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Hi,
Jesus constantly used parables to bypass the deceived intellects of men and reach their childlike hearts. He used common everyday experiences and nature itself to reveal simple truths. At times he used irony and even mild exaggeration to illustrate things such as with the beam in the eye. Things do get in our eyes and can disturb our view but Jesus showed that those who claimed to see more than others often had greater perceptive disabilities than those they were trying to teach.
Jesus is the truth. No lie was ever found in his mouth. So even with parables you cannot say he spoke of things that do not exist or are not as he showed them. We know almost nothing of Hades and the bosom of Abraham so why would we dare say Jesus lied in his descriptions of it in Lk 16 just because he used it as a parable?Which parts can we not accept?
Men see and feel without eyes?
Do angels have eyes to see?Why did Jesus speak in parables? Did he do it to reach the childlike hearts of men, to reveal simple truths through parables?
Let”s hear from the very mouth of Jesus why he used parables.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
He used parables so that they seeing and hearing, they still would not understand.
Why would he do that?Again, let Jesus tell us why. What did he tell his desciples?
Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables:
( Because it is not given to them to know the mystery of the kingdom of God.)Tim
Hi Tim,
I agree.
So he used nothing new or unreal in any parable but rather used commonplace and simple matters to reveal truth. If so then is Lk 16 not a true parable? Did he make up things and use untruths to reveal the need for men to be charitable and to share their blessings?LUKE 16: THE PARABLE OF THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS
Teachers of hellfire quickly point to this account as definite proof that there is indeed a hell of torment that awaits the wicked. But, in so doing, they disregard such clear and repeated Biblical statements as: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (Ezekiel 18:4, 20; Compare Rom 6:7,23) And: “As for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5) Clearly these statements do not support the idea of torment for lost souls in a fiery hell.
If the story of the rich man and lazarus is to be taken literally, then it would contradict many other parts of the Bible. (Please see the 10 points I made earlier for example.) But the Bible does not contradict itself. So what does this parable given by Jesus mean? (Mat 13:34,35)Actually, let’s make clear what it doesn’t mean first:
THE STORY ISN’T LITERAL (Mt 13:34,35)
Note what is said about the rich man. Why was he tormented in Hades? What had he done? Jesus did not say that the rich man led a degraded life, did he? All that Jesus said was that the man was rich, dressed well and feasted sumptuously. Does such conduct of itself merit punishment by torment? True, a serious failing is implied in the attitude of the rich man toward the beggar Lazarus. The rich man lacked compassion for him. But did that failing distinguish him sufficiently from Lazarus?
Think about what Jesus said concerning Lazarus. Is there anything in the account to lead us to conclude that, if the situation had been reversed, Lazarus would have been a compassionate man? Do we read that Lazarus built up a record of fine works with God, leading to his coming into the “bosom position of Abraham,” that is, a position of divine favor? Jesus did not say that. He merely described Lazarus as a sickly beggar.So is it logical to conclude that all sickly beggars will receive divine blessings at death, whereas all rich men will go to a place of conscious torment?
Not at all. Begging is of itself no mark of God’s favor. To the contrary, the Bible contains the prayerful expression: “Give me neither poverty nor riches.” (Proverbs 30:8)
If we take Jesus’ words literally, we would have to draw still other conclusions that would make the illustration strange indeed. These include: That those enjoying celestial happiness are in position to see and speak to those suffering torment in Hades despite the “great chasm” between them; that there is water down in Hades into which a person can dip the finger; that the water on one’s fingertip would not be evaporated by the fire of Hades; that, although the torment of Hades is great, a mere drop of water would bring relief to the sufferer; that those enjoying divine favor could all fit at the bosom of one man, Abraham.
Taken literally, do these things sound reasonable to you? Is this story given by Jesus meant to be taken literally? (Mt 13:34,35)
If it were literal, it would conflict with other parts of the Bible. If the Bible were thus contradictory, would a lover of truth use it as a basis for his faith?
But the Bible does not contradict itself.As A New Testament Commentary (1969) well notes, to consider it historical “ignores the element of symbolism that is quite apparent in the story,” such as “Abraham’s bosom, the great Chasm fixed and this flame.”
