Preexistence

[Proclaimer]

The angels might partake of divine nature, I don't know. They certainly are not flesh beings or men and it says somewhere that we will become like the angels and that a spirit body follows the flesh one.

However scripture does say that we can partake in divine nature.

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

[Not3in1]

Adam,
You didn't answer my questions, bro.
😉
Mandy

[Not3in1]

A “spirit body” that sounds sooooooooooooo good right now as my arthritis is kicking up with the new rainfall.

[gollamudi]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 29 2008,18:43)

Adam, You didn't answer my questions, bro. 😉 Mandy

Hi Sis,
I have already answered your question indirectly that my son will be like me.. yes, but God's son should be like Him..also yes.

I was trying to tell you that Jesus, you and me will be God's children (literally) only with God's nature that is Spirit since God is Spirit in nature not any flesh and blood as you often claim God begat a flesh and blood son, Jesus. This part I don't accept with you. Jesus is the Son of God not because he was born as flesh and blood but was born in Spirit of God.

Hope you will appreciate this.
Love to you
Adam

[GeneBalthrop]

Mandy……..i tend to agree with Adam also on this point too. Remember Mandy flesh profits nothing, it's the spirit of God that does, And again the Kingdom of GOD comes not with observation but is inside you.

Mandy, i am beginning to get some arthritis pains also in my joints at times, this getting old is for the birds, My mother had it bad at times she would not even turn on the AC because of it. She took buffering of Hers. They say the reason it flares up when it gets rainy is because the weight of the atmosphere become heaver and puts more pressure on the joints. I hope God will help you with it sis.

Love to you and yours…………….gene

[Not3in1]

Hi Adam,

Quote

I have already answered your question indirectly that my son will be like me.. yes, but God's son should be like Him..also yes.

This is not an indirect statement but quite an emphatic one – that your son is like you! In what way? He is human, obviously.

You say, “God's son should be like him….also yes.” If God is NOT HUMAN, what should his son be? The simple answer is, NOT HUMAN.

Quote

God's nature that is Spirit since God is Spirit in nature not any flesh and blood as you often claim God begat a flesh and blood son, Jesus.

Are you forgetting Mary? Did she contribute nothing?

There seem to be two camps where Mary is concerned: either she A) contributed nothing and Jesus is 100% God or B) she contributed everything and Jesus is 100% man.

No in-between? No natural conception? Hmmm

Quote

Hope you will appreciate this.

I most certainly appreciate your view, brother. Unfortunately, there are many views to take on the nature of Christ…..take your pick!

Love,
Mandy

[Not3in1]

Hi Gene,

Quote

Remember Mandy flesh profits nothing, it's the spirit of God that does

If this is true, why is it so important to recognize that Jesus came in the flesh?

Also, why did God have the plan that Jesus would be born of the virgin, a women under law?

[GeneBalthrop]

Mandy……..in my opinion, the reason is it was important to the Father for us to know that He perfected a purely human being with no advantage over us and it gives us a example of what he can do for us. He indeed was a miracle berth and was a Second Man Adam and the Miracle berth was identifying Jesus as the one the Farther would be with and perfect as the first begotten of the dead. I don't think his berth was as significant as He life was.

peace……….gene

[gollamudi]

Hi Mandy,
Yes Mary contributed 100% for Jesus the man but God's Holy Spirit contributed too for his miraculous birth without male involvement. I believe God's Spirit is the creating agent for Jesus the man. So my understanding of Jesus is entirely different what you believe thinking that God contributed flesh and blood instead of Spirit which will be against His nature. God is pure Spirit I believe that no mortal material substance can consist of Him. Jesus is the three dimensional image of invisible God for us to look on and touch Him. He is the permanent Theophany of the invisible God (Col 2:9). In the O.T God was visible through angels as Theophanies but now in these last days God choose to appear in the form of Jesus to us and He is speaking to us in His Son Jesus as per Heb 1:1. Trinity believes Jesus as the second person of Godhead, I believe Jesus as the perfect image or Theophany of the same One God who is the Father.

I fully agree with our brother Gene in this understanding.
Thanks and love to you
Adam

[epistemaniac]

Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 31 2008,16:04)

Hi Mandy, Yes Mary contributed 100% for Jesus the man but God's Holy Spirit contributed too for his miraculous birth without male involvement. I believe God's Spirit is the creating agent for Jesus the man. So my understanding of Jesus is entirely different what you believe thinking that God contributed flesh and blood instead of Spirit which will be against His nature. God is pure Spirit I believe that no mortal material substance can consist of Him. Jesus is the three dimensional image of invisible God for us to look on and touch Him. He is the permanent Theophany of the invisible God (Col 2:9). In the O.T God was visible through angels as Theophanies but now in these last days God choose to appear in the form of Jesus to us and He is speaking to us in His Son Jesus as per Heb 1:1. Trinity believes Jesus as the second person of Godhead, I believe Jesus as the perfect image or Theophany of the same One God who is the Father. I fully agree with our brother Gene in this understanding. Thanks and love to you Adam

amen

[Not3in1]

Hi Adam,

Quote

Yes Mary contributed 100% for Jesus the man

Then you are willing to contend for true conception? That Mary contributed her half of the chromosomes needed to make Jesus?

