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Mr. Steve…..> Bowing to Jesus' authority is one thing, worshiping Him is quite another, while we are told we should bow to his Autrority but only to the (GLORY) of God, NOWHERE are we told to worship him. Worship is reserved for a DEITY a GOD, while bowing can be to anyone in authority, and Jesus has authority given him by GOD.
Jesus did not perform anything by the power given Him, He preformed them by the power in Him, i.e. (GOD was in Him), God even spoke in first person at times through Jesus' mouth. i.e, “Destory this temple and in three days I (GOD) will raise it up. Jesus did not raise himself up from the grave it was GOD who raised Him up. Just as it says in three or four different places. God who is SPIRIT indwelt Jesus the man, Just as He does in all who have His Spirit in them, “GOD WORKS in US to WILL and DO HIS PLEASURE. Why can't you and WJ understand that. IT”S clear that GOD (One God) may be in (ALL)through (ALL). Jesus PLAINLY said the FATHER IN ME HE DOTH THE WORK'S and said the son of man could do nothing of HIMSELF.
God gives HIS POWERS TO NO ONE, He grants requests to Us and then performs them if they are in accordance with His WILL. It was the same with the apostles and Jesus and even Us today. Read what Joel said, GOD (GRANTS) favors to Us and then He preforms them.
Why do you want to Steal THE SOVEREGINTY OF GOD. HIS power to perfom and create these things He GIVES TO NO MAN, these things are to His glory not man's.When you say Jesus was not a puppet , you are trying to teach (FREE WILL) Jesus Had to put HIM (WILL) to death or He could have not did the things He did. There is no such thing as free will, there is only one Will that will be done and thats the Fathers. People who espouse (FREE WILL) are (I) GOD”S. They like to thing they have a say in their destiny's, but the fact is GOD is in complete control ao all destiny's, yours and mine, Just as He was and is in control of Jesus'.
FOR GOD WORK”S IN US BOTH TO WILL AND DO HIS PLEASURE. Jesus knew that only one will mattered and told Us to pray “Thy kingdom come (THY WILL) be done in earth as it is in Heaven. People who think it's up to them to determine there futures are trying to take GOD's Place in their lives they have became a GOd to themselves.IMO…….gene
Quote When you say Jesus was not a puppet , you are trying to teach (FREE WILL) Jesus Had to put HIM (WILL) to death or He could have not did the things He did. There is no such thing as free will, there is only one Will that will be done and thats the Fathers. Gene;
Did Jesus have a choice to obey the Father? How could he claim to have pleased the Father in all things if he had no choice? If that were the case he would not have been a true Son, he would have been God himself, which contradict what even you believe, and a denial that Christ is the Son of God, a belief that must be held as a pre-requisite for salvation.
Steven
Gene;
In addition to the above, you admit that he had to put his own will aside when it conflicted with the will of the Father. So did he consciously put his own will aside? He must have because he prayed not my will but thine be done. You have to choose to do the Will of God, it doesn't happen otherwise.
Mr Steve….. did Cryus have a free will to do what God said He would do 200 years before he was born. Does it sound like in Jer 1:5 that He had a choice, Did John the baptist have a choice, Did the apostles have a choice to follow Christ, Jesus said He choose them, they didn't choose Him, Did Judas Iscarot Have a choice seening it was all prophesied that one of the apostles would betray Jesus. Do you believe God Plan of Salvation was based only on Jesus' free will choice. Do you think you by your Free Will can choose you destiny. What you are provicating is self salvation. Jesus said you can't even come to Him unless the Father draw (DRAG) you, and again He (GOD) who begain a work in you will see it to completion. It has nothing to do with (FREE WILL), iT HAS TO DO WITH GOD'S WILL. People who think that way are (I) God's, and think they control their destines.
