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Numbers 22:21-35(NIV) reads
Quote Balaam got up in the morning, saddled his donkey and went with the Moabite officials. But God was very angry when he went,and the angel of the LORD stood in the road to oppose him. Balaam was riding on his donkey, and his two servants were with him. When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with a drawn sword in his hand, it turned off the road into a field. Balaam beat it to get it back on the road.
Then the angel of the LORD stood in a narrow path through the vineyards, with walls on both sides. When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, it pressed close to the wall, crushing Balaam’s foot against it. So he beat the donkey again.
Then the angel of the LORD moved on ahead and stood in a narrow place where there was no room to turn, either to the right or to the left. When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, it lay down under Balaam, and he was angry and beat it with his staff. Then the LORD opened the donkey’s mouth, and it said to Balaam, “What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?”
Balaam answered the donkey, “You have made a fool of me! If only I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now.”
The donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?” “No,” he said.Then the LORD opened Balaam’s eyes, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with his sword drawn . So he bowed low and fell facedown.
The angel of the LORD asked him, “Why have you beaten your donkey these three times? I have come here to oppose you because your path is a reckless one before me. The donkey saw me and turned away from me these three times. If it had not turned away, I would certainly have killed you by now, but I would have spared it.”
Balaam said to the angel of the LORD, “I have sinned. I did not realize you were standing in the road to oppose me. Now if you are displeased, I will go back.”
The angel of the LORD said to Balaam, “Go with the men, but speak only what I tell you.” So Balaam went with Balak’s officials.
1)An angel can stand in a location and take up space, v.22.
2)A donkey sees the angel and later acts to avoid it three times and thus saved Balaam, v.23.
3)An angel holds a drawn sword in its hand, v.23.
4)Balaam finally saw the angel that was in his range of vision the whole time, v 31.What do these four points from this scripture tell us about the bodies of angels?
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 05 2011,01:14) Numbers 22:21-35(NIV) reads Quote Balaam got up in the morning, saddled his donkey and went with the Moabite officials. But God was very angry when he went,and the angel of the LORD stood in the road to oppose him. Balaam was riding on his donkey, and his two servants were with him. When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with a drawn sword in his hand, it turned off the road into a field. Balaam beat it to get it back on the road.
Then the angel of the LORD stood in a narrow path through the vineyards, with walls on both sides. When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, it pressed close to the wall, crushing Balaam’s foot against it. So he beat the donkey again.
Then the angel of the LORD moved on ahead and stood in a narrow place where there was no room to turn, either to the right or to the left. When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, it lay down under Balaam, and he was angry and beat it with his staff. Then the LORD opened the donkey’s mouth, and it said to Balaam, “What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?”
Balaam answered the donkey, “You have made a fool of me! If only I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now.”
The donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?” “No,” he said.Then the LORD opened Balaam’s eyes, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with his sword drawn . So he bowed low and fell facedown.
The angel of the LORD asked him, “Why have you beaten your donkey these three times? I have come here to oppose you because your path is a reckless one before me. The donkey saw me and turned away from me these three times. If it had not turned away, I would certainly have killed you by now, but I would have spared it.”
Balaam said to the angel of the LORD, “I have sinned. I did not realize you were standing in the road to oppose me. Now if you are displeased, I will go back.”
The angel of the LORD said to Balaam, “Go with the men, but speak only what I tell you.” So Balaam went with Balak’s officials.
1)An angel can stand in a location and take up space, v.22.
2)A donkey sees the angel and later acts to avoid it three times and thus saved Balaam, v.23.
3)An angel holds a drawn sword in its hand, v.23.
4)Balaam finally saw the angel that was in his range of vision the whole time, v 31.What do these four points from this scripture tell us about the bodies of angels?
kerwinthere is a other question you can ask, why would the angel haved killed Balaam and not is donkey
The angel of the LORD asked him, “Why have you beaten your donkey these three times? I have come here to oppose you because your path is a reckless one before me. The donkey saw me and turned away from me these three times. If it had not turned away, I would certainly have killed you by now, but I would have spared it.”Pierre
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 04 2011,18:14) Numbers 22:21-35(NIV) reads Quote Balaam got up in the morning, saddled his donkey and went with the Moabite officials. But God was very angry when he went,and the angel of the LORD stood in the road to oppose him. Balaam was riding on his donkey, and his two servants were with him. When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with a drawn sword in his hand, it turned off the road into a field. Balaam beat it to get it back on the road.
Then the angel of the LORD stood in a narrow path through the vineyards, with walls on both sides. When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, it pressed close to the wall, crushing Balaam’s foot against it. So he beat the donkey again.
Then the angel of the LORD moved on ahead and stood in a narrow place where there was no room to turn, either to the right or to the left. When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, it lay down under Balaam, and he was angry and beat it with his staff. Then the LORD opened the donkey’s mouth, and it said to Balaam, “What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?”
Balaam answered the donkey, “You have made a fool of me! If only I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now.”
The donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?” “No,” he said.Then the LORD opened Balaam’s eyes, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with his sword drawn . So he bowed low and fell facedown.
The angel of the LORD asked him, “Why have you beaten your donkey these three times? I have come here to oppose you because your path is a reckless one before me. The donkey saw me and turned away from me these three times. If it had not turned away, I would certainly have killed you by now, but I would have spared it.”
Balaam said to the angel of the LORD, “I have sinned. I did not realize you were standing in the road to oppose me. Now if you are displeased, I will go back.”
The angel of the LORD said to Balaam, “Go with the men, but speak only what I tell you.” So Balaam went with Balak’s officials.
1)An angel can stand in a location and take up space, v.22.
2)A donkey sees the angel and later acts to avoid it three times and thus saved Balaam, v.23.
3)An angel holds a drawn sword in its hand, v.23.
4)Balaam finally saw the angel that was in his range of vision the whole time, v 31.What do these four points from this scripture tell us about the bodies of angels?
How many threads of spirit bodies will you start?Georg
Kerwin is trying to believe in PHANTASMS and 'GHOSTS'…
He is incredibly naive and susceptible to his inane ideas of Spirits with bodies ('Ghosts') from reading about Saul and the Witch of Endor. It excites him to believe these things when EVERYONE ELSE knows it was bewitchment (ha ha – by a Witch!) that made Saul see and hear a demon Spirit brought into the physical world and given a whispy hazy body through the enchantment of the witch of Endor.
He needs room to exercise his young fresh mind before coming into the Adult world. Kerwin has already been set a task of desiring to achieve and attain Adulthood in his thought and mind – to wit (not to Witch!) attain a “Spiritual Mind”, not a “Spirit Mind”.
Quote (Istari @ Jan. 05 2011,01:08) Kerwin is trying to believe in PHANTASMS and 'GHOSTS'… He is incredibly naive and susceptible to his inane ideas of Spirits with bodies ('Ghosts') from reading about Saul and the Witch of Endor. It excites him to believe these things when EVERYONE ELSE knows it was bewitchment (ha ha – by a Witch!) that made Saul see and hear a demon Spirit brought into the physical world and given a whispy hazy body through the enchantment of the witch of Endor.
He needs room to exercise his young fresh mind before coming into the Adult world. Kerwin has already been set a task of desiring to achieve and attain Adulthood in his thought and mind – to wit (not to Witch!) attain a “Spiritual Mind”, not a “Spirit Mind”.
JA, I like your disguise.Gerorg
Pierre,
It is a good question that you propose but I do not see how the mystery of why the donkey’s life was to be spared has any bearing of this study to determine what the story of Balaam and his donkey tell us of the bodies of angels. I do not know the answer to your question though I could point out that only Balaam was accountable for his sin while both the donkey and the servants were under his orders. Still God has been known to strike down those associated with the wrongdoer even if they are innocent of the sin in order to show that sin itself is evil. For instance David’s first child with Beersheba paid the price for the sins committed by his parents.
Istari,
Beware of arrogance for I assure you that you are not everyone and your opinion is not the opinion of everyone.
You have yet to produce evidence that contradicts the claims of scripture that the Witch of Endor summoned the soul of Samuel. Pierre has at least explained why he believes that is the case by stating his interpretation and application of certain scriptures. You also seem unaware that scripture uses the word phantasm to refer to what the disciples feared Jesus was when he walked on the water. In the third account of that event the word is translated spirit.
That has nothing to do with this thread and so it seems you are attempting to disrupt those that are studying the word of God. Why would you choose to do that?
If there is a relationship then please feel free to share it on the thread “Do Spirits have bodies” in Traditions since God has not given me the ability to read your mind. Thank you!
George,
I am studiing particular scriptures with angels in them to discover what they say or demonstrate about the bodies of angels. That is why I wrote the primary post in the way I did.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 06 2011,02:24) Pierre, It is a good question that you propose but I do not see how the mystery of why the donkey’s life was to be spared has any bearing of this study to determine what the story of Balaam and his donkey tell us of the bodies of angels. I do not know the answer to your question though I could point out that only Balaam was accountable for his sin while both the donkey and the servants were under his orders. Still God has been known to strike down those associated with the wrongdoer even if they are innocent of the sin in order to show that sin itself is evil. For instance David’s first child with Beersheba paid the price for the sins committed by his parents.
kerwinwhat would be the message ??
Pierre
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 05 2011,19:28) George, I am studiing particular scriptures with angels in them to discover what they say or demonstrate about the bodies of angels. That is why I wrote the primary post in the way I did.
How can you “study” something you can't even see?Georg
Georg,
We study either the seen or unseen using the guidance provided by God. I merely quoted the scripture I propose studying and the points in it that I believe relate to the bodies of angels.
Pierre,
I was merely speculating based on scripture about why the life of the donkey was spared. I proposed my answer and then pointed out a possible flaw to my answer. There is no way to tell in this case as far as I can see since it appears God did not choose to provide an answer. Some mysteries are meant to remain unsolved and God determines that is for the best.
