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Quote (gollamudi @ July 11 2008,14:40) Yes, you right brother. But that word has not become a person until Jesus was born on this earth. There lies the difference even a trinitarian may agree with this.
In John 17:5 It says this” And now O Father glory Me with the glory I had with You before the world was.” If He only was what you think, that is what He went back to? No. He was a real being before He emptied Himself and became a man. And Now sits at the right hand of the Father where He was before.
Firstborn of all creation and firstborn of the dead so that in all He will have preeminence.
Rev. 3:14 And these things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God.
Why is this so hard for you to understand. Don't you believe what the Scripture says?Adam….yes Jesus was with God in His plan and purpose and at the right time GOD brought him forth. Peter said it plainly. Thats what happened.
In my opinion Jesus did not preexist as a being until His berth by Mary, He only existed in Gods plan from the foundations of the earth.
Irene if you are going to insist Jesus was the creature of everything then you have no option but to say Jesus was the almighty God himself like WJ says. Because as I and WJ have brought out before God plainly said He (Alone and by Himself) created everything.
So it 's either the trinitarian way or believe that Jesus came into his existence at berth as i and Adam, Mandy, and others believe. You cant have it both ways. IMO
peace and love to you all………..gene
Irene ….if God was not with any of his plans or thoughts he would have been a mindless being. God is certainly with His plans and thoughts they are part of his will and purpose. Surely you believe that.Don't let anyone mislead you by saying God is not with His plans and thoughts. utter nonsense!.
ps
Thoughts are withinMatthew 9:4
And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, “Why are you thinking evil in your hearts?Matthew 15:19
” For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.Mark 7:21
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries,Luke 2:35
and a sword will pierce even your own soul–to the end that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed.”Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2008,16:08) Hi Irene,
None of us are with our thoughts or plans but they are in us.
You've never heard or used the saying, “Leave me alone with my thoughts.” ?Thoughts are “in” us just as Jesus was “in” God and was indeed God……….until he was born!
Quote (Irene @ July 11 2008,15:10) And Now sits at the right hand of the Father where He was before.
Where he was before?There are a couple things wrong, imo, with this theory. First, as Gene pointed out, God said he was ALONE during creation. Do you not believe these scriptures?
Second, what kind of gift or prize would it be to give Jesus something he already had before? The scriptures say that BECAUSE he sacrificed himself, that he was exhaulted to the highest place. Scriptures do not say that he returned to is former place of glory next to the Father. That is forcing the text way too much, I think.
Hi not3,
Look up the concordance and see if ALONE is in yours there as I cannot find it in mine.He was prepared to risk death for you .
Mandy….right our thoughts are who and what we are, they are part of what we are.
Love to you and yours…..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2008,16:45) Hi not3,
Look up the concordance and see if ALONE is in yours there as I cannot find it in mine.He was prepared to risk death for you .
The word “alone” may not be in the concordance but it certainly is in scripture!IF Jesus came from heaven as a preexistent son….there was no risk involved. We've been through this before and you never pin-pointed the exact “risk” Jesus would have had to take?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 11 2008,16:47) Mandy….right our thoughts are who and what we are, they are part of what we are. Love to you and yours…..gene
Yes, Gene, we seem to understand this clearly from scripture however it causes conflict with other's theologies here….I can see where the various beliefs come from. That is why I don't think it has to be set in cement. If it were supposed to be that it would have been clearer in the scriptures.
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 11 2008,17:01) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2008,16:45) Hi not3,
Look up the concordance and see if ALONE is in yours there as I cannot find it in mine.He was prepared to risk death for you .
The word “alone” may not be in the concordance but it certainly is in scripture!IF Jesus came from heaven as a preexistent son….there was no risk involved. We've been through this before and you never pin-pointed the exact “risk” Jesus would have had to take?
Jesus risked to eternally die, if He would have sinned. He emtied Himself of what He was before. So He could have died if He would have sinned. Not only that and so would we have. There is one Scriptres that says that it was God only that created all. But that does not change the fact, that Jesus was the firstborn of all creation. It is by the power of the Father that all consist and we know that He is greater then all and is above all. That does not change anything. IMO. He gave Jesus the power to create all. He has preeminence in all. Firstborn of all creation and Firstborn of the dead. Preeminence mearns first in all. He was before the Angels and before the world was.
Love IreneQuote (Irene @ July 11 2008,18:14) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 11 2008,17:01) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2008,16:45) Hi not3,
Look up the concordance and see if ALONE is in yours there as I cannot find it in mine.He was prepared to risk death for you .
The word “alone” may not be in the concordance but it certainly is in scripture!IF Jesus came from heaven as a preexistent son….there was no risk involved. We've been through this before and you never pin-pointed the exact “risk” Jesus would have had to take?
