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Hi,
From wikipedia.
Oneness“Oneness in Christian theology is an attribute of the Christian deity put forward in contradistinction to trinitarianism. Oneness of God means that Father, Son and Holy Spirit, while all fully divine (in contrast with the lesser status of Son and Spirit associated with some beliefs), are not separate persons but expressions of the one God (alpha omega =being the first and last). Oneness Pentecostalism is a specific sect of Pentecostalism proclaiming the oneness of God. There are others (not Pentecostals) who believe in the oneness of God: see also Unitarianism, Sabellianism, and Nontrinitarianism”
Modalism is another term for this lie.
I'm quite aware of what oneness teach…and that doctrine is better referred to as Apostolic.
I'm also quite aware of what Trinity teach.
At this point I'm not entirely sure either one of these doctrines are 100% correct.
Yes…I believe both of them do have some of the truth. As far as either one of them having the 100% truth…not sure about that. In fact its most probable that they don't.
You see Religions have a foundation as a doctrine. Doctrines are base beliefs or by-laws that a religions believes.
Everyone should believe in the same one, as the bible teaches.
But everyone is not, in fact the desired effect that GOD would have man doing is quite different then what they are doing.
They are all forming different doctrines and argueeing back and forth with each other about why they think they are right.Now…tell me brother, where is the love and meekness in that?
If you believe in our Lord Jesus Christ then you would know that he taught us to love one another unconditionally regardless of what the circumstances are ….just as he loves us. So…if you like purple and I like green I should love you just the same.
If you read the same bible that I do then it also teaches you that the Meek shall inherit the earth. What meekness is involved in the way people argue with one another in this fashion? Have you seen a Trinity and a Oneness go at it lately?
neither one of them have any spirit of meekness after about 15 minutes of talking.
Think on these things, then forgive me if I do not believe either one of them are messengers from GOD.
This is most probably the very reason we were instructed to not act like this.
Yes…I think I should go to church somewhere. I feel in my heart that I should. I've been to different churches around near by and most of them are dead. There is little to no move of the spirit of GOD in their church. In this Apostolic church at least I feel the spirit of GOD in their church. Yes, there are things that I do not agree with, people that make me uncomfortable, and such. But the bible which is the very word of GOD did not say that this was going to be easy, that every thing was going to be peachy, In fact Jesus even said…John 15:18 (King James Version)
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
Any one can quote scripture. Even Satan can quote scripture.
Matthew 4:6
And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.Its one thing to go throwing scriptures around, and another thing to have thy foot shod with the preparation of the gospel.
So, I have my belief and I go to the church I go to, and I pray and that is the way it is.
May GOD greatly bless your lives and your families lives.Hi Samuel,
I understand your human need for fellowship.
You are now aware already, by the Spirit, of things that make you uncomfortable.
You are facing the meaning of serving two masters and I pray you will be strong enough to serve your true Master.
Fellowship with the Father and the son is the ultimate fellowship.
God will add everything else you need.You are right about some things.
I seem to be trying to overlook the uncomfortable things that I am aware of by the spirit.
I just want to do whats right. I'm tired of being attacked by these spirits.
Things have since been getting worse and worse for me going to this church. I'm not sure if its just Satan trying to keep me from the church or if I'm being showed some things.
We are talking about a church that “Bans” people from coming back to it. In my mind that can't be right. In my soul even.
I make alot of mistakes, I am far from being perfect. And, I feel that if I keep going there I'll be no better off. I think its really only a matter of time before they ask me not to come back.
I just don't get it. I've seen the spirit of GOD move just as much in churches with a trinity as I have with a church with a oneness belief. How can they be at each others throat accusing each other of being wrong and going to hell?
How can they be this way toward each other? Why do they have to go to such extents to slander each other? Why must this pride and self-righteousness take precedence over what the main goal is? I know that I have a bad attitude on somethings as well, but we must all have a spirit of meekness yes?
Kicking someone out of a church for cutting their hair or wearing pants or even cussing is in my mind the wrong thing to do. These are the ones that need help the most, is it not? After all, we are supposed to forgive our brothers and sisters 70 times 7.
