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Hi Steve,
The word translated as HE can equally be translated as IT, and has been.
Man's need to respect the Spirit of God sees the word HE used.
So any inferential idea that another person exists in God is on unstable ground.Quote Mr Steve….. did Cryus have a free will to do what God said He would do 200 years before he was born. Does it sound like in Jer 1:5 that He had a choice, Did John the baptist have a choice, Did the apostles have a choice to follow Christ, Jesus said He choose them, they didn't choose Him, Did Judas Iscarot Have a choice seening it was all prophesied that one of the apostles would betray Jesus. Do you believe God Plan of Salvation was based only on Jesus' free will choice. Do you think you by your Free Will can choose you destiny. What you are provicating is self salvation. Jesus said you can't even come to Him unless the Father draw (DRAG) you, and again He (GOD) who begain a work in you will see it to completion. It has nothing to do with (FREE WILL), iT HAS TO DO WITH GOD'S WILL. People who think that way are (I) God's, and think they control their destines.
The Father is the potter we are the clay, He forms Us as He alone see fit. ” for He (GOD) works in US both to WILL and do HIS PLEASURE. God does all things after the council of HIS OWN WILL, your and my so called (FREE WILL) has nothing to do with it. The only one who has a FREE WILL is God the FATHER. We all have choices, but choices are based on cause and effect and all effects were caused, including all our choices. There is NO FREE WILL this idea is provacated by MODERN “CHRISTAINTY” If you are being called and chosen it because of GOD, moving you to from start to finish. The Glory of our salvation goes to GOD the FATHER ONLY.Gene;
You are correct that no man can come to Christ except the Father draw him. Moreover, it is only by the grace of God that mankind in general isn't destroyed by the devil.
However, the fact that God draws does not abolish the free-will of a person to reject him. A person cannot reject what he had no power to accept. If a person had no power to accept, he would not be accountable to God, but would live instinctively like the animals, without a conscience towards God.
The gospel says that the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God and would not be baptized by John the Baptist. Hence, the power to reject is always present even though power has also been given to man to accept.
That is the essence of the entire Bible from the beginning. The prophets were sent from God to nations in an effort for them to repent. Those who would not repent would suffer the consequences. God does not change.
It is so possible to be so steeped in sin to be turned over to a reprobate mind by God. This is essentially God saying that he's through trying to draw the individual because the person has by conduct or expressly rejected God over and over again.
Jesus turned to all the people and his disciples and said that if any man come after me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow him. Those are three voluntary acts that the person must decide to perform on a consistent basis to be saved. So never hold that just because a person does not follow God that God hasn't been trying to draw the person to repentance.
That is the goodness of God. He does not change.
Steven
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 22 2008,16:26) to all…….> i believe God is Spirit and all things came from that spirit, rather good or evil. Your spirit, Jesus' spirit,or anyone else's spirit came from that one source, and when our bodies die the spirit returns to Him who gave it. The question we maybe we should be talking about is what is Spirit. There are some interesting things said about spirit in the bible that seem to indicate it is intellect and is expressed by words. Jesus said the (words) I am speaking are Spirit and (they are life), and He said God was a Spirit, and again “in the beginning was the (word) and the (word) was with GOD and the (word) was GOD. It seems to imply if we have the Spirit in us then God is also in us. Jesus said the Father was in Him, and we are told in another place He had the fullness of the Spirit. It's almost like we are vessels and God can pour Himself into us. Remember when He said “I shall pour forth of my Spirit upon your sons and daughters. We are also compared to temples in which God can Dwell In. I am not sure if it's when we receive His words or we receive the awareness of truth that enables us to recognize God's truth expressed through His words. I believe it's the latter case.
This is a very interesting subject……Peace to all…..gene
We have a body and a spirit that makes us alive.The breath makes us a living soul.
And God saves our soul.
1 Peter 1:9
for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.Revelation 20:4
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.Quote Hi Steve,
The word translated as HE can equally be translated as IT, and has been.
Man's need to respect the Spirit of God sees the word HE used.
