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Adam: Ed is a preacher with much to loose if some of his man made doctrine is distroyed. You are up against a brick wall. He has no intentions of learning only correcting others to his truth. And he loves to disrespect his opponent and degrade them by calling them various things. I have stopped communicating with Ed. I disdain disrespect. TK
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 19 2011,19:44) Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 18 2011,16:23) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 18 2011,20:39) Adam, Spirit of righteousness is the driving force of the soul. Compare it to the spirit of arogance, or rebellion, etc. Since true righteousness comes from God the spirit of true righteousness also comes from God.
The last I knew Jews teach the same. I will check though.
The spirit of man is no longer righteous as he went in search of many schemes.
That last is a paraphrase of a scripture from the Old Testiment. Do you know which one?
Can you please quote verses from O.T to support your views on Spirit of righteousness required for obedience to God's Laws?
It is my hope that you will learn to test the spirit of what you hear for yourself. Here are three scriptures from Ezekiel that speak off the spirit of righteousness.Ezekiel 11(NIV)
19 I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh. 20 Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God.
Ezekiel 18(NIV)
30 “Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!
Ezekiel 36(NIV)
24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws
The scripture I speak of in my previous post to you is from one of the books credited to King Solomon. Does that help find it?
A contract sealed with blood does require blood to seal it.
Hi brother Kerwin,
Thanks for the scriptures. I know that you will quote them from Ezekiel. But I still could not find your “spirit of righteousness” which I feel not supported by the verses you quoted. It speaks about God's renewal of human heart and spirit to follow God's Laws rather it can be called as New Covenant with people of Israel as per Jer 31. Verse Ezek 36:27 surely talks about pouring of God's spirit on people of Israel and He will cause them to observe His statutes in the end days but it doesn't nullify earlier covenant with same people of Israel. I want to ask you where is the question of Vicarious atonement here? New Covenant never talks about any vicarious atonement. 'Sealing with blood you mentioned' again I have already stated that the writer of Hebrews twisted Jer 31 to prove his ideas that the death of covenant maker is involved where God alone is the covenant maker. I don't think Jesus is God who died to seal the covenant. New Covenant is only renewal and assertion of the same Old covenant established at the time of Moses whereas Christianity misinterpreted it to say that Old is dismissed and Jesus is the end of Law of God. Don't you think that they played with God's word?Quote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 19 2011,21:40) Adam: Ed is a preacher with much to loose if some of his man made doctrine is distroyed. You are up against a brick wall. He has no intentions of learning only correcting others to his truth. And he loves to disrespect his opponent and degrade them by calling them various things. I have stopped communicating with Ed. I disdain disrespect. TK
Hi Tim,Do you consider those who disagree with you as 'opponents'?
If the entire Bible was penned by man(Psalm 68:11) and
the doctrine I get comes entirely from The Bible(2Tm.3:16),
does this mean the doctrine is then man made doctrine?(Deut.32 1-3)Prove where I have ever said anything hateful to you! (1 Thess. 5:21)
John 15:19-20 If ye(Ed J) were of the world, the world would love his own:
but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world,
therefore the world hateth you. Remember the word that I said unto you, The
servant is not greater than his Lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also
persecute you(Ed J); if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Sorry brothers Tim and Ed, please don't go into personal attacks. we are here only to debate on certain issues which are not so clear in our Bible. I think both of you are having truth in you and I am to ready look forward for that truth to learn from you.
Thanks and peace to you
AdamJeremiah 31:31,32
DOES THIS PASSAGE FORETELL THE (CHRISTIAN) NEW (Covenant)TESTAMENT?A comparison of the Christian and Jewish perspectives indicates that they cannot both be valid. Though the Jewish perspective clearly demonstrates how this messianic passage has not yet been realized, there still remains the issue of the nature of Jeremiah's (brit hadashah), a new covenant, first mentioned in Jeremiah 31:30[31], and then alluded to throughout the rest of the passage. A detailed look at the passage will help resolve this issue.
An Attempt to Reverse the Prophetic Message
In his deliberate revision of the original text of Jeremiah 31:31[32], the author of the Letter to the Hebrews had intended to solve a serious theological problem for Christianity – the prophesied eternity of the Jewish people and the Torah – he tried to reverse the Prophet's original message.
