Non-trinity believing church?

[kerwin]

Quote (david @ April 03 2013,11:54)

Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2013,04:51) Quote (david @ April 02 2013,10:17) Does it not seem to all, that true Christians around the world, should generally believe the same things? David, They will come to learn the one true gospel.  The true teachers of God will teach it.  They are the good fish. Ok, then does it seem that the “true teachers” should all be teaching the same things?

David,

The good teachers teach the same truth though they do have differences of opinions. For example Paul and Barnabus over Mark.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (david @ April 03 2013,19:47)

T8, Does this mean you will stop explaining to people where and why they are wrong?

No. I was talking about the end. Of course I will rebuke those who teach lies. Misconceptions are many and we can change when we see the error of our way. But those that teach lies not only cause problems for themselves, but potentially to their hearers as well. They are often beyond changing because they have got to the stage of not only believing the lie, but promoting it. Repenting would mean they have to admit not only that they were wrong, and not only that they laboured in vain, but that they laboured and earned a debt. At this stage pride knocks at the door and offers them to continue.

So yes I will continue to rebuke where necessary, but ultimately God will either rebuke us or commend us.

[kerwin]

Quote (jb2u @ April 03 2013,22:13)

Quote (Lightenup @ April 03 2013,13:24) jb2u, This thread is about finding a church that does not teach the trinity. I am challenging you as to why are you leaving the church and looking for another since I see the plurality in unity with the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. I know what the thread is about, seeing how I started it and all. The reason why I would not go to a church where I disagree with their doctrine is because God told me not to!!! 2 John 1:9-11 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. Christ's doctrine is pretty clear I think. Of which, the most basic would include…. 1) That His Father, GOD, is the one true GOD. 2) That He sent His only begotten SON to die for our sins. That His Son died and was resurrected so that we may have everlasting life. 3) Although saved by faith…faith without works is dead!!! I am guessing that we just will not see this the same. I find it sad, but I understand that not all people will know the truth. People will recognize the Lord, but He will say, “I know you not whence ye are.” Luke 13:25

jb2u,

I don't know your doctrine. The wife is being hidden at this time. Her children are scattered. Desolation abounds.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (jb2u @ April 04 2013,06:13)

Quote (Lightenup @ April 03 2013,13:24) jb2u, This thread is about finding a church that does not teach the trinity. I am challenging you as to why are you leaving the church and looking for another since I see the plurality in unity with the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. I know what the thread is about, seeing how I started it and all. The reason why I would not go to a church where I disagree with their doctrine is because God told me not to!!! 2 John 1:9-11 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. Christ's doctrine is pretty clear I think. Of which, the most basic would include…. 1) That His Father, GOD, is the one true GOD. 2) That He sent His only begotten SON to die for our sins. That His Son died and was resurrected so that we may have everlasting life. 3) Although saved by faith…faith without works is dead!!! I am guessing that we just will not see this the same. I find it sad, but I understand that not all people will know the truth. People will recognize the Lord, but He will say, “I know you not whence ye are.” Luke 13:25

Good post jb2u. I encourage you to continue defending the faith and remain firm in your conviction.

It is clear that LU has departed the doctrine of Christ for her own doctrine. For what gain I do not know.

(John 17:3, NASB).
“And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent,”

Even a child can understand that. Only an adult would dare to change what Jesus said here.

[2besee]

Quote (2besee @ Mar. 28 2013,19:13)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 28 2013,14:11) Quote (jb2u @ Mar. 28 2013,09:40) Thank you Ed J and t8 for the welcome. As I said, I really do not like to argue. My goal was really just to see if someone knows of a church that teaches the truth. Who knew it would lead to 11 pages!! Hi JB2U, WE  “are the church”  you are looking for. Here's some inspirational Pastors for you:  (Link) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Hi Ed, By “We” you are seriously not meaning that this forum is some type of a Church, right? lol. It does not feel that good, that is for sure.

