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Welcome Adam John 1:1 In the beginning there was the Word and the Word was God. And the Word was with God. Some fall over the word God. God is a title. There are many God's. Even Satan is called the God of this world.
We also know that nobody has heard or seen the Fathers form. So when you hear God speak it is always the Word.
Col. 1:15 “who is the the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.
verse 16 For by Him all things were created that are in Heaven and that are on the earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
verse 17 And He is before all things and in Him all things consist.
verse 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning the first fruit from the dead, that in all things He may have preeminence.
Rev. 3:14….. These things says the Amen the Faithful and True Witness, the beginning of the creation of God.John 17:5 ” And now O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the Glory which I had with You before the world was.
These Scriptures prove to me that Jesus did preexisted before He became a man. And the Word became flesh and walked amongst us. John 1: 14Peace and Love Mrs.
Thx Seek(Mrs),
I'm happy you also believe in one and only True God the Father. Coming to pre-existence of Jesus I can only understand that he was foreordained by God before the foundations of the world in the plan of God as clearly told by St Peter in 1 Pet 1:20. Therefore the glory which you have quoted in John17:5 is preordained glory not the existing glory. If it so Jesus could have mentioned ' Father give me back my glory which I was having before my birth on this earth'. There is clue in mention the word 'before the foundations of the world'.
God bless you.
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ April 19 2008,20:58) Thx Seek(Mrs),
I'm happy you also believe in one and only True God the Father. Coming to pre-existence of Jesus I can only understand that he was foreordained by God before the foundations of the world in the plan of God as clearly told by St Peter in 1 Pet 1:20. Therefore the glory which you have quoted in John17:5 is preordained glory not the existing glory. If it so Jesus could have mentioned ' Father give me back my glory which I was having before my birth on this earth'. There is clue in mention the word 'before the foundations of the world'.
God bless you.
Adam
Greetings Adam…..I must say “you have focused on one of most discussed topics in this forum,that being the preexistance of Jesus”….I have been struggling with this very question….I like to look at it this way….I would think that as part of Gods' perfect plan for man there would have to be a foundation a beginning to show how man can transition from a carnal existance to that of a spirit and in so doing will be able to become part of the God family…The eternal is one and there is no other…having said that…God is spirit and he created the universe simply by saying let their be light and so on….The spirit is the essense of God,the Word is the means by which he creates…In the beginning was the word and the Word was God,and The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us…Jesus prexisted as the word of the eternal.He became flesh and lived among men exemplyfying Gods' plan for the salvation of men…Ignoring scriptures always takes one in the wrong direction. So it is with this tread and those that do it.
Col. 1:15-18 plainly states that Jesus was there as a Spirit being with the Father before the world was. Jihn 1:1 states it that He was called the Word. He was the one that created all through the powwr of the Father.
Rev. too.
So ignore if you wish, it does not change the fact.
Peace and Love Mrs.Quote (gollamudi @ April 19 2008,20:58) Thx Seek(Mrs),
I'm happy you also believe in one and only True God the Father. Coming to pre-existence of Jesus I can only understand that he was foreordained by God before the foundations of the world in the plan of God as clearly told by St Peter in 1 Pet 1:20. Therefore the glory which you have quoted in John17:5 is preordained glory not the existing glory. If it so Jesus could have mentioned ' Father give me back my glory which I was having before my birth on this earth'. There is clue in mention the word 'before the foundations of the world'.
God bless you.
Adam
How do you equate sharing glory with the foreknowledge of someone's existence?Quote (gollamudi @ April 19 2008,20:58) Thx Seek(Mrs),
I'm happy you also believe in one and only True God the Father. Coming to pre-existence of Jesus I can only understand that he was foreordained by God before the foundations of the world in the plan of God as clearly told by St Peter in 1 Pet 1:20. Therefore the glory which you have quoted in John17:5 is preordained glory not the existing glory. If it so Jesus could have mentioned ' Father give me back my glory which I was having before my birth on this earth'. There is clue in mention the word 'before the foundations of the world'.
God bless you.
Adam
Hi Golla,You've visited one of my favorite threads here! I love this discussion. As you may have already read, I have a bit of a different view than most. But yes, Gene and Adam also share a very close view. I admire both of these brother's and have learned a lot from them.
It sounds like you have reviewd this thread and are ready to go on further. I have a few baseball games to head out to this afternoon, but I will return this evening. Hope to chat with you and talk about this great subject.
Irene (Seek), remember that ignoring your interpretation of scripture is not ignorning the truth or what the bible has to say. Other's are allowed to do exactly what you are doing….having their own interpretation of what the scriptures are saying. Right?
See you all tonight,
MandyQuote (gollamudi @ April 19 2008,20:58) Therefore the glory which you have quoted in John17:5 is preordained glory not the existing glory.
Golla,I agree.
This glory was Jesus' hope.
You hope for what you do not yet have.
It was his reward for obedience unto death.Love,
MandyTo all……> Here's how John 1:1 would be translated in Hebrew according to Jeff Benner Hebrew translations probably would put it..> In the summit(beginning) was the word and the word was with Elohiym [powers]and the word was Elohiym [powers] . The word for God is [Elohiym] and means (powers) a plural of power.