Matthew 18:21
Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”Matthew 18:22
Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.Luke 17:4
“And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, 'I repent,' you shall forgive him.”…And of course turn the other check.
Matthew 5:39
“But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.Now of course we all have trouble with these things at times I would imagine….I know that I do, But I usually get a strong convection in my heart when I do these things. And, I don't feel better till I apologize and forgive and ask for forgiveness.
Do these people not feel the same way? Do they not get the same convections as I? What then of the love that Jesus taught us to have for one another? It is really starting to pain my soul, spirit, and heart. Every time I go to pray my soul just wants to cry out because of these things. We must learn to love one another. If it kills us.
It is better to be dead with love in your heart than dead with hate in your heart.
There was nothing that says that we are supposed to be able to understand everything about GOD…at least not at this time maybe even never. However, we are instructed to bring the gospel that was taught by Jesus Christ to the whole world. And the main focus of Jesus' teachings was to love one another and forgive one another and show every one we can to the way the truth and the light….our Lord Jesus Christ.
Why then do we so simply and easily forget these simple tasks that were given to us?
I fear that its not about what we all tend to think its about 90% of the time. We put ourselves in the way of the work that GOD wants us to do way to much.
Its about love. And to turn a brother or sister away ….is not that love. We are wrong to do this, even myself included.We must submit ourselves daily. If Jesus loved us enough to die a horrible death that he did not even deserve, so that we might all be saved from that same death…he died so that we might live. And all we can do is argue with one another and turn each other away from each other? Thats not a very good thanks of that love that was shown to us is it?
We really need to quit acting like ostriches and get our heads out of the ground, so that we might truly see the light.
Hi Samuel,
It all comes back to what Jesus said
“Seek ye first the kingdom of God and everything else will be added to you..”Instead men first seek knowledge, understanding, power, fellowship etc..
Quote (Samuel @ Mar. 09 2008,06:58) You are right about some things. I seem to be trying to overlook the uncomfortable things that I am aware of by the spirit.
I just want to do whats right. I'm tired of being attacked by these spirits.
Things have since been getting worse and worse for me going to this church. I'm not sure if its just Satan trying to keep me from the church or if I'm being showed some things.
We are talking about a church that “Bans” people from coming back to it. In my mind that can't be right. In my soul even.
I make alot of mistakes, I am far from being perfect. And, I feel that if I keep going there I'll be no better off. I think its really only a matter of time before they ask me not to come back.
I just don't get it. I've seen the spirit of GOD move just as much in churches with a trinity as I have with a church with a oneness belief. How can they be at each others throat accusing each other of being wrong and going to hell?
How can they be this way toward each other? Why do they have to go to such extents to slander each other? Why must this pride and self-righteousness take precedence over what the main goal is? I know that I have a bad attitude on somethings as well, but we must all have a spirit of meekness yes?
Kicking someone out of a church for cutting their hair or wearing pants or even cussing is in my mind the wrong thing to do. These are the ones that need help the most, is it not? After all, we are supposed to forgive our brothers and sisters 70 times 7.
Matthew 18:21
Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”Matthew 18:22
Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.Luke 17:4
“And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, 'I repent,' you shall forgive him.”…And of course turn the other check.
Matthew 5:39
“But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.Now of course we all have trouble with these things at times I would imagine….I know that I do, But I usually get a strong convection in my heart when I do these things. And, I don't feel better till I apologize and forgive and ask for forgiveness.
Do these people not feel the same way? Do they not get the same convections as I? What then of the love that Jesus taught us to have for one another? It is really starting to pain my soul, spirit, and heart. Every time I go to pray my soul just wants to cry out because of these things. We must learn to love one another. If it kills us.
It is better to be dead with love in your heart than dead with hate in your heart.
There was nothing that says that we are supposed to be able to understand everything about GOD…at least not at this time maybe even never. However, we are instructed to bring the gospel that was taught by Jesus Christ to the whole world. And the main focus of Jesus' teachings was to love one another and forgive one another and show every one we can to the way the truth and the light….our Lord Jesus Christ.
