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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 17 2011,19:45) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 15 2011,22:48) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 16 2011,22:32) Gene, You are correct. The word is “ascended”, not “returned”.
You could have pointed out my error in a less facetious way however.
MikeI would like gene to answer my question ,because if Christ came down from heaven then it is ok to say return or ascend
because to me when you come down either you ascend to where you where before ,right so return is not an error it means the same thing no?
Pierre
I agree Pierre.Jesus clearly came DOWN from heaven, according to John 6. And he foretold that some of them would see him ASCEND to where he was BEFORE.
So you and the NIV are correct, that the meaning is definitely “RETURNED”.
But Gene is correct that the Greek word is “ASCEND”. I should have checked before posting the scripture as I did.
I don't want to get into the habit of adding or changing words in the scriptures just to “be right”, like some other people frequently do.
peace and love,
mike Terricca……………..Jesus was indeed a PREPLANNED BEING from the very start < From the seed of the women would come Jesus who would bruise the Head of the serpent. Nowhere does it say their was a EXISTING BEING who would become a seed of a women not there or for that matter no where in all the bible does it say that a person would be morphed into a “BEING” from another (state of existence). If there is please post the scripture that say there is, or just admit you could be wrong. Pierre just fact it you and all trinitarians and Preexistences belief system are from the original Gnostic's. They all believed and Believe that Jesus Preexisted even though non of you people know as what that Preexistence was. So really the Bla,bla, bla is from you people not us. IMO
peace and love…………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 18 2011,08:31) Terricca……………..Jesus was indeed a PREPLANNED BEING from the very start < From the seed of the women would come Jesus who would bruise the Head of the serpent. Nowhere does it say their was a EXISTING BEING who would become a seed of a women not there or for that matter no where in all the bible does it say that a person would be morphed into a “BEING” from another (state of existence). If there is please post the scripture that say there is, or just admit you could be wrong. Pierre just fact it you and all trinitarians and Preexistences belief system are from the original Gnostic's. They all believed and Believe that Jesus Preexisted even though non of you people know as what that Preexistence was. So really the Bla,bla, bla is from you people not us. IMO peace and love…………………………………………gene
geneso you do not believe Christ when he says that he came from heaven ,right ?
and so you refuse to answer my question right ?
Pierre
Terricca…………I do believe He was in the Plan and will of GOD from the foundation of this present earth, I do Not believe He
PREEXISTED” his BERTH on earth as any kind of Sentential Being at all. GOD is not concerned with Morphing Angels to humans and deceiving us to thinking they are real human beings in disguise. The whole Premise of a Preexistent Jesus is false and does nothing to show anything about the human race at all, it is completely against God the Fathers work with Mankind through Mankind and not only that but against Jesus' human existence as well. It is a a false “MYSTERY RELIGION” You have bought into Pierre, IMOpeace and love…………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 19 2011,08:26) Terricca…………I do believe He was in the Plan and will of GOD from the foundation of this present earth, I do Not believe He
PREEXISTED” his BERTH on earth as any kind of Sentential Being at all. GOD is not concerned with Morphing Angels to humans and deceiving us to thinking they are real human beings in disguise. The whole Premise of a Preexistent Jesus is false and does nothing to show anything about the human race at all, it is completely against God the Fathers work with Mankind through Mankind and not only that but against Jesus' human existence as well. It is a a false “MYSTERY RELIGION” You have bought into Pierre, IMOpeace and love…………………………………gene
geneso Jesus lied when he said ? ;;Jn 6:33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world
JN 6:62 “What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?Jn 6:41 At this the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.”
Jn 6:50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die.
Jn 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
Jn 6:58 This is the bread that came down from heaven.Jn 17:1 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:
“Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.but was Jesus a man like all others ? I do not think so sins his father was God not a man ,
Eph 1:10 to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
Eph 3:15 from whom his whole family in heaven and on earth derives its nameCol 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Quote . GOD is not concerned with Morphing Angels to humans and deceiving us to thinking they are real human beings in disguise. the fact that you do not want to see truth it does not make scriptures a lie ,
angels have come to this planet many times ,and all things are possible with God,
it is you who as left the truth for religion gossips and refused to see the truth,
you are constantly agreeing with error,supporting lies,twisted scriptures ,why ?? is it because you do not like God s truth ??
Pierre
Terricca…………That is your choice if you refuse to believe Jesus was a Man Just like all Human being are men and son of Men. If you want to believe He was a morphed angel that is fine with me. But here is something for you to chew on.