Hebrews 8:9 appears to be “quoting” Jeremiah 31:31[32]. However, checking the Hebrew text and translations of Jeremiah 31:31[32], one discovers that the phrase, , is translated in both Jewish and KJV renditions as, “for they broke my covenant, although I was a(n) husband unto them”, but is rendered in Hebrews 8:9 as, “because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not”. The highlighted phrases are obviously not congruent in their context.
The Hebrew term for the English phrase I was a husband is (ba’alti). The same conjugated verb appears once again in the Book of Jeremiah, and in the same context, at Jeremiah 3:14. The Hebrew root verb (ba'al) is most commonly applied throughout the Hebrew Bible in the context of being espoused. Of its 16 occurrences, in 11 cases (ba'al) refers to espousal, in one case it is used in a metaphorical sense, and in the remaining four cases it is used in the context of being a master over someone or something. A Hebrew noun derived from this verb is (ba'al), which can mean a husband (either married or betrothed) or a master and, in various combinations with other terms, it is used to describe someone who possesses certain attributes, qualities, or skills. As it concerns the verb (ba'al) in the context of espousal or mastership, it should be rather obvious that disregarding someone, as Hebrews 8:9 has it, is the antithesis of being a husband or master of someone, as Jeremiah 31:31[32] has it.
Another interesting aspect of the attempt at Hebrew Bible revisionism by the author of the Letter to the Hebrews is that he actually ends up contradicting one of the main messages conveyed in the Gospels – that Jesus did not come to change The Law but to fulfill it:
Matthew 5:17-19(KJV) – (17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Perhaps the editing by the author of the Letter to the Hebrews was not done as carefully as initially stated.
Is the New Covenant A New Torah/Law?
What is a covenant anyway? The American Heritage Dictionary, p. 334, Second College Edition, Houghton Mifflin Company (1991), defines covenant (the noun) as follows:
covenant n. 1. A binding agreement made between two or more persons or parties; compact. 2. Law. a. A formal sealed agreement or contract. b. A suit to recover damages for violation of such a contract.
In other words, a covenant is a contractual agreement between two parties. Concerning the case in point here, the covenant is merely the agreement made by the Children of Israel to accept and obey the Torah in return for the promises made by G-d.
The opening promise to Israel is made just before the revelation at Mount Sinai:
Exodus 19:5 – And now, if you will obey Me and keep My covenant, you shall be to Me a treasure out of all peoples, for Mine is the entire earth.
The terms of the contract consist of blessings (rewards) that would accrue by obedience and warnings and curses (consequences) that would result from disobedience. Detailed blessings in the wake of obedience are found in Leviticus 26:3-13, in Deuteronomy 11:13-25, and in Deuteronomy 28:1-14. The wages of disobedience are detailed in Leviticus 26:14-39, and again in Deuteronomy 28:15-68.
Exodus 24:3-4,7 – (3) And Moses came and told the people all the words of the L-rd and all the ordinances, and all the people answered in unison and said, “All the words that the L-rd has spoken we will do.” (4) And Moses wrote all the words of the L-rd, and he arose early in the morning and built an altar at the foot of the mountain and twelve monuments for the twelve tribes of Israel.
(7) And he [Moses] took the Book of the Covenant [ (sefer ha'brit)] and read it for the people to hear, and they said, “All that the L-rd spoke we will do and we will hear.”It is important to recognize that the covenant is the contractual agreement to obey the Torah and is not the Torah itself. The Torah contains the commandments that are to be obeyed, and that is why it is referred to as (sefer ha'brit), Book of the Covenant. Thus, breaking the agreement by Israel does not change or invalidate the Torah! This is an important point to remember.
The fact that this (brit hadashah), a new covenant, will not replace the Torah is emphasized by Jeremiah himself:
Jeremiah 31:32 – “For this is the covenant that I shall form with the House of Israel after those days,” says the L-rd, “I will place My Torah [ (torati)] within them, and I will inscribe it upon their heart; and I will be their G-d and they shall be a people for Me.”
The Hebrew term (torah) is used in the Hebrew Bible in two general contexts. First, it could refer to rules, doctrines, or other instructions for behavior, i.e., laws, statutes, and ordinances. Second, it could refer to the Mosaic Law, which is commonly referred to as the Torah.
