Preexistence

[Morningstar]

Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 22 2007,16:44)

Morningstar,Oct. wrote: Quote There were two distinct traditions with the Jews.  Jesus quotes the septuagint himself. Guess which tradition he favored. You mean the angel/god man forgot how to read Hebrew?   Which parts of the Septuagint did he quote from? Because the only version of the Septuagint around in the first part of the 1st century was the Torah. The rest of the Septuagint came much later. Most scholars feel the other books past the Torah was translated by Christians because the Jews didn't want anything more to do with it.

I seriously suggest you check your history on this.

I am saying that in hebrew and aramaic existed two traditions of manuscripts. The septuagint follows one and the masoretic follows another.

Jesus and the apostles follow the septuagint pratically exclusively.

So you misunderstood me.

So I ask why do we use different manuscripts than Jesus and the apostles when both were available to them and they chose the tradition of the septaugint?

Why do christians use the masoretic text?

Because Jerome bought a lie from Jewish scribes that reflect your ideas of the septuagint being late poor translations. This was some 400 years later.

When the truth, confirmed by archaelogy, is that two distinct traditions existed. Well most people followed the septuagint tradition including the synagogues until about 100 AD.

When the Jews had to establish an official canon and be sure to eliminate and use texts that differed from the christians. Thus choosing officially the alternate tradition.

The christians were using the septuagint to effectively in their converting.

[kenrch]

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 22 2007,10:55)

Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 22 2007,01:36) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 21 2007,22:01) Was this so-called thought WITH God, or in God? WITH or IN? If the Logos was WITH God, then that makes it hard to argue for it being a thought in God. Also if the LOGOS is a thought, and that thought became flesh, then Yeshua must be flesh itself. But he had a soul, just as we do. We are body, soul, spirit. Was Yeshua just flesh? No. He became like us. He wasn't less than us, just a flesh thing. No HE came in the flesh. t8 your child started with a thought IS if thought the definition of WORD doesn't fit then what does? Ken there are many things we do not know. E.g., could you disprove that mens souls are the thoughts of God? The point is that we may derive from God, but we have been given a will that we can call our own. It is truly the only thing that we own or that defines us as being different to God, and not some attribute or extension of him. Jesus also has a will. The question is when did he have his own will? When he was WITH God or when he was born as a man? Or was it at some other time? Does a man's soul exist outside of God's thought? Can we think of anything that God hasn't thought of? But our will defines us not as God or an attribute of God, but as me, you, etc. We can only choose what is already of God and accumulate this in a unique way. This is our character. It is what we choose to reflect of God. Of course we can also choose that which is not of God, but that is beside the point.

I don't believe anything exists outside of the thoughts of God.  If we were to escape God's thoughts then everything would stop to exists.  This is why we have no sin because the Father does not give our sin any thought thanks be to Jesus Amen!

Everything is in God, He knows when a sparrow falls because even the smallest things are IN God.  In His thoughts.  In Him we live and have our being.

Act 17:26  And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Act 17:27  That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Act 17:28  For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

You believe that Jesus preexisted because the WORD was WITH God.  In what form was the WORD with God?  Scripture does not say SON it Says WORD.  

Have you ever heard that my thoughts are with you.  Are Our thoughts as God's thoughts?

God Creates by speaking things into existence.  Surely He thinks before He speaks.

How was Jesus His Son before He was flesh?  Does God have a wife as some religions think?

In the beginning of this creation, this is what the letter from God is all about~this new creation~His Children~ we are like no other creation of God being His born children.  This being said then how was Jesus His Son before the creation of flesh.

When His letter speaks of creation does it speak of before flesh?  YES!  Before the foundation Jesus was in Him and WE in Jesus.

Eph 1:4  According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Did Jesus preexist in the form of His Son.  I say Amen!  Was Jesus A thought of God waiting to happen.  I say Amen!

Either way the Son died for us so we would live as God's children and to this I say AMEN!

