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This thread is only for Keith and Mike. Please don't post here.
5 For even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
Keith, does Paul list Jesus Christ, or any combination of Jesus Christ and others, as our “one God” in this scripture?
mike
Mike
YES!!! Both the Father and Jesus are mentioned in the verse as our “One God and One Lord”!
Prove that it is not so.
WJ
Well, the words say “one God, the Father”. Then they go on to tell how all things came FROM Him, right?
Then Paul list another, as confirmed by his use of the word “AND”. And all things are not said to be FROM this other one, but THROUGH him.
This one THROUGH whom all things came is obviously not the Father FROM whom all things came, right? Can we agree on this much?
mike
Mike
Whatever you think you are doing is immoral and IMO is nothing but gangster mentality.
You try and force others to agree with you and when they don't then they are lying or misleading or dishonest.
To show your hypocrosy is that when I point out to you that scholars say Jesus is God or the word God (theos) definition means the Father, Son and Holy Ghost then you can say that is foolish but if I disagree with a couple of your sources and give you evidence that other scholars could not possibly agree then I am dishonest.
Get real Mike. Look at your poll, 62% say I was honest.
You cannot prove Paul is not including Jesus in 1 Cor 8:6 as the one God since it is Paul that actually said satan is the god of this world then he must have believed Jesus is God and proof is in the scriptures like Heb 1:3 – Heb 1:10 – Titus 2:13, 14 – Phil 2:4-6. And we know the original didn't have caps.
The problem you have MIke is he says in the same breath we also have “One Lord” and that is Jesus. So if Jesus and the Father is that “One Lord” then they are that “One God” and that is the way I believe Paul saw thier relationship.
So until you can prove to me that Jesus is Lord and the Father is not then how can you prove that the Father is God and Jesus is not especially since Jesus is called God in many places including Thomas calling Jesus his Lord and God.
Once again the verse does not prove your assumption.
Your doctrine is from the pit of hell because it undermines who and what Jesus is by making him less than the Fathers very own being and the scriptures tell us he is equal.
WJ
Hi Keith,
I've answered your first post via pm, so as not to diffuse the point of this thread. To your second point I say, don't work too hard. In other words, don't bother listing a million scriptures to flood the thread as you so often do. I will just ignore them and keep going back to the bolded question from my second post until you address that question DIRECTLY. Understood?
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 05 2011,18:03) Hi Keith, I've answered your first post via pm, so as not to diffuse the point of this thread. To your second point I say, don't work too hard. In other words, don't bother listing a million scriptures to flood the thread as you so often do. I will just ignore them and keep going back to the bolded question from my second post until you address that question DIRECTLY. Understood?
mike
No MikeYou have repeatedly called me a liar and dishonest, and you are not getting away with this and as moderator you especially shouldn't get away with it.
You will be exposed for what you are and what you said.
WJ
Well, the words say “one God, the Father”. Then they go on to tell how all things came FROM Him, right?
Then Paul list another, as confirmed by his use of the word “AND”. And all things are not said to be FROM this other one, but THROUGH him.
This one THROUGH whom all things came is obviously not the Father FROM whom all things came, right? Can we agree on this much?
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 06 2011,23:06) Well, the words say “one God, the Father”. Then they go on to tell how all things came FROM Him, right? Then Paul list another, as confirmed by his use of the word “AND”. And all things are not said to be FROM this other one, but THROUGH him.
This one THROUGH whom all things came is obviously not the Father FROM whom all things came, right? Can we agree on this much?
mike
MikeOnce again you are building a straw man. Who is the following scripture speaking of…
For from him and through (dia) him and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen. Rom 11:36
Who is the one “For whom and through whom” is Paul speaking of, the Father or Jesus?
Look at the wording Paul uses and how similar it is to the wording Paul uses in describing Jesus here…
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through (dia) whom all things came and through (dia) whom we live. 1 Cor 8:6
You anti-Jesus is God crowd create these logical fallacies with the terms “all things come through” or “all things were created through” as if because something comes through something that it is not coming “FROM” the one it is coming through.
If a builder builds a house through a contractor you wouldn't say that the contractor didn't do the building would you?
I suppose you could say that the contractor built the house through his tools therefore the tools did not build anything.
Of course that would mean that to you Jesus is some sort of inanimate object like a funnel that did nothing in the creating of all things. Ha Ha!
Did the contractor “co-create” with the builder?