Quote

So my understanding of Jesus is entirely different what you believe thinking that God contributed flesh and blood instead of Spirit which will be against His nature.

I also believe that God is Spirit. I do not believe that God contributed flesh and blood to his Son – how could he? AHHHHHHH, WAIT!!! A light has gone on. Let me stop right here and ponder what I have just written down. I'll get back to you tomorrow….

Love,
Mandy

[Not3in1]

After some pondering……

Mary gave birth to a son.
There needed to be two sets of chromosomes to produce a child.
Mary gave hers, God provided what was needed.

The only other explaination is an incarnation.
If you want Jesus to be human……………………HE NEEDED TWO SETS OF CHROMOSOMES to get there.
If Mary gave one set, who gave the other?

Mandy

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
Is it any harder than making them from dirt?

[david]

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If Mary gave one set, who gave the other?

Quote

Is it any harder than making them from dirt?

My thoughts exactly. Actually, no, my thought was: If he created the universe, with all of it's complexities, from his energy, could he not create a set of chromosomes ?

[Tiffany]

Quote (david @ Sep. 01 2008,17:53)

Quote If Mary gave one set, who gave the other? Quote Is it any harder than making them from dirt? My thoughts exactly.  Actually, no, my thought was: If he created the universe, with all of it's complexities, from his energy, could he not create a set of chromosomes ?

God is almighty and He can do anything He wants to do. For Him to create some chromosomes is childs play. No big deal IMO
Peace and Love Irene

[gollamudi]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 01 2008,16:06)

After some pondering…… Mary gave birth to a son. There needed to be two sets of chromosomes to produce a child. Mary gave hers, God provided what was needed. The only other explaination is an incarnation. If you want Jesus to be human……………………HE NEEDED TWO SETS OF CHROMOSOMES to get there.   If Mary gave one set, who gave the other? Mandy

Hi Sis,
It is not difficult for the Almighty God to provide another set of male chromosomes for the conception of Jesus when He could create first woman from Adam's rib. But I don't accept your logic of God involving personally to provise His so-called sperm or DNA as you often claim. You see others also how they agree with this logic of mine.

Hope you will rethink your beliefs on Jesus' conception.

Thanks and love to you
Adam

[Not3in1]

I agree with all of you, actually. It's no big deal for God to create chromosomes, after all he used dirt before.

But if he was going to use chromosomes, why not include his characterisitics in them? After all, this is how we understand conception and conception was the mode he chose (not dirt again).

Thanks for helping we work this out,
Mandy

[Not3in1]

Quote (gollamudi @ Sep. 01 2008,21:28)

But I don't accept your logic of God involving personally to provise His so-called sperm or DNA as you often claim.

And so when he provided the second set of chromosomes, they were just random matter? Chromosomes contain the building blocks to create a unique individual….do you think none of the building blocks contained anything from the Father? Why not?

Wasn't Jesus his Son? In what way was his Jesus his Son, then? We certainly were not born of his holy Spirit THROUGH A VIRGIN WOMEN. Was that kinda mute point in your mind, then?

Adam, also, you can a zillion folks agree with you – don't be comforted in believing just because folks agree with you that means you are correct in ANY belief. The Trinitarians have a huge following as does the Jehovah Witnesses….are they right too?

Love,
Mandy

[Not3in1]

Quote (david @ Sep. 01 2008,17:53)

Quote If Mary gave one set, who gave the other? Quote Is it any harder than making them from dirt? My thoughts exactly.  Actually, no, my thought was: If he created the universe, with all of it's complexities, from his energy, could he not create a set of chromosomes ?

David,

Of course he could!

But my questions are: 1) if he did “just” create a set of chromosomes to create Jesus in the womb…..who's DNA was it? Random, nameless, DNA? OR could it have been the Father's contribution to his son just as a human contributes to his son? 2) And if not, why? Why did God chose conception then?

Thanks,
Mandy

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 31 2008,20:16)

Hi Adam, Quote Yes Mary contributed 100% for Jesus the man Then you are willing to contend for true conception?  That Mary contributed her half of the chromosomes needed to make Jesus? Quote So my understanding of Jesus is entirely different what you believe thinking that God contributed flesh and blood instead of Spirit which will be against His nature. I also believe that God is Spirit.  I do not believe that God contributed flesh and blood to his Son – how could he?  AHHHHHHH, WAIT!!!  A light has gone on.  Let me stop right here and ponder what I have just written down.  I'll get back to you tomorrow…. Love, Mandy

You realise you are talking of Jesus human body, i.e., when he emptied himself and partook of flesh. Before that he existed in the form of God, or with divine nature.

He is now with God with the glory he had before the world begun, i.e., he is not back to being some kind of concept or attribute of God, but is a being who exists and can be seen.

His hair is white as wool and body sort of shines like glowing hot metal and his face is like the sun.

So if he is back with God with the glory he had before the world begun, then that gives us a clue as to what his glory was like before he came to earth. i.e., the glory he has now is the same glory that he had before the world begun.

Thanks for listening.

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