So any inferential idea that another person exists in God is on unstable ground.I've heard the “it” proposition before and the argument that certain translations use “it” instead of “he”. Perhaps we can look into the issue with respect to certain examples and gain a better understanding since the titles; holy spirit, holy ghost, spirit of God, whichever we prefer to use do not give us much insight.
We see in John that God gave his spirit without measure to Christ, the fullness of the spirit. But to the believers in Christ, we have only received gifts of the spirit. Hence, the measure of the spirit that we have been given is limited compared to an unlimited measure given to Christ.
In the Old Testament, God said that he would put his spirit in the believers under the New Covenant. Holy men of old were also said to have written the scriptures as moved upon by the holy ghost. In Genesis, the scripture says the spirit of God moved upon the face of the deep.
So what we see in scripture is God inspiring man with his spirit and manifesting himself by his spirit.
The spirit of God is essentially the agency of God whereby God manifests himself to mankind.
Jesus mission under the new covenant was to remove the veil between us and God and cause the scripture that God promised in Jeremiah of putting his spirit in us to be fulfilled. Only believers in Christ can fulfill these scriptures.
So the spirit of God is also the reproductive agency of God. Since we are chiildren of God we are born of God and born by his spirit.
Jesus said he would send the Holy Spirit and he also said the Father would send the spirit. However, you slice it, the Holy Spirit is God because we are only born again by his spirit. So when we refer to the Spirit of God we must be referring to the Holy Spirit.
The view of the Holy Spirit being a separate person is supported by what Jesus said when he said that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit would never be forgiven, but all manner of other sins would be forgiven. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit occurs when a person who witnesses the work of God's Spirit and then accuses the person to be operating under the spirit of the devil.
Jesus also said that the Spirit would not speak of “himself” but of what he heard. If you exchange the word himself for “itself” you still have the spirit not speaking of his own but what he hears he speaks. Considering these are the express teaching of Jesus Christ himself, there is very little room for interpretation.
Jesus also said the Holy Spirit would teach us things to come. How does an “it” teach? How does an “it” hear? How does an “it” lead us into all truth without understanding all truth that “it” hears? Hence, the “it” teaching of the Holy Spirit is scarcely supported by the teachings of Christ or the examples in the scripture where the Holy Ghost was manifest.
Again, John the Baptist did not say that Christ was going to baptize us with himself or with the Father, but the Holy Ghost. So I suggest that the Holy Spirit represents the essence of the person of God himself.
Steven
Mr.Steve…… when Jesus said if anyone come after me He must denie Himself and take up His cross and follow me, he was not implying (Free will) at all but what the process of following Him would take. If anyone has been inlightened by God to see the (Value) of the Kingdom of God He will do what Jesus said, because of the enlightenment, not because of a Free Will or Choice. Jesus also said no man (CAN COME) unto me unless the Father draw (DRAG) Him, where is Free Will in that in that statement. People who believe that their salvation is in their own hands and is a result of their (Free Will ) are simply ( I GOD”S) and fail to see the power of the ONLY TRUE GOD, Jesus told His deciples they did not choose Him He chose them. Show me where one Prophet or prohesied person had a choice about what they were going to do. Did Judas have a choice or was he not predestined to betray Jesus. You put to much power into your own hands and of course if what you say is true then you can take all the credit for your salvation also because it's what you choose the saved you. But if you say your salvation was based on the sole will of God then you can take (NO) credit for it. I say we are saved by the power and might of a God that through His power alone causes us to recieve salvation and through enlightenment of our minds causes the choices we make unto salvation by revelation into our minds, So He along get the gelory for saving us.
IMO………….gene
First on pre-existence, I believe that it makes more sense, not just for Jesus but for all of us, then the thought we are all brought into being spirit or soul at either coneption or birth. As for as salvation, yes it comes from God, as does life, existence, etc. however, we all have the ability to reject or turn away. If we didn't then what is the point of life or existence? We then become automatons wound up by the creator. If all is predestined then why try and struggle for the matter is ultimately out of our hands. Now those who point out certain predictions in the Bible leading to what appears to be certain predestination it may be the effect of omniscience predicting what choices we will make, rather then causing them directly. Just because I can accurately predict something does not imply I am the causitive agent thereof. Without freewill life is without any meaning. This is not to say we take credit for our own salvation for we do not have, as was stated, the power to do so, but rather we can accept the gift or reject it, that is our choice.