So the answer to your question is “YES” Jesus is the one that by (dia) or through (dia) all things come but once again according to Rom 1:36 Paul uses the same language for what could be said is the Father unless you want to say Rom 11:36 Is Jesus which would mean contextually he is God.
When your eyes are open to see that Jesus and the Father are almost always mentioned together having the same attributes and qualities then you will see that Jesus is “True God” with the Father.
1 Cor 8:6 is not an anti-Jesus is God proof text but in fact Paul’s wording favors Jesus being “One God” with the Father.
Is the Father the “only god” spoken of in 1 Cor 8:6?
Scripturally is Jesus the “only lord” spoken of in 1 Cor 8:6?
Until you can prove that the Father is not still Lord then you cannot say Jesus is not God using this text.
Remember Mike you said…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 23 2011,20:38)
Jack, I have never:
2. Tried to be deceptive
3. Failed to answer a direct question that was related to the topic at hand
Let’s see if you are a man of your own words and answer the questions.WJ
Mike
I noticed you didn't come over here like you said yesterday or if you did you didn't post. You said…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 12 2011,23:19) I'm heading over to the “question for Keith” thread now to see how you're doing with honest answers over there. I hope I won't be needing another poll………..time will tell.
Just a friendly reminder!WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 12 2011,14:09)
So the answer to your question is “YES” Jesus is the one that by (dia) or through (dia) all things come
Very good, Keith. So all things are FROM One in that scripture, and that ONE is our “one God, the Father”. And all things are THROUGH another in that scripture, and that OTHER is our “one Lord, Jesus Christ”. So there are TWO mentioned in that scripture, but only ONE OF THEM is said by Paul to be our “one God”. Is this correct? YES or NO?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 12 2011,14:09)
MikeOnce again you are building a straw man. Who is the following scripture speaking of…
For from him and through (dia) him and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen. Rom 11:36
The whole chapter of Romans 11 is about God. His Son and Servant is not mentioned in this chapter. But look at your own words in the first quote above: The word “dia” can also mean “by”, as confirmed by many Trinitarian translations of Colossians 1:16, right? It can also mean “by means of” and “on account of”, etc. So Romans 11:36 can be saying, “from Him and by Him”, or “from Him and by means of Him” or “from Him and on account of Him”, right?The one thing we do know is that Jesus isn't mentioned in Romans 11:36, so for you to try and use that scripture as support of your whacked out theory that Paul was assuming we'd all know from his words in 8:6 that Jesus and the Father were each both God and Lord, is ridiculous.
Do you really want to do this? Because unlike you, I have many, many written words of Paul that make very clear that he understood that Jesus is not the God he is the Son of, including this one, also from Romans:
Romans 1:8
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you……..
Do you think that Paul thanked his God through his God? How much sense does that make?
Now remember, this is only one the of many, many times Paul distinguished Jesus as someone other than God. Do you think your Rom 11:36 scripture, with its use of only one of the many things “dia” can mean, will be enough to stand up to the many scriptures I'm prepared to offer in support of my belief that Paul obviously knows that Jesus is not the God he is the Son of?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 12 2011,14:09)
Is the Father the “only god” spoken of in 1 Cor 8:6?
The Father is the only one called by the title “theos” in 8:6. But the sentence starts in 8:5, and mentions many gods. Plus, we know from other scriptures that Jesus is also a theos, so in actuality, two gods are mentioned in 8:6, but only one of them is referred to as our “one God”.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 12 2011,14:09)
Scripturally is Jesus the “only lord” spoken of in 1 Cor 8:6?
Jesus is the only one called by the title “kurios” in 8:6. But the sentence starts in 8:5, and mentions many lords. Plus, we know from other scriptures that the Father is also our Lord, so in actuality, two lords are mentioned in 8:6, but only one of them is referred to as our “one Lord”.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 12 2011,14:09)
Until you can prove that the Father is not still Lord then you cannot say Jesus is not God using this text.
Why would I have to prove that? The idea that Paul is conveying is not that there's literally only one theos and one kurios in existence. That would be silly because his sentence begins with the mention of “many gods and many lords”.Keith, think about this: If your whacked out theory was correct, then even IF the trinity were true, Paul would STILL be saying that the Father is the ONLY member of the Godhead who is “God”, and Jesus is the ONLY member of the Godhead who is “Lord”. So then YOU would have to prove that the Father member of the Godhead “is not still Lord” in order for your claim to be valid.
