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Hi dirtyk, I took this out of your thread on voting because it did not belong there, and I did not want to force my opinion on other people who were not interested in reading it.
I am going to address your statements one at a time in the following couple of threads.
You said, “Like I said…just because your life is not as I described…does not mean that everyones life is like yours…”
Hi dirtyk, thank you for pretending to know my life.
That is the perfect example of ingrained discrimination and bigotry to assume that
Everyone that does not agree with your paranoia must have lived an easier life.I grew up in a ghetto neighborhood, a low income high crime neighborhood you called it. In a world where landlords would not rent to a family with kids, and especially to a single mother with kids. My mother raised my two brothers and I on the meager income she could make in tips working at a greasy spoon diner. We were allowed to live above the diner only as long as the owner never once heard us walking around above his restaurant. If we made any noise he made it clear that we would be out on the streets. We were so thankful for that home that we tiptoed around bare footed.
Many weeks our only food was celery soup, made with celery, salt and water, because that is all we had in the house. We walked over mile each day to and from school, and were happy that we had shoes to wear, even with the cardboard stuffed inside over the holes in the soles. In a poor neighborhood, surrounded by poor neighbors, we were considered the poor family. We did not join gangs, and yes there were gangs back then as well. We worked doing anything we could, running errands, mowing lawns, paper routes, to earn a few cents to help put food on the table. Instead of crying about how the government should be giving us everything we wanted. My mother never thought that we had a “right” to a home. She thought that she had a responsibility to somehow provide a home to her children.
Because of these hardships and not in spite of them we all grew stronger. When I completed high school I got married and had a child, in that order. Our family did not have the money for further education so I worked two jobs and supported my family while attending night school to complete my degree in engineering. This took over seven years of 20 hour days, but it allowed me to improve our lot in life.
Each of my two brothers also overcame and excelled in their respective fields.
I did not write all of this to say oh poor me. In fact, we never realized that we were poor until we got older and looked back on what we did not have. I wrote this to say that in this country the opportunity exists to make whatever you want to with your life. Many minorities have used that opportunity to excel. You chose to diminish the opportunity that exists by discounting these as the exceptions. Like somehow the same opportunities do not exist for others and they just got lucky.
Paranoia is a destructive force dirtyk. I see signs of it in how you view many things in your life. Your country, your church and your brothers in Christ.
Tim
Continuing,
I would like to address individually some of your statements.
You said, “There is a such thing as WET..its called regular network television…only 15 percent of the Faces seen on regular network TV are minority…”
Just curious, are 15% of the faces on BET caucasion? If not, then the BET is much more discriminatory than regular network television.
You said, “People act like America is some great place to be…and it is for some….But the fact of the matter is that a huge group of people are fighting an uphill battle…without the resources to make the climb”
I don’t understand, is it your opinion that these people should somehow be given these resources. Our country gives them the right and opportunity to improve their lives.
Perhaps you can give me the name of a country that you think does a better job than the U.S.You said “Your ignorant statements “that you are tired of people whining about what somebody did their great-grandmother”
Show that you have no idea of the conditions in this country….”Excuse me. It was you who brought up the fact about all of the slavery in generations past in your family. In fact one of them moved to the U.S to escape slavery.
I am fully aware of the conditions in this country, and am not particularly happy with many of them. But many of the problems that you see are only viewed through special victim colored sunglasses.You said,” The numbers I quoted are accurate…like i said research…”
Did the research, your numbers are not accurate.
You said,” The conditions are described exist…I know..I grew up in them…you all (some of you) just proved exactly what I said..”
I grew up in them as well. See the earlier post. Economic discrepancies will always exist,
Even in a communist society, because everyone will not try equally hard to improve theirs.Tim
Continuing,
You said, “
If you look deeper…I am NOT saying the root causes of the conditions described are intrinsically race related rather I am saying they are SOCIOECONOMIC…
AKA class and money…”You did not say that they were race related, but you did insinuate that only minorities are affected by these socioeconomic issues. And I know that women are considered minorities, in spite of being over half of the population, but we all know that the minority reference is to non caucasions.
