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TRINITARIANISM:
Quote Basil of Caesarea, also called Saint Basil the Great… was the bishop of Caesarea Mazaca in Cappadocia, Asia Minor (modern-day Turkey). He was an influential 4th century Christian theologian and monastic. Theologically, Basil was a supporter of the Nicene faction of the church, in opposition to Arianism on one side and the followers of Apollinaris of Laodicea on the other. His ability to balance his theological convictions with his political connections made Basil a powerful advocate for the Nicene position. In addition to his work as a theologian, Basil was known for his care of the poor and underprivileged….
See Wiklipedia on St. Basil.
Okay, St. Basil was an advocate of the Nicene creed which was trinitarian. And he cared for the poor and under priviledged.
St. Basil founded the FIRST hospital,
Quote The first hospital was built by St. Basil in Caesarea of Cappadicia about A.D. 369….the building of Christian hospitals continued. This Trinitarian's work led to the founding of more hospitals,
Quote St. Chrysostom (d 407), the patriarch of the Eastern church, had hospitals built in Constantinople in the late fourth and early fifth centuries…. The work of these two Trinitarians led to what we know and enjoy as hospitals today
Quote By the sixth century , hospitals had become a part of monasteries. Hence, by the middle of the sixth century in most of Christendom, in the East and the West, “hospitals were securely established” (How Christianity Changed the World p. 156-157, Zondervan Press) NON-TRINITARIANISM:
Quote There is quite a long list of Non-Trinitarian conflicts in the 1990s. Taking a shortcut from A to Z, we can see that Afghanistan is still a hotbed of conflict — between tribal militias, a group of religious extremists backed by a foreign power, and is host to malcontents supporting terrorism or conflicts elsewhere in the world. Algeria has seen Islamic Fundamentalists (initially with broad public support) pitted against a government and military that lacked it.
Leaping ahead to Zaire (or the Congo, or whatever it is today), we have a mix of Tribal militias, seven different armies from six nearby nations; criminal gangs, private security groups, guerrillas supported by a refugee population… and a situation where alliances change with little notice. Going on to Zimbabwe, last year saw a government at war with its own people — using mobs of political cadres to commit arson, rape and murder, while its military was busy over the border in Zaire.
Elsewhere in the world, there are bandits and pirates, armed criminal cartels, terrorists, insurgents, tribal militias, guerrillas and a host of other armed groups. There are militaries that serve no governments and governments that fight their own people. The purposes and methods of all these different combatants are as varied as the rules they operate under.
You can imagine — or have been in — situations where one faction is an ally in the morning, hostile in the afternoon, and neutral at night. Or you’ve been where you need the cooperation of Faction A, but they are opposed to Faction B, who support Faction C, who belong to the same Tribe as Faction D, who are coreligionists with Faction E, who supply Faction A with the proceeds of narcotics grown by Faction F. Is all that clear? Now it is 2000 Hours, and a drunken party of scruffy individuals with rusty AK-47s is approaching your checkpoint…
A theology that has no practical value is wrong. And any interpretation of God's essence that contributes nothing to the well being of humanity, but promotes misunderstanding and war must be discarded at once.
Non-trinitarianism has no practical value. Therefore, NON-TRINITARIANISM IS NON-RELEVANT.
While Trinitarians were building hospitals to care for the infirmed and dying the non-trinitarians continued to start wars. And all their violence goes back to their war cry “God is ONE.”
The non-trinitarians have no meaningful history or legacy of any kind except STIRRING UP TROUBLE. And “Seeking” is the master on this board.
thinker
The Thinker wrote:
Quote The non-trinitarians have no meaningful history or legacy of any kind except STIRRING UP TROUBLE. And “Seeking” is the master on this board.
Hello Bill Maher,
Hi TT,
The purpose of faith is pleasing God and not just worldly things.
We cannot please God by preferring the teachings of theologians over those of His son.
No teaching about any trinity god was found in the mouth of the one given the Spirit of God without measure.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2009,06:47) Hi TT,
The purpose of faith is pleasing God and not just worldly things.
We cannot please God by preferring the teachings of theologians over those of His son.
No teaching about any trinity god was found in the mouth of the one given the Spirit of God without measure.
