Preexistence

[RoyT01]

Well said above Kathie
RoyT01

[Not3in1]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 12 2008,01:38)

So, I believe that the Son of God was reproduced also…a literal son born out of the womb of God and only one to be reproduced in that way.  I believe that He dwelt in some type of heavenly body then and also does now.  While He lived among men, He emptied Himself of His noble birth privileges and exchanged the glory of His heavenly body for the glory of the earthly body.  It was through that earthly body that He suffered and died and paid the penalty of death.  He was the innerman of that baby within Mary with all the limits of being a baby, without memory and having to learn all over again about things.  The thing that was consistent was that He had the Spirit of the Son of God in Him, a spirit that was perfect and without fault, a holy spirit and one that had existed since before the creation and one that clearly looked to and had perfect trust and faith in God as His literal Father.

This is the best example of preexistence I have ever heard.  If I were to ever change my mind on the preexistence of Christ – I would adopt this theory to the “T”.  

Good work, Kathi!
Love,
Mandy

[Irene]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 12 2008,01:38)

Good post Pulivarthy, You ask: “what you all say? jesus was God himself or a replica of God for appearances of God before becoming a son of man,jesus christ.” When we think of reproduction, well, you and I are reproductions.  That process happened in the womb.  We aren't our parents, we are like our parents and of our parents but we are definetly not our parents themselves.  We can be like them in nearly every way but one way that we can never be like them is that we can never be alive or dead as long as them for they definetly had a head start on us. So, I believe that the Son of God was reproduced also…a literal son born out of the womb of God and only one to be reproduced in that way.  I believe that He dwelt in some type of heavenly body then and also does now.  While He lived among men, He emptied Himself of His noble birth privileges and exchanged the glory of His heavenly body for the glory of the earthly body.  It was through that earthly body that He suffered and died and paid the penalty of death.  He was the innerman of that baby within Mary with all the limits of being a baby, without memory and having to learn all over again about things.  The thing that was consistent was that He had the Spirit of the Son of God in Him, a spirit that was perfect and without fault, a holy spirit and one that had existed since before the creation and one that clearly looked to and had perfect trust and faith in God as His literal Father. IMO anyway, Kathi

Kathi! good Job.  That is an interesting explanation of how God produced Jesus. Since God is Spirit, I would think that Jesus would be Spirit in His Heavenly Body, don't you think? That is also the glory that He has now. The glory that is what He speaks of in
John 17:5.
He was and is like His invisible Father. To come down from Heaven to earth He emptied Himself of that glory and became a Man.
That is how the elect going to be like, Spirit beings, like Jesus. Will we be like that? There are also a group that are meek and will inherit the earth.  Time will tell, what we will be.
I do not believe that all of us in these end times are going to be Spirit beings. Well I am going of the subjct here, just speculating.
Peace and Love Irene

[gollamudi]

Hi brother Roy,
Thanks for your honest declaration that you are not Trinitarian but your beliefs match almost like aTrinitarian saying Son is eternally begotten from the Father and was preexisting. If you believe such thing please answer my questions to you in my earlier post; How many Gods are there in the Bible that created this universe ?

Whether Paul is a lier in saying “there is only one God and one mediator the man Christ Jesus” in 1 Tim 2:5 ?

Sorry to bother you.
Adam

[GeneBalthrop]

Irene….Jesus is not a spirit, he told Peter and the rest A Spirit does not have Flesh and Bone as you see i Have. Jesus went to heaven with that same body. He did not preexist with that same body and go into the womb of Mary. Jesus was came into existence EXACTLY the same as we are and His body was not changed till He was born with his new body, and it exists with flesh and bone. While God does not have a body, He is Pure Spirit, Just as Jesus said He was. God can indwell any Body Jesus can not, The spirit that was in Christ (the FATHER) can, and does. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………..gene

[Irene]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 13 2008,03:17)

Irene….Jesus is not a spirit, he told Peter and the rest A Spirit does not have Flesh and Bone as you see i Have. Jesus went to heaven with that same body. He did not preexist with that same body and go into the womb of Mary. Jesus was came into existence EXACTLY the same as we are and His body was not changed till He was born with his new body, and it exists with flesh and bone. While God does not have a body, He is Pure Spirit, Just as Jesus said He was. God can indwell any Body Jesus can not, The spirit that was in Christ (the FATHER) can, and does. IMO peace and love to you and yours………..gene