God Bless t8,

Ken

[Not3in1]

Ken,

Wonderful, wonderful post! I agree wholeheartedly.

Quote

This is why we have no sin because the Father does not give our sin any thought thanks be to Jesus Amen!

Interesting. It's not that we do not sin, but that because of Jesus – the Father remembers our sin no more! Wow. This is a basic that I think we forget sometimes until someone puts it down in writing and then it pops up from the screen and hits you square in the head (like it did me this morning). Thanks, Ken. God bless you as you keep bringing these truths to the rest of us.

[Mr. Steve]

To All;

When you get to know someone one of the first things you learn about the person is where the person is from.  In John 7:27, some of them in Jerusalem posed a question, they said, “we know this man, but when Christ cometh, no man knoweth whence he is.”  Jesus tried to tell them repeatedly that he came down from heaven.  Somehow they just could not understand that truth, because they knew his mother and father.  He was trying to tell them that Mary was not his origin.  God used Mary to prepare the body of Christ when he came into the world, but Christ as the Son of God already existed with God and was sent from above.  The soul and spirit of Christ were already in existence with the Father.  

After Mary conceived the body of Christ known as that holy thing, the Father sent Jesus down from heaven into her womb and Christ became a man, but he was already the Son of God prior.

I'm beginning to see that if this truth is missed, we miss the essence of the Gospel of John.  Specifically, where Christ is from, who he was and is, his purpose, and his plan for all of us.  

The words “truth” and “believe” appeared more in the gospel of John than in all the other gospels combined.  So the message of God contained in John becomes the foundation for what be believe and embrace as truth.

If Jesus said he was before with God, should we question how he was with God. Believe what he says first, your understanding will come later. He did not say he was an angel or a thought, he said he was “he” the Son of God by saying he was with his Father.  He said he was with God before, so the truth is Jesus Christ the Son of God was with God prior.  End of truth.  Don't ask God for more understanding before believing what he says is true.

The most important truth is believing in him who was sent from God.  Indeed, Jesus said this is the work of God that ye believe in him who he has sent. So when Jesus says he is the Son of God, we believe it.  But why when he says he is from above, we do not embrace the truth?  

When we reject truth we reject the words of life that cause us to grow spiritually.  The words Christ spoke are spirit and they are life. Unless we believe his words we have no life in us. Rejection causes hardness and bitterness, whereby many are defiled.  

Lets not go there. Believe the truth.

Steven

[GeneBalthrop]

Morningstar……> many Scholars disagree with you as to the corruption of our present New Testement texts, In fact Mills a very highly respected critical scholar found over 20,000 errors in our present text's.
If you care to get the book, MISQUOTING JESUSBart D. Ehrman, it's quite eye opening as to how the texts were changed over time.

And lets not forget at one time Half of the Roman Empire believed the bible translations one way (Arian) and half another (Anthanian). The Idea of Jesus as (HOMONUSIOUS) is a pagan concept and introduced by a pagan, Emperor Constantine at the council Nacia 325 AD. The scriptures eventually became so corrupted the RCC even printed their own bible the Vulgate the most corrupt translation ever printed. So to think our translations haven't been tampered with is beign naive to say the lest.

I truly believe that the biggest coruption in bible texts is to create the Idology that Jesus was and is Not exactly like we are, this seperation of our identies is what is behind the corruption of the texts.

IMO……gene

[Not3in1]

Quote (Mr. Steve @ Oct. 23 2007,04:57)

God used Mary to prepare the body of Christ when he came into the world, but Christ as the Son of God already existed with God and was sent from above. The soul and spirit of Christ were already in existence with the Father.

Brother Steven,

Of course I respectfully disagree.

You deny true conception with your ideas of preexistence and and subsequent incarnation. Jesus was conceived, not conjured-up or concocted.

