can you make this claim?
Jesus claimed that he gives his sheep “eternal life”. John 10:28
Can you tell others that you can give them “eternal life” or is it that you can tell them how to recieve “eternal life”. Therefore Jesus is more than you and had an advantage over you.
Jesus is the “Baptizer” in the Holy Spirit and fire. Matt 3:11
Can you claim that you “baptized” anyone in the Holy Spirit?
Jesus has the Spirt “witout measure”. John 3:34
Can you ever be filled with the Spirit without measure? Therefore, he had an advantage over you because he had the Spirit “without measure”.
Jesus is the healer! Luke 22:51 Acts 4:10
Can you claim that you healed anyone, or was it Jesus who did the healing?
Jesus lives in every believer. 2 Cor 13:5
Can you claim to live in all believers? Will this ever be so of you? This means that his ontological nature is greater than ours.
Jesus is the one by and for whom all things were created and without him nothing was made that was made. John 1:3
You say that God made all things with Jesus in mind. But can you claim that God made all things with Gene in mind therefore creating all things “through” Gene”? If not then Jesus must in some way be greater and have an advantage over you. Can you say all things were created for you? If not then Jesus is something more and greater than you will ever be.
Jesus said he will be with every believer to the end of the world. Matt 28:20
Can you know or ever make such a claim of power and omnipresence?
Jesus said he was the “Way”, the “Truth” and the “Life”. John 14:6
Can you ever say that you are the “Way”, the “Truth” and the “Life”. If not then in some way Jesus is more than you are.
Jesus said whatever he sees the Father do that he also does. John 5:17, 5:19
Can you make this claim? If not then Jesus was or did more than you and I ever could. Because he does as he sees the Father do and that gives him an advantage over us.
Jesus said the Father had shown him all things and given him all things. John 3:35, John 5:20
Can you now or ever say that the Father has given you all things or shown you all things? If not then Jesus had an advantage over you.
Jesus was/is Lord of the Sabbath! Luke 6:5
Can you say that you are Lord over a created day!
If not then Jesus had an advantage over you.
Jesus said men were to honor him even as they honor the Father. John 5:23
Can you ever make this claim. If not then Jesus is more than you will ever be.
Jesus called all men to himself and said that he would give rest to their souls. Matt 11:28-30
Can you say that you hear the calls and prayers of men and call them to yourself to give them rest?
Jesus claimed that no man can know the Father unless he revealed him to them. Matt 11:27
Can you say no man can know the Father unless you reveal him? If not then he had an advantage over you.
I could go on and on, but as you can see there were many advantages that Jesus had over us and many claims that you and I could never make and if we did then people might say we are claiming to be equal to God.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 22 2009,07:05) Hi GB Quote (Gene @ Feb. 22 2009,04:59)
If Jesus is not like you and I then we have nothing to do with Him one a Personal level and we really can't say He is exactly as we are, nor can we claim any identity with Him either.
This is a red herring (a deliberate attempt to change a subject or divert an argument).First of all Gene what about the Prophets and Patriarchs of the Hebrew scriptures? Are you saying that they could not have anything to do with YHWH on a personal level because he wasn’t exacly like them? So you are saying that they could not claim an identity with YHWH? That is a fallacious argument. Jesus said be ye perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect. So just how are we to do that if according to your theory the Father would have to be exactly like us.
Gene are you like Jesus or ever will be in the following ways?
Jesus is “the bread of life” that brings life to all men. John 6:38
Are you “the bread of Life”?Jesus is the “Great Shephard” who holds all if his sheep in his hands and no man can pluck them out of his hands.
Can you make this claim as “The Great Shephard” will you ever have this power? Can you make the claim that “The Fathers Sheep” are yours?
Jesus is the “door” to the pasture!
Can you make this claim?
Jesus claimed that he gives his sheep “eternal life”. John 10:28
Can you tell others that you can give them “eternal life” or is it that you can tell them how to recieve “eternal life”. Therfore Jesus is more than you and had an advantage over you.
Jesus is the “Baptizer” in the Holy Spirit and fire. Matt 3:11
Can you claim that you “baptized” anyone in the Holy Spirit?
Jesus has the Spirt “witout measure”. John 3:34
Can you ever be filled with the Spirit without measure? Therefore, he had an advantage over you because he had the Spirit “without measur”.
Jesus is the healer! Luke 22:51 Acts 4:10
Can you claim that you healed anyone, or was it Jesus who did the healing?
Jesus lives in every believer. 2 Cor 13:5
Can you claim to live in all believers? Will this ever be so of you? This means that his ontological nature is greater than ours.
Jesus is the one by and for whom all things were created and without him nothing was made that was made. John 1:3
You say that God made all things with Jesus in mind. But can you claim that God made all things with Gene in mind therefore creating all things “through” Gene”? If not then Jesus must in some way be greater and have an advantage over you. Can you say all things were created for you? If not then Jesus is something more and greater than you will ever be.
Jesus said he will be with every believer to the end of the world. Matt 28:20
Can you know or ever make such a claim of power and omnipresence?
Jesus said he was the “Way”, the “Truth” and the “Life”. John 14:6
Can you ever say that you are the “Way”, the “Truth” and the “Life”. If not then in some way Jesus is more than you are.
Jesus said whatever he sees the Father do that he also does. John 5:17, 5:19
Can you make this claim? If not then Jesus was or did more than you and I ever could. Because he oes as he sees the Father do and that gives him an advantage over us.
Jesus said the Father had shown him all things and given him all things. John 3:35, John 5:20
Can you now or ever say that the Father has given you all things or shown you all things? If not then Jesus had an advantage over you.
Jesus was/is Lord of the Sabbath! Luke 6:5
Can you say that you are Lord over a created day!
If not then Jesus had an advantage over you.
Jesus said men were to honor him even as they honor the Father. John 5:23
Can you ever make this claim. If not then Jesus is more than you will ever be.
Jesus called all men to himself and said that he would give rest to their souls. Matt 11:28-30
Can you say that you hear the calls and prayers of men and call them to yourself to give them rest?
Jesus claimed that no man can know the Father unless he revealed him to them. Matt 11:27
Can you say no man can know the Father unless you reveal him? If not then he had an advantage over you.
I could go on and on, but as you can see there were many advantages that Jesus had over us and many claims that you an I could never make and if we did then people might say we are claiming to be equal to God.
WJ
W.J. Good Post and I agree with all.
Peace and Love Irene
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