Cato…….> you are also saying you choose your own salvation and by
(YOUR) choice you saved yourself. Indirectely are you not saying you are a God unto yourself. You said God somehow looks down the line an knows what choices a person will make anyway. Then if you believe that why say we have (FREE WILL). The only reason you would say that is because you feel you play a part in your own salvation, right?. If we believe we are (Created) unto good works, then why say we choose our good works. Doesen't it say “for it is God who works in Us, to (BOTH) Will and do His pleasure. If it is God then it's not us, no matter how important a part we think we play in our salvation.IMO……….gene
Gen We do have a free will in this, and we could still loose our salvation. That is what Rev. 2:25 will tell us. Hod fast what you have till I come.
verse 26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations–
It is a free gift from God, but we have to except it and hold on to it, or we could loose it. It is not as easy as you pertray it to be. Why would Jesus say that the road is narrow and few will find it?Peace and Love Mrs.
seeking the truth……> where did i say its easy. I never said that, when God elects to save someone there is a lot of cleanning that has to be done to that person, Yes even firey trials to burn away our wrong ideas and habbits,that we have aquired from the world.” For God chasins every one and scourges every son He excepts”. Those who overcome are those God has cleansed with many firey trials and scourgeings. Again pride makes people think they play a more important role then they actually do. There is only (ONE WILL) that is and will be done and it's already done in Heaven and will be done on earth. No does God give man the choice of how, when, where, or through whom He will be saved. Those whom God is working with will choose right because of God presence in them. “For He thats in you is greater then he thats in the world”. Again i repeat “for you are (CREATED) unto good works, God the Father does it and He gets the glory for it, not your or my so called (Free Will). Show me the words (FREE WILL) in scripture or it's up to us to choose our salvation,and ill change my mind . I praise God for Him calling and empowering some at this time to overcome the world, But whom He hardened He hardened that all and they can't do anything about it, again no Free Will here. Man wants to be an (I GOD) so he creates all kind of way to accomplish that. The Man of Sin is a man who sits in the temple of God (are we not temples of God), showing Himself that He is God. All carnel throught makes the self more important then it is. We need to just be thankfull that our God has taken mercy on us and rest in true faith in His power to (CREATE) us they way He wants us to be despite ourselves. IMO
peace to you and yours ……………..gene
Good post Gene.
I think that we have free will to choose the following:
1) God's will
2) Our own desiresGod predestines the paths and destinations.
He doesn't force us to choose which path we will take or where we will end up.
Within the boundaries set by God, we have free will.When your son or daughter says “can I go to the park” you can oblige. Once there, your son ro daughter can play on the swings, slide, or whatever.
You don't expect that your child will ask permission to go on all things.
There are parts of our lives where we jsut do what we want.
But ultimately, we choose the path we travel on and God destines those paths.
Anyway, is there a predestination discussion?
Quote Mr.Steve…… when Jesus said if anyone come after me He must denie Himself and take up His cross and follow me, he was not implying (Free will) at all but what the process of following Him would take. Gene;
There is a difference between an implication and an express representation. For instance, if I tell you it you follow me, it's not going to be without a price, you may question what I am saying and you could argue more than one interpretation.
When Jesus said if you come after me, you must deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow him, the only implication is what would those particular voluntary acts mean, but it is still an express representation that you have to make voluntary decisions.
The essence of the Word of God from cover to cover is God pleading with mankind to turn around and follow him or their will be consequences.
When you came to Christ, did you just find yourself driving to church one day without realizing where you were going first? Do you read the scriptures and then after a couple hours say to yourself, “I can't believe it, I was just sitting there and for some reason I was reading the Bible, I don't know why.” Don't you have to make decisions every day to do what is right.
In the Old Testament, God said I have set before thee this day death and life, choose this day whom you will serve. God will not choose for us, we must make the decision to serve him voluntarily, even after he draws us to the place to decide.
Not everyone that God draws decides to repent and follow him. Jesus said that many will try to follow him and fail for various reasons.