Gen John 1:1 says this” In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God and was with God.
Jesus emptied Himself of the Heavenly Body and became a Man. And the Word became flesh.
But before all that He as the Son of God who created all.
Col 1:15-18 and Rev. 3:14
By Him and for Him all was created. He was the firstborn of all creation. And He was the first to be resurrected. So in all
HE WILL HAVE PREEMINENCE. VERSE 18.
And what do you believe when it says in John 17:5 ” And now O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You BEFORE THE WORLD WAS,”
He had a glory, what is the Fathers glory? Is He not a Spirit Being. What else kind of glory does the Father have?
And what does it say what the Saints are going to be? Spirit beings, like Jesus.
Peace and Love Irene

[Lightenup]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 12 2008,00:20)

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 12 2008,01:38) So, I believe that the Son of God was reproduced also…a literal son born out of the womb of God and only one to be reproduced in that way.  I believe that He dwelt in some type of heavenly body then and also does now.  While He lived among men, He emptied Himself of His noble birth privileges and exchanged the glory of His heavenly body for the glory of the earthly body.  It was through that earthly body that He suffered and died and paid the penalty of death.  He was the innerman of that baby within Mary with all the limits of being a baby, without memory and having to learn all over again about things.  The thing that was consistent was that He had the Spirit of the Son of God in Him, a spirit that was perfect and without fault, a holy spirit and one that had existed since before the creation and one that clearly looked to and had perfect trust and faith in God as His literal Father. This is the best example of preexistence I have ever heard.  If I were to ever change my mind on the preexistence of Christ – I would adopt this theory to the “T”.   Good work, Kathi! Love, Mandy

Thank you Mandy, Roy, and Irene,
Praise be to God is all I can say here!!

God bless,
Kathi

[RoyT01]

Adam It is no bother, there is one God Who decided to give birth to a son that son worked side by side with the Father bringing about the creation. To do this he used The Almighties power or Holy Spirit just as he did when he was performing miracles such as stopping the rain and calming the sea while here on earth. These are not things a human man can do without God. If you remember there was town Christ could not perform miracles in because of that towns lack of faith. But again the preexiastence of Christ has absolutely nothing to do with with the trinity.
RoyT01

[RoyT01]

Hello Gene I don’t know where you got the information that Christ told Peter spirits don’t have physical bodies’ I don’t recall any scripture like that after Christ was resurrected but then that might be my memory. However, If Christ was resurrected with the same body he had when he died why didn’t Mary recognize him; she thought he was the Gardner? She only recognized him by the tone of his voice when he said her name. Why didn't the disciples recognize him as he walked side by side with them? It was not until he broke bread with them that they realized who he was, because of his mannerism in that action. If it was the same flesh and bone body he had when he died how did he enter a room when the door was locked? (John 20:26) If it was the same body he died with why didn’t the apostles recognize him at the fishing boat the third time Christ appeared to anyone after being resurrected John had to tell Peter it was the Lord (John 21 1:14) When the time comes for God to resurrect God resurrects someone that died during the time Christ walked this earth he will do so by installing that persons consciousness in a new body. A healthy body! A body that is completely new not missing hair teeth eyes or limbs.
People have no problem believing God is within them even though God is very much a spiritual being What Gives you the idea that God could not transfer the consciousness of His only begotten Son into a newly forming earthly body within Mary?
God could breath life into s stone if he chose to for life obeys his every command.
Again I couldn’t tell you how God would go about doing that, but I would bet my life God knows How to do that. In fact, as members of the family of God that is exactly what we are doing, betting or lives on Gods ability to completely control life.
There are hundreds of billions of stars in our universe and God remembers the names of all of then so I won’t lose any sleep worrying about our Creator forgetting anyone when the time comes

Roy T01

[NickHassan]

Hi Roy,
Jesus walked on water with a normal human body so going through doors should not be an issue.
He also said in Lk22
“39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. “

If your best friend had died and you met him on the street would you recognise him?