You should really think your thoughts through before putting them in black and white for all to see. Because your theory says that only the Jesus member of the Godhead is Lord, so not the Father. And only the Father member of the Godhead is God, so not Jesus. You can't just “lump them in together” like you want to. Because even you think there are three separate PERSONS in God, right? So if only ONE of those persons is LITERALLY our ONLY Lord, then the other two persons cannot be our Lord at all, can they?
Please just address the big, bolded point above.
mike
Hi Keith,
Just one more thought: If The Father/Jesus have always LITERALLY been our ONE God/Lord, then why was anyone else ever called god or lord by a God-fearing person in the Bible?
Face it dude, it's not meant to be taken as LITERALLY THE ONLY ONE IN EXISTENCE, PERIOD.
But I'll wait for your response.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2011,19:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 12 2011,14:09)
So the answer to your question is “YES” Jesus is the one that by (dia) or through (dia) all things come
Very good, Keith. So all things are FROM One in that scripture, and that ONE is our “one God, the Father”. And all things are THROUGH another in that scripture, and that OTHER is our “one Lord, Jesus Christ”. So there are TWO mentioned in that scripture, but only ONE OF THEM is said by Paul to be our “one God”. Is this correct? YES or NO?
Hi MikeIf I answer the question “Yes” then that would mean that the Father is the “Only god” spoken of in 1 Cor 8:6, right? This is a good example of a loaded question.
Even if you don't agree with this with your own words you have said…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 06 2011,17:00) And I don't know of a scripture that calls Jesus “the true god” (changed to [a] true god), but I agree that he is. AND…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 05 2011,18:35) Jesus is the god, or “powerful ruler” of all in heaven right now, and of the believer's on earth. AND…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2011,14:05) Jesus is one who has been called by the title “god”, so he is also “A god”. He has not specifically been called “THE god” of anything in particular, but knowing that “god” only means “ruler”, I can honestly say that he is “my god“.
OOPS, there it is to jump up and bite you in the rump again.
Remember there are no caps in the Greek. So you tell me if Paul is saying the Father is god exclusive to the Son being god? Your own words tell us the answer to your question is “NO”.
There was a young lad here named Dennison that not to long ago said something like “you had lost the debate the minute you started claiming there are more than “one true god” in scriptures, remember?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2011,19:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 12 2011,14:09)
MikeOnce again you are building a straw man. Who is the following scripture speaking of…
For from him and through (dia) him and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen. Rom 11:36
The whole chapter of Romans 11 is about God. His Son and Servant is not mentioned in this chapter. But look at your own words in the first quote above: The word “dia” can also mean “by”, as confirmed by many Trinitarian translations of Colossians 1:16, right? It can also mean “by means of” and “on account of”, etc. So Romans 11:36 can be saying, “from Him and by Him”, or “from Him and by means of Him” or “from Him and on account of Him”, right?
OK, and the same word is used in refering to Jesus right? The point is that the word “dia” can mean by or through, but what you fail to understand is that if something comes through someone then at that point it is by and from the one it comes through. Remember the Builder and the Contractor was co-laborers. The contractor was not some inanimate object that the builder built his house through was he? And who gets the credit?… both the Builder and the Contractor who is also the Builder for they are co-creators.Let me give you some examples of what I am speaking of…
Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, “and [kia]” from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. 2 John 1:3
Notice the use of the word “from”? Grace, mercy and peace come “from” the Father “AND” Jesus.
The Greek word is “para” which means; from, of at, by, besides, near.
So if you compare this to Paul’s statements in 1 Cor 8:6 and Romans 11:36 then you will see that Paul is saying all things come through and from the Father and Jesus who are God.
Check out the many times Paul says this without using the word (dia, by or through)…
Rom 1:7 – Rom 16:20 – 1 Cor 1:3 – 2 Cor 1:2 – Gal 1:3 – Eph 1:2 – Phil 1:2 – Col 1:2 – 1 Thess 1:1 – 2 Thess 1:2 – 1 Tim 1:2 – 2 Tim 1:2 – Titus 1:4 – Phm 1:3
Instead he joins the two with the conjunction “kai” (and).
This is proof that Jesus is not merely some inanimate object that the Father works through as some empty vessel but in fact proves that whatever comes from the Father also comes from Jesus.
That is why Jesus doesn’t say the Father is the “Way the Truth and the Life” because Jesus is the source of truth and our life and everything that we receive from God comes from Jesus for all things are in his hands.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2011,19:18)
The one thing we do know is that Jesus isn't mentioned in Romans 11:36, so for you to try and use that scripture as support of your whacked out theory that Paul was assuming we'd all know from his words in 8:6 that Jesus and the Father were each both God and Lord, is ridiculous.
