Preexistence

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
Jn 1
“IN him was life; and the life was the Light of men..”

So Christ was a vessel for the life and the light.

[942767]

Hi Lightenup:

You say:

Quote

and One Begotten God, The Lord Jesus Christ.

Where is the scripture to support this?

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Jn 1.18 has manuscript variation with some saying “Son” and some “God”

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 27 2008,10:41)

Hi 94, Jn 1.18 has manuscript variation with some saying “Son” and some “God”

Hi Nick:

Thanks for pointing this our for me. I know which manuscript I will believe on this. No wonder there is so much confusion.

God Bless

[Lightenup]

Quote (942767 @ May 26 2008,17:52)

Hi Lightenup: You say: Quote and One Begotten God, The Lord Jesus Christ. Where is the scripture to support this?

Hi 94,

Nick is right it is in John 1:18:

18 No one has seen God at any time; the ONLY BEGOTTEN GOD who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
NASU

Here it is in the Greek:
qeon oudeiv ewraken (5758) pwpote; monogenhv qeov o wn (5752) eiv ton kolpon tou patrov ekeinov echghsato.

monogenhv qeov means only begotten God.

Some translations say only begotten Son but the greek word after begotten is qeov which when transliterated is Theos which means God.

And Jesus is Lord:
1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
NASU

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 27 2008,07:14)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 27 2008,07:05) Quote (Lightenup @ May 27 2008,06:40) Quote (Lightenup @ May 25 2008,22:17) Quote (942767 @ May 25 2008,14:01) Hi Lightenup: You give me a summary of your understanding as follows: Quote In summary my understanding: In the beginning was the word        “let there be light” and the word was with God              the light existed with God and the word was God                      the light was God, the begotten one And so, according to you, the light existed with God and the the light was God the begotten one.  Two Gods? Hi 94, Good question.  We have ONE “Most High God” who ALWAYS existed-the Heavenly Father.  Any other “God” even the Only Begotten God who became Christ did not always exist so there is only one true God and that is the Most High God-our Heavenly Father.   However, in some contexts we see Christ as our God in scriptures and HE IS because He is perfect and only obeys His Father-the one true God and only acts on his own will as it ligns up with the Father's, also because the one true God has Him in that position as our God for our benefit.  He was God for us from His beginning. Two Gods but in the ultimate context of the expression One God-the Father, the Most High God. Thanks for your question, God bless 94! Hello Gollamudi, How are things in India?  That is where you are from, yes? Please read my above post that I have quoted within this message. I don't get hung up on big G little g.  That is not the issue.  All the original Greek was written in only capital letters like THIS.  I capitalize it when it pertains to someone that has authority over me from here to eternity otherwise it gets a small g. God bless, LU LU Consider this. The light in Genesis was a “created light” agreed. But if this is so and you say the Word/Yeshua is that created light, then how does this created light fit in this verse?… John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. If the all things includes time, space and matter which includes created light, then Yeshua would have created himself for “without him was not anything made that was made”. Blessings! LU Also consider this. If Yeshua is merely the Spoken Word of God, then was there ever a time that God did not have a Word? Gods Word was in him from eternity past, and that Word was always living. Yeshua was called the Word not because he was spoken into being but because he always existed as the One speaking the eternal living words of God. Jesus spoke the words of God, and in many places in the scriptures takes claim to them as being his own words. IMO

Hi WJ:

You say:

Quote

Jesus spoke the words of God, and in many places in the scriptures takes claim to them as being his own words.

Please show me where he takes claim to “them” being his own words. Thanks.

[942767]

Quote (Lightenup @ May 27 2008,11:08)

Quote (942767 @ May 26 2008,17:52) Hi Lightenup: You say: Quote and One Begotten God, The Lord Jesus Christ. Where is the scripture to support this? Hi 94, Nick is right it is in John 1:18: 18 No one has seen God at any time; the ONLY BEGOTTEN GOD who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.   NASU Here it is in the Greek: qeon oudeiv ewraken (5758) pwpote; monogenhv qeov o wn (5752) eiv ton kolpon tou patrov ekeinov echghsato. monogenhv qeov means only begotten God. Some translations say only begotten Son but the greek word after begotten is qeov which when transliterated is Theos which means God. And Jesus is Lord: 1 Cor 8:6 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. NASU

Hi Lightenup:

As I said to Nick, no wonder why there is so much confusion.

There has to be in this translation maybe something like the only begotten (of) God in order for this to be consistent with the rest of the bible.