[epistemaniac]

Quote (RoyT01 @ Aug. 13 2008,10:49)

Hello Gene   I don’t know where you got the information that Christ told Peter spirits don’t have physical bodies’ I don’t recall any scripture like that after Christ was resurrected but then that might be my memory.  However, If Christ was resurrected with the same body he had when he died why didn’t Mary recognize him; she thought he was the Gardner? She only recognized him by the tone of his voice when he said her name.   Why didn't the disciples recognize him as he walked side by side with them?  It was not until he broke bread with them that they realized who he was, because of his mannerism in that action. If it was the same flesh and bone body he had when he died how did he enter a room when the door was locked? (John 20:26) If it was the same body he died with why didn’t the apostles recognize him at the fishing boat the third time Christ appeared to anyone after being resurrected John had to tell Peter it was the Lord (John 21 1:14) When the time comes for God to resurrect God resurrects someone that died during the time Christ walked this earth he will do so by installing that persons consciousness in a new body. A healthy body! A body that is completely new not missing hair teeth eyes or limbs.   People have no problem believing God is within them even though God is very much a spiritual being  What Gives you the idea that God could not transfer the consciousness of His only begotten Son into a newly forming earthly body within Mary? God could breath life into s stone if he chose to for life obeys his every command. Again I couldn’t tell you how God would go about doing that, but I would bet my life God knows How to do that.   In fact, as members of the family of God that is exactly what we are doing, betting or lives on Gods ability to completely control life. There are hundreds of billions of stars in our universe and God remembers the names of all of then so I won’t lose any sleep worrying about our Creator forgetting anyone when the time comes Roy T01

(Luk 24:39) See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (RoyT01 @ Aug. 12 2008,07:47)

Adam you have  been given many sciptures concerning Christ's preexistence by myself and others.  You just don' want to believe them but none of those scriptures has anything to do with the false doctrine of a three headed God. I have a son who lives in New York.   But he is not me And I am not him.  He is my son who I am quite proud of… see how it works. Although, in retrospect, I guess I can see your mistaken relationship because Constantine used that arguement to introduce that idea into the Catholic Church in 324 AD but then that church spent the better part of 500 years arguing over how many angels would fit on the head of a pin? So how serious can one take their debates.  Also constantine was baptised on his deathbed because he never was a Christian but believed in a three headed god called something like Pholymare, I don't recall exactly but then again Who Cares?  Constantine was a Roman Emporer who put individual Christian churches together under one head …His, and he did this for power not for God. RoyT01

Hi RoyT01

Thanks for your posts. Look forward to more.

[GeneBalthrop]

RoyT01……..epistemaniaic……..Has answered it for me…This body he was resurrected with is what went up to heaven in a cloud and will be the same body that will come back with i believe. But notice He did not say flesh and blood, but flesh and bone, interesting. IMO

Thanks for you input welcome to the site.

Love and peace to you and yours………….. gene

[RoyT01]

Thank you Nick and Epistemaniac for Luke 24:39 Which I had forgotten about.
Nick you asked
If your best friend had died and you met him on the street would you recognize him?
I believe I would Nick if I walked with him and had believed him when he was alive and expected him to be resurrected by His Father but I agree with you that Christ could walk on water. In fact, until this moment I never understood why Peter also walked on Water but Gene said
notice He did not say flesh and blood, but flesh and bone, interesting…

but that statement Gene triggered in my mind a connection to Chapter 27 in Ezekiel
Ezek 37:1-14
1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the LORD and set me in the middle of a valley; it was full of bones. 2 He led me back and forth among them, and I saw a great many bones on the floor of the valley, bones that were very dry. 3 He asked me, “Son of man, can these bones live?”

I said, “O Sovereign LORD, you alone know.”

4 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to these bones and say to them, 'Dry bones, hear the word of the LORD!
5 This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life.
6 I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.'”

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to bone.
8 I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them.

9 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, 'this is what the Sovereign LORD says: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe into these slain, that they may live.'”
10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet — a vast army.

