original sin

[peace2all]

why do you you think this world is as bad as it is. we are not born wanting to do whats right but are having to fight off wrong constantly or we can easily stray. sin is law sin is here , we are born into it. just don't act on it and youy can master it. off course you would want gods protection and guidence

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 20 2009,04:49)

Hi BD, Is this the CORRUPTED SPIRIT you speak of? Not a soul choice then?

Are you speaking to bodhitharta or me. I am confused since I did not hear him mention a corrupted spirit.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 18 2009,16:24)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 18 2009,09:40) Quote (peace2all @ Nov. 18 2009,14:31) romans 5:12,13 – says a lot.    “that is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.  for until the law sin was in the world but sin is not charged against anyone when there is no law……so it clearly says that there was sin from the begining but if there was no act on it then it cannot be charged against anyone, but the act of sin did accure when adam & eve disobeyed god and we thus given death and kicked out of eden. and all offspring hasa inherited tht trait. “death spread to all men because they had all sinned”.  i use gods wrod the bible scriptures not own opinions or man made intertwined ideas and doctrines. You are completely wrong if you were right God would have told cain he was born in sin, yet he told Cain that he could rule over it. Could you please point me to the address of that scripture.  Thank you.

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Genesis 4:6-8

Genesis 4:7 (English Standard Version)
7(A) If you do well, will you not be accepted?[a] And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door.(B) Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it.”

[bodhitharta]

Quote (peace2all @ Nov. 19 2009,01:09)

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 18 2009,16:31) hi all we grow old and shorter lives because God has maded that way at flood with Noah,but the reasons why we guetting sick and cripled this his in gread part our own doing,but wath is good is that God will give everyone the oportunity to accept his way to salvation through his word,if you accepted ,you are free to choose. he did shorten it after the flood, but they still got sick and old and died after they ate of the fruit as to why we do is right there in romans 5:12. it is inherited pass down, given too whatever yuo want to call it. after they disobeyed god we were also given death and sicknes and old age. why do you people totally ignore the scriptures?  can't see how one can gain knowledge in gods word if u don't adhere to what is being shown  in scripture – gods word. how or why you ignore or bypass whay is there is palin foolish and is very harmful to your quest to do gods will or attain understanding of his words(his wiil for man). stop arguing and fighting it if theres no direct scriptual basis or you questioning.

You really don't understand do you, God did not tell Adam and Eve that they were created immortal if they were there would not have been a tree of life, you are clearly wrong.

Can you show me ONE verse that says man was originally made to live forever.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Gene @ Nov. 20 2009,04:14)

Adam………….Beware of the leaven of the Jews, they have a hatred for Paul , I know this from personal experience with them. Paul does not disagree with Jesus and Had himself been Schooled in the LAW by a well know teacher of His day, He fully knew their teachings and there rejection of Jesus and HIS words. Do not become ensnared by them. IMO with much love to you and yours Adam………………….gene

That's interesting, The Jews find Paul a False Prophet and so do Most Muslims and in-fact even som eChristians believe that perhaps he is the “man of Sin”

Is that possible?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (RokkaMan @ Nov. 20 2009,04:39)

Quote (dirtyknections @ Nov. 18 2009,07:48) Ok…for those that may wonder…I consider myself a Deist…but I have as of late been thinking about the concept of “original sin” I'll start by asking a question…and we will see where this goes… Is it fair that I be punished for something I did not do? Yes because Jesus suffered for sins he did not do. Original sin goes hand in hand in WHY God sacrificed his only begotten son. And if Adam/Eve did not commit that original sin, you would not be born into this world. So you not only are a product of that sin, but you are also having to live in its shadow of punishment. But God as made a way to be redeemed, why did he do it like this? Because he is fashioning mankind to be like him…and it's something we have to experience to go where he wants to take us. Amen.

What do you mean he would not be born in this world?

God had already told them to be fruiful and multiply, did you mean something else?

