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Since it has become clear that no one will carefully examine and discuss with me the first five lessons in the discussion “Seven Lessons for John 1:1c,” I am opening this discussion for some of the off-subject comments found there.
EdJ wrote
Was not Jesus quoting Psalm 82:6 for the express purpose of claiming he was THE “Son of God”
“Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? (John 10:34)
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world,
Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
(John 10:36)Why couldn’t I then say “according to my studies” we should add an apostrophe to Psalm 82:6
Turning gods into God’s because as THE Children of God we are God’s NOT gods.…………………………..
As I showed you earlier, Ed, the NT Greek word choice by John in John 10:34 simply does not allow for the translation of “God’s” or “of God”!
The word used in the Greek text is the plural noun “theoi” which can only mean “gods.” If the inspired writer had intended “god’s” or “of god,” he would have chosen the singular ‘possessive’ noun “theou” which means “of god.”
This holds true for the scripture quoted by Jesus: Ps. 82:6 in the Greek OT Septuagint. It also holds true for the ancient Hebrew of Ps. 82:6. The Hebrew there is simply the word which means “God” (not “of God”) or “gods” (‘elohim’). In context it must mean “you are gods” rather than “you are God.” But in any case there is no way that, either in John 10:34 or in Ps. 82:6, it can be honestly translated as “God’s” or “of God.”
Hi Tigger,
calling lessons an independent study, when (possibly) being influenced or motivated by a society such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses will put many off reading a long study.
this is from your blogspot:
A careful study of the Logos concept as used by John confirms the grammatical evidence (see the DEF, QUAL, and MARTIN studies) that John 1:1c is properly translated, “and the Word was a god” as found in the New World Translation of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Most trinitarian scholars will do their utmost to deny this conclusion (for obvious reasons), but it is inevitable by any honest standard of evidence, reason, and objectivity………………………………………..
NOTE: The information and conclusions in this paper are based solely on NON-Watchtower sources. To the best of my knowledge the Watchtower Society does not teach the above information concerning the source of the word Logos – see Insight, “Word.” I have simply used some of the best Trinitarian and “orthodox” authorities themselves as a basis for making these conclusions. If I am wrong, blame me and the sources I used, not the Watchtower Society. – RDB.
i believe it is reasonable to ask if you are or have been a Jehovah’s Witness.
Hi Tigger. You are a JW. I shouldn’t have to prove it.
Why do you follow the doctrines of men? There are many errors in the Watchtower teachings.
miia wrote:
“Hi Tigger,
“calling lessons an independent study, when (possibly) being influenced or motivated by a society such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses will put many off reading a long study.”
It seems that most anything will keep Trinitarians from reading even the short lesson A in the “Seven Studies.” Apparently most would rather read ONLY that which “tickles their ears.”
Whatever my denomination (if any) is it should not prevent anyone from reading my truly independent study. It is just a reason for obfuscation and subject change.
miia:
“Why do you follow the doctrines of men? There are many errors in the Watchtower teachings.”
I personally check out what to believe by studying the OT and NT texts. The real question is: Why do you follow the doctrines of men rather than following the example of the Bereans? – Acts 17:10, 11.
Does it matter whether tigger be a JW or not? to me it does not.He that receiveth Jesus Christ/Son of God receiveth God.Why would Jesus in St John’s gospel say “he that receives me,receives not me but the one who sent me”? except he be a divine being? a god or God?
Those who say he is not a God but treat him as such are just being silly.
Hi Tigger,
Are you suggesting that you are ‘a god’? . “Yes” or “No”?
My question is simple enough, please answer my question.
let your yes be yes and your no be no (ref. James 5:12)_______________
God bless
Ed JDoes it matter whether tigger be a JW or not?
Hi Andrew. Yes, I believe it does matter. If someone wants to lead lessons, we have a right to know who they may be working for. I know Tigger is a JW, because the same lessons (and more) are elsewhere. I asked if he was a JW and he would not answer. I think a JW posting lessons and expecting us to go over those lessons without admitted they are affiliated with the Watchtower Society somewhat deceitful, because the JWs teach serious, possibly fatal errors. Should we not try to bring them out of that, translations of John 1:1 aside?
He that receiveth Jesus Christ/Son of God receiveth God.Why would Jesus in St John’s gospel say “he that receives me,receives not me but the one who sent me”? except he be a divine being? a god or God? Those who say he is not a God but treat him as such are just being silly.
Don’t quite follow.
Can you say more?EdJ:
“Are you suggesting that you are ‘a god’? ‘Yes’ or ‘No’?
My question is simple enough, please answer my question.”Of course not.
What makes you think I have even implied such a thing. Certain ones such as God’s Kings, Magistrates, and even angels have been called gods in the scriptures. These are ones who were appointed by God to do God’s will. If you would just finally read Lesson B, it would be made clear to you. A majority of Trinitarian scholars agree as you would also find in B.
It seems that most anything will keep Trinitarians from reading even the short lesson A in the “Seven Studies.” Apparently most would rather read ONLY that which “tickles their ears.”
Hi Tigger.
Trinitarians?Hi Tigger,
What makes you think I have even implied such a thing.
Because you said:
In context it must mean “you are gods”
EdJ:
Are you suggesting that you are ‘a god’? . “Yes” or “No”?
My question is simple enough, please answer my question.”Of course not.
Are you suggesting the Pharisees are gods?
Hi Tigger,
What makes you think I have even implied such a thing.
Because you said:
In context it must mean “you are gods”
That is because it does say “ye are gods” and that was exactly the point Jesus was making, so no EDJ it cannot read “ye are God’s” because Jesus said:
John 10:35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came–and Scripture cannot be set aside–
If what you were saying was correct Jesus would not be able to then get out of the stoning by saying he was just calling himself the son of God
because if their scripture said “God’s” as in possession Jesus would not have said John 10:35
1 Corinthians 8:5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
New American Standard Bible
2 Corinthians 4:4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
That’s how the scriptures are, many sons and many gods this is why Jesus fought with the scribes because they change things around out of their places so even if you were right EDJ and it should have read “God’s” the scribes didn’t make it that way which is why Jesus is questioning what is written
Hi BD,
Do you feel Jesus is ‘a god’?
1 Corinthians 8:5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
New American Standard Bible
2 Corinthians 4:4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
That’s how the scriptures are, many sons and many gods this is why Jesus fought with the scribes because they change things around out of their places so even if you were right EDJ and it should have read “God’s” the scribes didn’t make it that way which is why Jesus is questioning what is written
Hi BD,
Is that a “Yes” answer?
– or –
was it meant as a “No” answer?
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