The context of the Hebrew term (torati), My Torah, is unambiguous – it refers to the Torah. This is supported by the way Jeremiah uses the root noun (torah) throughout his Book, in which the noun appears on 11 occasions in various forms. The remaining ten instances of (torah) in the Book of Jeremiah are at Jeremiah 2:8, 6:19, 8:8, 9:12/[13], 16:11, 18:18, 26:4, 32:23, 44:10,23. In all ten cases the application is in the context of the Torah, as is the case in point, at Jeremiah 31:32[33]. It is interesting to note that even the KJV translators render all 11 instances as the/my/his law, as appropriate in the individual passages, clearly indicating this is The Law, a term commonly applied by New Testament authors as a reference to the Mosaic Law, i.e., the Torah.
Sidebar note: Jeremiah 31:32[33] would have been the ideal place for G-d to let us know, through the Prophet, that this new covenant will be a new Torah. All that would have had to be said is (torah hadashah), a new Torah, or (torati ha'hadashah), My new Torah, instead of (torati), My Torah, and the deed would have been accomplished.
The New Covenant vs. the Original Sinai Covenant
In Jeremiah 31:31[32], the Prophet declares the new covenant to be:
Not like the covenant that I formed with their forefathers on the day I took them by the hand to take them out of the land of Egypt, for they broke My covenant,…
How will this new covenant differ from the original Sinai covenant? The only difference between the two covenants is in where (sefer ha'brit), the Book of the Covenant resides. In the original Sinai covenant, it was placed in the mouths of the Israelites:
Exodus 13:9 – And it shall be to you for a sign upon your han
d, and for a memorial between your eyes, in order that the Torah of the L-rd shall be in your mouth; for with a mighty hand has the L-rd brought you out of Egypt.And the contract was verbally agreed to, as was seen from Exodus 24:3,7. On the other hand, according to Jeremiah 31:32[33], G-d says, “… I will place My Torah within them and I will inscribe it upon their heart …”; the new covenant will be placed within the people. In other words, this new covenant will simply be an integral part of the people of Israel and, thus, will become just part of the Jewish way of life.
The Everlasting Sinai Covenant
Christian apologists and missionaries often use the phrase, “… for they broke My covenant …”, found in Jeremiah 31:32[33], to support their claim that the original Sinai covenant is no longer in force. After all, they claim, it is stated very clearly here that Israel broke the contract, and thus, the New Testament is the new covenant prophesied by Jeremiah, and it replaces the “Old Covenant/Testament”. Is this claim valid?
Evidently, those who make that claim do not understand the difference between the covenant and the Book of the Covenant, as was explained in Sec. IV.B&C above. The Hebrew Bible teaches that, although the people of Israel often fell short of fulfilling their end of the agreement made at Mount Sinai and, in effect, broke the covenant, G-d has stated on many occasions that He will not break His covenant with Israel:
Leviticus 26:44-45 – (44) And despite all this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not despise them nor will I reject them to annihilate them, thereby breaking My covenant with them; for I am the L-rd their G-d. (45) And I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt before the eyes of the nations, to be a G-d to them; I am the L-rd.
Judges 2:1 – And an angel of the L-rd came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said [in G-d's name], “I will bring you up from Egypt, and I have brought you to the land which I swore to your forefathers, and I said, 'I will never break My covenant with you.'”
Ezekiel 16:59-60 – (59) For thus said the L-rd G-d [to Jerusalem]: “I have done with you in accordance to that which you have done, that you have despised an oath in breaking a covenant. (60) Nevertheless I will remember My covenant with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish with you an everlasting covenant.
Psalms 105:8-10 – (8) He has remembered His covenant forever, the word which He commanded to a thousand generations. (9) That which He had made with Abraham, and His oath to Isaac; (10) And He established it for Jacob as a law, and for Israel as an everlasting covenant;
There is no argument about the fact that Israel has strayed from the path many times since the promise was made at Mount Sinai, and for which Israel has suffered the consequences. Yet, the Hebrew Bible clearly shows that G-d will neither break that covenant nor replace the Torah – The Torah is eternal.
Given the evidence presented from the Hebrew Bible, the response to the question asked in the title of this section, “Does This Passage Foretell the (Christian) New Testament?”, is that the claim made by Christian apologists and missionaries cannot be supported with any other Scriptures from within the Hebrew Bible. Quite to the contrary, the Hebrew Bible establishes the eternity of both the covenant and the Torah.
Link: http://www.messiahtruth.com/jer31.htmlQuote (gollamudi @ Jan. 20 2011,00:19) Jeremiah 31:31,32
DOES THIS PASSAGE FORETELL THE (CHRISTIAN) NEW (Covenant)TESTAMENT?
