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Quote (Tiffany @ Jan. 19 2009,17:01) Jodi all that you are doing is given me a bunch of other scriptures but denying which I have written or Georg has.
And I am not going to repeat them. Good luck. Irene
Yes please don't repeat them I have already addressed them before awhile back and you never responded back the way I asked.Don't you GET IT, I have read what you and Georg have said, and I have thought about it. You could at least have the courtesy to do the same. Irene I have taken the time to see your perspective and I understand your perspective, I just don't agree, given ALL the scriptures, that it is the truth. You however, won't even bother to try and understand mine. I find that rude.
You never respond to what I write, you ignore the scriptures I give.
Hi Jodi,
Lk3.2Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word [4487] of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
Number 4487
Transliteration:
rhema {hray'-mah}
Word Origin:
from 4483
TDNT:
6:69,505
Part of Speech:
noun neuter
Usage in the KJV:
word 56, saying 9, thing 3, no thing 3756 1, not tr 1Total: 70
Definition:
that which is or has been uttered by the living voice, thing spoken, word
any sound produced by the voice and having definite meaning
speech, discourse
what one has said
a series of words joined together into a sentence (a declaration of one's mind made in words)
an utterance
a saying of any sort as a message, a narrative
concerning some occurrence
subject matter of speech, thing spoken of
so far forth as it is a matter of narration
so far as it is a matter of command
a matter of dispute, case at lawThe WORD here of course is rhema and not logos.
But John was not sent from heaven.So what is your point?
The word logos is found in the New Testament of the King James 316 times translated as word 218, saying 50, account 8, speech 8, Word (Christ) 7, thing 5, not translated 2, miscellaneous 32.
Hi Jodi,
Yes.
But why offer RHEMA in Lk2?
Or was there another point you were making with that verse?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 19 2009,17:59) Hi Jodi,
Yes.
But why offer RHEMA in Lk2?
Or was there another point you were making with that verse?
I posted Luke 3:2 while Annas and Caiaphas were high priests, the word of God came to John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness. 3 And he went into all the region around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sinsThen I commented, “The word came to John through the Holy Spirit, not through a spirit son.”
The scriptures show me that God's word does not come to man through a pre-existing spirit son, but by the Holy Spirit.
In the beginning was the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit was with God, and was God. Jesus did nothing of himself, what he did was through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit communicates to man the truth of God. The Holy Spirit does many things, one of them is to possess and deliver the word of God.
Hi Nick,
I think my point is that God made the heavens and the earth through His powerful Holy Spirit, not through a pre-existent son. This same Spirit is what brought the word of God to the prophets and the people, whether it be through dreams, burning bushes, or via God's messengers. This same Spirit is what made Jesus the word of God and the image of God. This same Spirit is what raised Jesus from the dead and gave him an immortal body, and it is the same Spirit that will bring all men to righteousness and into immortality, because we are indeed puny little men!
Amen Sis Jodi,
All those are excellent posts on denying another myth called pre-existence of Jesus. Yes, you are right in saying that God's Word is powerful to create everything in this universe but was not a separate person from God as allegedly misunderstood by many Christians and even Jews like Philo.May God bless you with more revelations
Love to you
AdamBefore one begins to understand the workings of the Holy Spirit, one must define Holy Spirit.
Since the scriptures were written by Hebrews, the understanding must come from Hebrew perspective.
Holy = set aside for a special purpose
Spirit = breath or wind.
Genesis tells us that YHWH spoke the universe into existence. From a Hebrew perspective speaking is related closely to the breath. It could be said that God breathed the world into being. Breath is also related to character or soul. So the creation is an expression of the character or God. It is an expression of his motives and intentions.
Man is sourced from God. His body is from the clay of God’s creation (an expression of God himself) and in the image of God. His animation comes directly from the breath of God. It could be said that we are born of the Holy Spirit or the breath set aside for a special purpose.What is man? Does man’s body have animation in and of itself?
In the accounts of Mary’s inpregnation we see that the holy spirit over shadowed her and she was found to be with child of the holy spirit.
So what gives a soul life?
The source of man’s animation and soul is God’s breath.Gen 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
“Being” can also be translated soul.
Even man’s body comes indirectly from God in that it comes from the matter that God created.
Consider these verses. —
Gen 7
21All flesh that moved on the earth perished, birds and cattle and beasts and every swarming thing that swarms upon the earth, and all mankind;22of all that was on the dry land, all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, died.
23Thus He blotted out every living thing that was upon the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky, and they were blotted out from the earth; and only Noah was left, together with those that were with him in the ark.
Job 7
7″Remember that my life is but breath;
My eye will not again see good.Job 27
3For as long as life is in me,
And the breath of God is in my nostrils,Job 33
4″The Spirit of God has made me,
And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
5″Refute me if you can;
Array yourselves before me, take your stand.
6″Behold, I belong to God like you;
I too have been formed out of the clay.
7″Behold, no fear of me should terrify you,
Nor should my pressure weigh heavily on you.Psalms 135
15The idols of the nations are but silver and gold,
The work of man's hands.
16They have mouths, but they do not speak;
They have eyes, but they do not see;
17They have ears, but they do not hear,
Nor is there any breath at all in their mouths.
(no breath in Idols because they are not alive)Isa 42
5Thus says God the LORD,
Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
Who spread out the earth and its offspring,
Who gives breath to the people on it
And spirit to those who walk in it,Eze 37
8And I looked, and behold, sinews were on them, and flesh grew and skin covered them; but there was no breath in them.Rev 11
11But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them.Jesus was given life by the breath of God, just like us.
Quote (Jodi @ Jan. 20 2009,15:03) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 19 2009,17:59) Hi Jodi,
Yes.