You said, “But yet again…just as I predicted you focused on race…I mention race because it is a window into a much deeper problem in this country…”
I did not focus on race. You mentioned it, I mentioned it. Could this be another example of you only seeing what you want to see from a victimized standpoint?
You said, “Simple Fact…where socioeconomic standards increase..crime decreases and achievment increases…”
I agree 100%. When you figure out how to achieve that short of just giving more money to the less advantaged you will receive the Nobel Peace Prize.
You said, “I mean no harm brother…but I am sick an tired of the socioeconomic policy in this country…and the racism…”
As am I. However dirtyk you may find that if all you look for is racism, all you will see is racism. Sure, I know whites that are racist against blacks. I also know blacks that are racist against Mexicans. I have friends in England that are racist against Arabs. Racism does not just exist in the U.S.
I also think that many of your statements reveal a tinge of racism in that you feel that it was obviously some other group that has placed, and keep, the minorities in their low socioeconomic class.You said, “There is Big glass ceiling that Minority groups…yes i'm talking about women too..of all colors for that matter…can not break thru in corporate america…Yes just like you I can point to a Few scattered faces here and their …But the question is does that accurately represent the big picture?
Look closer and you will see that it does not..Like I said before..open the nearest forbes magazines…or any magazine dedicated to money and success…and count the number of minority faces you see…actually open any mainsteam magazine or advertisement and pay attention to who is represented.”
Give me a break dirtyk. In a corporation of 10,000 employees only one can be CEO.
It is a little difficult to show statistics that each of the minorities are represented as CEOs at a percentage rate equal to their population. You are being totally unrealistic if you expect to see the few other top spots represented equally by minorities.
The fact is that they are fairly well represented, and improving constantly.This from wiki, “there are signs of black economic progress, especially within the United States. Over 1.7 million African Americans have gone off the poverty rolls; earnings by African American women have moved to within a few percentage points of white women's, and purchasing power of black women in the United States has surpassed that of white women. Unemployment among blacks in recent years has dropped below the 10 percent mark. The poverty rate among African Americans has dropped from 26.5% in 1998 to 24.7% in 2004.[9] The growth in African American incomes is translating into big gains in buying power and opportunities for black businesses. If these trends continue, Blacks (especially in America) can be expected to increase their percentage of the world’s billionaires.”
Of course if you want to continue to see the glass as half empty instead of half full, nothing will change your mind. You have chosen to fixate on what you see as victimhood instead of seeing the great progress that is taking place.
Is more needed, of course it is. But it is moving in the right direction and constant discourse about victimhood is not helping it along.Tim
There, got that off my chest. If no one reads it, that is cool. If anyone disagrees, that is cool.
It doesn't really matter. I just had to get it off my chest.Tim
Timothy VI…I digress for the sake of unity….you can not and will not ever understand…you sound like a news bite on “FOX NEWS”…until you realize that what we are begging for is not a..handout…but rather a helping hand…then you cannot see thru your walls of defense…the fact of the matter is this country has made a few sincere steps at changing bad socioeconomic policy..
But a few steps is not enough when your policy and rhetoric have placed a mountain in front of the people…
Like I said when referring to yourself….Just because you made does not mean that everyone else can be just like you…circumstance is the variable here…..
The the problem with Non-minorities like yourself is they have the same answer everytime this topic is brought up…”Shut up..quit complaining…and make it happen”…If only it were that easy my brother…but I choose no longer to talk to people about this toopic who think that is the answer…because that just shows they really don't understand the situation and realities of this country…
So again I digress…peace be with you…
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 07 2008,03:41) Timothy VI…I digress for the sake of unity….you can not and will not ever understand…
Oh, that sounds like real unity. I understand, but you can not and never will because I am somehow special. I could say the same about you.Tim
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 07 2008,03:41) until you realize that what we are begging for is not a..handout…but rather a helping hand…then you cannot see thru your walls of defense…
I don't know what helping hand you are looking for.
The opportunities are there. Thru the walls of perceived victimhood you refuse to recognize them.
My walls of defense are for my country.
TimQuote (dirtyknections @ June 07 2008,03:41) Like I said when referring to yourself….Just because you made does not mean that everyone else can be just like you…circumstance is the variable here…..
Of course everyone can not be just like me.