Take Care
Steven
Mr. Steve…..> yes in the old testement God told those Israelites , I lay before you life and death choose life. But did they< NO, they chose death, why, because they did not have a Spritual mind to guide them and they chose death. Again salvation is NOT a matter of Free Will but a Matter of God's Will. God who has power to cause choice in our minds causes our salvation and even drawing (Draging) us to Jesus . You or I play no part in our salvation and are not given any glory for our salvation, that glory belongs to God ALONE and no one else. No where in the scriptures will you fine where Jesus every said He made the right choices on his own, but gave all the glory to God the Father. Jesus said the Father showed Him all things, and was in him doing the work. If we give ourselfs the glory of saving ourselves by our own choices or (free will) then we are robbing God of His Glory for what He is doing in Us. We are His workmanship (CREATED) unto good works. And God is the only Creator there is.
IMHO…….gene
To all…….> if you can realize God took and ordinary human being, no different in any way then you and me, prefected Him, raised Him from the dead, and gave Him eternal life, having nothing special other then God was with him from berth guiding him, you will then connect with Jesus like you never did before. Jesus did not prexist in any form or essence at all, he existed only in the plan and will of God from the foundations of the earth. If he did exist who was he and what was his name. Please doin't speculate or infur titles you can't prove. Show me where it says Jesus Christ existed as a being or person before He was born on earth. It would serve no purpose to reincarnate a existing being, then say he was in all ways just like us, this would be a lie, he would not have been (JUST) like us would He. This lie is why people don't have the hope the could have, if they could only realize Jesus was (really) exactly like you and me in every way . What a work our faither did in Him and this work He can do in us also, the exact same work.
IMO……..peace to all………..gene
Bro Gene,
Good post.
You may remember that I come from the idea that Jesus is the true and literal Son of God. In other words, from his body. However, I've been giving this a lot of thought lately and am wondering if my theory pans out? I've been looking into the virgin birth itself and wondering if it even took place. In the JB they do not believe Mary was considered a “virgin” but only a “young women”. They say that translation was lost. This might be true? And if it is true, then Jesus would be the son of Mary and Joseph. This to me, sounds more likely given the other evidence that Jesus was made just like you and me. It makes more sense in light of the incarnation, that is for darn sure anyway.
John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
Why is this verse so confusing to so many people? The Apostle John is the only one that referred to the Son of God as the “Jesus had asked his disciples this question once,
Mat. 16:13 “When Jesus came into the coast of Caesare’a Philip’pi, he asked his
disciples, saying, whom do men say that I the son of man am?”
v. 15 “He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?”
v. 16 “And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the
living God.”
v. 17 “And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jo’na:
for flesh and blood has not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in
heaven.”
This verse tells us more then just the fact that God revealed to Peter who Jesus was; it lets us know where understanding of the bible comes from; God. Without his Holy Spirit we would have no understanding of his Word, except for the historical data contained in it. Hear is what Paul had to say,
1 Cor. 2:9 “But as it is written, Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered
into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love
him.”
v. 10 “But God has revealed them unto us (believers) by his Spirit: for the Spirit
searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.”
v. 11 “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in
him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man but the Spirit of God.”
v. 12 “Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God;
that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.”
Have you ever ask yourself; why are there so many denominations? Should not all Ministers teach the same? They all teach from Word” of the O.T., “Logos” in Greek. The
I believe, anyone that reads Col. 1:15 and 18, and does not believe what it says, it’s not because it is to complicate to understand, it is a simple case of rejecting truth.
Preeminence is to be the first in everything. You can read about the beginning of Gods creation, his Son, in the book of Proverbs; it is easiest understood when you read it in the JAMES MOFFAT translation;
Prov. 8:22 “ The Eternal formed me first of his creation, first of all his works in days of old;”
v. 23 “ I was fashioned in the earliest ages, from the very first, when earth began;”
v. 24 “ I was born when there were no abysses, when there were no fountains full of Son was the “Spokesman”, the “Word” for God, in the O.T. as well as in the N.T. Jesus told us,
John 5:37 “And the Father himself, which has sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.”
“Logos” or “the Word” are titles for a spokesperson, who is speaking on the behalf of the one that send him.
Rev. 19:13 “And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.”