As I stated Jesus is God in the sense that he is the express image of God's person, and that we see through the works that he did in obedience to God's Word.  God does call him God in Hebrews 1:10 but he exlains why saying,

Quote

But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hbr 1:9  THOU HATH LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND HATED INIQUITY; “THEREFORE” GOD (EVEN THY GOD), HATH ANOINTED THE WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE THY FELLOWS.

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Quote (942767 @ May 27 2008,11:07)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 27 2008,10:41) Hi 94, Jn 1.18 has manuscript variation with some saying “Son” and some “God” Hi Nick: Thanks for pointing this our for me.  I know which manuscript I will believe on this.  No wonder there is so much confusion. God Bless

Hi 94,
How will you define truth here? Opinion?

[942767]

Hi WJ:

What about the following scriptures?

Quote

Jhn 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. Jhn 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself.

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Quote (Lightenup @ May 27 2008,11:08)

Quote (942767 @ May 26 2008,17:52) Hi Lightenup: You say: Quote and One Begotten God, The Lord Jesus Christ. Where is the scripture to support this? Hi 94, Nick is right it is in John 1:18: 18 No one has seen God at any time; the ONLY BEGOTTEN GOD who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.   NASU Here it is in the Greek: qeon oudeiv ewraken (5758) pwpote; monogenhv qeov o wn (5752) eiv ton kolpon tou patrov ekeinov echghsato. monogenhv qeov means only begotten God. Some translations say only begotten Son but the greek word after begotten is qeov which when transliterated is Theos which means God. And Jesus is Lord: 1 Cor 8:6 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. NASU

Hi 94,
Which manuscripts are you reading?

According to my bible SOME say SON
suggesting that most manuscripts say GOD

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
I realise that a million manuscripts could be wrong and one right but since we do not have the originals it is important we do not rush to judgement about them as they are one of the basics of our faith and the lack may be in us.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick……always remember the word (by) and equally mean (through) or (for)
a trinitarian would use BY but others including myself would use FOR. Those three word cause a lot of confusion is the scriptures. When you look up some of the meanings for Greek words they can have totally opposite meanings. And seeing that they were nearly always translated by trinitarians they simple choose the meanings that best suite their ideologies. Have you ever noticed when reading in the Greek translations were they eliminate the word (the) or add it where it isn't in the original test. (The) is a definite article and if it's included into the text the word following it becomes specific , The word (the) appears in a lot of places when describing God, the text should read instead of Just God (the God) which imply s a particular God, The Father. A good trick to keep the text loose and not specific.

IMO……….gene

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,
I do not hold to trinitarian conspiracy theories that suggest God's Spirit can be overcome by man.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 27 2008,12:01)

Quote (942767 @ May 27 2008,11:07) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 27 2008,10:41) Hi 94, Jn 1.18 has manuscript variation with some saying “Son” and some “God” Hi Nick: Thanks for pointing this our for me.  I know which manuscript I will believe on this.  No wonder there is so much confusion. God Bless Hi 94, How will you define truth here? Opinion?

Hi Nick:

It must be line upon line and precept upon precept.

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
So why do you not do so but rather pick and choose manuscripts by other means?

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick………God spirit cannot be over come by man, but if you think the text hasn't been tampered with you are just fooling your self. Why do you think there are hundreds of different translations, And i never said it was a “conspiracy theory”, those are you word not mine. People who were convinced of the trinitarian view points add their thought and words to the text, it has nothing to do with a “conspiracy theory”. They were simply translating the text through there view points. And if you don't think there are many errors in the text then you are naive. Just look in the center margins of any good bible you can't hardly get through a chapter or sentence with out them being pointed out.

IMO…..gene

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,
And the challenges are good for us.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 27 2008,16:10)

Hi 94, So why do you not do so but rather pick and choose manuscripts by other means?

Hi Nick:

How so? Why do you judge me?

[942767]

Hi Nick:

I know of Only one God and One only begotten Son of God and many sons of God who are begotten of God by the spirit of adoption, but no, I am sorry, I don't know any begotten God. If you want to believe that that is your prerogative. Go right ahead.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 27 2008,08:33)

God is now inseparable from his Vessel, Christ Jesus.

This idea causes problems for me because if Jesus is God's literal vessel, then God had to have experienced everything Jesus experienced?

Can God be tempted?
Can God die?
If they are indeed, “inseparable”?

This idea of Jesus being God's vessel is also akin to incarnation.  I did a quick search of “vessel” and it led me to embodiment/embodied and then to incarnation.  I suppose it takes the verse where it is said, “…a body prepared for me…” to the level of Jesus just being a body to house the incarnate God, himself.

Anyway, back to studing….
Thanks,
Mandy

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