Preexistence

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (942767 @ June 10 2008,11:40)

Hi WJ: If the Holy Spirit is not God's personal spirit then how do you interpret the following scripture? Quote 1Cr 2:9  But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 1Cr 2:10  But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 1Cr 2:11  For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 1Cr 2:12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 1Cr 2:13  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual God Bless

Hi 94

Thats the point. The scripture you quote supports what I believe.

There are three persons spoken of in the scriptures.

But we know that there is only “One Spirit”.

So now we have to reconcile all the scriptures or live with a contradiction.

For the Trinitarian there is no contradiction for there is One Spirit, three persons, and One God.

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
We are not allowed to add speculations to scripture to attempt to resolve anything.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2008,10:10)

Hi WJ, In Christ Yes. But God still has His Spirit. He pours again in the endtimes on all men[Jl2]

NH

I see so the Fathers Spirit becomes our Spirit? What happened to our Spirit?

What happened to Yeshua's Spirit?

If Yeshua still has a Spirit and he and the Father's Spirit lives in us, then that would mean we have 2 Spirits not one.

Paul never hints at the Spirit of Jesus being different from the Spirit of God. He never hints at there being more than One Spirit.

He never hints at a dual Spirit that we have recieved.

This is the big hole in the Arian and Unitarian and Henotheist theology. Along with others.

You can't reconcile clear scriptures that show the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Who all by nature are Spirit.

Yet there is One Spirit.

But this should be in another thread.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2008,16:38)

Hi WJ, We are not allowed to add speculations to scripture to attempt to resolve anything.

NH

But that is what you do when you take only a scripture or two and form a doctrine around it.

You must interpret scripture with scripture and interpret it as a whole.

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 10 2008,16:50)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2008,10:10) Hi WJ, In Christ Yes. But God still has His Spirit. He pours again in the endtimes on all men[Jl2] NH I see so the Fathers Spirit becomes our Spirit? What happened to our Spirit? What happened to Yeshua's Spirit? If Yeshua still has a Spirit and he and the Father's Spirit lives in us, then that would mean we have 2 Spirits not one. Paul never hints at the Spirit of Jesus being different from the Spirit of God. He never hints at there being more than One Spirit. He never hints at a dual Spirit that we have recieved. This is the big hole in the Arian and Unitarian and Henotheist theology. Along with others. You can't reconcile clear scriptures that show the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Who all by nature are Spirit. Yet there is One Spirit. But this should be in another thread.

Hi WJ,
Not at all.
We have a spirit till death with the Holy Spirit.

Rom8
16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Surely you know from the calvary accounts that Jesus gave up his spirit at death.
We follow him.

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
We do not add speculations to scripture.
No trinity is written

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (942767 @ June 10 2008,11:40)

Hi WJ: If the Holy Spirit is not God's personal spirit then how do you interpret the following scripture? Quote 1Cr 2:9  But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 1Cr 2:10  But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 1Cr 2:11  For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 1Cr 2:12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 1Cr 2:13  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual God Bless

94

Also, I would interpret it with others which I have already quoted.

Again, this is for another thread.

My point was the Holy Spirit was prophesied by YHWH through the prophets to be poured out on all flesh. Therefore the Spirit was preordained or preexisted and was manifest in these last times.

Blessings!  

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick….as you well know the Father (CO) habits with us by His Spirit His Spirit and our Spirit in one body, God concedes Us (TEMPLES) He can live in, ” know you not, you are the Temple of GOD., So if we are His temples He lives in Us, The same way He lives in Jesus, ” that God may be all and (IN) all. Jesus said the father (IN) me He doth the works. Your right its the same for Jesus as for Us , except we don't have the fullness of the spirit yet.

peace …..gene

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
There is one Spirit.
The Spirit of Christ is not different from God's Spirit.

That is why Paul says in Romans 8
“9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”

But it is also why it says in jn 39
“(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given ; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”

The Spirit was not poured afresh from God into us but from Christ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2008,16:55)

Hi WJ, Surely you know from the calvary accounts that Jesus gave up his spirit at death. We follow him.

NH

So the “Word”, or Spirit of Yeshua died and was not resurected?

Will our Spirits forever be lost or dead?