It is also significant that Jesus said nothing about the rich man as being wicked or the poor man as being good. Considered as a parable, it cannot be used to prove life after death.WHAT THE PARABLE MEANS–(WITHOUT A LOT OF EXPLANATION)
The “rich man” represented the self-important religious leaders who are favored with spiritual privileges and opportunities, and who rejected Jesus. (See verse 14.) The beggar Lazarus represented the common Jewish people who were despised by the Pharisees but who hunger for spiritual nourishment. (See Luke 18:11; John 7:49; Matthew 21:31, 32.) Their deaths were also symbolic, representing a change in circumstances or condition, (as death is sometimes figuratively used in the Bible). This change took place when Jesus spiritually fed the formerly despised ones, the neglected Lazarus-like people, so that they die to their former spiritually deprived condition and were brought into the bosom, or favored position of divine favor with the Greater Abraham, Jehovah God. (In the Bible, Abraham sometimes pictures Jehovah.) Whereas they had earlier looked to the religious leaders for what little dropped from the spiritual table, now the Scriptural truths imparted by Jesus are filling their needs. At the same time, the formerly seemingly favored ones (the false religious leaders) were rejected by God or “died” with respect to having God’s favor. Jesus has just finished pointing to a change in circumstances by saying that ‘the Law and the Prophets were until John the Baptizer, but from then on the kingdom of God is being declared.’ Hence, it is with the preaching of John and Jesus Christ that both the rich man and Lazarus die to their former circumstances, or condition. The change in conditions is accomplished a few months later at Pentecost 33 C.E., when the old Law covenant is replaced by the new covenant. It then becomes unmistakably clear that the disciples are favored by God, not the Pharisees and other religious leaders. Being cast off, they suffered torments when Christ’s followers exposed their evil works. They were tormented by God’s fiery judgement messages delivered by the ones whom they had despised. (Acts 5:33; 7:51-57) The “great chasm” that separates the symbolic rich man from Jesus’ disciples therefore represents God’s unchangeable, righteous judgment. (Read Ps 36:6) The rich man next requests “father Abraham” to send Lazarus “to the house of my father, for I have five brothers.” The rich man thus confesses he has a closer relationship to another father, who is actually Satan the Devil. (See John 8:44) Why five brothers? Why not another number? The five brothers (with the rich man making six, a symbol of the Devil’s organization) represented all the admirers and supporters of the religious rulers, and manifesting the same spirit. The rich man requests that Lazarus water down God’s judgment messages so as not to put his “five brothers,” his religious allies, in “this place of torment.” “But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to these.’” Yes, if the “five brothers” would escape torment, all they have to do is heed the writings of Moses and the Prophets that identify Jesus as the Messiah and then become his disciples. But the rich man objects: “‘No, indeed, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them they will repent.’ More than once the Pharisees and others asked Jesus to “display to them a sign from heaven.” ” (Matt. 16:1-4; 12:38-41) Going on, “Father Abraham” said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead.’” (Compare John 5:39,46,47) God will not provide special signs or miracles to convince such. People must read and apply the Scriptures if they would obtain his favor. (See Luke 16:16) For example, Peter’s stirring message on the day of Pentecost was based entirely on quotations from the Hebrew Scriptures, from Moses (the Law) and the Prophets and the Psalms. The fact that three thousand immediately responded and were baptized proved that the Hebrew Scriptures in themselves were a sufficient warning and guide to those willing to listen, many of whom were formerly adherents of Judaism.—Acts 2:41.The fire is no more literal than Abraham’s bosom. (Luke 16:22-24)
Nick, if you deny the rest of scripture and mold this parable to fit your Greek philosophic platanic babylonish beliefs….
Hi,
Some seem to prefer to allegorise what they cannot tolerate as truth but should we treat scripture like that?
Are not parables drawn from reality?Quote Hi david,
All you have to do is sit at the feet of Jesus to learn.
But do not call him a liar.
Please quote where I did this. What I have done is repeatedly said that you are misunderstanding this parable. It is clearly a parable. Here's the thing. This is the main cornerstone scripture for you on your belief that Jehovah tortures people alive in fire for all time.
I would think it more wise to start with the simpler more clear easy to understand scriptures that aren't parables. If your understanding of the parable does not match scripture as a whole, then your understanding is wrong. Scripture does not contradict itself.david
It's good to compare texts with other statements in the Bible that deal with the same subject. In that way we are letting God’s own Word guide our thinking, and the interpretation is not ours but his.
When scriptures are found that clearly contradict previously held views, those views are quickly discarded, as they cannot be correct.
Nick, you'll notice that trintarians have to find all the scriptures that could go either way and that their interpretation of these scriptures contradicts the greater majority of the entire Bible. Why do they need to use those scriptures?
Similarly, I say the same to you, with this one parable. You are doing just as they do, but you seem blind to it. I ask that you at least consider the possibility that you have blinded your own mind to the vast majority of scriptures, to the very personality and qualities of God, and to God's very nature, his love and justice and wisdom.
Why cling to your interpretation to sacrifice all these other things?I believe Jesus. But what do YOU do Nick when YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT YOU THINK JESUS IS SAYING contradicts JESUS OTHER WORDS and the great majority of the Bible?