The variable nature in the circumstances was that my mother never allowed us to dwell on what we did not have, but instead to be grateful for what we had.Tim
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 07 2008,03:41) The the problem with Non-minorities like yourself is they have the same answer everytime this topic is brought up
And exactly where in all of my posts did I say that I was non minority? Your prejudice is showing thru again.Tim
Dirtyk, I pray that the LORD will help you to come out of your bitterness.
May you live a long and prosperous life, and be able to lend a helping hand to those that need it.Tim
I you are interested, you can read what a fellow minority thinks might be some of the cause for the
socioeconomic mess.DK……to be honest about racial preferences, when I had a large electrical operation years ago, I thought about what your saying, if I had a black man and a Mexican, and a white man, with the exact same abilities applying for a job, which one would i have chosen , the fact is i would have chosen the white man, so i can see what your talking about, but i wonder is the owner was a black man and the same situation was presented what do you think he would have done, would he have drawn straws I don't think so, how would have chosen the black man. So what i am saying there is prejudices among races, but blacks have them also as well as Hispanics, Chinese, Italian, Germans, Irish, English, you name it they all have there preferences.
Why do these exist, because of the uniqueness of their cultures, they are different. And Whites are the biggest cultural force in this nation so far. But to think Blacks or other races don't have good opportunities in this nation is pure foolishness. Where else could you go and have as much opportunity as you do here.
Let me tell you a true story, i grow up where there were mixed races and one of my best friends was a Black kid we were so close that when i was in the third grade he was in the fourth, he cried so much and would not do he work tell the moved he back to the third grade and sat him right next to me in class
To this day we still have great love for one another. His brother was a fighter and all marine champion and went on to fight professionally and to this day holds the worlds heavy weight title for the most (straight) Knock outs in the history of boxing His mane was Mc Foster , he had 28 straight heavy weight KO, he and His brother Irvin still come and see me. And me and Irvin always
hug each other when we part. With tears in our eye because we were so close in our childhood. I never looked at Irvin as inferior to me., I could tell you so many things we did together as children it would probably make you tear up. And trust me i know poverty and when people have nothing there hopes diminish and that effect all poor people not Just blacks and those who are poor do tend to go towards drugs and alcohol and have a diminished out look, epically if they let themselves look at their condition as being effected by other and so there situation is out of their control. If you view things that way then you will just give up and go no where in your life, and blame everyone else for your failures.DK, let all that go and step up to the bat, i can tell your pretty sharp by your posts. isten i was in a labor union working with black when i was 18 yeras old
and i was the only white kid in a car pool hour long drive every day to work in a tunnel a mile through a mountain and some of those fokes were 40 years older then me and we worked side by side day in and day out, and we got along perfectly and there was no disrespect for each other at all. This is not just an isolated case either this happens every day across the land and guess what, they love and respect each other and share their lives with each other also.Dk…….try looking at the good things we all have together and you will be surprised how much happier you will become and life will have a brighter out look, and believe me i am perty old and know what i am talking about on this.
Peace and love to you and yours……………gene
Quote (TimothyVI @ June 07 2008,04:35) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 07 2008,03:41) The the problem with Non-minorities like yourself is they have the same answer everytime this topic is brought up
And exactly where in all of my posts did I say that I was non minority? Your prejudice is showing thru again.Tim
Tim,I am shocked and appalled by your many posts here.
Tell us, are you a minority? Are you a Black, Mexican, or Asian living in America? You never said. Perhaps I missed that bit amongst your words (read: public beating of our brother, DK).
I pray the Lord saves YOU from your bitterness! Egads! You have every right to air your feelings. I have done the very same thing on another thread. However, it's one thing to be raised poor and deal with all the challenges that that presents, and quite another to be born a man of color in the United States. Get educated, Tim. Don't let your own clear and present bias keep you from understanding your brother's set of circumstances. It may even allow you to show some empathy which is sadly missing from your heart today…..
This subject will divide us. I feel in many ways it irreversibly already has. Forgiveness and love is possible – will we lean towards it?
Mandy
THIS IS MY POST FROM ANOTHER THREAD. IT SHOULD BE HERE ON THIS THREAD.