Nick,
It has been said that theology ought to be practical. Non-trinitarianism is not a practical theology otherwise it would have made significant contributions to humanity. I almost died from pneumonia once. I thank God for those who started hospitals and invented medical science. They were trinitarians.What has non-trinitarianism given to humanity?
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ April 08 2009,08:34) TRINITARIANISM: Quote Basil of Caesarea, also called Saint Basil the Great… was the bishop of Caesarea Mazaca in Cappadocia, Asia Minor (modern-day Turkey). He was an influential 4th century Christian theologian and monastic. Theologically, Basil was a supporter of the Nicene faction of the church, in opposition to Arianism on one side and the followers of Apollinaris of Laodicea on the other. His ability to balance his theological convictions with his political connections made Basil a powerful advocate for the Nicene position. In addition to his work as a theologian, Basil was known for his care of the poor and underprivileged….
See Wiklipedia on St. Basil.
Okay, St. Basil was an advocate of the Nicene creed which was trinitarian. And he cared for the poor and under priviledged.
St. Basil founded the FIRST hospital,
Quote The first hospital was built by St. Basil in Caesarea of Cappadicia about A.D. 369….the building of Christian hospitals continued. This Trinitarian's work led to the founding of more hospitals,
Quote St. Chrysostom (d 407), the patriarch of the Eastern church, had hospitals built in Constantinople in the late fourth and early fifth centuries…. The work of these two Trinitarians led to what we know and enjoy as hospitals today
Quote By the sixth century , hospitals had become a part of monasteries. Hence, by the middle of the sixth century in most of Christendom, in the East and the West, “hospitals were securely established” (How Christianity Changed the World p. 156-157, Zondervan Press) Paul Harvey always concluded with, “THE REST OF THE STORY”.
Trinitarians comprise the greatest number of professing Christians. The also are responsible for the majority of
actions taken by Christians presumably.Are they the peace loving, child saving, hospitable building, rescuers of the poor only?
In the Middle Ages, a judicial procedure that was used to combat heresy; in early modern times, a formal Roman Catholic judicial institution. Inquisito, a Latin term meaning investigation or inquest, was a legal procedure that involved the assemblage of evidence and the prosecution of a criminal trial. Use of the procedure against the heresies of the Cathari and Waldenses was approved by Pope Gregory IX in 1231. Suspected heretics were arrested, interrogated, and tried; the use of torture was approved by Innocent IV in 1252. Penalties ranged from prayer and fasting to imprisonment; convicted heretics who refused to recant could be executed by lay authorities. Medieval inquisitors functioned widely in northern Italy and southern France. The Spanish Inquisition was authorized by Sixtus IV in 1478; the pope later tried to limit its powers but was opposed by the Spanish crown. The auto-da-fé, the public ceremony at which sentences were pronounced, was an elaborate celebration, and the grand inquisitor Tomás de Torquemada was responsible for burning about 2,000 heretics at the stake. The Spanish Inquisition was also introduced into Mexico, Peru, Sicily (1517), and the Netherlands (1522), and it was not entirely suppressed in Spain until the early 19th century.
For more information on Inquisition, visit Britannica.com.
http://www.answers.com/topic/inquisitionCrusades
Main article: Crusade
The Crusades were a series of military campaigns—usually sanctioned by the Papacy—that took place during the 11th through 13th centuries in response to the Muslim Conquests. Originally, the goal was to recapture Jerusalem and the Holy Land from the Muslims, and support the besieged Christian Byzantine Empire against the Muslim Seljuq expansion into Asia Minor and Europe proper. Later, Crusades were launched against other targets, either for religious reasons, such as the Albigensian Crusade, the Northern Crusades, or because of political conflict, such as the Aragonese CrusadeFrench Wars of Religion
Main article: French Wars of Religion
In 16th Century France there was a succession of wars between Roman Catholics and Protestants (Hugenots primarily). These series of wars were known as the Wars of Religion.[edit] Thirty Years War
Main article: Thirty Years War
In the first half of the 17th century, the German states, Scandinavia (Sweden, primarily) and Poland were beset by religious warfare. Roman Catholicism and Calvinism figured in the opposing sides of this conflict, though Catholic France did take the side of the Protestants but purely for political reasons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_warIs it not possible that non-trinitarians were envolved in any of the noble deeds accredited only to trinitarians? Is there nothing good that non-trinitarians have ever done or are we dealing with bias.