John 5:26………..> For as the Father has life in Himself, So He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, and has given Him authority to execute judgement also, (like GOD does), Why Pierre? because He (IS) the Son of MAN
Now you preexistences don't believe He is a SON (OF) MAN but rather a “MORPHED ANGEL OF SOME KIND. So who are we to believe you preexistences or what Jesus said he was, over 80 some times he said He was a Son (OF) MAN. What is stopping you from believing Jesus Pierre?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 21 2011,12:09) Terricca…………That is your choice if you refuse to believe Jesus was a Man Just like all Human being are men and son of Men. If you want to believe He was a morphed angel that is fine with me. But here is something for you to chew on. John 5:26………..> For as the Father has life in Himself, So He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, and has given Him authority to execute judgement also, (like GOD does), Why Pierre? because He (IS) the Son of MAN
Now you preexistences don't believe He is a SON (OF) MAN but rather a “MORPHED ANGEL OF SOME KIND. So who are we to believe you preexistences or what Jesus said he was, over 80 some times he said He was a Son (OF) MAN. What is stopping you from believing Jesus Pierre?
GeneQuote What is stopping you from believing Jesus Pierre? but I accept Christ as a man ,this was the plan of God that his son would come down from heaven and take the lower position
to fulfill the words of his father (to save humanity) ,and this to give up his own live and wen all things where done he took his live back,
and as the son of God all powers had been given to him from his father to bring all thing under his father ,then himself will be submitted to his own father so that all can be of God,
Pierre
Pierre good post!!!! Jesus was not only the Son of men, but also the Son of God the only begotten Son of God…..
Mat 16:13 ¶ When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am I?
Mat 16:14 And they said, Some [say that thou art] John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Why do certain members want to make Jesus a Son of men only?
He is the only begotten of the Father… What does that mean??? He did not come in the Form of man first. He was in the form of God first, and then was made into the likeness of men….
Phl 2:6 Who, being in the FORM OF GOD, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and WAS MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN:
Jesus is the only begotten of the Father, and He did come down from Heaven to do His Fathers will
Jhn 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Jhn 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Anyone who doesn't believe what Jesus is saying here and else where, is calling Him a liar….I believe Jesus…. that is my choice, what about you?
Throughout the Gospel of John He tells us what Jesus said… Many times He says the He was sent…. three times in these Scriptures….
Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
The Word of God is the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth….a title just like God is. Both The Word of God and Almighty God have other names….. Jehovah God and His Son Yeshua.
Peace Irene
Irene
Quote Anyone who doesn't believe what Jesus is saying here and else where, is calling Him a liar….I believe Jesus…. that is my choice, what about you? this is true to the truth,
Christ did not say ; according to the plan of God i came from heaven ;;; this is Gene s believe,so Christ is a liar and so he do not accept the coming of the son of God into the flesh to save men ,
Pierre
Terricca……….Why lie, you do not accept this, that Jesus “is (THE) (a definite article), SON of MAN”. You believe he was a morphed angel it seem you cant make up you mind what Jesus was right? Pierre a Definite article in English means that is exactly what Jesus was THE SON OF MAN do you see here where it says he was a morphed angel of any kind . Your predisposed false mind set in Jesus' preexistence has confused you thinking and trying to make it appear others are, trying to confuse when in fact it is you doing that, is also wrong Pierre. IMO
peace and love……………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 22 2011,05:49) Terricca……….Why lie, you do not accept this, that Jesus “is (THE) (a definite article), SON of MAN”. You believe he was a morphed angel it seem you cant make up you mind what Jesus was right? Pierre a Definite article in English means that is exactly what Jesus was THE SON OF MAN do you see here where it says he was a morphed angel of any kind . Your predisposed false mind set in Jesus' preexistence has confused you thinking and trying to make it appear others are, trying to confuse when in fact it is you doing that, is also wrong Pierre. IMO peace and love……………………………………..gene
genethen the apostles where all liars because they have called Jesus the son of God just as the son of man ,
it seems that your foundation in scriptures are not of scriptures ,but of some type of preacher on the corner store,
see once more ;; son of man because born of Mary,got it ?
; son of God because his father is God and it was God power who fertilized Mary ,but the seed from God was the THE WORD OF GOD HIS SON, got it ?
Pierre
Terricca…………….So how is it the Apostle John says, we are “NOW” SONS or “CHILDREN” OF GOD , does that mean Jesus was a different Kind of SON of GOD as we are?.
Need Scripture?…..> 1 John 3:1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called the childern of GOD Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2….> Beloved now we (ARE) the Childern of GOD .
So Pierre does that mean Jesus was and is Different then we are, as you and your preexistences brothers falsely preach? Do you consider these scriptures as ” Corner Store” dogmas also.
peace and love……………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 23 2011,08:47) Terricca…………….So how is it the Apostle John say, we are “NOW” SONS or “CHILDREN” OF GOD , doeS that mean Jesus was a different Kind of SON of GOD as we are?. Need Scripture?…..> 1 John 3:1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called the childern of GOD Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2….> Beloved now we (ARE) the Childern of GOD .