According to your theory, the preexistent Christ grew along-side-of Mary's contribution (DNA), is this correct? Thanks.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 23 2007,05:15)

Quote (Mr. Steve @ Oct. 23 2007,04:57) God used Mary to prepare the body of Christ when he came into the world, but Christ as the Son of God already existed with God and was sent from above.  The soul and spirit of Christ were already in existence with the Father. Brother Steven, Of course I respectfully disagree. You deny true conception with your ideas of preexistence and and subsequent incarnation.  Jesus was conceived, not conjured-up or concocted. According to your theory, the preexistent Christ grew along-side-of Mary's contribution (DNA), is this correct?  Thanks.

not3

No one here is denying his natural conception.

Jesus was both “Flesh” and “Spirit” just like we are.

We believe that Yeshua who existed as spirit with the Father before the foundation of the world came into the flesh at the moment of conception.

Acoording to Jn 1:14 and Heb 10:5-7 and Phil 2:6-8 and Rom 8:3.

How is that any different than what you believe.

You talk about “True conception” as being concieved like us.

Yet you say he was not concieved like us for the Father was his daddy and not man.

Well how can you say your idea of conception is right and everyone else is wrong.

Again you say he is a divine man, which means his conception was not like ours was it?

You say he is a mixture of God and man, which would make him a God/man!

Scriptures support his preexistence.

[Morningstar]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 23 2007,05:05)

Morningstar……> many Scholars disagree with you as to the corruption of our present New Testement texts, In fact Mills a very highly respected critical scholar found over 20,000 errors in our present text's. If you care to get the book, MISQUOTING JESUSBart D. Ehrman, it's quite eye opening as to how the texts were changed over time. And lets not forget at one time Half of the Roman Empire believed the bible translations one way (Arian) and half another (Anthanian). The Idea of Jesus as (HOMONUSIOUS) is a pagan concept and introduced by a pagan, Emperor Constantine at the council Nacia 325 AD. The scriptures eventually became so corrupted the RCC even printed their own bible the Vulgate the most corrupt translation ever printed. So to think our translations haven't been tampered with is beign naive to say the lest. I truly believe that the biggest coruption in bible texts is to create the Idology that Jesus was and is Not exactly like we are, this seperation of our identies is what is behind the corruption of the texts. IMO……gene

Oh, I agree. I am well aware of the corruption.

But, whether or not there are corruptions has nothing to do with which tradition of manuscripts the new testament follows. It follows the tradition as found in the Septuagint.

[Morningstar]

I dont think scholars are disagreeing with me.

I think that you were under the assumption that I believed the New Testament was without corruptions.

The septuagint is the tradition the NT follows even with textual corruptions in it. It's obvious, just read pratically every OT quote in it.

Read Isaiah 9:6 in the OT of the septuagint and it tells you exactly who christ is and clears up this preexistence bit.

Isaiah 9
6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel:

(Angel of great counsel)

for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. 7 His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: it shall be upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to support it with judgment and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. The seal of the Lord of hosts shall perform this.

Now, our Lord Jesus Christ is a Counsellor in a three-fold sense. First, he is God’s Counsellor; he sits in the cabinet council of the King of heaven; he has admittance into the privy chamber, and is the Counsellor with God.

In the second place, Christ is a Counsellor in the sense which the Septuagint translation appends to this term. Christ is said to be the angel of the great council. He is a Counsellor in that he communicates to us in God’s behalf, what has been done in the great council before the foundation of the world.

And thirdly, Christ is a Counsellor to us and with us, because we can consult with him, and he doth counsel and advise us as to the right way and the path of peace.

Exodus 23:20

20 “Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. 21Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him.

[/U]

[Not3in1]

Hi WJ,

Quote

No one here is denying his natural conception.

In order to believe the Trinity, you have to deny natural conception. Natural conception mixes DNA of both parents to create a new being. If Jesus always existed as the second person of the One God, then when he was transfered into the womb of Mary and underwent *true* conception……he would be altered; no longer existing in the same way that he did before. Trinitarians do not believe this happened, therefore they deny *true* conception.

Quote

Yet you say he was not concieved like us for the Father was his daddy and not man. Well how can you say your idea of conception is right and everyone else is wrong. Again you say he is a divine man, which means his conception was not like ours was it?