For any one to think that the “Word” was just a thought in God’s mind, and became the “Word” when he spoke his mind, is just plain ridiculous. It would then have to be understood that God spoke his thought into Mary and it became his Son. It would also mean that when the Son had finished his work here on earth, he ask the Father to become a thought in his mind again, right?
John 17:4 “I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.”
v. 5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
Does it not make you wonder were our scholars and theologians got these glorious ideas from? Did you notice how v. 5 ended? Before the world was. Jesus is telling us that he existed long before the world was, because,
Col. 1:16 “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him.”
How can we ignore the fact that God gave his Son; that God sent his son?
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son…”
v. 17 “For God sent not his Son into the world…”
These scriptures tell us that God had a Son whom he send into our world. Pay close attention to what the next two verses are saying.
Luke 8:27 “And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils a long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.”
v. 28 “When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, what have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.”
The demons knew who Jesus was, the son, not God. They knew him from the time of creation, they were there, they shouted for joy.
Job 38:4 “Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding.”
v. 7 “When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy.”
Demons had not always been demons.
And then there are those that go to the other extreme and say, Jesus had no beginning, he always existed with the Father as a coequal. Read only the next three scriptures.
Col. 1:15 “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.”
Col. 3:10 “And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the
image (Jesus) of him (the Father) that created him.”
Rev. 3:14 “…These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the
beginning of the creation of God.”
Every parent knows what a firstborn is. Does any one not know what an image is? An image is some thing you make after some thing or some one. Who is the one that created him? Would you agree it is the Creator? How do you explain, he, Jesus, is the beginning of the creation of God?
How can we after reading all these scriptures, still insist that Jesus coexisted with the Father from all eternity? Jesus was made in the image of the Father.
Luke 20:24 “Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar’s.”
That penny had a picture on it, made in the image of Caesar. Jesus was made in the image of the Father. The Father is spirit in nature so is Jesus. Adam was created in the image of God,
Gen. 1:26 “And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness…”
But Adam was flesh not spirit; a different nature; so what is Adam’s image? What is it that the Father, the Son and us humans have in common? A Mind! Also called a spirit,
1 Cor. 2:11 “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”
God is a thinker, a planer and creator, and so are we; God made us that way, in his image; he has even given us the power to procreate. Jesus was not only the first to receive life, but also the first to live again after death.
Col. 1:18 “ And he is the head of the body, the church; who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”water;”
v. 25 “ ere he sunk the bases of the mountains, ere the hills existed, I was born,”
v. 26 “ when earth and fields were not created, nor the very first clods of the World.”
v. 27 “ When he set the heaven up, I was there, when he drew the Vault o’er the abyss,”
v. 28 “ when he made the clouds firm overhead, when he fixed the fountains of the deep.”
v. 29 “ when he set the boundaries of the sea, when he laid foundations for the earth;”
v. 30 “ I was with him then, his foster child, I was his delight day
after day, playing in His presence constantly.”
Read what Paul is teaching the saints.
Acts 13:33 “God has fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second Psalms, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.”
You just read the account of the first time God raised up his Son, Prov. 8:23-30. The second time was from the dead. You have to be blind if you can’t see who is being talked about hear. That is exactly why we read in,
John 1:1 “ In the beginning was the Word… (Jesus was the Word).”
When we read in;
Gen. 1:1 “ In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth…”
We have no problem understanding that the earth or the universe for that matter did not always existed, that they had a beginning; why then do we give “ beginning“ a different meaning when it comes to the Son of God, Jesus Christ? Do we think we dishonor Jesus by believing the truth? Or do we think we honor Jesus more by raising him to the same level of his Father? The Father has already raised the son to the highest position; if we try to do more we dishonor the Father.
Someone called Jesus good once.
Luke 18:18 “And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
Jesus rebuked him by saying,
v. 19 “And Jesus said unto him, why callest thou me good? None is good, save one, that is, God.”
If Jesus were God he would have never denied being good. That of course does not imply that he wasn’t.
Heb. 10:12 “But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down
on the right hand of God.” (Highest position of honor)
We acknowledge the fact that Jesus came to save us, but we also say that he was both flesh and spirit. Why is that false? It would have made Jesus a mixture of two natures; he would have been a hybrid. God hates perversion of his creation; he destroyed the world with a flood once because of it.