As, in the tradition of Paul Harvey, we get some of the REST OF THE STORY – we find we have reported to us a half truth. Someone once said a half truth is a falsehood.
Seeking
Quote (thethinker @ April 09 2009,08:58) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2009,06:47) Hi TT,
The purpose of faith is pleasing God and not just worldly things.
We cannot please God by preferring the teachings of theologians over those of His son.
No teaching about any trinity god was found in the mouth of the one given the Spirit of God without measure.
Nick,
It has been said that theology ought to be practical. Non-trinitarianism is not a practical theology otherwise it would have made significant contributions to humanity. I almost died from pneumonia once. I thank God for those who started hospitals and invented medical science. They were trinitarians.What has non-trinitarianism given to humanity?
thinker
Hi TT,
Yes but theology is practically useless.
Carnal man's attempts to understand a spiritual God.
seek ye first the kingdom and everything will be added to you.
Many will call Jesus Lord for all sorts of reasons but will not be known by him.Matthew 7:22
” Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'Lk13
25When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:26Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
lk6
46″
Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?Hi tt,
Rom10 does not apply only to the Jews” 2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. “
This topic is truly silly. How about Isaac Newton, Ben Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson to name a few people who were both non-trinitarians and contributed greatly to humanity.
This is truly a ridiculous argument. One would have to be completely blind to history, or totally biased, to buy what thethinker is trying to sell in this thread.
Quote (thethinker @ April 09 2009,08:58) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2009,06:47) Hi TT,
The purpose of faith is pleasing God and not just worldly things.
We cannot please God by preferring the teachings of theologians over those of His son.
No teaching about any trinity god was found in the mouth of the one given the Spirit of God without measure.
Nick,
It has been said that theology ought to be practical. Non-trinitarianism is not a practical theology otherwise it would have made significant contributions to humanity. I almost died from pneumonia once. I thank God for those who started hospitals and invented medical science. They were trinitarians.What has non-trinitarianism given to humanity?
thinker
Hi TT,
So your boast is that your religion is useful to mankind.
In what way does that make it what God wants?
Is the highest aim just to serve men?
That defines humanismQuote While Trinitarians were building hospitals to care for the infirmed and dying the non-trinitarians continued to start wars. And all their violence goes back to their war cry “God is ONE.” The non-trinitarians have no meaningful history or legacy of any kind except STIRRING UP TROUBLE.
History is bloody. We don't have “history” because we don't kill millions of people. We don't have that legacy, true. Name a war. Name a bloody guesome conflict where millions died. You'll find trinitarians on boths sides killing each other.
Quote Non-trinitarianism is not a practical theology otherwise it would have made significant contributions to humanity. What contribution did Jesus make to society? Did he start social programs? Or did he preach the kingdom? (Luke 4:43)
What did Jesus say about his true followers and their interaction with the world?
They would be “no part of the world” of which satan is ruler.So I think you have it exactly backwards. Satan, who is an angel of light and his ministers, who are the same, put on a great show. But behind the scenes, terrible things are being committed in the name of the trinitarian God.
Quote I thank God for those who started hospitals and invented medical science. They were trinitarians. For someone named “the thinker” your logic is interesting.
If the klu klux klan invented hospitals, that would not make their beliefs correct. It means they did a good thing. Your logic is fallacious.
Quote A theology that has no practical value is wrong. –the thinker
The only practical value aspect of believing whether God is a trinity or not, is that in believing he is a trinity, you are depersonalizing him. People were helped along the way to this belief by removing God's name from the Bible thousands of times and replacing it with “lord” or “God.”
In depersonalizing him, you are making him far away from us, and unknowable.To me, this seems like something that an enemy of God would do–remove his name from his book, and make him someone we can't know as a friend or person–make him distant.
So, from a practical standpoint, the enemy of the Bible who was behind removing God's name had a lot of reason to make God unknowable–He (satan) doesn't want God to be worshiped, but wants confusion, and blury edges. He wants things hard to understand. He wants….a mystery. Is this not how the trinity is often described?
Quote And any interpretation of God's essence that contributes nothing to the well being of humanity, but promotes misunderstanding and war must be discarded at once. So, truth is not important to you, but rather, everyone getting along, is the main thing.