I've had this converstaion with David a few times. What it boils down to is the “virgin” part of the conception is the miracle for all things are possible with God. However, Mary's conception and subsequent pregnancy went as status quo. The angel, Gab, even likened her pregnancy unto her cousins pregnancy (also a miracle). But Jesus was born in the usual fashion and was the Son of his parents.

God provided what was needed (sperm). This is what a “source” does (they provided what is needed).

Tell me, WJ, what is more likely:
1. God miraculously provided a sperm so that he could father a child in the natural order of things so that all would understand that the holy child to be born was indeed the Son of God; the firstfruit of all that would follow?
OR
2. God seperated his three persons, incarnated one of them into a womb of a virgin where this person grew side-by-side with humanity. Being careful not to follow the standard for true conception – this being did not mix with the human DNA to become a new individual, but instead only took on flesh and remained what it was previous to conception? Being born God in flesh, instead of a true son of his parents?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 23 2007,08:44)

Hi WJ, Quote No one here is denying his natural conception. In order to believe the Trinity, you have to deny natural conception.  Natural conception mixes DNA of both parents to create a new being.  If Jesus always existed as the second person of the One God, then when he was transfered into the womb of Mary and underwent *true* conception……he would be altered; no longer existing in the same way that he did before.  Trinitarians do not believe this happened, therefore they deny *true* conception. Quote Yet you say he was not concieved like us for the Father was his daddy and not man. Well how can you say your idea of conception is right and everyone else is wrong. Again you say he is a divine man, which means his conception was not like ours was it? I've had this converstaion with David a few times.  What it boils down to is the “virgin” part of the conception is the miracle for all things are possible with God.  However, Mary's conception and subsequent pregnancy went as status quo.  The angel, Gab, even likened her pregnancy unto her cousins pregnancy (also a miracle).  But Jesus was born in the usual fashion and was the Son of his parents. God provided what was needed (sperm).  This is what a “source” does (they provided what is needed).   Tell me, WJ, what is more likely: 1.  God miraculously provided a sperm so that he could father a child in the natural order of things so that all would understand that the holy child to be born was indeed the Son of God; the firstfruit of all that would follow? OR 2.  God seperated his three persons, incarnated one of them into a womb of a virgin where this person grew side-by-side with humanity.  Being careful not to follow the standard for true conception – this being did not mix with the human DNA to become a new individual, but instead only took on flesh and remained what it was previous to conception?  Being born God in flesh, instead of a true son of his parents?

not3

Neither!

For you are totally ignoring that Jesus is also Spirit!

Again you say his conception is a true conception but a true conception involves a man and a woman. Not a God and a woman.

So in other words you can not claim your interpretation of true conception is the only way,

God provides the sperm for every life. If he did this in Mary than why would Jesus be any different than us.

There is no scripture that says he provided the Sperm for Mary. Speculation. Even if he did, again that would only be part of who Jesus was for he is also Spirit.

Is it possible that God began the process of conception in Mary by creation like with Adam, after all he is the second Adam. Is God limited to do this?

Do you think the natural sperm is what gives birth to a Spirit?

For the Father could have just as easily sent his Son in the likness of sinful flesh to condemn sin in the flesh.

Isnt this what the scriptures say?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 23 2007,08:44)