Jesus risked to eternally die, if He would have sinned. He emtied Himself of what He was before. So He could have died if He would have sinned. Not only that and so would we have. There is one Scriptres that says that it was God only that created all. But that does not change the fact, that Jesus was the firstborn of all creation. It is by the power of the Father that all consist and we know that He is greater then all and is above all. That does not change anything. IMO. He gave Jesus the power to create all. He has preeminence in all. Firstborn of all creation and Firstborn of the dead. Preeminence mearns first in all. He was before the Angels and before the world was.
Love IreneIrene
Quote (Irene @ July 11 2008,18:14) There is one Scriptres that says that it was God only that created all. So you admit that your theology has contradictions?
WJ
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 11 2008,17:01) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2008,16:45) Hi not3,
Look up the concordance and see if ALONE is in yours there as I cannot find it in mine.He was prepared to risk death for you .
The word “alone” may not be in the concordance but it certainly is in scripture!IF Jesus came from heaven as a preexistent son….there was no risk involved. We've been through this before and you never pin-pointed the exact “risk” Jesus would have had to take?
Hi Mandy,
Welcome back to this favourite thread of yours. So far I was taking your role to encourage people to share their views on this topic. I am happy you have taken back your role. Here is the verse to prove God alone created this universe and there was no one else besides Him.
Please see Is 45:5-7(in different version)5 “I am the Lord, and there is no other,
besides me there is no God;
I equip you, though you do not know me,
6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun
and from the west, that there is none besides me;
I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7 I form light and create darkness,
I make well-being and create calamity,
I am the Lord, who does all these things”.and also Is 44:24(in different version)
24 “Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer,
who formed you from the womb:
“I am the Lord, who made all things,
who alone stretched out the heavens,
who spread out the earth by myself”,We can not make more than one creator then we go into polytheism which is against the monotheism of the Bible.
Love and peace to you
AdamQuote (WorshippingJesus @ July 11 2008,18:35) Quote (Irene @ July 11 2008,18:14) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 11 2008,17:01) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2008,16:45) Hi not3,
Look up the concordance and see if ALONE is in yours there as I cannot find it in mine.He was prepared to risk death for you .
The word “alone” may not be in the concordance but it certainly is in scripture!IF Jesus came from heaven as a preexistent son….there was no risk involved. We've been through this before and you never pin-pointed the exact “risk” Jesus would have had to take?
Jesus risked to eternally die, if He would have sinned. He emtied Himself of what He was before. So He could have died if He would have sinned. Not only that and so would we have. There is one Scriptres that says that it was God only that created all. But that does not change the fact, that Jesus was the firstborn of all creation. It is by the power of the Father that all consist and we know that He is greater then all and is above all. That does not change anything. IMO. He gave Jesus the power to create all. He has preeminence in all. Firstborn of all creation and Firstborn of the dead. Preeminence mearns first in all. He was before the Angels and before the world was.
Love IreneIrene
Quote (Irene @ July 11 2008,18:14) There is one Scriptres that says that it was God only that created all. So you admit that your theology has contradictions?
WJ
Not at all. Jesus did create all by the power of God the Father. There is no contradiction. All fits.
IreneQuote (gollamudi @ July 11 2008,19:26) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 11 2008,17:01) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2008,16:45) Hi not3,
Look up the concordance and see if ALONE is in yours there as I cannot find it in mine.He was prepared to risk death for you .
The word “alone” may not be in the concordance but it certainly is in scripture!IF Jesus came from heaven as a preexistent son….there was no risk involved. We've been through this before and you never pin-pointed the exact “risk” Jesus would have had to take?
Hi Mandy,
Welcome back to this favourite thread of yours. So far I was taking your role to encourage people to share their views on this topic. I am happy you have taken back your role. Here is the verse to prove God alone created this universe and there was no one else besides Him.
Please see Is 45:5-7(in different version)5 “I am the Lord, and there is no other,
besides me there is no God;
I equip you, though you do not know me,
6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun
and from the west, that there is none besides me;
I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7 I form light and create darkness,
I make well-being and create calamity,
I am the Lord, who does all these things”.and also Is 44:24(in different version)
24 “Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer,
who formed you from the womb:
“I am the Lord, who made all things,
who alone stretched out the heavens,
who spread out the earth by myself”,We can not make more than one creator then we go into polytheism which is against the monotheism of the Bible.
Love and peace to you
Adam
HI Gm,
Using another concordance ALONE in Is 44 is put as two words
854 ETHand the commonnest use is AGAINST[36] while it appears as ALONE once.
4480
MINcommonest use is MORE THAN[87]
while variations of ALONE occur 4 times.Interesting
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