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Nick…..a word can (NEVER BECOME) Flesh, look up the meaning of BECAME. What this is saying the (word who is Spirit) came to be in the body of Jesus . Another words He indwelt Him.
Jesus said clearly the Father was (IN) Him, ask How was the Father in Him, through the Words, ” the words i am telling you are Life and are (Spirit).
God is that Spirit expressed through Words, it was the same in the OT also, “for God spoke to us in different ways through the Prophets Has in these latter days spoken to us (THROUGH) a SON. NO difference, So God Spoke, how (through) a son, how ,BY WORDS, It was God speaking (His words) through Jesus, Jesus plainly said in 10 or 12 places the words were not his own he was speaking to Us, But the Fathers.
When can you people get that simple thing straight.
peace………..gene
Hi GB,
Jn1
14And the Word became[1096] flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.Number 1096
Transliteration:
ginomai {ghin'-om-ahee}
Word Origin:
a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb
TDNT:
1:681,117
Part of Speech:
verb
Usage in the KJV:
be 255, come to pass 82, be made 69, be done 63, come 52, become 47, God forbid 3361 15, arise 13, have 5, be fulfilled 3, be married to 3, be preferred 3, not tr 14, misc 4, vr done 2Total: 630
Definition:
to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
of events
to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
of men appearing in public
to be made, finished
of miracles, to be performed, wrought
to become, be madeNick….so the top choices is to come into existence ,(in flesh) i.e.Jesus') to come to pass (in flesh) i.e. Jesus'
But the very last is to (BE MADE) so why interpret it that way, instead of came to be in Flesh as Jesus showed in many scriptures that God was in Him> Why do you want to push God as Flesh THEN. Is it because it will back up the false assertion that Jesus Himself is the (Word) mentioned in John 1:1 and show preexistence. Sure it is, even though Jesus said in 10 or 12 places that is not the case, but it would shatter your preexistence and the trinitarians preexistence theories to peaces.
IMO…..gene
peace…..gene
Hi GB,
A being cannot come to pass in flesh
unless that being existed before such came to pass.
God did not come as Jesus but as you say was in Jesus after his anointing.God was not in God, but in his Son Jesus, reconciling the world to Himself[cf 2Cor5.19]
) At Revelation 3:14 he speaks of himself as “the beginning of the creation by God.” Not only is he “the firstborn of all creation” but as the “only begotten Son” he is the only one who was directly created by Jehovah God. (Colossians 1:15; John 3:16) In addition, “all things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.” (John 1:3) Therefore, when we read at Genesis 1:26 that God said, “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness,” that “us” includes the Logos, or Word. Surely, the fact that Jesus in his prehuman existence had the marvelous privilege of sharing with Jehovah God in creation makes him worthy of great honor.
“22 “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water. 25 Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, 26 when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, 31 being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men.”
“? 26 I have many things to speak concerning YOU and to pass judgment upon. As a matter of fact, he that sent me is true, and the very things I heard from him I am speaking in the world.” 27 They did not grasp that he was talking to them about the Father. 28 Therefore Jesus said: “When once YOU have lifted up the Son of man, then YOU will know that I am [he], and that I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me I speak these things. 29 And he that sent me is with me; he did not abandon me to myself, because I always do the things pleasing to him.” 30 As he was speaking these things, many put faith in him.”
“Long ago you laid the foundations of the earth itself,
And the heavens are the work of your hands.”“Also, with reference to the angels he says: “And he makes his angels spirits, and his public servants a flame of fire.” 8 But with reference to the Son: “God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with [the] oil of exultation more than your partners.” 10 And: “You at [the] beginning, O Lord, laid the foundations of the earth itself, and the heavens are [the] works of your hands. 11 They themselves will perish, but you yourself are to remain continually; and just like an outer garment they will all grow old, 12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as an outer garment; and they will be changed, but you are the same, and your years will never run out.”
13 But with reference to which one of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand, until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”? 14 Are they not all spirits for public service, sent forth to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation?”