So if (I) were to paraphrase it this it the way i would do it,” in the beginning was the word [intelligent utterance] and the word [intelligent utterance] was with God [Powers ] and the word was [intelligent utterance] was God [Powers] .
And also where is says's the word [became flesh] has to be understood as the word [came to be in flesh], because words are spirit and flesh is not spirit, and indeed the words were in Jesus the Christ. But remember Jesus said the words he spoke were not His, but were the words of Him who sent him. So how could he himself be the word, while he might be the spokesman he himself could not also be the word he spoke because He said they weren't his words.
peace to you all……………..gene
PS……remember there are seven Spirits of God [ powers] that go out into all the earth according to revelations. So the LORD or YHWH [HE exists] GOD or ELOHIYM [POWERS] or simply put The Lord exists with powers. IMO.
peace to all……….gene
Mandy and Gen! Col. 1:15 says that He(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(Father), the FIRSTBORN OVER ALL CREATION.
Question How can that be only in the mind of God?
verse 16 For by Him all things were created that are in Heaven and that are on earth……..
verse 17And He is before things and in Him all things consist.
verse 18 And He is the Head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn of the dead, that in all things He may have preeminence. Look up the word preeminence, it means first in all. So Christ was the firstborn of all creation and the firstborn of the dead.
Rev. 3:14 states this. ” These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, theBEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD.”
I just can not see that this means anything else then what it states.
So it is up to whoever reads this to make up your mind what to believe.Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (seek and you will find @ April 21 2008,14:43) So it is up to whoever reads this to make up your mind what to believe.
Exactly!Thanks for sharing your view point, though. It is much appreciated.
Love,
MandyQuote (Not3in1 @ April 21 2008,14:47) Quote (seek and you will find @ April 21 2008,14:43) So it is up to whoever reads this to make up your mind what to believe.
Exactly!Thanks for sharing your view point, though. It is much appreciated.
Love,
Mandy
This is not my view, it is what the Bible says. Not my words, rather the word of God.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (seek and you will find @ April 22 2008,02:42) Quote (Not3in1 @ April 21 2008,14:47) Quote (seek and you will find @ April 21 2008,14:43) So it is up to whoever reads this to make up your mind what to believe.
Exactly!Thanks for sharing your view point, though. It is much appreciated.
Love,
Mandy
This is not my view, it is what the Bible says. Not my words, rather the word of God.
Peace and Love Irene
Sis,Yes, you are sharing scripture but you are sharing certain verses to prove your point of view. These scriptures can also be interpreted other ways! That is what I mean to say. You have one view, while other's may read the same scriptures and form an entirely different view.
You may not see how they can do this, but they can. Not everyone sees the same thing in scripture that you do. Sometimes we are blown away that someone cannot view scripture the way we do! But that doesn't prove that we are right and they are wrong, the only thing it proves is that the bible can be interpreted different.
I'm wondering why that is? Why can it be interpreted differently? Why isn't it more direct and clear? Obviously God wasn't very good at giving directions…..all his children are going in different directions?
Mandy! Often I have wondered why that is too, when scriptures are so clear, that some will come along and turn it around to suite their belief. Those that have received God's Holy Spirit should at least agree. So why is it that they do not? When it says that the Father is greater then the Son, how come we still have people that still believe in the trinity doctrine. And on and on it goes.
In the conception tread I wrote this. ” One day we will all have the truth, in the millennium the truth will cover the earth like water covers the sea.” Until then we will always disagree in some areas. Does that make one better over the other. No. We all fall short of the glory of God.
Peace and Love Irene
Since the thread is focused on Jesus, I assume that the prevailing view here is that no one (with the possible exception of Jesus) pre-existed in any form before his or her conception or birth, here on earth. So in essence when a couple makes a child that, child's soul or however you define the spiritual portion of the entity, was created simultaneous to the event? Do I have that correct?
Quote (Cato @ April 22 2008,06:20) Since the thread is focused on Jesus, I assume that the prevailing view here is that no one (with the possible exception of Jesus) pre-existed in any form before his or her conception or birth, here on earth. So in essence when a couple makes a child that, child's soul or however you define the spiritual portion of the entity, was created simultaneous to the event? Do I have that correct?
This is my exact belief, yes!Earlier in this thread Nick and I had this exact conversation.
seek and you will find…….In your quote of Col 1:15, remember is say in the (IMAGE) of God. we are all called to become the image of God and we will be sonner ar later. Jesus truly was refelcetiong our Father to us, I have never had a problem with that. Trinitarians do tho because they think Jesus was not imagining God, He was God to them.
peace to you and yours………….gene
Gen. Jesus created the invisible and the invisible. That which in Heaven and which is in the earth. God is a title. There are many God's listed in the O.T. and Satan is the God of this World. Yes it is true that one day we to will be God's. When Jesus gives the Kingdom back to the Father then God will be all in all. So when you take God in perspective you will have no problem and all lines up.
Peace and Love Mrs.
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