How so Mike? I showed you a scripture that says that all things are from and through the Father showing that your argument about the words through is a straw man. If you look at the language of 1 Cor 8:6 in referring to Jesus it is similar to the language in Rom 11:36.Let me give you an example of how the word “dia” does not mean what you think it means.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but ”IF YE **THROUGH (dia)** THE SPIRIT” do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Rom 8:13
Notice the language, WE are to mortify the deeds of the body “through or by” (dia) the Spirit. Does this mean we are greater than the Holy Spirit because it is through the Holy Spirit that we mortify the deeds of the flesh?
Your understanding in relation to the Father doing something through (dia) Jesus means that Jesus is inferior or does nothing, when in reality in this verse the word
“dia” (through or by) means the Holy Spirit does the work as we yield our members. So in essence we are working together with the Holy Spirit but it is “through or by” the Holy Spirit that we mortify the deeds of the flesh. In other words just because we do this through the Holy Spirit does not mean the Holy Spirit is an inanimate object that does nothing or has no substance of his own. You do get this don’t you Mike? The same goes for the relationship of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, they are in perfect harmony and work as one.WJ
Hi Mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2011,19:18) Do you really want to do this? Because unlike you, I have many, many written words of Paul that make very clear that he understood that Jesus is not the God he is the Son of, including this one, also from Romans:
Same ole tired straw man argument “Jesus is not the God he is the son of”. So what?“Mike is not the human he is the son of!” Sounds logical to me! Now if you said “Jesus is not the Father he is the son of”, then you would also be correct and your argument would be with Dennison and not me. But remember God is a title. You should know this Mike especially since you are always claiming there is more than one god in the scriptures and your use of the word “God” (theos) in your statement is misleading because you also say Jesus is “your god”.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2011,19:18) Romans 1:8
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you……..
Do you think that Paul thanked his God through his God? How much sense does that make?
Well Paul surely wasn’t saying “through” Jesus means he is some inanimate object that gets no thanks but rather we just sort of pass him by as we approach the Father, does it? That is why our fellowship is with the Father and the Son and yes even the Holy Spirit.But let’s look at your question and see how you would answer it…
This is your question…”Do you think that Paul thanked his God through his God?”
Well according to your own words the answer would be “yes” Paul did thank his god through his god for you said with your own words…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 06 2011,17:00) And I don't know of a scripture that calls Jesus “the true god” (changed to [a] true god), but I agree that he is.
AND…Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 05 2011,18:35) Jesus is the god, or “powerful ruler” of all in heaven right now, and of the believer's on earth.
Am I right Mike?Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2011,19:18) Now remember, this is only one the of many, many times Paul distinguished Jesus as someone other than God. Do you think your Rom 11:36 scripture, with its use of only one of the many things “dia” can mean, will be enough to stand up to the many scriptures I'm prepared to offer in support of my belief that Paul obviously knows that Jesus is not the God he is the Son of?
It is you that is pitting scripture against scripture, not me. I am showing you how the scriptures compare and the similarities in the grammar of certain verses that clearly show the Father and Jesus are equally “god”.Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2011,19:18)
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 12 2011,14:09)
Is the Father the “only god” spoken of in 1 Cor 8:6?
The Father is the only one called by the title “theos” in 8:6
But that is not the correct answer is it Mike?Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2011,19:18)
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 12 2011,14:09)
Scripturally is Jesus the “only lord” spoken of in 1 Cor 8:6?
Jesus is the only one called by the title “kurios” in 8:6
Once again that is not the answer to the question is it Mike?Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2011,19:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 12 2011,14:09)
Until you can prove that the Father is not still Lord then you cannot say Jesus is not God using this text.
Why would I have to prove that? The idea that Paul is conveying is not that there's literally only one theos and one kurios in existence. That would be silly because his sentence begins with the mention of “many gods and many lords”.
Yes many lords and gods of men but before that statement he clearly tells you…”….THERE IS NONE OTHER GOD BUT ONE.” Now that leaves you with a real conundrum because unless you believe Paul is saying the Father and Jesus are the “One God” and “One Lord” then you have a contradiction.
But we know that Paul also calls Jesus his God and Savour and that Jesus said he and the Father are one and that they would dwell in us.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2011,19:18) Keith, think about this: If your whacked out theory was correct, then even IF the trinity were true, Paul would STILL be saying that the Father is the ONLY member of the Godhead who is “God”, and Jesus is the ONLY member of the Godhead who is “Lord”. So then YOU would have to prove that the Father member of the Godhead “is not still Lord” in order for your claim to be valid.