I would like to take back what I said here, it has it's good moments too

[terraricca]

all

the truth is that ,some of those cast away have already refused to accept the apostles envoy's and some congregation leaders prevent them to even talk to his congregation ,so that now the wolves took possession of those souls in his now personal congregation,

And also understand what Paul says to his spiritual son Thimoty ,after he warned him about the corruption in the teachings and told him :to stay away from them and stick to what he as learned ,knowing from whom he received the teaching,

So it does not matter what :we all have to stick to the scriptures and make sure to overcome the trickery of the devil works (men against the truth)

So it still leaves us alone with Christ and his father our God ,it does not matter if you are in or outside a church or congregation,,the trouble with men made churches is that they feel that they have to belong first to the church then to God ,this is why the leaders put rituals in place and create a exclusive club ,

And make sure that the ones that are not conforming to those rules of taught s are corrected or expelled and Declare unwanted for association ,spiritually killed ,until they accepting the will and the ways of the church views,never mind scriptures this would be secondary,

No kingdom (church)can survive if it is divided,this is also the rule that Constantine the great applied to his kingdom with religion,

So bottom line ,we have to follow Christ and his father words ,no place in the scriptures it says that we have to stay within a corrupted church or congregation and so expose ourself to become corrupted,but it say to run away of those type of congregation or company by fear of corruption,

And last it is Christ that will judge us not men ,

————–

[Lightenup]

Quote (jb2u @ April 03 2013,10:31)

Quote (Lightenup @ April 03 2013,13:24) I can see two possibilities as to why Jesus says that. 1. He is comparing His Father to the gods of the nations of the earth in which Jesus is walking among. 2. Jesus is not just God, the Son, but God/Man the Son. The Father is only true God, not true God/Man like Jesus. In no way is Jesus teaching anybody that He is not a God nor that He is not a true God by the verse in John 17. He is affirming His Father as the only true God compared with all the other gods of the nations and that He and His Father must be both known for eternal salvation. IMO. Well, I was going to say, “even if Jesus, Himself, told you that He was not the one true God, you still would not believe it”, but He did tell you that and you still don't believe it!!! I really do not know what else to tell you. God knew what would happen. He warned us about following the doctrine of men. John 7:16-18 Ephesians 4:14 1 Timothy 6:3-5 to name a few!! You claim to agree with the Nicene Creed, which IS a doctrine of man!!! God did not give us the Bible so that other people could interpret the scriptures and tell us about God. He gave us the Bible so that we may know Him and Jesus, whom he sent!!

jb2u,
you said:

Quote

God did not give us the Bible so that other people could interpret the scriptures and tell us about God. He gave us the Bible so that we may know Him and Jesus, whom he sent!!

Do you read an English Bible or do you read the original Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic texts? If you read the Bible in English, then you realize that it was other people that are interpreting the original languages and telling you about God, right? The original Bible was not written in English.

Also, why don't you tell me why the choices that I gave you would not fit the context?

[Lightenup]

Quote (jb2u @ April 03 2013,10:14)

Quote (Lightenup @ April 03 2013,12:59) I think that you are putting too much importance in pronouns. For instance, read this passage in Hosea 14 and notice how the pronouns for the same subject (Israel) change from plural to singular.  So, my point is that you do not have a solid argument that God is one person because 'He' is used as a pronoun for God. I will try to explain this again, It is NOT about the “pronouns”!! Yes, I AGREE that a plural group can be represented by a singular pronoun. I have ALWAYS agreed to that!!! I do NOT say that GOD is one person because it says “He.” It is about the USE of the word “one.” Please, please understand that concept!! ONE, ONE, ONE…..IF you see the word “one” and you want to KNOW if it is talking about a set or a singular item, then you look at what pronoun is used. If it is “we are one” then we are a unity. If it is “he is one”, then he is a singular person. This ONLY applies if there is a use of the word “one.” Again, in all of the examples you keep giving me, you are only “proving” that which I have never refuted!! You keep giving examples of “groups” that are represented by a singular pronoun. You then proceed to say, “see you are wrong.” The problem is…I NEVER said that a “plural group” can not be represented by a singular pronoun!!! And NO, there is not an implied use of the word “one.” This only applies to the actual USE of the word “one.” Otherwise, it does not need to be defined.

jb2u,
Where is a scripture that says 'He is one' as in 'echad' in the original language and it talks about Jehovah? Please don't cite the Shema because there is NO 'He' in the original language, fyi.