11 Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.'
12 Therefore prophesy and say to them: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: O my people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel.
13 Then you, my people, will know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves and bring you up from them.
14 I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the LORD have spoken, and I have done it, declares the LORD.'” NIV
I don’t know for sure yet but perhaps the word is telling us that like everything else about Christ even his resurrection was different than any other man. Other men could walk on water but only Christ could return to his Father. It never fails to amaze me; I am 78 , 79 in Sept but there are still knew things to be learned from the wondrous word of God

[david]

Hi Royt1, i agree with you, about Jesus' body. Here's why:

MARK 16:12 KING JAMES
“After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.”
Mark 16:12 DOUAY VERSION
“And after that he appeared in another shape to two of them walking, as they were going into the country.”
(Also appears this way in Latin Vulgate; German Luther Bible; Contemporary English Version; New International Version; New American Standard Version)
The Greek word there translated “shape” is morphé, which the Greek-English Lexicon says means “form, shape, fashion, appearance.”
But even apart from what Mark 16:12 says, a careful study of the resurrection appearances makes it clear that the resurrected Jesus materialized different bodies to suit the occasion. On at least two occasions he materialized bodies that resembled the one in which he had been nailed to the stake. (Luke 24:38-40; John 20:20-27) On other occasions the form or shape that he materialized left the disciples in doubt for a while.

JOHN 14:19: “A little longer and the world will behold me no more, but you [Jesus’ faithful apostles] will behold me, because I live and you will live.”
(Jesus had promised his apostles that he would come again and take them to heaven to be with him. They could see him because they would be spirit creatures as he is. But the world would not see him again. Compare 1 Timothy 6:16.)
ACTS 10:40, 41
“God raised this One [Jesus Christ] up on the third day and granted him to become manifest, not to all the people, but to witnesses appointed beforehand by God.”
(Why did not others see him too? Because he was a spirit creature and when, as angels had done in the past, he materialized fleshly bodies to make himself visible, he did so only in the presence of his disciples.)
2 CORINTHIANS 5:16
“Even if we have known Christ according to the flesh, certainly we now know him so no more.”
ACTS 13:34
“He [God] resurrected him [Jesus] from the dead destined no more to return to corruption.”
(Human bodies are by nature corruptible. That is why 1 Corinthians 15:42, 44 uses the word “corruption” in parallel construction with “physical body.” Jesus will never again have such a body.)
JOHN 6:51
“I am the living bread that came down from heaven; if anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and, for a fact, the bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.”
(Having given it, Jesus does not take it back again. He does not thereby deprive mankind of the benefits of the sacrifice of his perfect human life.)
HEBREWS 10:10
“We have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL TIME.”
(Having given up his flesh for the life of the world, Christ could never take it again and become a man once more. For that basic reason his return could never be in the human body that he sacrificed once for all time.)

If a man pays a debt for a friend but then promptly takes back the payment, obviously the debt continues. Likewise, if, when he was resurrected, Jesus had taken back his human body of flesh and blood, which had been given in sacrifice to pay the ransom price, what effect would that have had on the provision he was making to relieve faithful persons of the debt of sin?

Jesus gave “his soul as a ransom in exchange for many.” (Mt 20:28) He was a “corresponding ransom for all.” (1 Tim 2:6)
If someone kidnaps your daughter and demands a ransom price, and you pay it to get your daughter back….do you then get the money back when it's all done? Does it ever work that way?

1 CORINTHIANS 15:45
“It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.”
1 TIM 3:16
“‘He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, ”
1 PETER 3:18 (NASB)
“For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;”[“in the spirit,” NE, AT, JB, Dy RS] (At his resurrection from the dead, Jesus was brought forth with a spirit body. In the Greek text the words “flesh” and “spirit” are put in contrast to each other, and both are in the dative case; so, if a translator uses the rendering “by the spirit” he should also consistently say “by the flesh,” or if he uses “in the flesh” he should also say “in the spirit.”)

Before his ascension to heaven Christ, as a mighty, immortal spirit person, did materialize various fleshly bodies to suit the occasion, for the purpose of giving to his disciples visible, palpable evidence of his resurrection.—Joh 20:13-17, 25-27; 21:1, 4; Lu 24:15, 16.

The Bible is very clear when it says:
“Christ died once for all time concerning sins . . . , he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.”
” (1 Peter 3:18) Humans with flesh-and-blood bodies cannot live in heaven. Of the resurrection to heavenly life, the Bible says: “It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. . . . flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom.” (1 Corinthians 15:44-50) Only spirit persons with spiritual bodies can live in heaven.