[peace2all]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 20 2009,10:39)

Quote (peace2all @ Nov. 19 2009,01:09) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 18 2009,16:31) hi all we grow old and shorter lives because God has maded that way at flood with Noah,but the reasons why we guetting sick and cripled this his in gread part our own doing,but wath is good is that God will give everyone the oportunity to accept his way to salvation through his word,if you accepted ,you are free to choose. he did shorten it after the flood, but they still got sick and old and died after they ate of the fruit as to why we do is right there in romans 5:12. it is inherited pass down, given too whatever yuo want to call it. after they disobeyed god we were also given death and sicknes and old age. why do you people totally ignore the scriptures?  can't see how one can gain knowledge in gods word if u don't adhere to what is being shown  in scripture – gods word. how or why you ignore or bypass whay is there is palin foolish and is very harmful to your quest to do gods will or attain understanding of his words(his wiil for man). stop arguing and fighting it if theres no direct scriptual basis or you questioning. You really don't understand do you, God did not tell Adam and Eve that they were created immortal if they were there would not have been a tree of life, you are clearly wrong. Can you show me ONE verse that says man was originally made to live forever.

psalms 37:29 – gods plan has not changed from the begining

we have no idead if they were allowed to eat from it or not there was the tree of knowledge of good and bad and there is also the mention of the tree of life and then trees for food. never did it say they ever partook of it or touched it or actually seen it or anything it doesn't say anything about the tree at all. it just said the tree of life. now when they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and bad they we thus given death and kicked out, so therefore they were not allowed to eat of it thus living forever and reside on it., it really doesn't say, why would you want to focus so much on it if its not made to be a point that anywhere in the bible explained for that type of denial. it doesn't or won't prove or disprove anything. you will not accept psalms 37:29 anyways so why ask. you will requestion and lead off to someother type of way to ignore or deny gods words.

[peace2all]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 20 2009,11:16)

Quote (RokkaMan @ Nov. 20 2009,04:39) Quote (dirtyknections @ Nov. 18 2009,07:48) Ok…for those that may wonder…I consider myself a Deist…but I have as of late been thinking about the concept of “original sin” I'll start by asking a question…and we will see where this goes… Is it fair that I be punished for something I did not do? Yes because Jesus suffered for sins he did not do. Original sin goes hand in hand in WHY God sacrificed his only begotten son. And if Adam/Eve did not commit that original sin, you would not be born into this world. So you not only are a product of that sin, but you are also having to live in its shadow of punishment. But God as made a way to be redeemed, why did he do it like this? Because he is fashioning mankind to be like him…and it's something we have to experience to go where he wants to take us. Amen. What do you mean he would not be born in this world? God had already told them to be fruiful and multiply, did you mean something else?

think he means into this inherited world where sin has been made law – since death followed. and thats what is still here today as it was right after they commited that act of sin. then again you knew what he ment cuz im sure you read all of what he wrote. you like playing games i c

[peace2all]

sofar there are like two or three regular posters here that will deny and argue and not accept anything said unless its their own perception..the truth, scriptures, gods words, no matter if jesus was here telling them they would ignore and deny and distort, so its pointless

[Everlasting father Jesus]

Quote (peace2all @ Nov. 20 2009,11:40)

sofar there are like two or three regular posters here that will deny and argue and not accept anything said unless its their own perception..the truth, scriptures, gods words, no matter if jesus was here telling them they would ignore and deny and distort, so its pointless

Jesus never mentioned Original Sin, at least I don't think he did could you show me the scriptures for that

[peace2all]

Quote (Everlasting father Jesus @ Nov. 20 2009,12:13)

Quote (peace2all @ Nov. 20 2009,11:40) sofar there are like two or three regular posters here that will deny and argue and not accept anything said unless its their own perception..the truth, scriptures, gods words, no matter if jesus was here telling them they would ignore and deny and distort, so its pointless Jesus never mentioned Original Sin, at least I don't think he did could you show me the scriptures for that

where are you getting original sin? i don't even understand what you are asking. i didn't know jesus wrote the bible, thats new to me. didn't know that gods word the scriptures wasn't good enough for you but have to be from christ only? not sure what you saying.

[peace2all]

please show me anywhere in the bible that says the opposite to roman 5:12,13 which clearly tells us how it came about and what happened after that from it. please i will gladly read it. cuz it clearly in detail tells you all about its inception and what happened after due to it being made law a chargable action.

[Everlasting father Jesus]

Quote (peace2all @ Nov. 20 2009,13:07)

please show me anywhere in the bible that says the opposite to roman 5:12,13 which clearly tells us how it came about and what happened after that from it. please i will gladly read it. cuz it clearly in detail tells you all about its inception and what happened after due to it being made law a chargable action.

Here you are peace2all,

these scriptures show that sin comes from temptation and not from birth. Adam and Eve were tempted and drawn away of their own lust.