Hi Adam,Why yes it does! Notice the similarity between the wording in Jer.31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:8-13?
Jer.31:31-34 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant(Testament)
with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made
with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;
which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this
shall be the covenant(Testament) that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days,
saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be
their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor,
and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least
of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will
remember their sin no more. (because of Christs vicarious atonement; See Gen. 22:2-14).Hebrews 8:8-13 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not
according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the
hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and
I regarded them not, saith the LORD. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house
of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in
their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not
teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for all shall
know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and
their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he
hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHere is another full clarification on Jer 31:31,32
“Jer 31:32
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD “
The Church uses these verses, along with the writings of Paul in Hebrews, to show that the old covenant no longer applies and therefore a new one was made in Jeremiah 31. Here's what Paul says in his epistle to the Hebrews:
In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13)
In short, the New Testament writer pronounces that the covenant God made with the Jewish people has expired. The Jewish people no longer have to keep the commandments of the Torah.
But remember, the covenant is a promise made between TWO parties. The Jewish people make a promise; G-d also makes a promise. The Jewish people break a promise – BUT G-D DOESN'T. Look at what He says in Jer 3:
They say, “If a man divorces his wife, and she goes from him and becomes another man's, may he return to her again?” Would not that land be greatly polluted? But you have played the harlot with many lovers; “Yet return to Me,” says the Lord. (Jeremiah 3:1)
“Return, O backsliding children,” says the Lord, “for I am married to you. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion.” (Jeremiah 3:14)
So – G-d is not a man, and He will not behave the way a person would towards an unfaithful wife or a disobedient child. We are expressly told that.
The New Testament has misapplied and altered Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then grasp the prophet's message in these four well-known verses.
Christians argue that Jeremiah 31:31-34 is a prophecy of an event that occurred 2,000 years ago with Jesus' death on the cross. They insist that this is the new covenant that replaced the old and decaying Mosaic covenant made with Israel.
This Christian rendering of Jeremiah's prophecy of a “new covenant,” however, is an extraordinary reconstruction of the prophet's own words. Jeremiah 31:31-34 is not a prophecy that occurred 2,000 years ago, or any time in the past. Rather, it is a prophecy that will be fulfilled in the future messianic age.
The fact that Jeremiah 31:31-34 begins with the prophet addressing both the “House of Israel and the House of Judah” clearly indicates that Jeremiah is speaking to a restored and fully ingathered Jewish people. This, however, was not at all the case at the time when Christians claim the new covenant was fulfilled in Jesus' death . . . quite the contrary. During the Christian century there was no House of Israel in existence because Assyria had exiled the Kingdom of Israel more than 700 years earlier (approx. 732 B.C.E.). Moreover, in the first century the Jewish people were spread throughout the Roman Empire and beyond. Thus, even the “House of Judah” was not all in the Promised Land during the Christian century.
In short, the era of the new covenant has not yet arrived. Rather, Jeremiah's prophecy addresses a future messianic age when the entire Jewish people — both Judah and Israel — will be restored together in their rightful place, the land of Israel (Ezekiel 37:15-22). In contrast, there had been no time in history when the Jewish people were more fractured and dispersed than during the Christian century when, according to the author of Hebrews, Jeremiah's prophecy of a new covenant was supposedly fulfilled.
Moreover, a cursory reading of verse 31:34 further confirms that Jeremiah's prophecy is not speaking of a Christian cross 2,000 years ago but rather a restored Jewish people in the future messianic era. Missionaries often overlook verse 34 and emphasize only 31:31-33 when quoting Jeremiah's declaration of a new covenant. This oversight has proved to be devastating to their understanding of this prophecy because verse 31:34 sheds much light on this new covenant era. Jeremiah 31:34 reads,
No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, “Know the Lord,” for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord; for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.
The above verse reveals that the age of the new covenant will be realized during an epoch of the universal knowledge of God. It will occur when no one will have to teach his neighbor about God, “for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them . . . .” Did this occur at the time of the Christian century nearly 2,000 years ago, or at any time since? Does every human being “know the Lord”? This is hardly the case. The church is spending many hundreds of millions of dollars annually in order to convert masses worldwide to Christianity. There are roughly one billion Moslems and Hindus in the world today who, according to Christian teachings, do not know the Lord; and there are an untold number of atheists throughout the globe who certainly do not know the Lord. Has Jeremiah's prophecy of a “new covenant” yet been fulfilled by anyone's standards? Are we living in a time when each and every person “knows the Lord”? Certainly not.