The scriptures clearly teach that the Spirit of Christ preexisted and was revealed to the prophets.

So the preexistent Yeshua died and was not ressurected?

If not who is it we serve? A new man that was born at the Jordan? Does this mean the Preexistent Yeshua has changed his nature and become something other than who or what he was before he came in the flesh?

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 09 2008,17:51)

Quote (david @ June 09 2008,17:12) Just wondering how that went It's a continual process, David.  It hasn't “went” anywhere yet.  I'm still studying. And yes, I am considering that I have been wrong all this time.  It's refreshing to hear, isn't it?   Have a good night, Mandy

Refreshing? You'd be setting a precident, the first ever HN member to admit you got it wrong.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2008,17:02)

Hi WJ, There is one Spirit. The Spirit of Christ is not different from God's Spirit. That is why Paul says in Romans 8 “9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”   But it is also why it says in jn 39 “(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given ; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)” The Spirit was not poured afresh from God into us but from Christ

NH

But how do you interpret those scriptures in light of these…

Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Cant be the Father…

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 10 2008,10:12)

Gollamudi……I'll explaine what WJ…..quoted to you and show you their error.

Drum role please!

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 10 2008,10:12)

Let take it word for word . Rom8:9…> but you are not in the flesh, if so be that the (Spirit of God) dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit (OF) Christ, He is none of His. The challenge is to understand what is meant by the Spirit (OF) Christ , To me it's the spirit Jesus had or the anointing He had. He is called the Anointed, thats what Christ means.

If it is the Spirit Jesus had then I assume you mean it is the Father’s personal Spirit, correct?

Then who’s Spirit is this…

For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, Phil 1:19

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Gal 4:6

What nerve Paul must have had to call a mere man’s spirit the Spirit of God, and to make no distinction in the two.  

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 10 2008,10:12)

Notice how at first Paul says if so be the (Spirit of God) dwell in you and then says the spirit of Christ its the same spirit Jesus had  IN OTHER WORD. Paul was simply saying if anyone does not have the same spirit Jesus had in Him He simply is none of His, thats makes sense to me.

But that’s your inference. That is not what the scripture says. It says the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ. Why didn’t he just say the Spirit of God?

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 10 2008,10:12)

Phil 1:19 is saying the same thing the Spirit of God was in Jesus as well as us

And how do you derive that statement from this…

For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, Phil 1:19

Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you–unless indeed you fail the test? 2 Cor 13:5 NASB

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 10 2008,10:12)

God is Spirit and can indwell all, if fact He is going to , That God may be all and in all, thats by the ONE God brought about BY the ONE Spirit of ONE GOD. Remember it say that God was (IN) Jesus reconciling the World to (HIMSELF). All done By ONE SPIRIT OF GOD THE FATHER> Notice it does not say that the Spirit of Jesus is Jesus' Spirit, if that were the case that would make Jesus a lier, because   He said the Father (IN) him  Doth the works.

Well with that logic, then the spirit of Gene is not Gene’s spirit either.

And in fact that would make God a liar, when it says the “Spirit of God” then by your logic it is not the Father’s Spirit.

And if it is the “Spirit of Jesus” and not Jesus Spirit, then that would imply the “Spirit of God is of Jesus”.

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 10 2008,10:12)

The spirit of Jesus is the anointing He received from the Father if that Spirit be in you also it will produce works Just like it did in Jesus.  All this trying to break up the spirit into two or three different one is pure nonsense.

Yea sure, and Yeshua was speaking pure nonsense when he said…

Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Cant be the Father…

for he shall not speak of himself

but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:

that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Cant be Yeshua…

He shall glorify me:

 for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Does the Father take from Jesus and give to us?

Did Jesus send the Father?

Did Jesus baptize men in the Holy Spirit (Father) and fire?

There is three GB. Yet one Spirit.

You still haven’t answered these questions GB.

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 10 2008,10:12)

ONE GOD Who is God the Father, One mediator Between Him and Us the (Man Jesus) the anointed Son of GOD and ONLY ONE Spirit that's in all and through all, it's all ONE SPIRIT doing it all. peace to you……………gene

So if the One Spirit is doing it all then does this mean Yeshua doesn’t do anything?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2008,16:56)

Hi WJ, We do not add speculations to scripture. No trinity is written

NH

Forget the Trinity. Call it what you want.