[Lightenup]

Quote (jb2u @ April 03 2013,10:31)

Quote (Lightenup @ April 03 2013,13:24) I can see two possibilities as to why Jesus says that. 1. He is comparing His Father to the gods of the nations of the earth in which Jesus is walking among. 2. Jesus is not just God, the Son, but God/Man the Son. The Father is only true God, not true God/Man like Jesus. In no way is Jesus teaching anybody that He is not a God nor that He is not a true God by the verse in John 17. He is affirming His Father as the only true God compared with all the other gods of the nations and that He and His Father must be both known for eternal salvation. IMO. Well, I was going to say, “even if Jesus, Himself, told you that He was not the one true God, you still would not believe it”, but He did tell you that and you still don't believe it!!! I really do not know what else to tell you. God knew what would happen. He warned us about following the doctrine of men. John 7:16-18 Ephesians 4:14 1 Timothy 6:3-5 to name a few!! You claim to agree with the Nicene Creed, which IS a doctrine of man!!! God did not give us the Bible so that other people could interpret the scriptures and tell us about God. He gave us the Bible so that we may know Him and Jesus, whom he sent!!

jb2u,
What specifically do you disagree with in that creed? A teaching that men agree to teach is not necessarily wrong just because it is a teaching that men teach and agree to. You are apparently a man and you come on here and teach. From my view, your teaching is not in accord with the fullness of the revelation of Jesus Christ. Therefore, your teaching is the teaching of 'men' and there are several of you on here. You remind me of the friends' of Job. They were sure of their teaching also…but God showed that they were WRONG and needed to repent.

[david]

Quote (terraricca @ April 04 2013,02:34)

Quote (david @ April 03 2013,12:11) Terrarica, that's not what I'm doing here.   How would you answer my question: does it seem to you that the “true teachers” kerwin speaks of should be teaching the same things?  Or, would the true teachers teach different things, based on location, preference, opinion, tradition, etc? David Yes I will answer you : First the only truth we have is the scriptures,so all or any that says to follow the truth would do it in according to the scriptures truth right Yes Now we have to look at why the truth to some may not be the same ; 1) personal interest 2) greed , 3) the love of self glory so looking at what it takes to be true in truth before God almighty,it would take :self sacrifice ,guiding yourself by humility to make the glory of God and his son more important than your own ,the glory of them being the full truth, Also accepting that we are nothing ,and that the scriptures is all we have to become closer to our creator,and we should not try to show others in our ego that we are something that they are not ,because we all receive from God according to our devotion to him . The teachers should understand that he does not own the spirit of truth that comes from God through Christ ,and so any disciples he make it as to be made for God s glory not his own, If I miss something ,remind me ,

Hi terr,

So, is that a yes? The “true teachers” kerwin spoke of should be teaching the same things–?

[david]

Quote (kerwin @ April 04 2013,07:38)

Quote (david @ April 03 2013,11:54) Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2013,04:51) Quote (david @ April 02 2013,10:17) Does it not seem to all, that true Christians around the world, should generally believe the same things? David, They will come to learn the one true gospel.  The true teachers of God will teach it.  They are the good fish. Ok, then does it seem that the “true teachers” should all be teaching the same things? David, The good teachers teach the same truth though they do have differences of opinions.  For example Paul and Barnabus over Mark.

But Paul and barnabus over mark, was not a belief or Christian teaching. It was a differenc elf opinion really.

I prefer blue. You think green is nicer. Doesn't matter.

God burns people in hellfire for eternity. No he doesn't.
Having sex with same gender is acceptable to God. No, it isn't.
God is unknowable impersonal mysterious trinity. No he isn't.

These things matter and one teaching one, and one teaching the other means that one is definitely wrong, and the other is right, whereas one preferring blue over green is a matter of preference.

So, do you think that true teachers would not all be teaching e same things?

[Proclaimer]

I think they would be teaching the same things.
But you have to give room for Babylon because that is the state of many things in this time.

Come out of her MY people.

[jb2u]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 04 2013,12:27)

Do you read an English Bible or do you read the original Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic texts? If you read the Bible in English, then you realize that it was other people that are interpreting the original languages and telling you about God, right? The original Bible was not written in English.

Well, I read it in an English translation. That is where your logic is faulty. You see, translation does NOT equal interpretation.

If a verse in Hebrew reads….
“and then, created God the world”
and jb's translation comes along and puts it in English as such
“and then, God created the world.”

jb did NOT interpret the verse. He translated it!!