Hi WJ, Quote No one here is denying his natural conception. In order to believe the Trinity, you have to deny natural conception.  Natural conception mixes DNA of both parents to create a new being.  If Jesus always existed as the second person of the One God, then when he was transfered into the womb of Mary and underwent *true* conception……he would be altered; no longer existing in the same way that he did before.  Trinitarians do not believe this happened, therefore they deny *true* conception. Quote Yet you say he was not concieved like us for the Father was his daddy and not man. Well how can you say your idea of conception is right and everyone else is wrong. Again you say he is a divine man, which means his conception was not like ours was it? I've had this converstaion with David a few times.  What it boils down to is the “virgin” part of the conception is the miracle for all things are possible with God.  However, Mary's conception and subsequent pregnancy went as status quo.  The angel, Gab, even likened her pregnancy unto her cousins pregnancy (also a miracle).  But Jesus was born in the usual fashion and was the Son of his parents. God provided what was needed (sperm).  This is what a “source” does (they provided what is needed).   Tell me, WJ, what is more likely: 1.  God miraculously provided a sperm so that he could father a child in the natural order of things so that all would understand that the holy child to be born was indeed the Son of God; the firstfruit of all that would follow? OR 2.  God seperated his three persons, incarnated one of them into a womb of a virgin where this person grew side-by-side with humanity.  Being careful not to follow the standard for true conception – this being did not mix with the human DNA to become a new individual, but instead only took on flesh and remained what it was previous to conception?  Being born God in flesh, instead of a true son of his parents?

not3

You say…

Quote

In order to believe the Trinity, you have to deny natural conception.

Your opinion. I could also say that if you deny that Jesus came in the flesh then you are of the spirit of antichrist.

You say…

Quote

Natural conception mixes DNA of both parents to create a new being.

But jesus conception is not a “natural conception” is it?

You say…

Quote

If Jesus always existed as the second person of the One God, then when he was transfered into the womb of Mary and underwent *true* conception……he would be altered; no longer existing in the same way that he did before.  Trinitarians do not believe this happened, therefore they deny *true* conception.

Says who? Gods Spirit lives in you dosnt he? He lives in yoiur body dosnt he? Is Gods spirit altered or changed?

Did God have to be born in you? No your Spirit had to be born again then God could live in you by his spirit!

If Gods Spirit can come inside of you then why can't Jesus who is also Spirit enter into the body that was conceived of the Holy Spirit in Mary?

Yoiu say…

Quote

I've had this converstaion with David a few times.  What it boils down to is the “virgin” part of the conception is the miracle for all things are possible with God.

I am glad you believe that “ALL THINGS” are possible with God, including taking on the likeness of sinfull flesh.

You say…

Quote

However, Mary's conception and subsequent pregnancy went as status quo.  The angel, Gab, even likened her pregnancy unto her cousins pregnancy (also a miracle).  But Jesus was born in the usual fashion and was the Son of his parents.

How can you possibly compare the two. Mary a virgin. Elezabeth not. Mary concieved by the Holy Spirit. Elizabeth not.

You say…

Quote

God provided what was needed (sperm).  This is what a “source” does (they provided what is needed).

So you say and believe. Scipture please?

You say…

Quote

Tell me, WJ, what is more likely: 1.  God miraculously provided a sperm so that he could father a child in the natural order of things so that all would understand that the holy child to be born was indeed the Son of God; the firstfruit of all that would follow? OR 2.  God seperated his three persons, incarnated one of them into a womb of a virgin where this person grew side-by-side with humanity.  Being careful not to follow the standard for true conception – this being did not mix with the human DNA to become a new individual, but instead only took on flesh and remained what it was previous to conception?  Being born God in flesh, instead of a true son of his parents?

Neither! As I said Jesus is also Spirit which you are ignoring!

You are trying to limit God the creator to just another natural conception, only God just added the sperm like they do in labs for test tube babys.

Does God have sperm. HMMM? It must be spiritual sperm. For if it was natural then Jesus would be a man in every way like us.

Sorry not3, your belief leaves a lot of unanswered questions!

[Mr. Steve]

To all;

When God revealed this truth to me I knew it would generate a stir. Man is composed of a body, soul, and a spirit.

When any person is conceived what is conceived? A body. A woman cannot bring forth a spirit from her flesh. It is God that lights every man that comes into the world. John 1. In Hebrews Paul said when Christ came into the world he said sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body thou hast prepared for me. Did Jesus say a soul thou hast prepared or a spirit?