So Pierre does that mean Jesus was and is Different then we are, as you and your preexistences brothers falsely preach? Do you consider these scriptures as ” Corner Store” dogmas also.
peace and love……………………………gene
geneJn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
Jn 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.Jn 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
tell me Gene how many sons has God ? according to John 3;16
1Jn 2:29 If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him.
1Jn 3:1 How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God!being called children of God because we have been reborn in the spirit of God ,do you now think that you are equal to Christ ??
Pierre
Gene
we only become Children of God when we have reach the end line ,what is the return of Christ or our dead in being faithfull to his word and will ,what is to be attached to the truth of scriptures not our own truth,
many will say Lord ,Lord on that day but Christ says get away wicket men ? does this not says something to us ?
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 22 2011,11:04) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 22 2011,05:49) Terricca……….Why lie, you do not accept this, that Jesus “is (THE) (a definite article), SON of MAN”. You believe he was a morphed angel it seem you cant make up you mind what Jesus was right? Pierre a Definite article in English means that is exactly what Jesus was THE SON OF MAN do you see here where it says he was a morphed angel of any kind . Your predisposed false mind set in Jesus' preexistence has confused you thinking and trying to make it appear others are, trying to confuse when in fact it is you doing that, is also wrong Pierre. IMO peace and love……………………………………..gene
genethen the apostles where all liars because they have called Jesus the son of God just as the son of man ,
it seems that your foundation in scriptures are not of scriptures ,but of some type of preacher on the corner store,
see once more ;; son of man because born of Mary,got it ?
; son of God because his father is God and it was God power who fertilized Mary ,but the seed from God was the THE WORD OF GOD HIS SON, got it ?
Pierre
Quote
it seems that your foundation in scriptures are not of scriptures ,but of some type of preacher on the corner store,Funny….Irene
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 23 2011,02:32) Gene we only become Children of God when we have reach the end line ,what is the return of Christ or our dead in being faithfull to his word and will ,what is to be attached to the truth of scriptures not our own truth,
Terricca………..So to you , you will only become a Child of GOD when you reach the end of the line right?, well John disagrees with you as i quoted, but then that make no difference to you what He said right Pierre, now does it? It is amazing how you preexistence and trinitarians can just only see what fits you false teachings.According MY bible John said see what manor of love the Father has for us that (NOW) we should be called the Childern of GOD. Perhaps your lack of English understanding prevents you from understanding the word (NOW)
peace and love………………………………gene
Gene
Quote According MY bible John said see what manor of love the Father has for us that (NOW) we should be called the Childern of GOD. Perhaps your lack of English understanding prevents you from understanding the word (NOW) Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.
1Jn 1:2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.
1Jn 1:3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
1Jn 1:4 We write this to make our joy complete.Walking in the Light
1Jn 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
1Jn 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.2Jn 1:4 It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us.
2Jn 1:7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist3Jn 1:2 Dear friend, I pray that you may enjoy good health and that all may go well with you, even as your soul is getting along well.
3Jn 1:3 It gave me great joy to have some brothers come and tell about your faithfulness to the truth and how you continue to walk in the truth.3Jn 1:11 Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does what is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God.
see Gene it is an on going process until the end our faith as to be like Christ until we are stopped by our dead like Christ or Christ return witch ever is first.
Jude 1:10 Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.
Jude 1:11 Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.Pierre
Terricca…………So much chatter and still you reject the word (NOW) used by John. At the time a person receives the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD (INTO) Him he is right then a Child of GOD , GOD'S “SEED” abides (IN) HIM. God's calling is without revocation, do you need scripture for that also? It amazes me how much chatter you people do and yet lack the understanding of scriptures or lack the retention of them in your minds. You seem to only be able to quote them but not retain them in you minds so that you can put them together and draw a conclusion. Remember THE SUM OF GODS WORDS ARE TRUTH “ , not little specks of it, here and there. IMO
peace and love…………………………………………….gene
gene
Quote Terricca…………So much chatter and still you reject the word (NOW) used by John you did not even give the scripture details ,and you believe that the word of God is equal to one word
where is that word ?? NOW ??
Pierre
Terricca…………….Try 1 John 3:2 …………..I directly quoted it to you (8) Posts ago , but you only read what you want to in scriptures while neglecting all the rest of them. Here we are again spinning around and going no where, becasue of your preconceived dogmas have blinded your eyes, so you choose to neglect scripture that disagree with your false teachings, as all Trinitarians and Preexistences do. IMO
peace and love………………………………………gene
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