1 CORINTHIANS 15:42-50, RS: “So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. . . . It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. . . . Thus it is written, ‘The first man Adam became a living being’; the last Adam [Jesus Christ, who was a perfect human as Adam had been at the start] became a life-giving SPIRIT. . . . I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”

It is true that Jesus appeared in physical form to his disciples after his resurrection. But on certain occasions, WHY DID THEY NOT AT FIRST RECOGNIZE HIM? (Luke 24:15-32; John 20:14-16)
After Jesus’ resurrection MARY MISTOOK HIM for the gardener. (Joh 20:14, 15)
On one occasion, for the benefit of Thomas, Jesus appeared with the physical evidence of nail prints in his hands and a spear wound in his side. But HOW WAS IT POSSIBLE ON THAT OCCASION FOR HIM TO SUDDENLY APPEAR IN THEIR MIDST EVEN THOUGH THE DOORS WERE LOCKED? (John 20:24-29) Jesus evidently materialized bodies on these occasions, as angels had done in the past when appearing to humans.

Luke 24:36-39: “While they [the disciples] were speaking of these things he himself stood in their midst and said to them: ‘May you have peace.’ But because they were terrified, and had become frightened, they were imagining they beheld a spirit. So he said to them: ‘Why are you troubled, and why is it doubts come up in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; feel me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have.’”

Humans cannot see spirits, so the disciples evidently thought they were seeing an apparition or a vision that had appeared in this locked room. (Compare Mark 6:49, 50.) Jesus assured them that he was no apparition; they could see his body of flesh and could touch him, feeling the bones; he also ate in their presence. Similarly, in the past, angels had materialized in order to be seen by men; they had eaten, and some had even married and fathered children. (Gen. 6:4; 19:1-3) Following his resurrection, Jesus did not always appear in the same body of flesh (perhaps to reinforce in their minds the fact that he was then a spirit; see all scriptures above)
and so he was not immediately recognized even by his close associates. (John 20:14, 15; 21:4-7) However, by his repeatedly appearing to them in materialized bodies and then saying and doing things that they wou
ld identify with the Jesus they knew, he strengthened their faith in the fact that he truly had been resurrected from the dead.
Several times he manifested himself and WAS RECOGNIZED, NOT BY HIS APPEARANCE, BUT BY HIS WORDS AND ACTIONS. (Lu 24:15, 16, 30, 31, 36-45; Mt 28:16-18)
Once a miracle performed at his direction opened his disciples’ eyes to his identity.

JOHN 21:4-7,12
“However, just as it was getting to be morning, Jesus stood on the beach, but the disciples did not, of course discern that it was Jesus. Then Jesus said to them: “Young children, YOU do not have anything to eat, do YOU?” They answered “No!” to him. He said to them: “Cast the net on the right side of the boat and YOU will find [some].” Then they cast it, but they were no longer able to draw it in because of the multitude of the fishes. Therefore that disciple whom Jesus used to love said to Peter: “It is the Lord!” Hence Simon Peter, upon hearing that it was the Lord, girded about himself his top garment, for he was naked, and plunged into the sea. . . .Jesus said to them: “Come, take YOUR breakfast.” Not one of the disciples had the courage to inquire of him: “Who are you?” because they knew it was the Lord.”
(WHY WOULD THEY HAVE TO ASK: ‘WHO ARE YOU?’ OR NEED THE COURAGE TO ASK THIS IF HE HAD HIS FLESHLY BODY THAT WAS RECOGNIZABLE? THERE WOULD BE NO REASON TO ASK: WHO ARE YOU?
The reason they knew it was the Lord, wasn’t because he appeared as he did before his death–they recognized him because he performed the miracle.

Interestingly, although the physical body was not left by God in the tomb (evidently to strengthen the conviction of the disciples that Jesus had actually been raised), the linen cloths in which it had been wrapped were left there; YET, THE RESURRECTED JESUS ALWAYS APPEARED FULLY CLOTHED.—John 20:6, 7.

But since the apostle THOMAS was able to put his hand into the hole in Jesus’ side, does that not show that Jesus was raised from the dead in the same body that was nailed to the stake? No, for Jesus simply materialized or took on a fleshly body, as angels had done in the past. In order to convince Thomas of who He was, He used a body with wound holes. He appeared, or seemed to be, fully human, able to eat and drink, just as did the angels that Abraham once entertained.—Genesis 18:8; Hebrews 13:2.