However, when a group of people get together in the 4th century and discuss what the scripture says. And, They decide that “God is not one”, that is an INTERPRETATION of the scripture!! They took the scripture and decided WHAT the scripture means.

Now, a translator is about the written word; whereas, interpreter is about the spoken word. However, that is NOT the only difference!!
If a translator sees, “Good morning” in one language, he should then translate this to “Good morning” in the next language in order to do his job correctly. If an interpreter hears one person say “good morning” in one language, the interpreter can say “hello” in the other language. That is perfectly acceptable!!

The translator ONLY puts the words into another language. He should NOT change words or interpret meaning. He may add a word that is used in one language but not another in order to translate it and have it make sense, but he should never add words to change the meaning of the verse. That is why it is important to look at where and why a verse might have changed!!!

I believe that God wanted everyone to know His words. I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God. I know that satan wanted the Bible gone and it did not happen! It went out into many languages. Now, satan was able to mess with doctrine and that is why we are warned by GOD to stay away from the doctrine of man. I believe that God has given me a translation of His original word so that I may know Him, Jesus, and the way to my salvation!!

Quote

Also, why don't you tell me why the choices that I gave you would not fit the context?

Simple, you never give one example where the word “one” needs to be defined as one unit or one thing. You only give examples where a group are represented as a singular pronoun.

[jb2u]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 04 2013,12:46)

jb2u, Where is a scripture that says 'He is one' as in 'echad' in the original language and it talks about Jehovah? Please don't cite the Shema because there is NO 'He' in the original language, fyi.

You are right the Shema does not say “He is one.” It actually uses His name so that their is no confusion as to whom we are saying is ONE.

If I say jb is one. You would never think, he must be talking about him and his son!!

I could ask you the same. Where does it say GOD is Jesus and His Father together? I am not talking about where it says His Father is the one true God and then another verse that says They are one. This means there is one God and Jesus and God are in unity. Jesus also wants us to be one. Does this mean that he wants us to be God, too?

[jb2u]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 04 2013,12:53)

jb2u, What specifically do you disagree with in that creed? A teaching that men agree to teach is not necessarily wrong just because it is a teaching that men teach and agree to. You are apparently a man and you come on here and teach. From my view, your teaching is not in accord with the fullness of the revelation of Jesus Christ. Therefore, your teaching is the teaching of 'men' and there are several of you on here. You remind me of the friends' of Job. They were sure of their teaching also…but God showed that they were WRONG and needed to repent.

I agree that a teaching of man is not wrong just because men teach it, so long as it is the teaching of God.

God never says that there are two or three Gods in one. He never teaches a triune concept; and yet, the Nicene Creed is used as the very basis of the trinity doctrine. Which, you state you disagree with too!! The men that came up with the Nicene Creed believe in the trinity. Does that not give you pause?? Why do we even need a creed. The Bible is the word of God and THAT is what should be taught.

I also do not believe that the Holy Spirit is a second/third “personality” of the triune God that is to be worshiped as God.

You have NO idea how much I hate this back and forth. I only came here looking for a church. I knew there were members here, like me, that do not subscribe to the trinity. I also do not profess to be a teacher!! What I know is not from men but FROM the Bible, the inspired word of GOD!!! You apparently do not believe in the trinity (I think?), but probably go to a church that believes in it. God tells us to stay away from such doctrines, right? God knew that churches would become corrupted by satan. He knew the ungodly would take up the Bible and go into the church!! That is why he gave us the Bible and the ability to know him through His word and prayer!! It is an important teaching that is in the Bible!!

Again, you can talk against my beliefs. You can claim to know the truth. But, you can not change what the word of God says!! In the end, we will both know the truth. Agreed?