Good morning Cato,
Quote
I find the claim of since I am not a minority I can't understand unproductive (though I know you meant it in a helpful way).It may be unproductive, but as I said, it is your luxury to not have to worry about these things on a daily basis. Most folks who are not a minority do not like this and go about trying to prove those who suffer from racism wrong (even though they mean it in a helpful way). But it doesn't come close to the very real pain and rejection those feel who bare different colors of skin, different shape of eyes, and ultimately very different cultures. That is why I like to use the term “luxury” when I am speaking to those who are not a minority – it is our luxury to not wake-up every morning and realize that the odds are somewhat against us. Some of the facts that DK presented are true. We don't like to admit that they are. We like to think that everyone has the same opportunities.
We like to believe that if you have the right attitude and get the same education, that our society has evolved enough to put everyone on the same playing filed. It's just not true. But it is our luxury to believe that it is. Why? Because for US it is true. For my children, and perhaps for DK and other's of color – the truth is that the playing field will probably never be the same for whites as it is for various colors of people. Sure, there are zillion of success stories but there are more failures for every success as DK tried to point out. The stats are out there if you care to look.
Are these merely my opinions? No. I have worked extensively with our adoption agency through the years and have headed many talks and groups around the state regarding racism. Like DK, I could go on and on, but I realize who I am preaching to. To some degree, it is no use. No offense, and I hope none is taken, but when people rationalize in their own heads that everyone has the same rights regardless (and these are usually white folks, I might add), there is little anyone can do to show them another view. They will always come up with examples of some black guy they know, or some Army buddie, or some such example to prove that what I am saying (and the experts say) are wrong. Perhaps in their small world of experience the experts are wrong, but not for the majority out there who are in the minority (no pun intended).
This is a hot button for me as well. I get angry with those who show no compassion or empathy towards minorities. Instead they minimalize their challenges and compare them to situations that are really no comparision at all. My favorite comparision to date is comparing my children who are Korean, and their challenges, to someone who is in a wheelchair. Don't even get me started. It just shows ignorance on the side of someone who probably won't even attemp to study and understand racism. Yet they believe in their own minds that they have set the record straight. It doesn't work that way. It may work for them, in their minds, and that would be their luxury.
Quote
The other thing we must realize is that we are all minorites and majorities that shift with the boudaries of definition.Ha, perhaps. But we are talking about color. Black Americans. DK. I have added my Korean children to the mix with this post. What you are saying here is exactly what I am talking about. It is your luxury to compare black minorities with those of other minority definitions at any given time. For instance, there was a time in the Victorian era when women decided not to wear corsets. They were in the minority. They were ostracized from society. But this has little comparision value to someone who cannot take off their color of skin at will. Race does not shift with boundaries of definition – not in the US of A it doesn't. But perhaps I am missing something and please feel free to enlighten me.
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Just because you are oppressed in one facet of life does not make you noble or prevent you from being an oppressor in another factor.This statement makes me immediately angry. I guess it's because most whites believe that blacks find their plot of predjudice something to be proud of. Like something they put on a shelf and show off, or something that makes them a martyr for their injustice. It's siimply not true. Just because a minority addresses their challenges (even with justified anger, imo) doesn't mean they are trying to be noble in any sense of the word.
Quote
Take the hot button issue of race; minority status shifts constantly.Blacks have always been the minority in America, that has never shifted. This statement, whether you realize it or not, degrades the issue for Blacks. True, if you are a White person in Oakland, CA, for instance, you will be the minority, but you resume your status of a majority the minute you leave that town. That is not a good enough “status shift” to justify oversimplifying the problem faced by many colored minorities, imo.
Quote
the city I work I am a minority,Case in point – the minute you leave the city where you work, you are undoubtedly back in the majority. The minority races that work alongside of you do not have this luxury when they leave work. They are Black (or whatever) no matter what city they are in. So the challenges you face are not the same. You may have a peek into their world, but you do not live in their world.
Quote
Oh well that's my thoughts for the day.As you know Cato, I always appreciate your thoughts. I still have much respect for you. I hope that you can hear my thoughts today with equal appreciation. This is a sensitive subject for me, obviously. Keep in mind that I comfort my minority children when they are teased, kept out of games because of their “squinty” eyes. Luckily both of my children are fairly popluar, but I am aware of those who are not as liked and isolated because of their color. Where do these children learn these behaviors? Makes one wonder…..