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Genesis 4:6-8

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:13-15

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
James 1:11-13

Romans 5:12, 13 does not account for the temptation that comes before sin so we cannot be born with sin otherwise we would not need to be tempted to sin so I guess yoy will now correct your thinking knowing taht you didn't see what was thetruth but have been shown now. I use to believe what you believe in that I it's hard to admit you failed temptations it's easier to think you're born that way.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 20 2009,11:14)

Quote (Gene @ Nov. 20 2009,04:14) Adam………….Beware of the leaven of the Jews, they have a hatred for Paul , I know this from personal experience with them. Paul does not disagree with Jesus and Had himself been Schooled in the LAW by a well know teacher of His day, He fully knew their teachings and there rejection of Jesus and HIS words. Do not become ensnared by them. IMO with much love to you and yours Adam………………….gene That's interesting, The Jews find Paul a False Prophet and so do Most Muslims and in-fact even som eChristians believe that perhaps he is the “man of Sin” Is that possible?

DB…..Paul was the strongest supporter of Jesus in record, he even died for the gospel of Christ. He took that gospel to the gentiles. And was recieved by all the Apostles. Your discredit of him is Islam at its worst, You say you believe the words of Christ out of one side of you mouth and then you disbelieve Him also, that my friend is Hypocrisy at its worst, As Far as the Man of Sin Goes that is the false image of Jesus being displayed as a GOD or the TRINITY. There is (NO) real man of SIN , it is a (FALSE IMAGE) taught about Jesus being GOD which He will destory at His return. As (PAUL) said in Ths 2:2. DB if your religion turns you against Christ and the Apostles it is in true error. Maybe if you would dump Islam and take the true words of Jesus and the Apostles to Heart you could change your views. IMO

gene

[peace2all]

Quote (Everlasting father Jesus @ Nov. 20 2009,15:13)

Quote (peace2all @ Nov. 20 2009,13:07) please show me anywhere in the bible that says the opposite to roman 5:12,13 which clearly tells us how it came about and what happened after that from it. please i will gladly read it. cuz it clearly in detail tells you all about its inception and what happened after due to it being made law a chargable action. Here you are peace2all,   these scriptures show that sin comes from temptation and not from birth. Adam and Eve were tempted and drawn away of their own lust. If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. Genesis 4:6-8 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:13-15 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. James 1:11-13 Romans 5:12, 13 does not account for the temptation that comes before sin so we cannot be born with sin otherwise we would not need to be tempted to sin so I guess yoy will now correct your thinking knowing taht you didn't see what was thetruth but have been shown now. I use to believe what you believe in that I it's hard to admit you failed temptations it's easier to think you're born that way.

wow, i am not saying that SIN is attached to,or part of man,or man itself . it is our present system of things, sin law was created and it exsists. the earth is not yet ruled under gods kingdom, it is still ruled by satan. things will go to how he wanted it originally when jesus returns. again sin is not part of man not made of man not born of man it is seperate. what has that got to do with the origin and the passing of such sin law. you all are taking it so out of context with the whole birth thing! we are born into this world, this system of thing that is ruled by satan and that has the law of sin since its inception from the act of disobedience from adam & eve . im not writting in riddles or hard to read words, why are confusing this? again i did not say we are born WITH sin! i said born IN sin. into this world we are born -BORN IN. BORN INTO THIS WORLD. again sin was always here but did not become law chargeable to anyone until it was acted on. NEVER DID I SAY WE ARE BORN OF SIN. you are putting words in my mouth you distort what i said.

[peace2all]

a few who deny the scripture keep applying it to born of or we are sin within us. never does the scripture say that and neither did i . why do you people keep commenting on things that are not what was said. stop arguing something you made up. your arguing with yourself

[kerwin]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 20 2009,05:33)

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 18 2009,16:24) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 18 2009,09:40) Quote (peace2all @ Nov. 18 2009,14:31) romans 5:12,13 – says a lot.    “that is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.  for until the law sin was in the world but sin is not charged against anyone when there is no law……so it clearly says that there was sin from the begining but if there was no act on it then it cannot be charged against anyone, but the act of sin did accure when adam & eve disobeyed god and we thus given death and kicked out of eden. and all offspring hasa inherited tht trait. “death spread to all men because they had all sinned”.  i use gods wrod the bible scriptures not own opinions or man made intertwined ideas and doctrines. You are completely wrong if you were right God would have told cain he was born in sin, yet he told Cain that he could rule over it. Could you please point me to the address of that scripture.  Thank you. If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. Genesis 4:6-8 Genesis 4:7 (English Standard Version) 7(A) If you do well, will you not be accepted?[a] And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door.(B) Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it.”