Hi DK,
Good verses that you have listed. I came across this passage the other night and thought it interesting how it changes from second person to third person as it talked about the creation. It sounds like two were involved in creation. It says things like “He did….You did…” What do you think?Psalm 104:1-9
1 Bless the LORD, O my soul! O LORD my God, You are very great; You are clothed with splendor and majesty, 2 Covering Yourself with light as with a cloak, Stretching out heaven like a tent curtain. 3 He lays the beams of His upper chambers in the waters; He makes the clouds His chariot; He walks upon the wings of the wind; 4 He makes the winds His messengers, Flaming fire His ministers. 5 He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it will not totter forever and ever. 6 You covered it with the deep as with a garment; The waters were standing above the mountains. 7 At Your rebuke they fled, At the sound of Your thunder they hurried away. 8 The mountains rose; the valleys sank down To the place which You established for them. 9 You set a boundary that they may not pass over, So that they will not return to cover the earth. 10 He sends forth springs in the valleys; They flow between the mountains; 11 They give drink to every beast of the field; The wild donkeys quench their thirst. 12 Beside them the birds of the heavens dwell; They lift up their voices among * the branches. 13 He waters the mountains from His upper chambers; The earth is satisfied with the fruit of His works. 14 He causes the grass to grow for the cattle, And vegetation for the labor of man, So that he may bring forth food from the earth, 15 And wine which makes man's heart glad, So that he may make his face glisten with oil, And food which sustains man's heart. 16 The trees of the LORD drink their fill, The cedars of Lebanon which He planted, 17 Where * the birds build their nests, And the stork, whose home is the fir trees. 18 The high mountains are for the wild goats; The cliffs are a refuge for the shephanim. 19 He made the moon for the seasons; The sun knows the place of its setting. 20 You appoint darkness and it becomes night, In which all the beasts of the forest prowl about. 21 The young lions roar after their prey And seek their food from God. 22 When the sun rises they withdraw And lie down in their dens. 23 Man goes forth to his work And to his labor until evening. 24 O LORD, how many are Your works! In wisdom You have made them all; The earth is full of Your possessions. 25 There is the sea, great and broad, In which are swarms without number, Animals both small and great. 26 There the ships move along, And Leviathan, which You have formed to sport in it. 27 They all wait for You To give them their food in due season. 28 You give to them, they gather it up; You open Your hand, they are satisfied with good. 29 You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their spirit, they expire And return to their dust. 30 You send forth Your Spirit, they are created; And You renew the face of the ground.Have you seen this passage before?
LUQuote (dirtyknections @ June 21 2008,13:56) ) At Revelation 3:14 he speaks of himself as “the beginning of the creation by God.” Not only is he “the firstborn of all creation” but as the “only begotten Son” he is the only one who was directly created by Jehovah God. (Colossians 1:15; John 3:16) In addition, “all things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.” (John 1:3) Therefore, when we read at Genesis 1:26 that God said, “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness,” that “us” includes the Logos, or Word. Surely, the fact that Jesus in his prehuman existence had the marvelous privilege of sharing with Jehovah God in creation makes him worthy of great honor. “22 “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water. 25 Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, 26 when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, 31 being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men.”
“? 26 I have many things to speak concerning YOU and to pass judgment upon. As a matter of fact, he that sent me is true, and the very things I heard from him I am speaking in the world.” 27 They did not grasp that he was talking to them about the Father. 28 Therefore Jesus said: “When once YOU have lifted up the Son of man, then YOU will know that I am [he], and that I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me I speak these things. 29 And he that sent me is with me; he did not abandon me to myself, because I always do the things pleasing to him.” 30 As he was speaking these things, many put faith in him.”
“Long ago you laid the foundations of the earth itself,
And the heavens are the work of your hands.”“Also, with reference to the angels he says: “And he makes his angels spirits, and his public servants a flame of fire.” 8 But with reference to the Son: “God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with [the] oil of exultation more than your partners.” 10 And: “You at [the] beginning, O Lord, laid the foundations of the earth itself, and the heavens are [the] works of your hands. 11 They themselves will perish, but you yourself are to remain continually; and just like an outer garment they will all grow old, 12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as an outer garment; and they will be changed, but you are the same, and your years will never run out.”
13 But with reference to which one of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand, until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”? 14 Are they not all spirits for public service, sent forth to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation?”
It is so amazing that we have put these and other sciptures down for all, but some just don't get it. I am happy that you do.
Peace and Love IreneHi every one be happy Heaven net is restored. But about the preexistence of Jesus is it still alive here?
Quote (gollamudi @ June 24 2008,04:48) Hi every one be happy Heaven net is restored. But about the preexistence of Jesus is it still alive here?