Thanks for listening to my rant,
MandyBro Gene,
You say,
Quote I never looked at Irvin as inferior to me And then you said,
Quote DK……to be honest about racial preferences, when I had a large electrical operation years ago, I thought about what your saying, if I had a black man and a Mexican, and a white man, with the exact same abilities applying for a job, which one would i have chosen , the fact is i would have chosen the white man, So, while it is your luxury to see your buddy as an equal with you, most business owner's or a lot of business owner's (such as yourself) do not feel the same way. This is the minority challenge. And thank you for being so dang honest, Gene. I can always count on you to bring it down to a human level. God bless you.
MandyMandy……Because of you last post i need to tell you some more, when i was at the height of my business I had with the help of God developed a very large contracting operation, One day Irvin came to me and ask for a Job, he knew nothing about about electrical, and i was so glad to see him and immediately put him to work, He was the only black person i Had working for me,i sent him out as a helper to learn, but after a month or two the men begin to complain that he just wasn't picking it up, but i just keep him working anyway, where i would have let some else go. I didn't care what the men would tell me, but one day he fell through a ceiling of a house and could have been injured and the person he was working with said he was having to do most all the work and it was really slowing him down, So out of fear for Irvin would hurt himself i decided to create a job for Him cleaning the shop and talikg material out to the job site even though i really didn't need that done.
Please don't think i saying Irvin was doumb becaues He wasn't in fact he was and is one of the sharpest person i ever meet, but going on with the story< Irvin realized He was not making me any money and Started to feel He was a burden to me but i didn't care he could work for me as long as he wanted to, it didn't matter to me. One day he came to me and said i cant keep working for you, because i am not really helping you so i am going to quite , I said Irvin you doin't have to quite Just keep working, he wouldn't though and left, the storyies not over yet though a year later He came to me wanting to scrap all the Junk meatal i had and I had a lot of it including copper wire and alunine and i told he could have it all . So he did and made quite abit of money, i was happy for him, and about six monthe later He came to be with a Idea of starting a Barbques Business and needed some money to purchase some material to cook meat and so forth, I gave him the money and He began His operation First out of a Side walk area, and people were comming right and left to by His food, and i mean it was delicious.Thngs were going good for Irvin and I thought He found his nitch and business was good, So I began tolook for a place where he could establish his business and found a small Hut shaped Building in a grat location for that kind of business, and was about to start negoations to purchase it for Irvin and was very interested in even starting a franchise Known as FOSTER”S RIBS, i know it would have been a big success He couldn't fail, but what happened was Irvin began coming to me for more Money to by supplies and was not taking His sales and replacing his supplies , He was doing drugs and drinking to much So i knew i had a problem and stopped the purchase process for the building. I finally told him had to make due with what he was receiving from His sales and his sales was very good, He could have been a millionaire many times over by now easily. He came to me a year or so later and wanted me to help him get Social Security disablity because all the drugs had made it where he could learn on a job. So i did and he got and still gets social security disability.
I still love him with all my heart and look forward some day of being in the kingdom of God with My brother Irvin.Peace to all………..gene
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 07 2008,05:43) Quote (TimothyVI @ June 07 2008,04:35) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 07 2008,03:41) The the problem with Non-minorities like yourself is they have the same answer everytime this topic is brought up
And exactly where in all of my posts did I say that I was non minority? Your prejudice is showing thru again.Tim
Tim,I am shocked and appalled by your many posts here.
Tell us, are you a minority? Are you a Black, Mexican, or Asian living in America? You never said. Perhaps I missed that bit amongst your words (read: public beating of our brother, DK).
I pray the Lord saves YOU from your bitterness! Egads! You have every right to air your feelings. I have done the very same thing on another thread. However, it's one thing to be raised poor and deal with all the challenges that that presents, and quite another to be born a man of color in the United States. Get educated, Tim. Don't let your own clear and present bias keep you from understanding your brother's set of circumstances. It may even allow you to show some empathy which is sadly missing from your heart today…..
