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Hi GB,
“Show me where it says He preexisted in the nature of GOD.”Scripture says he existed in the FORM of God.
Read phil2Nick……..If you will take time to check it our you will find it Says (BEING) in the form of God, the word (BEING) IS PRESENT TENSE, Not Past Tense. And means the same as (EXISTING) also a present tense form of a word. NKJV. and the Greek backs it up also.
You see this is our problem your bible seams to say something mine doesn't, go to E Sword and check it out for your self.
gene
Hi Gb,
So you assumed what I would say?
You put your words in my mouth?Funny I have heard that complaint before somewhere.
Nick……..i assumed nothing you did say (existed) instead of (existing), how was that putting word in your mouth, that what you said.
You or WJ, have yet to show me where is put any words in your mouth, your using that as a diversion from the truth, if i implied anything you said wrong show me.
I have shown you where you did through and you apologized for it. So if i am doing that show me and I will apologize also.
gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 12 2008,15:12) Nick…….It's you who are scrambling the order Show me where it says He preexisted in the nature of GOD. The scripture read (Who (existing) in the nature of God) not preexisted, It doesn't say that right but you and trinitarians are trying to make it say that when if fact it doesn't say that. If it does please show me it. Peace ……….gene
Gene,In this verse we see that the Son of God
first:
emptied Himself (past tense, active voice)
next:
took the form of a bond-servant (past tense-active voice)
and finally:
was made in the likeness of men.(past tense-middle voice)Phillipians 2:7
but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.alla eauton ekenwsen (5656) morfhn doulou labwn, (5631) en omoiwmati anqrwpwn genomenov; (5637)
Isn't it interesting that He actually emptied Himself before His flesh body was made for Him.
A plan cannot empty itself, nope.
What would a plan empty itself of anyway?Now a Begotten God could empty Himself and take on the form of a bond-servant by His own doing (that is what the active voice tells us, the subject did the action). Glory be to the Begotten God and His Father!
You can see that these verbs are all in the aorist tense which is a Greek past tense and that some are in the active voice and one is in the middle voice.
You can check it out here:
http://www.studylight.org/isb….&ol=grkhttp://www.studylight.org/isb….7&nt=na
Blessings,
LUlightenup….I don't need to go to all kinds of other opinions to know what it means it plainly say what it Means, Jesus (being in the nature of God) Jesus had God nature he was born with it, Being is not a past tense word it means existing also, a present tense word. If you look at a Greek text you will see its present tense in all of them, but trinitarians try to turn that around to try to show Jesus as a preexisting being.
I do not think Jesus preexisted His berth on earth., only in the plan and will of God thats all. Peter explained it clearly as far as i am concerned at least.
peace to you………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 13 2008,16:46) lightenup….I don't need to go to all kinds of other opinions to know what it means it plainly say what it Means, Jesus (being in the nature of God) Jesus had God nature he was born with it, Being is not a past tense word it means existing also, a present tense word. If you look at a Greek text you will see its present tense in all of them, but trinitarians try to turn that around to try to show Jesus as a preexisting being. I do not think Jesus preexisted His berth on earth., only in the plan and will of God thats all. Peter explained it clearly as far as i am concerned at least.
peace to you………gene
Gen. So what do you do with the Scripture that says that He was the firstborn all ALL creation. AND THAT TROUGH HIM ALL WAS CREATED FOR HIM AND BY HIM. IT DOES NOT SAY IT IS IN THW PLAN OF GOD OR MIND OF GOD.
ALSO THAT HE HAD PREEMINENCE IN ALL. HE WAS THE FIRSTBORN OF ALL CREATION COL 1: 15, REV. 3: 14 AND THE FIRSTBORN OF THE DEATH.COL. 1:18
ALSO GOD SEND HIM FROM HEAVEN TO GIVE UP THE GLORY HE HAD WITH THE FATHER(SPIRITBEING) AND HE EMPTIED HIMSELF AND BECAME A MAN. John understood all of that and He said.
JOHN 1:1 IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD AND THE WORD WAS GOD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD. AND THE WORD BECAME FLESH.
Oh, yes do you understand that God is a title. there were Gods of Silver, God's of Gold and Satan is the God of this world. We are all being kept captive here. And if it were not for Jesus Sacrifices, that we are under His Blood, we would all have died forever.
THANKS TO OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST AND OUR ALMIGHTY FATHER. I AM FOREVER THANKFUL FOR THAT.
Peace and Love Mrs.Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,00:33) Gene, In this verse we see that the Son of God
first:
emptied Himself (past tense, active voice)
next:
took the form of a bond-servant (past tense-active voice)
and finally:
was made in the likeness of men.(past tense-middle voice)Phillipians 2:7
but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.alla eauton ekenwsen (5656) morfhn doulou labwn, (5631) en omoiwmati anqrwpwn genomenov; (5637)
Isn't it interesting that He actually emptied Himself before His flesh body was made for Him.