Why then do we so simply and easily forget these simple tasks that were given to us?
I fear that its not about what we all tend to think its about 90% of the time. We put ourselves in the way of the work that GOD wants us to do way to much.
Its about love. And to turn a brother or sister away ….is not that love. We are wrong to do this, even myself included.We must submit ourselves daily. If Jesus loved us enough to die a horrible death that he did not even deserve, so that we might all be saved from that same death…he died so that we might live. And all we can do is argue with one another and turn each other away from each other? Thats not a very good thanks of that love that was shown to us is it?
We really need to quit acting like ostriches and get our heads out of the ground, so that we might truly see the light.
Hi Samuel:My advice to you is to go to the Pastor of that church and share your concerns that you have shared with us here even if he asks you not to come back to the church again. I know that you did not ask me for advice, but I give it as a brother in Christ. Whether or not you take it or not is up to you. If you believe that this what God would have you to do, then I would say do it, otherwise do not.
Obviously, based on what you have shared with us here, what they are doing is not right. I believe that you have the responsibility of letting them know this. Of course, if you decide that you are going to them, go to God first in prayer for guidance.
Quote Galatians 6
1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. 2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. 3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. 4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. 5 For every man shall bear his own burden. 6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things. 7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. 10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
Quote John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. 3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me. God Bless
I just feel like if I keep going that that spirit is going to get off on me.
I already feel like I'm trying to point out more things in someone than I should. And yet I have my own flaws to be concerned about.
I like to go there to worship and fellowship. But I feel that its getting to the point where I might have to find somewhere else to go.
Quote (Samuel @ Mar. 10 2008,09:20) I just feel like if I keep going that that spirit is going to get off on me. I already feel like I'm trying to point out more things in someone than I should. And yet I have my own flaws to be concerned about.
I like to go there to worship and fellowship. But I feel that its getting to the point where I might have to find somewhere else to go.
Hi Samuel:Of course, you will have to do what you believe that God is leading you to do.
But just because you may have your own flaws doesn't mean that you cannot approach someone telling them you have a different understanding on something that they are teaching. You are not saying that they are wrong and that you are right, necessarily, but only that you have a different understanding.
If you approach someone telling them that they are wrong, they are going to resist what you are trying to tell them anyway, but if you go with the attitude that you may be wrong, and it is possible that you may be wrong on some of your understanding, they will more than likely at least listen to what you are saying. We should always allow for the possibility that we are the ones who may be wrong.
My concern is their salvation if they have gone astray and are teaching something that is contrary to God's Word.
One more thought that I have regarding this. You should not feel that you are the one correcting them. Sheep do not correct Pastors. The following scripture states that the Word of God does the correcting:
Quote 2Ti 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:I love you brother Samuel and desire the very best that God has to offer.
God Bless
I really thank you brother for your advice.
I must admit that I get the feeling that I have failed GOD on some things here lately.
I know that I'm not sent to Convert a whole Apostolic church from the belief they have …I'd most likely have better luck tearing down the Great Wall of China.
But your right, I should talk to some…I try to sometimes…but it usually ends up bad.
I'm not really sure any more really.
I just feel like for some reason I've failed my mission, what ever it might have been.Every time I get in to a discussion with people about things. Someone always points out something or brings up something that I'm not familiar with or that I've done, Or might be doing.
It seems as if I'm chasing my tail, and or second guessing even my self on things.
I really and truly just want to do what right.
Hi Samuel,
If you have obeyed the command to seek first the kingdom and been reborn of water and the Spirit then you are now a son of God. It is wonderful that you are sensitive to the words of others, as the meek are, but do not let them dominate you or steal your faith.1Peter 1
2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Quote (Samuel @ Mar. 10 2008,10:42) I really thank you brother for your advice. I must admit that I get the feeling that I have failed GOD on some things here lately.
I know that I'm not sent to Convert a whole Apostolic church from the belief they have …I'd most likely have better luck tearing down the Great Wall of China.