Thank you for answering my question though Marty pointed me to that scripture and so I answered your point previously.

[kerwin]

Quote (Everlasting father Jesus @ Nov. 20 2009,07:13)

Quote (peace2all @ Nov. 20 2009,11:40) sofar there are like two or three regular posters here that will deny and argue and not accept anything said unless its their own perception..the truth, scriptures, gods words, no matter if jesus was here telling them they would ignore and deny and distort, so its pointless Jesus never mentioned Original Sin, at least I don't think he did could you show me the scriptures for that

In John 8 Jesus teaches his students that he will set them free from servitude to sin.  The question then is why do they need to be set free if they are free already.  If they are not free then why is that so.  The tenet of original sin, that I believe in, answers that question.

Jesus also taught that we must be reborn in spirit and water thus putting the corrupt spirit of mankind (the flesh) to death and being reborn into the spirit of righteousness.  In this way our attitude changes into being like the Anointed One's.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Gene @ Nov. 20 2009,15:15)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 20 2009,11:14) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 20 2009,04:14) Adam………….Beware of the leaven of the Jews, they have a hatred for Paul , I know this from personal experience with them. Paul does not disagree with Jesus and Had himself been Schooled in the LAW by a well know teacher of His day, He fully knew their teachings and there rejection of Jesus and HIS words. Do not become ensnared by them. IMO with much love to you and yours Adam………………….gene That's interesting, The Jews find Paul a False Prophet and so do Most Muslims and in-fact even som eChristians believe that perhaps he is the “man of Sin” Is that possible? DB…..Paul was the strongest  supporter of Jesus in record, he even died for the gospel of Christ. He took that gospel to the gentiles. And was recieved by all the Apostles. Your discredit of him is Islam at its worst,  You say you believe the words of Christ out of one side of you mouth and then you disbelieve Him also, that my friend is Hypocrisy at its worst, As Far as the Man of Sin Goes that is the false image of Jesus being displayed as a GOD or the TRINITY. There is (NO) real man of SIN , it is a (FALSE IMAGE) taught about Jesus being GOD which He will destory at His return. As (PAUL) said in Ths 2:2.  DB if your religion turns you against Christ and the Apostles it is in true error. Maybe if you would dump Islam and take the true words of Jesus and the Apostles to Heart you could change your views.  IMO gene

Paul didn't represent a false image of Christ even calling him “God”?

Paul didn't misquote scripture saying that God said:?

Psalm 45 (King James Version)

6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

Paul attributed that to God speaking about the Christ but the fact is the verse was not spoken by God at all

Psalm 45:1-7 (King James Version)

Psalm 45
1My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.

2Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.

3Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.

Paul simply misquoted the verse and this

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hebrews 1:7-9

is one of the main verses that Christians use to say that Jesus is God, isn't that a false image?

Paul does it again going directly against what God says:

Jeremiah 9:24 (New King James Version)
24 But let him who glories glory in this,
That he understands and knows Me,
That I am the LORD, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth.
For in these I delight,” says the LORD.

but Paul says:

1 Corinthians 1:31 (King James Version)

31That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

is that what Jereniah 9:24 says?

but Paul says instead he glories or boasts the cross

Galatians 6:14 (New King James Version)
14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom[a] the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

He gave importance to “the cross” over God

Luke 16:15 (King James Version)

15And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

ready for another corruption

Psalm 14
1The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

paul says

Romans 3:10 (King James Version)

10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

The first verse in psalm 14:1 is clearly talking about atheists or nonbelievers but Paul conveniently leaves out the context to mislead that the scripture calls everyone unrighteous.

Romans 2:16 (King James Version)

16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Romans 3:7 (King James Version)

7For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

The Prophet Daniel says:

Daniel 8:25 (New King James Version)
25 “ Through his cunning
He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule;[a]
And he shall exalt himself in his heart.
He shall destroy many in their prosperity.
He shall even rise against the Prince of princes;
But he shall be broken without human means.[

Paul confesses

2 Corinthians 12:16 (New King James Version)
16 But be that as it may, I did not burden you. Nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you by cunning!

The flesh and blood of Jesus

1 John 4:3

3 and every spirit that does not confess that[a] Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

But Paul says:

Philippians 2:7 (New King James Version)
7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.

Romans 8:3 (New King James Version)
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,

Did Jesus really have “sinful”flesh?

And how did Paul say Jesus came to him?