When the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary and explained how she was going to conceive, her question was how is that going to happen seeing I know not a man? The miracle of the immaculate conception was that the Holy Spirit could cause Mary to conceive by supernatural means. Now the scripture says that God lights every man that comes into the world so in a sense every human life is a miracle because the spirit and comes from God and actually survives death until judgment. Ecclesiastes says the spirit goes back to the Lord who gave it.

Our spirits are really our antennas to tune into the things of God. The spirit searches the deep things of God. The soul is who we are in our wills, mind, and emotions. That part of man comes from God in all cases. God even has a soul. He said “This is my beloved Son in whom my soul is well pleased.” So Jesus must also have a soul because he is the express image of God. He had his soul in heaven otherwise he would have no will. He said he came down from heaven not of his own will. The scripture talks about having the mind of Christ so Christ has a mind. He identifies himself in heaven with God his Father prior to being sent.

My point is that the greater abberation is for Mary to conceive a body, not that God sent a spirit into the person in her womb because God lights every man that comes into the world. In this respect, Paul says are we not all the offspring of God. Only God gives life.

With that in mind, if Christ did not pre-exist, then the only difference between Christ and us would be that his body was conceived by the holy spirit. His body in the flesh had a beginning. So when he said “he” came down from heaven you should believe that “he” the Son of God came down from heaven because his body was created on here on earth.

All of our spirits come down from heaven because God lights every man that comes into the world. So the only part left is the actual person that must have pre-existed. That's why Christ is unique and that's why he is absolutely emphatic that “he” referring to himsel was sent from heaven from God and knew God at that time. The entire Gospel message of John actually revolves around believing that he is the Son of God that came into the world from above.

This truth has really got me excited because it gives us so much understanding and even greater faith in God and his Son.

Take Care

Steven

[Mr. Steve]

Quote

If Gods Spirit can come inside of you then why can't Jesus who is also Spirit enter into the body that was conceived of the Holy Spirit in Mary?

Amen WJ

When Mary answered Gabriel how shall these things be seeing I know not a man, his response was “Nothing shall be impossible with God.”

When you look at how a person is conceived and God providing the spirit of a man, is it such a big leap that he could conceive a body for Christ?

Even John the Baptist said, Do not begin to say within yourselves that we have Abraham as our father because God is able of these stones to raise up children to Abraham. Which would you consider to be a greater micracle?

How about the loaves multiplied from just a few to enough for 5,000 people? How about the creation of the world by the spoken word of God? Why we refuse to believe that Christ pre-existed is just a lack of faith. Oh, ye of little faith. Where is thy faith?

If he did not pre-exist then he would not be who he said he was. I'm not going there. Believe who he said he was. That is the work of God! Praise God Almighty. Praise Jesus Christ!

Steven

[IM4Truth]

Steve Amen and a thousand AMRNS.

Peace and Love Mrs.

[GeneBalthrop]

To All….>sence were talking about the Fathers ability. What would be so hard for Him to create a second Adam Like Paul said and BY His Spirit perfect Him and cause Him to walk Perfectly in all His ways.

Or as some say reberth a superbeing or as Trinitarians say God incarnet Himself and walk perfectly in all His ways.

Now tell me which way would most be like Us and Show Us what God can Do in an ordinary Human Being Just like Us.

Would it be a preexisted or Incarnated person or a real exact person as we are who didn't have anymore advantage then we do.

I ask you which example would give you the greatest encouragement and Faith in God the Father's ability to perfect Us.

Answer the above Honestly and you have the answer to the Question of Preexistence or incarnation Idologies.
IMO…….>gene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 23 2007,14:08)

To All….>sence were talking about the Fathers ability. What would be so hard for Him to create a second Adam Like Paul said and BY His Spirit perfect Him and cause Him to walk Perfectly in all His ways. Or as some say reberth a superbeing or as Trinitarians say God incarnet Himself and walk perfectly in all His ways. Now tell me which way would most be like Us and Show Us what God can Do in an ordinary Human Being Just like Us. Would it be a preexisted or Incarnated person or a real exact person as we are who didn't have anymore advantage then we do. I ask you which example would give you the greatest encouragement and Faith in God the Father's ability to perfect Us. Answer the above Honestly and you have the answer to the Question of Preexistence or incarnation Idologies. IMO…….>gene

GB

And why would he need a virgin to do that?