A plan cannot empty itself, nope.
What would a plan empty itself of anyway?Now a Begotten God could empty Himself and take on the form of a bond-servant by His own doing (that is what the active voice tells us, the subject did the action). Glory be to the Begotten God and His Father!
You can see that these verbs are all in the aorist tense which is a Greek past tense and that some are in the active voice and one is in the middle voice.
You can check it out here:
http://www.studylight.org/isb….&ol=grkhttp://www.studylight.org/isb….7&nt=na
Blessings,
LU
Hi Gene,
I think that adding NH's post confused my point. I deleted that part. Now comment in the above post regarding specifically Phillipians 2:7.
LUQuote (Gene Balthrop @ June 13 2008,16:46) lightenup….I don't need to go to all kinds of other opinions to know what it means it plainly say what it Means, Jesus (being in the nature of God) Jesus had God nature he was born with it, Being is not a past tense word it means existing also, a present tense word. If you look at a Greek text you will see its present tense in all of them, but trinitarians try to turn that around to try to show Jesus as a preexisting being. I do not think Jesus preexisted His berth on earth., only in the plan and will of God thats all. Peter explained it clearly as far as i am concerned at least.
peace to you………gene
Hi Gene,
You are right my brother,
I only want to add to it is that the passage to Philippians was written by Paul after Jesus' resurrection and glorification to the highest level of sitting on the right hand of Father. If you see the past from present it will look like that as mentioned in Phil 2:6. The existence of Jesus came only after his birth on this earth then only the terms God's image and God nature were added to him. See the verses in Phil 2:5-11” For let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man. (Emptied himself, exinanivit… made himself as of no account and shared all our human nature). 8 He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross. 9 For which cause, God also hath exalted him and hath given him a name which is above all names: 10 That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth: 11 And that every tongue should confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father”
Paul is talking about Jesus' humility to his Father as a result he was exalted to the highest level as he is bestowed with now. People misunderstand Jesus' humilty and want to make him equal to God himself which he himself never wanted to claim.
In future there will be another Christ who will certainly fulfill their promise to claim himself as God and force all such believers to worship him as God.
There is a danger lying in such understanding my friends which Jesus never claimed himself as equal to God his father.
Take care
Adamseeking truth………..First (BORN) not first created Born implys Berth And Jesus was the first (Born) if all Humanity into the Kingdom of GOD. And He does have primeness in all thing another words He is the Head of us because he was the first begotten from the dead of (MANY) Brothers. He is the Head of the family of God, right under the Father himself.
Whats that got to do with preexistence? Look up the word (through) in a Greek translation you will find it has several different meanings and one of them is (FOR).
remember it the (SUM) of GOD's word that's truth. Not some little snap shot here and there, that gives you the real truth.
I mean you no disrespect …Peace to you and yours………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 14 2008,05:59) seeking truth………..First (BORN) not first created Born implys Berth And Jesus was the first (Born) if all Humanity into the Kingdom of GOD. And He does have primeness in all thing another words He is the Head of us because he was the first begotten from the dead of (MANY) Brothers. He is the Head of the family of God, right under the Father himself. Whats that got to do with preexistence? Look up the word (through) in a Greek translation you will find it has several different meanings and one of them is (FOR).
remember it the (SUM) of GOD's word that's truth. Not some little snap shot here and there, that gives you the real truth.
I mean you no disrespect …Peace to you and yours………gene
Gen I snap my Fingers and stay with the truth. I cannot deny all the scriptures that I gave you. One word does not do it. You do not seem to understand what preeminence means. Or what John 1:1 implies. I do not believe in the trinity it has nothing to do with that. But everything with that He was the Spokes-word of God the Father. Nobody has seen or heard His voice. To say that He was only in the mind of God and spoke like some imply is so ridiculous. You also forget that He created all for Him and through Him. God is a title and that is all for today, and that is also the last time I will answer you, because I have done this, so many times. Just like t8 and Nick. Open your mind and you might understand, I had to too .Some little snap shot? No Man many Sciptures. I forgot on in Psalm 8:22-30 No it also says the firsborn of all creation in Rev. 3:14 not after His resurrection. When you say firstborn in to the Family of God, you are ignoring that it says firstborn of all creation. And that He created all. By the power of the Almighty. The Father gave Him that right. It aslo says that He came from Heaven, He gave up His glory and became a man. Thats all…..I said it all before.
Peace and Love Mrs.Quote (seek and you will find @ June 14 2008,07:30) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 14 2008,05:59) seeking truth………..First (BORN) not first created Born implys Berth And Jesus was the first (Born) if all Humanity into the Kingdom of GOD. And He does have primeness in all thing another words He is the Head of us because he was the first begotten from the dead of (MANY) Brothers. He is the Head of the family of God, right under the Father himself. Whats that got to do with preexistence? Look up the word (through) in a Greek translation you will find it has several different meanings and one of them is (FOR).
remember it the (SUM) of GOD's word that's truth. Not some little snap shot here and there, that gives you the real truth.