As alive as Christ was before he emptied himself and took the form of you and IQuote (Lightenup @ June 21 2008,14:15) Hi DK,
Good verses that you have listed. I came across this passage the other night and thought it interesting how it changes from second person to third person as it talked about the creation. It sounds like two were involved in creation. It says things like “He did….You did…” What do you think?Psalm 104:1-9
1 Bless the LORD, O my soul! O LORD my God, You are very great; You are clothed with splendor and majesty, 2 Covering Yourself with light as with a cloak, Stretching out heaven like a tent curtain. 3 He lays the beams of His upper chambers in the waters; He makes the clouds His chariot; He walks upon the wings of the wind; 4 He makes the winds His messengers, Flaming fire His ministers. 5 He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it will not totter forever and ever. 6 You covered it with the deep as with a garment; The waters were standing above the mountains. 7 At Your rebuke they fled, At the sound of Your thunder they hurried away. 8 The mountains rose; the valleys sank down To the place which You established for them. 9 You set a boundary that they may not pass over, So that they will not return to cover the earth. 10 He sends forth springs in the valleys; They flow between the mountains; 11 They give drink to every beast of the field; The wild donkeys quench their thirst. 12 Beside them the birds of the heavens dwell; They lift up their voices among * the branches. 13 He waters the mountains from His upper chambers; The earth is satisfied with the fruit of His works. 14 He causes the grass to grow for the cattle, And vegetation for the labor of man, So that he may bring forth food from the earth, 15 And wine which makes man's heart glad, So that he may make his face glisten with oil, And food which sustains man's heart. 16 The trees of the LORD drink their fill, The cedars of Lebanon which He planted, 17 Where * the birds build their nests, And the stork, whose home is the fir trees. 18 The high mountains are for the wild goats; The cliffs are a refuge for the shephanim. 19 He made the moon for the seasons; The sun knows the place of its setting. 20 You appoint darkness and it becomes night, In which all the beasts of the forest prowl about. 21 The young lions roar after their prey And seek their food from God. 22 When the sun rises they withdraw And lie down in their dens. 23 Man goes forth to his work And to his labor until evening. 24 O LORD, how many are Your works! In wisdom You have made them all; The earth is full of Your possessions. 25 There is the sea, great and broad, In which are swarms without number, Animals both small and great. 26 There the ships move along, And Leviathan, which You have formed to sport in it. 27 They all wait for You To give them their food in due season. 28 You give to them, they gather it up; You open Your hand, they are satisfied with good. 29 You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their spirit, they expire And return to their dust. 30 You send forth Your Spirit, they are created; And You renew the face of the ground.Have you seen this passage before?
LU
I have…but let me meditate on it before I commentQuote (Nick Hassan @ June 21 2008,08:37) Hi GB,
A being cannot come to pass in flesh
unless that being existed before such came to pass.
God did not come as Jesus but as you say was in Jesus after his anointing.God was not in God, but in his Son Jesus, reconciling the world to Himself[cf 2Cor5.19]
Nick………God is Spirit and (CAN) indwell anyone even Jesus, Jesus said the Father was in HIM, Don't you Know the Father was in Jesus, reconciling the world to (HIMSELF)> God the Father is (NOT) FLESH, Nor is any Spirit flesh, do you at least understand that simple truth. Do you understand that the words were Spirit, and if they were spirit they were not flesh, So the word could never itself be Flesh and blood, because it's Spirit. If you don't understand that then that accounts for your confusion. You say a being cannot come to pass in flesh unless that being existed before such came to pass thats right just like us also. How does that make us any different then Jesus then. Jesus was a flesh and blood human being exactly like us and if you or any other say different then you are simply lying against the scriptures, that plainly show he was like us in (EVERY) way, to separated Jesus' likeness from ourselves is nothing more then creating another false being who you have no proof existed in any shape of form before He came into existence at his berth on earth.IMO………..gene
Hi GB,
Can truth or light, or the resurrection and the life be flesh?
Jesus was the word and all these things.Nick……..wrong Jesus said in 10 or 12 places He was not the word by saying the words were (NOT) His. If you believe what Jesus said it would clear up a lot for you Nick. You simply have to believe what He said. Why do you and others want to deny his words? If you could see that what Jesus meant was He was giving the words that were not His, but God's words, then it would make sense to you. But preexistences and Trinitarians all want a super Being to worship as a God of some kind, and do not want to relate to Jesus as they would one another human begin who God was indwelling, and working in to perfect. And in doing that you and them are robbing GOD the Father of His true Glory by attributing it to Jesus Himself instead of the Father.
IMO…..gene
Wonderful post my brother Gene, you are right on by saying Jesus was not the “word” before his birth. He now became living word, a being who permanently carries God's word in Him to all which God used to do through His angels and prophets in O.T. Now the fullness of divinity rests in Jesus bodily and we all will also be filled with that same divinity day by day till we reach perfection when Jesus comes again ( 1Jn 3:1-2). There is no need to prove another myth of preexistence of Jesus.
Peace to you
AdamHi GB,
So because Jesus is called the Word do you think he could not ascribe the words he taught to God?Hi Nick,
You are again going back to ground Zero. You are forgetting that the “word” never was another being apart from One God in the beginning untill it was manifested fully in the flesh of Jesus or became flesh.
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