Acts 22:9 (New King James Version)
9 “And those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid,[a] but they did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to me.

No flesh and bones?

Luke 24:39 (New King James Version)
39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”

The angels told the disciples of Jesus how they saw him go was how he would return and he left with flesh and bones

Besides Jesus had warned you of false prophets before hand saying:

Matthew 24:23-25 (King James Version)

23Then if any man shall say unto you, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25Behold, I have told you before.

If you want to debate this issue lets debate it. I'm giving you all 100% Christian proof.

[peace2all]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 20 2009,18:12)

Quote (Gene @ Nov. 20 2009,15:15) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 20 2009,11:14) Quote (Gene @ Nov. 20 2009,04:14) Adam………….Beware of the leaven of the Jews, they have a hatred for Paul , I know this from personal experience with them. Paul does not disagree with Jesus and Had himself been Schooled in the LAW by a well know teacher of His day, He fully knew their teachings and there rejection of Jesus and HIS words. Do not become ensnared by them. IMO with much love to you and yours Adam………………….gene That's interesting, The Jews find Paul a False Prophet and so do Most Muslims and in-fact even som eChristians believe that perhaps he is the “man of Sin” Is that possible? DB…..Paul was the strongest  supporter of Jesus in record, he even died for the gospel of Christ. He took that gospel to the gentiles. And was recieved by all the Apostles. Your discredit of him is Islam at its worst,  You say you believe the words of Christ out of one side of you mouth and then you disbelieve Him also, that my friend is Hypocrisy at its worst, As Far as the Man of Sin Goes that is the false image of Jesus being displayed as a GOD or the TRINITY. There is (NO) real man of SIN , it is a (FALSE IMAGE) taught about Jesus being GOD which He will destory at His return. As (PAUL) said in Ths 2:2.  DB if your religion turns you against Christ and the Apostles it is in true error. Maybe if you would dump Islam and take the true words of Jesus and the Apostles to Heart you could change your views.  IMO gene Paul didn't represent a false image of Christ even calling him “God”? Paul didn't misquote scripture saying that God said:? Psalm 45 (King James Version)  6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Paul attributed that to God speaking about the Christ but the fact is the verse was not spoken by God at all Psalm 45:1-7 (King James Version) Psalm 45 1My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer. 2Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever. 3Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty. Paul simply misquoted the verse and this But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:7-9     is one of the main verses that Christians use to say that Jesus is God, isn't that a false image? Paul does it again going directly against what God says: Jeremiah 9:24 (New King James Version) 24 But let him who glories glory in this,      That he understands and knows Me,      That I am the LORD, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth.      For in these I delight,” says the LORD. but Paul says: 1 Corinthians 1:31 (King James Version) 31That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. is that what Jereniah 9:24 says? but Paul says instead he glories or boasts the cross Galatians 6:14 (New King James Version) 14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom[a] the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. He gave importance to “the cross” over God Luke 16:15 (King James Version) 15And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. ready for another corruption Psalm 14 1The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. paul says Romans 3:10 (King James Version) 10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: The first verse in psalm 14:1 is clearly talking about atheists or nonbelievers but Paul conveniently leaves out the context to mislead that the scripture calls everyone unrighteous. Romans 2:16 (King James Version) 16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Romans 3:7 (King James Version) 7For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? The Prophet Daniel says: Daniel 8:25 (New King James Version) 25 “ Through his cunning      He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule;[a]      And he shall exalt himself in his heart.      He shall destroy many in their prosperity.      He shall even rise against the Prince of princes;      But he shall be broken without human means.[ Paul confesses 2 Corinthians 12:16 (New King James Version) 16 But be that as it may, I did not burden you. Nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you by cunning! The flesh and blood of Jesus 1 John 4:3 3 and every spirit that does not confess that[a] Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. But Paul says: Philippians 2:7 (New King James Version) 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. Romans 8:3 (New King James Version) 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, Did Jesus really have “sinful”flesh? And how did Paul say Jesus came to him? Acts 22:9 (New King James Version) 9 “And those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid,[a] but they did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to me. No flesh and bones? Luke 24:39 (New King James Version) 39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.” The angels told the disciples of Jesus how they saw him go was how he would return and he left with flesh and bones Besides Jesus had warned you of false prophets before hand saying: Matthew 24:23-25 (King James Version) 23Then if any man shall say unto you, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before. If you want to debate this issue lets debate it. I'm giving you all 100% Christian proof.

i miised yuo intial post. what is your debate about? what are you saying. thanks

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