NO! If Jesus is the One Lord and the Father is also Lord then that merely confir
ms that they are One as Jesus said. If the scriptures say the Father is one God and we know that Jesus is also God then that just confirms that they are one. Just as there is “one Body” but many members or as a husband and wife are “one flesh”, so the Father and Jesus are “One Spirit”, essence or whatever makes God, God. Is this too simple for you?It’s whacked out to say that Jesus is my god and yet say he is not really my god for there is only one true god!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2011,19:18) You should really think your thoughts through before putting them in black and white for all to see. Because your theory says that only the Jesus member of the Godhead is Lord, so not the Father. And only the Father member of the Godhead is God, so not Jesus.
What? That is your argument Mike. My argument is according to 1 Cor 8:4-6 the Father and Jesus are Lord and God for they are one. Have you answered my questions above correctly Mike?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 18 2011,15:22) Hi Mike If I answer the question “Yes” then that would mean that the Father is the “Only god” spoken of in 1 Cor 8:6, right?
Hi Keith,What I want to know is, out of the “many gods” Paul mentions in verse 5, which god in particular does he say is our “one God” in verse 6?
(I read the rest of your long posts. I saw where you were assuming I've misspoken in previous things I've posted. I stand by all of my quotes you listed – with the exception of the word “the” which I immediately corrected as a mistake, but you feel the need to keep posting anyway.
) And as far as your TWO questions to my ONE question, my words “two gods are mentioned in 8:6, but only one of them is referred to as our 'one God' ” and “two lords are mentioned in 8:6, but only one of them is referred to as our 'one Lord' ” should be your answer. But if those words aren't clear enough for you, then “NO”, the Father is not the only god mentioned in 8:6 and Jesus is not the only lord mentioned in 8:6. (You don't see it yet, but this will end up helping ME, not YOU.
)Please directly, promptly and honestly answer my bolded point above.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 18 2011,21:27) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 18 2011,15:22) Hi Mike If I answer the question “Yes” then that would mean that the Father is the “Only god” spoken of in 1 Cor 8:6, right?
Hi Keith,What I want to know is, out of the “many gods” Paul mentions in verse 5, which god in particular does he say is our “one God” in verse 6?
Hi MikeOnce again your question is loaded because you ask…
…which god in particular does he say is OUR “one God” in verse 6?
There are two problems I have with your question. First your assumption is Jesus is in the same category as the other gods, yet we know Jesus is in a class of his own. Second your question is inferring that Paul is saying the Father is our “god” to the exclusion of Jesus, when in fact he is not, any more than Paul is saying Jesus is Lord to the exclusion of the Father.
Your question is designed for you Mike who believes in many gods not for me because I believe the Father and Jesus are “One God” just as they are “One Lord” and none other.
That’s the way the verse reads to me and what I believe Paul is conveying because of the language of the verse and the fact that Jesus and the Father share “Divine” attributes that none other so-called gods share.
But now let me ask you the same question and see how your own words answer it. This again is your question…
What I want to know is, out of the “many gods” Paul mentions in verse 5, which god in particular does he say is OUR “one God” in verse 6?
According to the words “OUR One God” you yourself can’t give an honest answer to the question because once again here are your words…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 06 2011,17:00) And I don't know of a scripture that calls Jesus “the true god” (per Mike, changed to [a] true god), but I agree that he is.
AND…Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2011,14:05) Jesus is one who has been called by the title “god”, so he is also “A god”. He has not specifically been called “THE god” of anything in particular, but knowing that “god” only means “ruler”, I can honestly say that he is “my god“.
Notice Mike the my god statement?Mike if Jesus is also “your god” then why do you ask if the Father is “our one god” in verse 6 if you say Jesus is “your god” also?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 18 2011,21:27) (I read the rest of your long posts. I saw where you were assuming I've misspoken in previous things I've posted. I stand by all of my quotes you listed – with the exception of the word “the” which I immediately corrected as a mistake, but you feel the need to keep posting anyway. )
What is the difference? You call him “my god” using the definite article “my” don’t you? Or are you going to regroup and take back some of your moves like in a chess game where once you realize you made a couple of wrong moves then you take them back and try again? And I don't think this is an oversight. Is Jesus no longer “your god” Mike?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 18 2011,21:27) And as far as your TWO questions to my ONE question, my words “two gods are mentioned in 8:6, but only one of them is referred to as our 'one God' ” and “two lords are mentioned in 8:6, but only one of them is referred to as our 'one Lord' ” should be your answer.