[Lightenup]

Quote (jb2u @ April 04 2013,07:44)

Quote (Lightenup @ April 04 2013,12:46) jb2u, Where is a scripture that says 'He is one' as in 'echad' in the original language and it talks about Jehovah? Please don't cite the Shema because there is NO 'He' in the original language, fyi. You are right the Shema does not say “He is one.” It actually uses His name so that their is no confusion as to whom we are saying is ONE. If I say jb is one. You would never think, he must be talking about him and his son!! I could ask you the same. Where does it say GOD is Jesus and His Father together? I am not talking about where it says His Father is the one true God and then another verse that says They are one. This means there is one God and Jesus and God are in unity. Jesus also wants us to be one. Does this mean that he wants us to be God, too?

jb2u,
I do not like to argue either but I do not believe that we are to tolerate the lies of the enemy that are hanging on to another person. The LORD has told me to be strong and courageous that is why I challenge you, not because it puffs me up to be belittled by you or others. Why would that puff me up anyway?? I am not saying that you are suggesting that I am challenging you because of my pride, but some say that. I cringe whenever I see that some people have made a post to me. I like to be agreed with, that builds me up. So, obviously I am not here on HN to feel good but to be right in the thick of those who are confused and believing the lie to help them and do battle for them. I am here to pull my bow, aim the arrow of truth and shoot the lying monkey demon off your back. It wouldn't be God's love for you to see the lying monkey demon on your back and give it a little pat on its head and tell you how cute it looks on you.

I have gone back and found this quote of yours because I believe you need to rethink these conclusions that you made in this quote in light of the fact that you have not shown me one scripture that has Jehovah saying that He is one where it cannot mean that He is one as a unity. Here is your quote with your conclusion bolded by me so that you can see what I believe that you have not in anyway proven. However, I have proven that a singular pronoun can be used for a unity which seems to be a main contention that you have with the trinity.

Quote

Well I conceded that things can be one set or one thing. As for the Shema….the Jews believe that it clearly states that God is one and not one set!!! Now my point was not just that he used I, He, Him. Those were in addition to. The context of those verses that He wanted Israel to know is that God is One. That IS the context of those verses. Additionally he uses I, He, and Him. You can use singular pronouns to represent those in oneness such as Israel, but if you are using the word ONE with the singular pronoun then it means ONE. Note the same use of echad “one” is used for Adam and Eve…and THEY became echad (one). SEE, it does not say and He became ONE. No, it says, THEY became ONE; therefore, you know that they became one union and NOT one being. We know this because of the use of the pronoun THEY.

Look at your statement of supposed fact:
“if you are using the word ONE with the singular pronoun then it means ONE.“

You have failed to prove that using one with the singular pronoun means one person. Can you show me anywhere that says it/he/she/I is echad and it can't possible be a unity in plurality, such as a nation?

Can you admit that the Shema statement alone as originally written, does not give you enough information to decide if YHVH is one person or one set?

you asked me:

Quote

I could ask you the same. Where does it say GOD is Jesus and His Father together?

Deut 10:17
For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, who is not partial and takes no bribe.

The NT clarifies that for US, there is one God and one Lord and they are not the same person. One is the Father and the other is Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 8:6
yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

The NT also clarifies Jesus Christ as the Lord of lords.
Rev 17:14
They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.”

The OT has the Word of YHVH declaring HIMSELF as YHVH. Gen 15.

Quote

4Then the word of the Lord came to him: “This man will not be your heir, but a son who is your own flesh and blood will be your heir.” 5He took him outside and said, “Look up at the sky and count the stars—if indeed you can count them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspringd be.” 6Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness. 7He also said to him, “I am the Lord, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to take possession of it.”

So, there is YHVH of whom the Word is 'of' and the Word is YHVH also.

My understanding is that YHVH is the name of a corporate God in some contexts and the name of either member of the corporate God in other contexts.

This would not be unlike the name 'Israel' which is the name of a corporate nation in some contexts or the name of an individual member whom the nation is named after…Jacob.

[kerwin]

Quote (david @ April 04 2013,10:49)

Quote (kerwin @ April 04 2013,07:38) Quote (david @ April 03 2013,11:54) Quote (kerwin @ April 03 2013,04:51) Quote (david @ April 02 2013,10:17) Does it not seem to all, that true Christians around the world, should generally believe the same things? David, They will come to learn the one true gospel.  The true teachers of God will teach it.  They are the good fish. Ok, then does it seem that the “true teachers” should all be teaching the same things? David, The good teachers teach the same truth though they do have differences of opinions.  For example Paul and Barnabus over Mark. But Paul and barnabus over mark, was not a belief or Christian teaching.  It was a differenc elf opinion really.   I prefer blue.  You think green is nicer.  Doesn't matter.   God burns people in hellfire for eternity.  No he doesn't.   Having sex with same gender is acceptable to God.  No, it isn't.   God is unknowable impersonal mysterious trinity.   No he isn't. These things matter and one teaching one, and one teaching the other means that one is definitely wrong, and the other is right,  whereas one preferring blue over green is a matter of preference. So, do you think that true teachers would not all be teaching e same things?