But why offer RHEMA in Lk2?
Or was there another point you were making with that verse?
I posted Luke 3:2 while Annas and Caiaphas were high priests, the word of God came to John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness. 3 And he went into all the region around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sinsThen I commented, “The word came to John through the Holy Spirit, not through a spirit son.”
The scriptures show me that God's word does not come to man through a pre-existing spirit son, but by the Holy Spirit.
In the beginning was the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit was with God, and was God. Jesus did nothing of himself, what he did was through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit communicates to man the truth of God. The Holy Spirit does many things, one of them is to possess and deliver the word of God.
The Holy Spirit was with God, and the Holy Spirit became flesh? Not so.
John 1: 14 And the Word became flesh and dwell among us,and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth
verse 15 John bore witness of Him and cried out saying;” This was He of whom I said,”He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.
verse 16 And of His fulness we have all received and grace for grace.
verse 17 For the law was iven through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.The Word became Jesus the firstborn of all creation full of grace cause He came forth from the Father.
verse 18 No one has seen God any time, The only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father He has declared Him.
All this goes along with Co. 1:15-18 and Rev. 3:14
Peace and Love IreneHi Martian,
Just like us the man Jesus Christ lived by his own spirit till reborn from above by the Spirit of God at the Jordan and his own spirit left him at calvary.
We follow him.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 21 2009,06:07) Hi Martian,
Just like us the man Jesus Christ lived by his own spirit till reborn from above by the Spirit of God at the Jordan and his own spirit left him at calvary.
We follow him.
Nick Right on the nose. I agree.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 20 2009,11:07) Hi Martian,
Just like us the man Jesus Christ lived by his own spirit till reborn from above by the Spirit of God at the Jordan and his own spirit left him at calvary.
We follow him.
That is not correct.Jesus spirit was in full force when he went to the wilderness and WAS TEMPTED. This happened right AFTER the Spirit came down to him.
Jesus was given God's powers at that time, and God took him to the wilderness to test him. God beared down on the mind of Jesus to serve the flesh when He made him go 40 days without eating.
The spirit of Jesus was never removed. God's Spirit works in man's spirit so that we do not fulfill the desires of the flesh.
Jesus until he died had to battle against his own spirit against his own will.
John 4:34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work.
Hebrews 2:17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
Right up to the death of Jesus he was like us having a carnal mind that drew to serve his flesh.
Luke 22:40 When He came to the place, He said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.” 41 And He was withdrawn from them about a stone's throw, and He knelt down and prayed, 42 saying, “Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done.” 43 Then an angel appeared to Him from heaven, strengthening Him. 44 And being in agony, He prayed more earnestly. Then His sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
My opinion (for what it's worth)
Jesus did exist in spirit first. He was “firstborn of all creation” (Col.1:15) …15 Who is the Image of the invisible God, Firstborn of every creature,
All else was created by the power of God, “through” Him (Jesus) Col.1:16-17 …for in Him is all created, that in the heavens and that on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created through Him and for Him,
17 and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him.God, by His power, does all through Christ: Eph.1:10 …10 to have an administration of the complement of the eras, to head up all in the Christ — both that in the heavens and that on the earth —
He is also firstborn of the dead (first to be resurrected) Co.1:18 …Who is Sovereign, Firstborn from among the dead,
He is Gods “original creation” (original means 'first') Rev.3:14 …'Now this is saying the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, and God's Creative Original:
He is the Alpha and Omega. Rev.1:8 …8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” is saying the Lord God, Meaning the first and the last, of creation. First created, and the last “at the conssummation” 1Cor.15:24 …24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.
This is my understanding, let me know your opinion on this.
God Bless, Jerry.
Quote (chosenone @ Jan. 22 2009,07:07) My opinion (for what it's worth) Jesus did exist in spirit first. He was “firstborn of all creation” (Col.1:15) …15 Who is the Image of the invisible God, Firstborn of every creature,
All else was created by the power of God, “through” Him (Jesus) Col.1:16-17 …for in Him is all created, that in the heavens and that on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created through Him and for Him,
17 and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him.God, by His power, does all through Christ: Eph.1:10 …10 to have an administration of the complement of the eras, to head up all in the Christ — both that in the heavens and that on the earth —
He is also firstborn of the dead (first to be resurrected) Co.1:18 …Who is Sovereign, Firstborn from among the dead,
He is Gods “original creation” (original means 'first') Rev.3:14 …'Now this is saying the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, and God's Creative Original:
He is the Alpha and Omega. Rev.1:8 …8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” is saying the Lord God, Meaning the first and the last, of creation. First created, and the last “at the conssummation” 1Cor.15:24 …24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.
This is my understanding, let me know your opinion on this.
God Bless, Jerry.
Hi, Jerry I agree with you and if you look at my post, (Tiffany and Cindy) you will find the same Scriptures there. And yet Jodi and Gen will disagree with you big time.
Peace and Love IreneHi Jodi,
You say
“Jesus spirit was in full force when he went to the wilderness and WAS TEMPTED. This happened right AFTER the Spirit came down to him. ”The spirit of Jesus the man was in him before the anointing or he would have been dead.
Jas2
26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.At the Jordan the Spirit came down on him like a dove.
Then empowered by the Spirit of God he went to be tested by Satan in the desert.Lk4
1And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,2Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.
Like us in him he had his own spirit and the Spirit of God
Rom8
16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:Hi Jodi,
No doubt his own will had to submit to the will of God.
Satan awaited his opportunity to take his life as he was burdened with the sin of the world.
He would not have done so if he knew the hidden wisdom of God as that released Jesus to continue ministry through millions.
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