Gen. 6:1 “And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth,
and daughters were born unto them.”
v. 2 “That the sons of God (angels) saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and
they took them wives of all which they chose.”
v. 4 “There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of
God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”
v. 7 “And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the
earth…”
v. 12 “And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had
corrupted his way upon the earth.”
These are not Satan’s demons that corrupted God’s way, these are angels that looked down from heaven and were tempted by the beauty of the woman. Read what Jude and Peter have to say,
Jude 6 “And the angels which kept not their first estate (heaven), but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.”
v. 7 “Even as Sodom and Gomor’rha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving
themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh…”
2 Peter 2:4 “For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.”
These angels that sinned, corrupting God’s creation, apparently committed a greater sin than Satan and his demons. God locked them up in a prison, and would not allow them to roam the world. God was angry; he did not create humans to become half spirit, or spirit beings to become half humans. God created all after their kind,
Gen. 1:21 “And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.”
v. 24 “And God said, let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, and
creeping things, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.”
v. 25 “And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind,
and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.”
After their kind meaning their nature. Paul gives us this explanation;
1 Cor. 15:39 “All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men,
another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.”
v. 40 “There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial; but the glory of the
celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.”
God created all things for His glory. So then, why did God spared Noah and his family?
Gen. 6:9 “These are the generations of Noah; Noah was a just man and perfect in his
generation, and Noah walked with God.”
What does “perfect in his generations” mean? Noah and his family were the only pure humans left; all others flesh had been corrupted. To mix two kinds creates a hybrid and is an insult to God. The bible does tell us that Jesus was not a mixture of two natures,
Heb. 2:16 “For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the
seed of Abraham.(flesh)”
Jesus came to ransom Adam from the grave and all of us. Adam was flesh, and Jesus had to be of the same nature as the one he was coming to redeem. And only someone that was not affected by Adam’s sin could accomplish this. Adam’s sin made him unclean,
Job 14:4 “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean?”
Rom. 5:12 “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and so death passed
upon all men, for that all have sinned.”
Rom. 6:23 “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord,”
Jesus said he came to ransom many.
Matt. 20:28 “Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.”
What is a ransom? During wartime prisoners of war were ransomed for other prisoners of war, it was an exchange. Jesus came to trade places with Adam. Jesus took Adams sin, and placed it on himself, freeing Adam from the grave, and taking his place in the grave. God gave Jesus back his true nature, spirit, the flesh body of Christ remained in the grave, and so the penalty for sin was paid. God of course disposed of the body for obvious reasons. People have worshiped religious objects for centuries. Crosses with bone fragments of saints are especially sought after. Many Christians consider the shroud of Turin the most holy object, worthy of worship. Can you imagine how people would have treaded the body of Christ, had God left him in the tomb?
We are all sinners and deserve death but for now we die for Adam’s sin; or how would you explain the death of infants and little children that know no sin. If we were to die for our sins now, then these little ones should live at least until they have committed a sin. Our only hope was in Jesus Christ who was not of our nature and not effected by the curse of death. God changed his spirit body into a human body; this change did not affect his mind, for he knew who he was, where he came from and why he had come. Jesus knew about his mission from creation,
Rev. 13:8 “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the earth.”
Although tempted in all things he remained sinless, it was his body that took on our sins, and he became sin for us. In his spirit, his mind, in his heart, he remained without sin.
2 Cor. 5:21 “For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be
made the righteousness of God in him.”
Failure was not an option; it would have meant the end of his existence as well as all of ours. Jesus
experienced all the things we do in our life, real thirst, real hunger, real pain and death.
Heb. 2:18 “For that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them
that are tempted.”
Heb. 4:15 “For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of
our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.”
Jesus endured it all because his mind was on the eternal not on the temporal.
Heb. 12:2 “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that
was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the
right hand of the throne of God.”
Jesus died and was placed in a tomb; after three days and three nights, God raised him up. Jesus was given back his true nature, spirit. His flesh body had taken on all of our sins, was no longer needed and God disposed of it. And why should that have surprised any one, that his body was gone? God did tell us ahead of time, he would not allow his body to decay.