This subject will divide us. I feel in many ways it irreversibly already has. Forgiveness and love is possible – will we lean towards it?
Mandy
Hi Mandy,You said “I am shocked and appalled by your many posts here.”
Please tell me which actual sentence appalled you? Honestly read through each sentence and tell me which one individually was unspeakable. Or was it merely the quantity of posts that you found appalling?
I broke them up because it is so difficult to read one long post.
Honestly, It appears that you were appalled merely because I, a non minority would have the nerve to question DK’s statements. Do you really feel like a non minority has absolutely no right to question a minority on minority issues?You said “Tell us, are you a minority? Are you a Black, Mexican, or Asian living in America?
Racial status seems to be very important to you Mandy.
No, I am not Black, Asian or Mexican. Since that is what you consider minorities to be, I guess I am not one. My Grandmother was full blooded Miami Indian, whose tribe's property was taken from them by the government, and my father was German. Neither of which was very popular in 1944 America. But nevertheless, we did not consider ourselves minorities, just U.S. citizens.You said, “I pray the Lord saves YOU from your bitterness!”
At least quote me correctly. My prayer to God for DK was “ I pray that the LORD will help you to come out of your bitterness. May you live a long and prosperous life, and be able to lend a helping hand to those that need it. ” That is an earnest prayer because I see a lot of resentment and bitterness in DK’s posts.
You said, “ Egads! You have every right to air your feelings. I have done the very same thing on another thread. However, it's one thing to be raised poor and deal with all the challenges that that presents, and quite another to be born a man of color in the United States. Get educated, Tim”
You obviously did not read anything I said Mandy. I never brought up race in a single response. Show it to me if I did. I talked about economic status. I recognized that economic discrepancies exist. It is you and DK that have made this a racial conversation.
The only time minorities were mentioned by me were in response to DK’s statements about minorities. As far as I know, you and DK were the only ones who even mentioned black or man of color. You have obviously tried to read something in my rebuttal to DK’s diatride against the U.S. that was not there.You said “ Don't let your own clear and present bias keep you from understanding your brother's set of circumstances. It may even allow you to show some empathy which is sadly missing from your heart today…..”
Am I biased because I do not agree with DK’s insistence that it is the fault of the United States that some groups suffer poor economic standards? Do you consider any disagreement a bias?
You can not judge the empathy in my heart for the truly poor. I spend hours every week donating my time and resources to the Lord’s Locker, a local organization that feeds the poor. We do not question what color they are. I give generously of my money to the United Way organization to help the needy. I was recently stopped by a homeless man on the streets of the city begging for money. Instead of giving him money, that I feared would be spent on booze or drugs, I took him to a restaurant and bought him lunch. Don’t question my empathy for the poor just because I do not have empathy for entire groups that want to blame someone else for their plight.You said, “This subject will divide us. I feel in many ways it irreversibly already has. “
Yes Mandy. Those that want to be set apart from the rest of society for whatever reason, are dividing themselves.
When you classify entire groups as disadvantaged simply because of their race or color, you are dividing us all.I am sorry that we are divided.
Tim
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 07 2008,05:43) Quote (TimothyVI @ June 07 2008,04:35) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 07 2008,03:41) The the problem with Non-minorities like yourself is they have the same answer everytime this topic is brought up
And exactly where in all of my posts did I say that I was non minority? Your prejudice is showing thru again.Tim
Tim,I am shocked and appalled by your many posts here.
Tell us, are you a minority? Are you a Black, Mexican, or Asian living in America? You never said. Perhaps I missed that bit amongst your words (read: public beating of our brother, DK).
I pray the Lord saves YOU from your bitterness! Egads! You have every right to air your feelings. I have done the very same thing on another thread. However, it's one thing to be raised poor and deal with all the challenges that that presents, and quite another to be born a man of color in the United States. Get educated, Tim. Don't let your own clear and present bias keep you from understanding your brother's set of circumstances. It may even allow you to show some empathy which is sadly missing from your heart today…..
This subject will divide us. I feel in many ways it irreversibly already has. Forgiveness and love is possible – will we lean towards it?
Mandy
MandyI appreciate you and the fact that you have adopted children especially minority children.