But your right, I should talk to some…I try to sometimes…but it usually ends up bad.
I'm not really sure any more really.
I just feel like for some reason I've failed my mission, what ever it might have been.Every time I get in to a discussion with people about things. Someone always points out something or brings up something that I'm not familiar with or that I've done, Or might be doing.
It seems as if I'm chasing my tail, and or second guessing even my self on things.
I really and truly just want to do what right.
Hi Samuel:Our commission from our Lord is that we should go into all of the world sharing the gospel and making the nations disciples of our Lord Jesus.
Not all of us have the same talents, but all of us, using whatever talents that we have toward the ultimate goal and that is the salvation of God's people from the consequence of sin.
We may make many mistakes along the way, and goodness knows that I have not only made mistakes, but I mean some foolish mistakes, but that does not mean that we have failed in our mission. His grace is sufficient.
As you say, you only want to do what is right, and I can see that you do.
Just a few of scriptures that might help:
Quote Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Quote Ps 119:105
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.Quote Ps 119:11
Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.Quote 2Ti 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.God Bless
I wish I could go to a church where no one talked about anyone.
…
I know that one day I will find that perfect church.
…
Yes, when we all get to heaven, what a day of rejoicing that will be?
We will all be part of the perfect church. No sorrow, no pain, no hatefulness, no pride, just us and our Lord Jesus Christ, and all praise will go to GOD the Father.
Obviously, I'm not as knowledgeable about these doctrines as every one else seems to be.
But I'm not ignorant…
Weather we go to heaven or we inherit the earth….or whatever whoever believes.
The fact still remains.
What ever the life GOD has in store for us is obviously going to be way better than that of which we are living now.
A page on Oneness doctrine:
Hi Samuel,
Here is a great site to look at the different views of the Godhead. It covers Modelism(Oneness Doctrine ), Arianism( Jehovah Witness),Trinity, and the Nicene Trinity(Catholic Trinity)http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-start.htm. I am a currently a Oneness Pentecostal and if you have any questions, I will try to answer, if possible. I donot know everything, and pal, I am learning just as much as you are. Continue to trust in the Lord with all your heart, and donot lean on your own understanding. Acknowledge him all your ways, and he will direct your path.
How many people start with a doctrine and then see if it fits with the bible?
How many are taught a doctrine before reading the bible?
How many read the bible before being indoctrinated and then come up with the Trinity or Oneness doctrines?If you found Christ while in solitary confinement for 5 years and you had never read the bible and the only thing in your cell was a bible, after you read it, would you believe in the Trinity or Oneness doctrines?
Now for another question:
Q: How do you get vinegar from a sponge or cloth?
A: You can't unless the sponge or cloth was fist soaked in vinegar.So when your mind has been soaked with the Trinity or Oneness doctrines, then you can easily wring out the Trinity or Oneness doctrine and use scripture to do it.
But how many people do you know that are willing to be so pure, that they are willing to reject what man says and read scripture and let scripture speak?
Not many I think.
T8- If I found Christ while in solitary confinement for 5 years and I'd never read the Bible and the only thing in my cell was a bible, after I read it, would I believe in the Trinity or Oneness doctrines? No!
What I would know is that Jesus died for my sin and that he is the Son of God. I would also learn that he is also God because scriptures declare it throughout the Bible.
gsilva72…….> The word God does no imply deity it implies (POWERS) or domains of authority, thats why human or angles can have the name God applied to them also. While a deity can posses powers and be called God also, and Jesus even said that, saying ” for THOU art the ONLY TRUE GOD. Jesus was showing us that there is only one true Deity, and that is the LORD GOD , which is interpreted as (HE EXIST)(WITH POWERS). The Almighty, The Father is the only Deity in existence, because everything came forth from Him that exists to day.
If you get time look up the (the Issac Newton Project) on the wed and see what He said about the word God. Newton had a brilliant mind and Einstein said he was most likely the most intelligent man who ever lived. He completely disagreed with the Trinity Doctrine.
peace to you and yours………….gene
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