I mean you no disrespect …Peace to you and yours………gene
Gen I snap my Fingers and stay with the truth. I cannot deny all the scriptures that I gave you. One word does not do it. You do not seem to understand what preeminence means. Or what John 1:1 implies. I do not believe in the trinity it has nothing to do with that. But everything with that He was the Spokes-word of God the Father. Nobody has seen or heard His voice. To say that He was only in the mind of God and spoke like some imply is so ridiculous. You also forget that He created all for Him and through Him. God is a title and that is all for today, and that is also the last time I will answer you, because I have done this, so many times. Just like t8 and Nick. Open your mind and you might understand, I had to too .Some little snap shot? No Man many Sciptures. I forgot on in Psalm 8:22-30 No it also says the firsborn of all creation in Rev. 3:14 not after His resurrection. When you say firstborn in to the Family of God, you are ignoring that it says firstborn of all creation. And that He created all. By the power of the Almighty. The Father gave Him that right. It aslo says that He came from Heaven, He gave up His glory and became a man. Thats all…..I said it all before.
Peace and Love Mrs.
AMEN!!!Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 10 2008,16:36) Quote (942767 @ June 10 2008,11:40) Hi WJ: If the Holy Spirit is not God's personal spirit then how do you interpret the following scripture?
Quote 1Cr 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Cr 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Cr 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritualGod Bless
Hi 94Thats the point. The scripture you quote supports what I believe.
There are three persons spoken of in the scriptures.
But we know that there is only “One Spirit”.
So now we have to reconcile all the scriptures or live with a contradiction.
For the Trinitarian there is no contradiction for there is One Spirit, three persons, and One God.
Hi WJ:In this scripture I see One God teaching His children by His Spirit. God dwells within His Son and His sons in the role of our Father by His Spirit, teaching us to be Holy like Him through the life that we live in obedience to His Word (this is the spirit of the Son).
God Bless
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 10 2008,16:58) Quote (942767 @ June 10 2008,11:40) Hi WJ: If the Holy Spirit is not God's personal spirit then how do you interpret the following scripture?
Quote 1Cr 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Cr 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Cr 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritualGod Bless
94Also, I would interpret it with others which I have already quoted.
Again, this is for another thread.
My point was the Holy Spirit was prophesied by YHWH through the prophets to be poured out on all flesh. Therefore the Spirit was preordained or preexisted and was manifest in these last times.
Blessings!
Hi Brother WJ:The prophesy was that in the the Latter days God would pour out His Spirit on all flesh. Prior to Jesus resurrection the Holy Spirit was only given to the prophets.
Yes, God's Spirit was with Him in the beginning (And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters, Genesis 1:2), and so was the spirit of His Son (John 1:1). God knew that He would conceive a Son and He knew what He would teach His Son, and that His Son would obey Him without sin even unto death on the cross.
God Bless
Hi WJ,
Was God with His Spirit, or does the Spirit not ever “proceed” from God?
Does not psalm 139 show that God manifests as the Spirit?” 7Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. “
Quote (gollamudi @ June 13 2008,00:21) Was there any proof that Jesus was having glory before his resurrection?
If I said that I was going to return to something that I had before say 1980, and then I also said “before 1990, I existed”. Then it would be safe to assume that I was present in the 20th century.Jesus returned to the glory that he with the Father before the world began. Jesus said “before Abraham, I am”. So both statements agree that Jesus existed before Abraham and one hints at him being with God in the beginning. A further witness is that God created ALL things through him and that nothing was created without him.
That is enough for me. A one off statement can be easily confused but 2 or 3 statements that say the same thing are not that easy to write off. Of course there are more than 3 witnesses to the glory that Jesus had with God in the beginning. I can think of at least 10, but there are more.
Hi brother T8,
You are ignoring that the glory which Jesus was mentioning in Jn 17:5 was the future glory which God promised him before the foundations world not that he was already exalted to that posion of sitting with God the Father. See the difference, how can he struggle for the glory which was already existing? You may say he emptied himself, that can not be accepted as a logic here my firend. If at all he was with the glory prior to his birth as man, he could have asked God “Father return my glory which I was having prior to my birth as man” why should he ask for the glory which was before the foundations of the world? There is a logic again, because he foreordained in the plan of God before the foundations of the world, that's why Jesus was asking for the glory which was promised to him. I don't find any difficulty in understanding God's plan in Jesus life when should he take birth and suffer, die and to be ressurected with the glory which He(God) foreknew before the foundations of the world. It all happens for us also as His (God's) children as per Eph 1:4-5. If you understand differently then you make so much assumption about Jesus' pre-existence which is not all necessary for the salvation of mankind.
Peace to you
Adam
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