I am sure that you deal with all kinds of prejudices every day.
My son is a red head. Get this, when he was growing up he was going to a school that was about 90% black. The bad thing is not only did we have to deal with the fights he had with black kids ganging up on him because of his color but he had a double problem and that was the color of his hair.
All of his teachers were black. I can assure you that because my son was white he was treated differently in some cases. Many instances happened in the those years to prove this to us. My son hated school so bad that by the time he was 14 we couldnt make him go. We would fight with him everyday to go and even drop him off at the school and he would walk out the back door. We tried talking to the principal and the teachers about changing schools and getting him some help, and their respone was he needs to be disciplined and taught to listen. My interpretation of that was ” he is white, get over it”. That was the feeling my wife and I had and our feelings were later justified to be true.
He had missed enough school that the Principle filed charges with the state against us.
Keep in mind we could not make him go even if I beat him, then I go to jail. When I was growing up if you skipped school there was a truent officer that came looking for you and you would go before a juvinile judge as a kid and be warned that if you skip again then they would put you in a juvinile detention center for rebellioos children.
But no. My son didnt have to go to court, the charge was on me and my wife.
My wife and I stood before this Old judge and listened while the Principle and the teacher and social worker (all black) lied to the judge about my wife and I not trying to work with them for our son. Believe me or not. This is not a stretch.
My wife confronted them right there and said they were lieing.
The Old judge looked at me and said Sir I am going to read a poem to you, so he read this long poem about a Father and how he is to be an example to his children etc, etc.
Afterwords he looked at me and my wife and says ” Mr and Mrs, if your son misses one more day of school, 30 days in jail for each one of you and a $120.00 fine each today to be paid to this court. This was in the mid 90s and at that time $240.00 was a lot of money for us.
We left the court room knowing that race was the issue, and we know that if we had of been black this would not have happened.
We begged our son not to miss school and had to lay a heavy burden on him that the judge said if he misses one more day then we were going to jail for 30 days and that would mean we would loose our jobs and possibly our home because we could barely pay for it then. I was an ordained minister of a church I pioneered and pastored for 5 years.
We had prayed hard about all of this. I had taught my children about God and the scritpures. so I didnt need that old man to give me a lecture for I knew the problem was the school. Not saying my son was an Angel for he was not.
Anyway my son went faithfully out of fear for about 4 months and then stopped again. My wife and I lived in terror that we were gonna get arrested any day. Finally we got a letter from the school stating that since Michael had missed so much school that they had considered him a drop out and in so many words said they wipe their hands clean of him. The law in NC stated that a child could drop out at 15 legally. My son was close to that so they considered it done.
Well my Son dropped out of school in the 7th grade. But I have to tell you that for him, leaving that school was a good thing. We noticed his whole demeanor changed and he had a new respect for us as his parents and the fighting was gone.
I can tell you my son was the one we worried about the most, but the good news is even though he was the one we least expected to go to college from our children, he got his GED with letters of commendation for his high scores and graduated from IT tech school with certifications and now is the highest paid in our family as an IT Tech Supervisor for a huge company. Ironically he dates black girls and thats what he likes. We are still friends of his Ex, she is a real sweet girl and I love her like a daughter. My wife and her and my wifes daughter are going to fresh market together tomorrow. Keeana is her name and Keeana wants to learn how to grow a garden and how to can food, which my wife is teaching her.
Now to your post Mandy.
I think you are being unfair towards Tim.
Dk sticks his anti-american retoric out there and then trys to say its not about rascism. So why should he expect some to not respond to his inflaming comments.
The point is it should'nt be about “African Americans”, “Hispanic Americans” or “White Americans”, this is what divides “America”. When the anti-american terrorist ran the planes into the two towers and killed 3500 inocent Americans, “America” was united as America. There was a 98% approval rate of our President and America was united like never before.
What makes America great and strong is this is the land of the free, and opportunity, and the land of all peoples and color and tongue.
Goodness, would Barak Obama be nominated as a candidate for the President of the US, if America is as DK says it is?Many in the world are dying trying to get to our Nation.
Racial prejudice is found everywhere and it isnt isolated to one particular group. Cato has pointed out how the Hispanic minorities by a little out number the black, yet you see them flouishing.