David,

There are teachers that are bad fish and so teach what is not true. Even those that teach what is true but do not do it are bad fish. They are still in the net that is the kingdom of heaven.

There are also good fish that lack knowledge and so teach what they should not teach.

[Lightenup]

jb2u,
you said:

Quote

You apparently do not believe in the trinity (I think?), but probably go to a church that believes in it. God tells us to stay away from such doctrines, right? God knew that churches would become corrupted by satan. He knew the ungodly would take up the Bible and go into the church!! That is why he gave us the Bible and the ability to know him through His word and prayer!! It is an important teaching that is in the Bible!! Again, you can talk against my beliefs. You can claim to know the truth. But, you can not change what the word of God says!! In the end, we will both know the truth. Agreed?

I believe in God the Father, the only Begotten God the Son, and their Holy Spirit and that makes up the Godhead. I don't understand the 'Holy Spirit' to be a third person but consider the Holy Spirit to be the inner person of the Father and the Son. Our spirit is called our inner man, did you know that? Anyway, if someone lies dead in a casket, they are not there but their 'inner man' has gone somewhere else and therefore that inner man is more-so that person than the one lying in the casket. The early church father's did not refer to the Holy Spirit as a 'person' but did acknowledge it as an extension of God in some way. So, if that makes me an 'early trinitarian' well, maybe, if you need a label besides 'Christian' but why would you need a label when the Bible does not give that label? That is why I just say that I am a Christian. I look to God the Father, the only Begotten God the Son, and their Holy Spirit for my creation and salvation.

Can you prove that Jesus is not the only begotten God the Son? Can you prove that Jesus is not claiming to be God the Son? I am not asking you to prove that Jesus isn't God the Father.

[kerwin]

LU,

Quote

I believe in God the Father, the only Begotten God the Son, and their Holy Spirit and that makes up the Godhead.

The Father, who like Jehovah cannot be tempted by evil
The Son, who unlike Jehovah can be tempted by evil
The Spirit that is the Jehovah's Spirit even as a man's spirit is his.

Are they the three you believe in?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 04 2013,12:49)

Can you admit that the Shema statement alone as originally written, does not give you enough information to decide if YHVH is one person or one set?

What?  Kathi, I thought you believed the Father and Son were two completely different Almighty God beings, who worked together as a unity.  Are you now suggesting they are two “persons” in one “being” – like the traditional Trinitarians believe?

How many BEINGS do you believe make up God Almighty, Kathi?  

Quote (Lightenup @ April 04 2013,12:49)

The OT has the Word of YHVH declaring HIMSELF as YHVH. Gen 15.

The OT also makes it seem as if Moses was talking to YHWH Himself in the burning bush……. but we know that it was an angel of God – even though Moses addressed that angel as “God”.

The OT makes it seem as if Jacob wrestled with God Himself, but we find out later that it was really an angel OF God, right?

The OT has Moses speaking first person while he lists the things HE did, and will do, for Israel – as if Moses actually was YHWH, right?

And what do you make of this passage, Kathi?
Judges 2
1 The angel of the Lord went up from Gilgal to Bokim and said, “I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land I swore to give to your ancestors. I said, ‘I will never break my covenant with you, 2 and you shall not make a covenant with the people of this land, but you shall break down their altars.’ Yet you have disobeyed me. Why have you done this?

Is this “angel OF YHWH” actually YHWH Himself?  He sure talks like he is YHWH, doesn't he?  After all, WHO is the one who actually made a covenant with Israel?  YHWH?  Or one of His angels? Who swore to the forefathers of Israel that He would give them the land of the Canaanites? YHWH? Or one of His angels?

Kathi, these are the kinds of SPECKS that t8 was talking about.  You are endlessly searching for specks such as these to prove Jesus is God Almighty.  But in your tireless search, you consistently gloss right over the many PLANKS that CLEARLY and UNEQUIVOCALLY distinguish Jesus as someone OTHER THAN his and our God, Jehovah.

[Author]

Posts