Kerwin,
God has provided an answer. You just chose to ignore it.The donkey, like Eve to Adam, was not responsible.
See that Eve was the one who ate first, yet was not credited with bringing sin into the wod because if Adam had said 'No', the world would still not have encountered sin.
Likewise, the donkey would have been blameless, being under the orders of it's master, Balaam.
So the sin was Balaam's, the sin was Adam's.Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 07 2011,04:00) Pierre, I was merely speculating based on scripture about why the life of the donkey was spared. I proposed my answer and then pointed out a possible flaw to my answer. There is no way to tell in this case as far as I can see since it appears God did not choose to provide an answer. Some mysteries are meant to remain unsolved and God determines that is for the best.
Kerwinthe donkey was acting according to what he saw,and so did not obey his master,and did nothing wrong,
but Balaam could not see what he was doing ,he was blinded by the offer that Balak add proposed him,
this was the reason why the angel appeared to him.
2Pe 2:15 They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness.
Rev 2:14 Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: You have people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin by eating food sacrificed to idols and by committing sexual immorality.Pierre
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 06 2011,20:54) Georg, We study either the seen or unseen using the guidance provided by God. I merely quoted the scripture I propose studying and the points in it that I believe relate to the bodies of angels.
And what do you expect to learn from that?Georg
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 04 2011,18:14) Numbers 22:21-35(NIV) reads Quote Balaam got up in the morning, saddled his donkey and went with the Moabite officials. But God was very angry when he went,and the angel of the LORD stood in the road to oppose him. Balaam was riding on his donkey, and his two servants were with him. When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with a drawn sword in his hand, it turned off the road into a field. Balaam beat it to get it back on the road.
Then the angel of the LORD stood in a narrow path through the vineyards, with walls on both sides. When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, it pressed close to the wall, crushing Balaam’s foot against it. So he beat the donkey again.
Then the angel of the LORD moved on ahead and stood in a narrow place where there was no room to turn, either to the right or to the left. When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, it lay down under Balaam, and he was angry and beat it with his staff. Then the LORD opened the donkey’s mouth, and it said to Balaam, “What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?”
Balaam answered the donkey, “You have made a fool of me! If only I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now.”
The donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?” “No,” he said.Then the LORD opened Balaam’s eyes, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with his sword drawn . So he bowed low and fell facedown.
The angel of the LORD asked him, “Why have you beaten your donkey these three times? I have come here to oppose you because your path is a reckless one before me. The donkey saw me and turned away from me these three times. If it had not turned away, I would certainly have killed you by now, but I would have spared it.”
Balaam said to the angel of the LORD, “I have sinned. I did not realize you were standing in the road to oppose me. Now if you are displeased, I will go back.”
The angel of the LORD said to Balaam, “Go with the men, but speak only what I tell you.” So Balaam went with Balak’s officials.
1)An angel can stand in a location and take up space, v.22.
2)A donkey sees the angel and later acts to avoid it three times and thus saved Balaam, v.23.
3)An angel holds a drawn sword in its hand, v.23.
4)Balaam finally saw the angel that was in his range of vision the whole time, v 31.What do these four points from this scripture tell us about the bodies of angels?
Hi Kerwin,Good points. If angels just “create” bodies to deal with flesh, then did that angel create one body that only the donkey could see, and then create another one that both the donkey AND Balaam could see?
This also puts a damper on the theory that angels live in a different dimension and can choose to pop in and out of ours at will. Because both the donkey and Balaam were in the same dimension at the time that only one of them could see the angel.
I believe angels always have bodies, and God chooses who can see them, and when. There might be 3 of them in your room right now, and God just hasn't given you eyes to see them or ears to hear them. Who really knows?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Baker @ Jan. 06 2011,04:12) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 05 2011,19:28) George, I am studiing particular scriptures with angels in them to discover what they say or demonstrate about the bodies of angels. That is why I wrote the primary post in the way I did.
How can you “study” something you can't even see?Georg
I study God daily. But I have never seen Him. I also can learn much about love, for example, without ever physically seeing love.peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 07 2011,13:37) Quote (Baker @ Jan. 06 2011,04:12) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 05 2011,19:28) George, I am studiing particular scriptures with angels in them to discover what they say or demonstrate about the bodies of angels. That is why I wrote the primary post in the way I did.
How can you “study” something you can't even see?Georg
I study God daily. But I have never seen Him. I also can learn much about love, for example, without ever physically seeing love.peace and love,
mike
We have the Bible to learn about God, that's what the bible is for, but what is there about angels that is important to “study”?Georg
To all,
I already stated it is plausible to believe that God chose to spare the life of the mule because he was innocent of any transgression but I did not state that was absolutely the case. God is known to spare the wicked for various reasons as well. Some of those reasons may fit the mule in this case as well despite the fact he is innocent. Our lives are in the hands of God to determine when we will die and his will is righteous. Did David’s child with Bathsheba commit a wrong that God chose to take his life?
This issue is off topic as far as I can tell.
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