But there is still three spoken of in scripture and yet there is “One Spirit”.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2008,16:54)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 10 2008,16:50) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2008,10:10) Hi WJ, In Christ Yes. But God still has His Spirit. He pours again in the endtimes on all men[Jl2] NH I see so the Fathers Spirit becomes our Spirit? What happened to our Spirit? What happened to Yeshua's Spirit? If Yeshua still has a Spirit and he and the Father's Spirit lives in us, then that would mean we have 2 Spirits not one. Paul never hints at the Spirit of Jesus being different from the Spirit of God. He never hints at there being more than One Spirit. He never hints at a dual Spirit that we have recieved. This is the big hole in the Arian and Unitarian and Henotheist theology. Along with others. You can't reconcile clear scriptures that show the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Who all by nature are Spirit. Yet there is One Spirit. But this should be in another thread. Hi WJ, Not at all. We have a spirit till death with the Holy Spirit. Rom8 16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

NH

Yes that is 2 Spirits, ours and Gods.

But the Father, Yeshua and the Holy Spirit live in us according to the scriptures. Yet there is One Spirit.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 10 2008,18:08)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2008,16:56) Hi WJ, We do not add speculations to scripture. No trinity is written NH Forget the Trinity. Call it what you want. But there is still three spoken of in scripture and yet there is “One Spirit”.

You're so right WJ, our spirit is different to God's, but Yeshua's apparently isn't. You hit the nail on the head brother.

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 10 2008,18:10)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2008,16:54) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 10 2008,16:50) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2008,10:10) Hi WJ, In Christ Yes. But God still has His Spirit. He pours again in the endtimes on all men[Jl2] NH I see so the Fathers Spirit becomes our Spirit? What happened to our Spirit? What happened to Yeshua's Spirit? If Yeshua still has a Spirit and he and the Father's Spirit lives in us, then that would mean we have 2 Spirits not one. Paul never hints at the Spirit of Jesus being different from the Spirit of God. He never hints at there being more than One Spirit. He never hints at a dual Spirit that we have recieved. This is the big hole in the Arian and Unitarian and Henotheist theology. Along with others. You can't reconcile clear scriptures that show the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Who all by nature are Spirit. Yet there is One Spirit. But this should be in another thread. Hi WJ, Not at all. We have a spirit till death with the Holy Spirit. Rom8 16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: NH Yes that is 2 Spirits, ours and Gods. But the Father, Yeshua and the Holy Spirit live in us according to the scriptures. Yet there is One Spirit.

Hi WJ,
The Spirit of God is One.
Jesus Christ lives now only in that Spirit.
So will we when we die, our human spirit leaves and we join them.

All as One, alive in the Spirit of God.

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
The single grain fell to the ground and died.
Jn12
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

We are that fruit

[gollamudi]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2008,19:12)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 10 2008,18:10) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2008,16:54) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 10 2008,16:50) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2008,10:10) Hi WJ, In Christ Yes. But God still has His Spirit. He pours again in the endtimes on all men[Jl2] NH I see so the Fathers Spirit becomes our Spirit? What happened to our Spirit? What happened to Yeshua's Spirit? If Yeshua still has a Spirit and he and the Father's Spirit lives in us, then that would mean we have 2 Spirits not one. Paul never hints at the Spirit of Jesus being different from the Spirit of God. He never hints at there being more than One Spirit. He never hints at a dual Spirit that we have recieved. This is the big hole in the Arian and Unitarian and Henotheist theology. Along with others. You can't reconcile clear scriptures that show the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Who all by nature are Spirit. Yet there is One Spirit. But this should be in another thread. Hi WJ, Not at all. We have a spirit till death with the Holy Spirit. Rom8 16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: NH Yes that is 2 Spirits, ours and Gods. But the Father, Yeshua and the Holy Spirit live in us according to the scriptures. Yet there is One Spirit. Hi WJ, The Spirit of God is One. Jesus Christ lives now only in that Spirit. So will we when we die, our human spirit leaves and we join them. All as One, alive in the Spirit of God.

Hi Nick,
Do you mean to say that Jesus is not having a body now and only a spirit?

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