Do you believe Jesus contradicts the rest of the Bible or himself?
Maybe what you believe isn't Jesus, but what you want to believe you THINK he was saying.
Its funny whenyou blow in a dogs face! it gets angry
Then when you take it for a ride in the car then it wants to stick its head out the windowcharity
Woof! Woof!
1Sa 24:13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: but mine hand shall not be upon thee.
1Sa 24:14 After whom is the king of Israel come out? after whom dost thou pursue? after a dead dog, after a flea.Is the parable PURSUING THE DOG OR THE FLEA?
One or two things maybe seencharity
The lord is willing to show us shocking things on correct Interpretations; pre Told parable of the seeds; by Eze
The lord pleads with the King of Babylon over his transgression V;20 before his destruction concerning a covenant choice and the people under the Law cursed unto death mystery Babylon the great.Eze 17:2 Son of man, put forth a riddle, and speak a parable unto the house of Israel;
Eze 17:8 It was planted in a good soil by great waters, that it might bring forth branches, and that it might bear fruit, that it might be a goodly vine.
Eze 17:9 ¶ Say thou, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Shall it prosper? shall he not pull up the roots thereof, and cut off the fruit thereof, that it wither? it shall wither in all the leaves of her spring, even without great power or many people to pluck it up by the roots thereof.
Eze 17:10 Yea, behold, [being] planted, shall it prosper? shall it not utterly wither, when the east wind toucheth it? it shall wither in the furrows where it grew.
Eze 17:11 ¶ Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Eze 17:12 Say now to the rebellious house, Know ye not what these [things mean]? tell [them], Behold, the king of Babylon is come to Jerusalem, and hath taken the king thereof, and the princes thereof, and led them with him to Babylon;
Eze 17:13 And hath taken of the king's seed, and made a covenant with him, and hath taken an oath of him: he hath also taken the mighty of the land:
Eze 17:14 That the kingdom might be base, that it might not lift itself up, [but] that by keeping of his covenant it might stand.
Eze 17:15 But he rebelled against him in sending his ambassadors into Egypt, that they might give him horses and much people. Shall he prosper? shall he escape that doeth such [things]? or shall he break the covenant, and be delivered?
Eze 17:16 [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely in the place [where] the king [dwelleth] that made him king, whose oath he despised, and whose covenant he brake, [even] with him in the midst of Babylon he shall die.
Eze 17:17 Neither shall Pharaoh with [his] mighty army and great company make for him in the war, by casting up mounts, and building forts, to cut off many persons:
Eze 17:18 Seeing he despised the oath by breaking the covenant, when, lo, he had given his hand, and hath done all these [things], he shall not escape.
Eze 17:19 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; [As] I live, surely mine oath that he hath despised, and my covenant that he hath broken, even it will I recompense upon his own head.Eze 17:20 And I will spread my net upon him, and he shall be taken in my snare, and I will bring him to Babylon, and will plead with him there for his trespass that he hath trespassed against me.(Gods Love is mighty speechless am I)
O TO SEE THE FACE OF GOD; AND KNOW HIM.
One covenant the law of kindness and Love; for the only power he the king of babylon has is to hold us under the oath2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Surly we should not be waiting on this Man to come? for already many has he consumned; by neglect to alert the children of choice of covenants unto death or life?
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.charity
In Luke 8:10, Mark 4:11-12 and Matt 13:11-16 Jesus tells us the answer to why He talked in Parables.
The Valley of Dry Bones
Ezekiel 37
1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the LORD and set me in the middle of a valley; it was full of bones. 2 He led me back and forth among them, and I saw a great many bones on the floor of the valley, bones that were very dry. 3 He asked me, “Son of man, can these bones live?”
I said, “O Sovereign LORD, you alone know.”
4 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to these bones and say to them, 'Dry bones, hear the word of the LORD! 5 This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life. 6 I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.' ”7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8 I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them.
9 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe into these slain, that they may live.' ” 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet—a vast army.
11 Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.' 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: O my people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. 13 Then you, my people, will know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. 14 I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the LORD have spoken, and I have done it, declares the LORD.' “
* The Valley of Dry Bones in Ezekiel 37 is a mainly, stark, parable. 'Prophesy to the bones', 'declare the Gospel to them.' We are the bones, we have no life. The bones are dry, the opposite of wet. Once God saves us, we now have the water of life in us, Jn 4:14; 7:38.
Dem bones dem bomes, dem dry bones,
Dem bones dem bomes, dem dry bones,
Dem bones dem bomes, dem dry bones,
hear the word of the Lord.I couldn't help it.
I hear that song in my head every time I see those scriptures.
Tim
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