The Father is the potter we are the clay, He forms Us as He alone see fit. ” for He (GOD) works in US both to WILL and do HIS PLEASURE. God does all things after the council of HIS OWN WILL, your and my so called (FREE WILL) has nothing to do with it. The only one who has a FREE WILL is God the FATHER. We all have choices, but choices are based on cause and effect and all effects were caused, including all our choices. There is NO FREE WILL this idea is provacated by MODERN “CHRISTAINTY” If you are being called and chosen it because of GOD, moving you to from start to finish. The Glory of our salvation goes to GOD the FATHER ONLY.IMO……….gene
I worship Jesus as King of kings and Lord of lords, as my Saviour, my Redeemer, as the Word of God.
I worship my Father as my Father.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 21 2008,12:59) Hi Oxy,
So you have given up on the trinity theory?
Do you still tag me as a trinitarian? After all the discussions??My beliefs are simple. I believe in one God, the Father of us and the instigator of creation. I believe in the Word of God who was God and was with God. He was the Creator. I also believe in the Holy Spirit who sustains creation, and reveals God to us.
But when Jesus prayed, He asked to be restored to His former glory that He had with the Father in the beginning. In the beginning He was God and was with God.
So my conclusion is that yes, God is one, but God is also Father, His Son and Holy Spirit.
Not co-equal, for the Father has ultimate authority. The Son has been given authority over creation, the Holy Spirit makes known to us the things of God.
Hi Oxy,
Is Christ called the creator in scripture?
I believe God alone is the Creator, and as with all things they are done through Christ.
Is the Spirit not the Spirit of God given through Christ to us unifying us in Christ with the Father?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 21 2008,14:23) Hi Oxy,
Is Christ called the creator in scripture?
I believe God alone is the Creator, and as with all things they are done through Christ.
Is the Spirit not the Spirit of God given through Christ to us unifying us in Christ with the Father?
Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.I agree, God was the Creator, but the Word was God, remember?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 21 2008,14:24) ps
Matthew 10:20
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
So if the Holy Spirit is the Father, why does Scripture make a distinction between the Father and the Spirit of God?Why doesn't the Scripture say
Matthew 10:20
For it is not ye that speak, but your Father which speaketh in you.Hi Oxy,
You should agree with Peter
Matthew 16:16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.Quote (Oxy @ Jan. 21 2008,12:35) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 21 2008,14:24) ps
Matthew 10:20
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
So if the Holy Spirit is the Father, why does Scripture make a distinction between the Father and the Spirit of God?Why doesn't the Scripture say
Matthew 10:20
For it is not ye that speak, but your Father which speaketh in you.
Hi Oxy,
Because God IS IN heaven and manifests among men as HIS SPIRIT.ps
As he said of his role
John 14:10
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 21 2008,14:37) Quote (Oxy @ Jan. 21 2008,12:35) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 21 2008,14:24) ps
Matthew 10:20
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
So if the Holy Spirit is the Father, why does Scripture make a distinction between the Father and the Spirit of God?Why doesn't the Scripture say
Matthew 10:20
For it is not ye that speak, but your Father which speaketh in you.
Hi Oxy,
Because God IS IN heaven and manifests among men as HIS SPIRIT.
I agree!! The Father sends His Holy Spirit to us. If there was not a Holy Spirit, He could not be sent!Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 21 2008,17:11) Hi Oxy,
So God send HIS SPIRIT.
He calls it MY SPIRIT in Jl2.
But you think it is another person??
I don't see what the problem is Nick. God sent His Son, God also sent His Holy Spirit.Nick, I have had similar discussions with a number of people. I have learned that those who have not been baptised in the Holy Spirit, evidenced by the gift of tongues and other miracles, will deny the person of the Holy Spirit, whereas those who have been baptised in the Holy Spirit and have the gifts of the Spirit, including tongues, recognise the person of the Holy Spirit.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 21 2008,17:40) Hi Oxy,
Really?
Then let me be the odd one out.
Your choice Nick, but it doesn't have to be that way.Consider this. If you ask God to fill you with His Holy Spirit, what harm can it do? We know that God is good, and if I am right perchance, then you will be blessed beyond what you currently experience.
If I am wrong, God will not do you harm or bestow you with evil.
You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
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