LUKE 24:31-35
“…and he disappeared from them. And they said to each other: “Were not our hearts burning as he was speaking to us on the road, as he was fully opening up the Scriptures to us?” And in that very hour they rose and returned to Jerusalem, and they found the eleven and those with them assembled together, saying: “For a fact the Lord was raised up and he appeared to Simon!” Now they themselves related the [events] on the road and how he became known to them by the breaking of the loaf.”

I think this says it all:

“Not one of the disciples had the courage to inquire of him: “Who are you?” because they knew it was the Lord.”

They knew who it was, it was the Lord. But it wasn't his appearance that gave it away. Otherwise, they wouldn't have had any need at all to ask: Who are you?

[david]

Quote

If your best friend had died and you met him on the street would you recognise him?

Yes, obviously, if he looked the same. It would be harder though if he was resurrected with a different body for some reason. His speech, or distinct actions might give it away though. So, he obviously wouldn't be recognized at first.
Interesting how this is exactly what happened with Jesus–not recongnized at first, but specific familiar phrases or actions opened peoples eyes to who he was!

[Lightenup]

Hey all,
Many good posts here! David good work, Roy, Epistimaniac, and Gene all good points.
I just have a few minutes.
I would like to comment on the resurrected body of Christ.
Remember the vision on the mount of transfiguration?
Mt 17:2
And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light

Re 1:16
In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength.

Well, no time to comment much but it keeps mentioning His face shining like the sun in His new heavenly body. hmmm

2Co 4:6
For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

2Co 3:18
But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Just something to chew on…
LU

[gollamudi]

Quote (RoyT01 @ Aug. 13 2008,09:29)

Adam It is no bother, there is one God Who decided to give birth to a son that son worked side by side with the Father bringing about the creation. To do this he used The Almighties power or Holy Spirit just as he did when he was performing miracles such as stopping the rain and calming the sea while here on earth. These are not things a human man can do without God.  If you remember there was town Christ could not perform miracles in because of that towns lack of faith.  But again the preexiastence of Christ has absolutely nothing to do with with the trinity. RoyT01

Hi brother Roy,
Yet you choose to skip my questions cleverly. You have not answered my questioned; how many Gods are there in the bible and how many Gods created this universe as you don't believe Trinity?
What about the Monotheism of Bible ?

Paul's words on Jesus being man-mediator ?

[NickHassan]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2008,01:22)

Hey all, Many good posts here!  David good work, Roy, Epistimaniac, and Gene all good points. I just have a few minutes. I would like to comment on the resurrected body of Christ. Remember the vision on the mount of transfiguration?   Mt 17:2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light Re 1:16 In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength. Well, no time to comment much but it keeps mentioning His face shining like the sun in His new heavenly body. hmmm 2Co 4:6 For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. 2Co 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit. Just something to chew on… LU

Hi LU,
Scripture says he was full of light and truth.
What a vessel.
Of course he is not what fills him.

[Lightenup]

Hi Nick,
The Son of God can only be the Light of the World if He is also filled with Light. Like us, if we are not filled with the light, we can not be a light. Our light would be darkness.

34 “The eye is the lamp of your body; when your eye is clear, your whole body also is full of light; but when it is bad, your body also is full of darkness. 35 “Then watch out that the light in you is not darkness. 36 “If therefore your whole body is full of light, with no dark part in it, it will be wholly illumined, as when the lamp illumines you with its rays.”

The light He is filled with is the absolute truth of God IMO. If He didn't have the truth within Him then He couldn't show truth to others. Hence, you say that:
“Scripture says he was full of light and truth.
What a vessel.
Of course he is not what fills him.”

Yes, you are correct that He was/is full of light and truth. For that very reason He can and IS the light and truth of God for us.

It is written
Joh 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the TRUTH, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Joh 8:12 ]
Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, “I am the LIGHT of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the LIGHT of life.”

Joh 9:5
“While I am in the world, I am the LIGHT of the world.”

He is a receiver, giver and representative of what fills Him.

BTW,
My verses in the post you were quoting were meant to show that Christ, in the glorified heavenly body, is spoken of as having a “face shining like the sun”. His body was certainly different that while flesh and blood.

LU

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