Blah Blah Blah! There you go again making ridiculous and convoluted statements like…1 Cor 8:6 says “ONLY ONE” is referred to as “OUR GOD”, yet you say that there are 2 gods mentioned and the other god is Jesus which you also say is “your god”!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 18 2011,21:27) But if those words aren't clear enough for you, then “NO”, the Father is not the only god mentioned in 8:6 and Jesus is not the only lord mentioned in 8:6.
Then you have basically answered with two different answers? How confusing!So why do you accuse me of saying Jesus also is God in the verse since the Father is also Lord when you yourself say Jesus is also god and the Father is also Lord?
They are “ontologically One” Mike, and that is the only Biblical concept that brings all scripture into harmony.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 18 2011,21:27) (You don't see it yet, but this will end up helping ME, not YOU. 
We can already see how your Polytheism is working for you!
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2011,22:07)
Face it dude, it's not meant to be taken as LITERALLY THE ONLY ONE IN EXISTENCE, PERIOD.
MikeI know you do not want to take the scriptures literally when it is not in your favor, but when you make statements like this it just shows the weakness in your manmade doctrine and theories.
So you are saying…
The Father is not literally the “Only One True God” found in the scriptures!
Isn't that right?
Face it dude, there is literally “Only One True God” in scriptures and not many “true gods” for as Paul says…
We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that “there is no God but one“.1 Cor 8:4
But for us there is “One God” and “One Lord”, that is the Father and Jesus for they are ONE!
The Bible is a Monotheistic book inspired by God and Jesus takes claim to its contents.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 19 2011,14:48) But now let me ask you the same question and see how your own words answer it. This again is your question… What I want to know is, out of the “many gods” Paul mentions in verse 5, which god in particular does he say is OUR “one God” in verse 6?
According to the words “OUR One God” you yourself can’t give an honest answer to the question because once again here are your words…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 08 2011,14:05) Jesus is one who has been called by the title “god”, so he is also “A god”. He has not specifically been called “THE god” of anything in particular, but knowing that “god” only means “ruler”, I can honestly say that he is “my god“. Notice Mike the my god statement?
Keith,I am well aware of the “my god” statement I made. I stand behind it and will defend it to the death.
Listen Keith, Paul mentions “many gods” in verse 5, and then mentions two gods in verse 6. I want to know: In 1 Corinthians 8:6, who exactly does Paul refer to using the words “one god”? He lists that one by name/title. Who is it Keith?
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 19 2011,15:03) The Bible is a Monotheistic book inspired by God
Keith,Although I've posted the definition of “polytheism” many times for you, you still don't accept what it really means.
“Polytheism” refers to WORSHIPPING more than one god. The BELIEF that there are more than one god is COMPLETELY scriptural, for God cannot possibly be the God of gods if there are no others. God cannot preside in the assembly of gods and pass judgement over the other gods in this assembly if there aren't any other gods.
Keith, please stay on the topic of this thread. We will be discussing “polytheism” shortly in the Freak Greek thread. But in this thread, I am awaiting an answer from you about 8:6. No more excuses and diversions, just answer the question, okay?
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 19 2011,22:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 19 2011,15:03) The Bible is a Monotheistic book inspired by God
Keith,Although I've posted the definition of “polytheism” many times for you, you still don't accept what it really means.
MikeWhy are you always reinventing words and definitions to fit your own theories?
This is what Polytheism means….
Macmillan Dictionary
THE BELIEF that there is MORE THAN ONE GODAmerican Heritage Dictionary of the English Language
The worship of OR BELIEF in more than one godMerriam-Webster's Online Dictionary
BELIEF IN or worship of MORE THAN ONE GODWordnik
1.The worship of OR BELIEF in more than one god.Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary
BELIEF IN MANY DIFFERENT GODSWiktionary
1.THE BELIEF OF THE EXISTENCE OF MANY GODS.Collins Pocket English Dictionary
BELIEF IN MORE THAN ONE GOD,Encarta® World English Dictionary
the worship of OR BELIEF IN MORE THAN ONE DEITY, especially several deitiesWebster's New World College Dictionary, 4th Ed
BELIEF IN or worship of many gods, or MORE THAN ONE GODThere are more if you need them but this should be enough to show you that not only is Polytheism the worship of other gods but also “THE BELIEF THAT MORE THAN ONE GOD EXIST. So who is not accepting the definition of the word Polytheism?
There is “Only One True God” in the scripture PERIOD!
WJ
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