Ps. 16:10 “For thou wilt not leave my soul (body) in hell (grave); neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption (decay).”
And Paul does explain,
2 Cor. 5:16 “Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.”
Jesus no longer looked the same, which also explains why all his friends did not recognize him by sight,
John 20:15 “Jesus said unto her (Mary Magdalene), Woman, why weepest thou? Whom
seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have born him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.”
John 21:4 “But when the morning now was come, Jesus stood on the shore; but the
disciples knew not that it was Jesus.”
Luke 24:15 “And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned,
Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.”
v. 16 “But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.”
Jesus in his spirit body does not look anything like his flesh body that is why all paintings and portraits of him are wrong; including the shroud of Turin. Had God allowed an image of his son to appear on that shroud; He would have violated his own second commandment. The fact that Jesus rose from the dead is our hope, because he has the keys to unlock the doors to our graves,
Rev. 1:18 “I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell (grave) and of death.”
1 Cor. 15:22 “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.”
v. 23 “But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they t y that have done good, unto the resurrection; and they
that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
For many people that have done great evil to others, it may very well be a resurrection of damnation. As all will be resurrected with the same thinking, the same attitudes, as when they died.
Ezek. 16:53 “When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters, and the captivity of Samaria and her daughters, then will I bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them.”
v. 54 “That thou mayest bear thine own shame, and mayest be confounded in all that thou hast done, in that thou art a comfort unto them.”
v. 55 “When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.”
Ezekiel is saying, not only will Israel and Judah be restored, resurrected, but Sodom and Samaria, meaning all evil nations will be restored to their former estate as well. All will awake from their grave, thinking they only been sleeping a few hours.
All will be required to repent and ask for forgiveness, there may be those that have done such evil deeds that they can’t or want repent, nor ask for forgiveness; their fait is sealed. The resurrection of the dead will occur during the thousand-year reign of Christ, the Millennium. God designed this period so that all mankind would have the opportunity to learn the truth. It will be the time when Christ will judge the world. But judgment does not come before a trial. We read in,
1 Peter 4:17 “For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and
if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God.”
Judgment means teaching, testing, and trials, proving you are worthy to receive the gift of God, eternal life. The house of God is his Church, the body of Christ, the Saints. Judgment was on them first because they would reign with Christ. For all others their time of judgment will be during the millennium. The end of them that obey not the gospel during the millennium is also mentioned in,
Acts 3:23 “And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet,
shall be destroyed from among his people.”
Which of course is the second death, eternal death; from which there is no resurrection. This raises a question; who has your allegiance; your Church, your Minister or God? Remember,
Is. 8:20 “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is
because there is no light (understanding) in them.”
Also keep in mind what Paul says in,
1 Thes. 5:21 “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.”
It is more than good advice!Mr. IM4TRUTH
Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 06 2008,18:35) Prov. 8:22 “ The Eternal formed me first of his creation, first of all his works in days of old;”
v. 23 “ I was fashioned in the earliest ages, from the very first, when earth began;”
v. 24 “ I was born when there were no abysses, when there were no fountains
If these verses are speaking of the preexisting Jesus – then why didn't God mention Jesus specifically in Genesis when all of this was occuring?Mandy It accord before the world was created. Somebody once told me that He felt that John should really be the first Book of the Bible. I agree with that. Who do you think us was in Genesis. The only two beings besides the Angels was the Word and the Father. Why the Word was not called Jesus then it does not say. But it does say that the Word became flesh. So we know that it was Jesus. He was begotten of the Father. The whole Gospel of John speaks of Jesus if you read on.
John 17: 5 states Glorify me with the Glory which I had with you before the world was. He was there before the world was. I already wrote all of this to you before.
Col. 1:15-16-18 also shows that Jesus existed before the world began. Rev. 3:14 all speak of the firstborn of all creation. To many scriptures for me to deny it. That is all Mandy I will not write this to you again. You either belief what scriptures tell you or not, it is your choice. I made my Choice and it was not easy for me either. Nothing seems to be easy lately around here.
Hope you are feeling better, will pray for you .
Peace and Love Irene
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