As it turns out, the wars that have been committed had people on both sides being trinitarians. Those wars were committed not because one side or the other wasn't trinitarian, but for political reasons. As far as I can tell, the Bible makes plain that Christians are to be “no part of the world.” The earliest Christians DID NOT get involved in wars or politics. It wasn't until the apostasy took effect that people began to think many things were ok–the world, war, trinity, hellfire, etc.
Quote Non-trinitarianism has no practical value. Therefore, NON-TRINITARIANISM IS NON-RELEVANT. Is being true of “value” to you?
You don't seem to place high value on seeking out truth. I would think “the thinker” would place some value on whether a thing is true or not and less value on what effect that thing has on how a person lives.
I know millions of non-trinitarians who would rather die themselves then kill another person in war.
I know personally of no such trinitarian. hmmmmm.I know I keep commenting on this quite a bit, but I just find this extremely bizarre and twisted.
The argument is equivelent to saying:
Hitler was a Catholic (trinitarian) and he killed millions, therefore, trinitarianism is wrong.It is an obvious fallacy in thinking.
Earliest Christians and the World:
“Early Christianity was little understood and was regarded with little favor by those who ruled the pagan world. . . . Christians refused to share certain duties of Roman citizens. . . . The Christians . . . felt it a violation of their faith to enter military service. They would not hold political office. They would not worship the emperor.”
–On the Road to Civilization—A World History, A. K. Heckel and J. G. Sigman, 1937, pp. 237-8“The Christians stood aloof and distinct from the state, . . . and Christianity seemed able to influence civil life only in that manner which, it must be confessed, is the purest, by practically endeavouring to instil more and more of holy feeling into the citizens of the state.”
–The History of the Christian Religion and Church, During the Three First Centuries, (New York, 1848), Augustus Neander, translated from German by H. J. Rose, p. 168“They refused to take any active part in the civil administration or the military defence of the empire. . . . It was impossible that the Christians, without renouncing a more sacred duty, could assume the character of soldiers, of magistrates, or of princes.”
—History of Christianity, Edward Gibbon, 1891, pp. 162-3.“While they [the Christians] inculcated the maxims of passive obedience, they refused to take any active part in the civil administration or the military defence of the empire. . . . It was impossible that the Christians, without renouncing a more sacred duty, could assume the character of soldiers, of magistrates, or of princes.”—The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, by Edward Gibbon, Vol. I, p. 416.
“The Christians . . . shrank from public office and military service.”
–“Persecution of the Christians in Gaul, A.D. 177,” by F. P. G. Guizot in The Great Events by Famous Historians, edited by R. Johnson, 1905, Vol. III, p. 246)Speaking of the early Christians, the book World History, The Story of Man’s Achievements says: “Zealous Christians did not serve in the armed forces or accept political offices.”
Church historian Augustus Neander reported that “the Christians were represented as men dead to the world, and useless for all affairs of life; . . . and it was asked, what would become of the business of life, if all were like them?”
“The Christians stood aloof and distinct from the state, as a priestly and spiritual race, and Christianity seemed able to influence civil life only in that manner which, it must be confessed, is the purest, by practically endeavouring to instil more and more of holy feeling into the citizens of the state.”—The History of the Christian Religion and Church, During the Three First Centuries (New York, 1848), Augustus Neander, translated from German by H. J. Rose, p. 168.So, why the change? Were the earliest Christians correct in their view of politics, or where those who came later correct?
They have less of a history because they are “no part of the world” as Jesus said his true followers would be. (John 15:17-19; John 17:14; James 4:4)
Trinitarians are a part of the world, they get involved in politics and very much engage in war.JAMES 4:4
“Adulteresses, do YOU not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God.”JOHN 17:14
“I have given your word to them, but the world has hated them, because they are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.”JOHN 15:17-19
““These things I command YOU, that YOU love one another. If the world hates YOU, YOU know that it has hated me before it hated YOU. If YOU were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because YOU are no part of the world, but I have chosen YOU out of the world, on this account the world hates YOU.”This is an ad hominem attack and is posted in the wrong area as this forum is for “Topics based on biblical scripture, teachings, or doctrine.”
Since it is obviously a joke I made fun of this thread with my previous post.
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