If the first Adam failed then it stands to reason the second Adam if made in everyway like him would fail to.

Jesus had advantage over every human, but guess what to make things even he gave us Power to become sons of God.

Therefore greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world. God lives in us so that gives us an advantage over the world, does it not?

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 21 2007,22:01)

Was this so-called thought WITH God, or in God?

T8……> Tell me this are your thoughts with you and are they also in you. I think they are both in you and with you, and as a result they are part of who and what you are.

In the beginning was the word (spoken thought) and it was with God and Was God. God is composed of Spirit, And what is Spirit, Arn't they words. Jesus Said ” the (Words) I speak to you are (Spirit) and are life.
We are told to try the Spirits to see if they are of God. How do we do that, is it not to try someones (word).

A person is Known by His words and actions and so is God the Father.

IMO……gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 23 2007,14:53)

And why would he need a virgin to do that? If the first Adam failed then it stands to reason the second Adam if made in everyway like him would fail to. Jesus had advantage over every human, but guess what to make things even he gave us Power to become sons of God. Therefore greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world. God lives in us so that gives us an advantage over the world, does it not?

WJ….The reason God Needed a Virgin to do what He did was because thats what He said He was going to do.
He said the seed of the woman would bruse the head of Satan. Also He told Abraham His seed would inherit the blessings not to mention all the prophesies concerning Him.

God took a ordinary Human Being who had a Will and Soul of His own that was seperate from God's Will and Soul, Just like you and me and Gave Him His Spirit, Which gave Him His nature and caused Jesus to live without sin. Which is the same thing the Father can do for You and Me.

Jesus is my brother the firstborn in the Family and we Both have one Father and that Father Is God. His God and My God His Father and My Fahter, No difference at all.

IMO…..gene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 23 2007,16:40)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 23 2007,14:53) And why would he need a virgin to do that? If the first Adam failed then it stands to reason the second Adam if made in everyway like him would fail to. Jesus had advantage over every human, but guess what to make things even he gave us Power to become sons of God. Therefore greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world. God lives in us so that gives us an advantage over the world, does it not? WJ….The reason God Needed a Virgin to do what He did was because thats what He said He was going to do. He said the seed of the woman would bruse the head of Satan. Also He told Abraham His seed would inherit the blessings not to mention all the prophesies concerning Him. God took a ordinary Human Being who had a Will and Soul of His own that was seperate from God's Will and Soul, Just like you and me and Gave Him His Spirit, Which gave Him His nature and caused Jesus to live without sin. Which is the same thing the Father can do for You and Me. Jesus is my brother the firstborn in the Family and we Both have one Father and that Father Is God. His God and My God His Father and My Fahter, No difference at all. IMO…..gene

GB

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WJ….The reason God Needed a Virgin to do what He did was because thats what He said He was going to do. He said the seed of the woman would bruse the head of Satan. Also He told Abraham His seed would inherit the blessings not to mention all the prophesies concerning Him.

Yea, but the seed of the woman could have been any woman. Why a virgin if he is like us in every way?

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God took a ordinary Human Being who had a Will and Soul of His own that was seperate from God's Will and Soul, Just like you and me and Gave Him His Spirit, Which gave Him His nature and caused Jesus to live without sin. Which is the same thing the Father can do for You and Me.

Again, why the virgin birth then? He could have used any woman and man to make a “normal human being”.

Look at JTB, he ws filled with the Spirit from birth, yet he said he was not worthy to unlatch his shoes.

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Jesus is my brother the firstborn in the Family and we Both have one Father and that Father Is God. His God and My God His Father and My Fahter, No difference at all.

Yes of course, your Jesus is no different at all than any of us.

Jesus is not just another anointed man or prophet created by the Father as a puppet on a string.

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