My best friend had to give up his painting buisness because he was being undercut by the illegals who live with two or three familys in one house and can afford to work for cheaper wages. There are hardships in every race and ethnic group. We could fill this thre
ad with hardship stories from every group.So I agree with Tim that you can look at the glass half empty or half full.
If America is so bad then why arnt people dying to get out of her? The finger pointing has to stop or racism will never go away.
Just my Opinion.
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 07 2008,05:48) Quote
Take the hot button issue of race; minority status shifts constantly.Blacks have always been the minority in America, that has never shifted. This statement, whether you realize it or not, degrades the issue for Blacks. True, if you are a White person in Oakland, CA, for instance, you will be the minority, but you resume your status of a majority the minute you leave that town. That is not a good enough “status shift” to justify oversimplifying the problem faced by many colored minorities, imo.
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the city I work I am a minority,Case in point – the minute you leave the city where you work, you are undoubtedly back in the majority. The minority races that work alongside of you do not have this luxury when they leave work. They are Black (or whatever) no matter what city they are in. So the challenges you face are not the same. You may have a peek into their world, but you do not live in their world.
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Oh well that's my thoughts for the day.As you know Cato, I always appreciate your thoughts. I still have much respect for you. I hope that you can hear my thoughts today with equal appreciation. This is a sensitive subject for me, obviously. Keep in mind that I comfort my minority children when they are teased, kept out of games because of their “squinty” eyes. Luckily both of my children are fairly popluar, but I am aware of those who are not as liked and isolated because of their color. Where do these children learn these behaviors? Makes one wonder…..
Thanks for listening to my rant,
Mandy
Mandy,I was going to write this earlier, but now that I see WJ and Tim have responded I am reticent for I don't want to be perceived as ganging up on you which is not my intent. I thought my previous post was unemotional and quite accurate in that majority/minority status shifts upon the definitions of boundaries. You evidently disagree as the only minority status that counts is at a national level according to you. The fact one may be a minority in the world or his work or area doesn't apply. to quote you “They are Black (or whatever) no matter what city they are in. So the challenges you face are not the same. You may have a peek into their world, but you do not live in their world.” So they don't live in mine or face my challenges. so where does that leave us? You accuse me of lack of empathy, I think you are patronizing.
Let me inform you that previously I was a single father who raised two Korean step-daughters (now grown and married), I have a 17 year old half Korean son. Six years ago I married again this time to a woman from the Philippines and now have 2 half Filipina daughters 1 and 4. I live in a neighborhood that is Chinese, Hispanic, White and Middle Eastern. I work in Washington, DC for an African American boss who works for a Mexican American executive. For the past 15 years all my personal friends are Vietnames, I am the only non-Vietnamese in our group. All my friends came over as children or young adults from Vietnam by boat to Thailand or the Philippines and came to America as post war refugees. Now they are all engineers, lawyers and scientists, their children all speak perfect English and they think America is the greatest country on Earth. Asian Americans have educational rates equivalent to Whites and their economic gains are astounding especially considering how many are recent arrivals to the USA. Why is this, they are not only of a different race they also are a different nationality and language background. Maybe it is because their cultures respect authority and value education. Maybe they were motivated to get ahead because of pride and the desire to set up a better life. Try telling my friends who were re-educated by the communists about the terrible racist regime in the USA, they will laugh for they have seen true evil.
Yes their is racism here as there is everywhere and it is all bad. Yet in my travels and studies I would rather be a minority in the USA or Canada then anywhere else in the world. How do you think minorities are treated in Mother Africa or the Balkans in Europe, Sri Lanka, Tibet. The USA looks pretty good by comparison. Instead of being mad at Timothy you should reflect on the views that proclaim your country worse then the Nazis.
Mandy I respect you and we have often been in agreement on many issues (except tattoos I am a bit old fashioned after all) but in your rush to defend what you view as the downtrodden I think you likewise made a rush to judgement, not in my case but in Timothy's, your reaction there was most unsettling and unforgiving. I think if Tim told you he was a past drug dealer or criminal you would have been more understanding then his descriptions of his own frustrations and struggles because they were not politically correct.
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