The Hebrew word bris (covenant) in Jeremiah 31:31 does not mean a Bible or refer to a new salvation program or Torah. The word bris always refers to a promise or a contract. This covenant was made with the Jewish people while they were still in the desert before they were brought into the Promised Land.
In the 28th and 29th chapters of Deuteronomy, Moses told the children of Israel that if they remained faithful to God in the land they were about to enter then the Almighty would bestow upon them manifold blessings and they would flourish in the Holy Land. On the other hand, if they backslid and turned away from the Lord, they would be driven out of Israel into a bitter exile in the land of their enemies. We are all familiar with the events that followed when the Jewish people broke their side of the covenant and they were sent into diaspora.
These four verses in Jeremiah 31:31-34 are part of an ongoing theme repeated throughout the Book of Jeremiah. Jeremiah's unique literary motif is to contrast the redemption of the children of Israel from Egypt with their final redemption in the messianic age — always vividly illustrating how the latter will far outshine the former. In Jeremiah 23:7-8, the prophet makes this clear when he proclaims,
Therefore, behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when men shall no longer say, “As the Lord lives who brought up the people of Israel out of the land of Egypt,” but, “as the Lord lives who brought up and led the descendants of the house of Israel out of the north country and out of all the countries where He had driven them.” Then they shall dwell in their own land.
In the 31st chapter of the Book of Jeremiah, the prophet continues to contrast the exodus from Egypt with the messianic age. He therefore foretells that unlike the exodus from Egypt when the Jewish people were brought into the land of Israel only to be exiled centuries later because they broke their original covenant as a result of their faithlessness, in the messianic age, the Jewish people will enter into a “new covenant” when they will be permanently restored to their land, never to be exiled again.
As was declared by every prophet, the covenant that God has with the Jewish people is eternal. No words in the Christian Bible or interpolation of the Jewish scriptures can ever change this eternal oath. The prophet Isaiah proclaimed this vow more than 2,700 years ago,
“With a little wrath I hid My face from you for a moment; but with everlasting kindness I will have mercy on you,” says
the Lord, your Redeemer. “This is like the waters of Noah to Me; for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah would no longer cover the earth, so have I sworn that I would not be angry with you, nor rebuke you. The mountains shall depart and the hills be removed, but My kindness shall not depart from you, nor shall My covenant of peace be removed,” says the Lord, Who has mercy on you. (Isaiah 54:8-10)Remarkably, the contorted manner in which Christians rendered Jeremiah's prophecy promulgates the precise opposite message of the prophet's original intent. Christians misconstrued Jeremiah's prophecy to be understood that God had somehow disregarded His covenant with Israel, when, in fact, the prophet's message is that God's unique covenantal relationship with the Jewish people will never be destroyed.
Moreover, in the next two verses the prophet determinedly proclaims this, pointing to the natural phenomena of the world as a witness to His eternal relationship with the children of Israel. Jeremiah 31:35-36 reads,
Thus says the Lord, Who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar– the Lord of hosts is His name: If this fixed order were ever to cease from My presence, says the Lord, then also the offspring of Israel would cease to be a nation before Me forever. Thus says the Lord: If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be explored, then I will reject all the offspring of Israel because of all they have done.
Because Jeremiah's prophecy of an eternal Jewish people presents the church with a serious theological problem, the New Testament went to great lengths to undermine it. In fact, the author of Hebrews deliberately changed the words of Jeremiah in order to reverse the prophet's original message.
In Hebrews 8:9, while quoting Jeremiah 31:32, the author changed a most crucial word in the verse. The last clause of Jeremiah 31:32 reads,
. . . My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them.
Hebrews misquoted Jeremiah's words and instead wrote,
. . . because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.”
The Hebrew word “ba'altee,” means a “husband,” not “to disregard.” This is a stunning alteration of the words of Jeremiah; to be a “husband” is the precise opposite of “disregarding” someone. How can the author of Hebrews change the word of God in order to demonstrate the superiority of Christianity over its older rival Judaism? When New Testament authors wantonly tamper with the Jewish scriptures, do they not convey the very opposite message?
Furthermore, in contrast to the message of Hebrews 8:13, the life-giving commandments of the Torah have no expiration date. Moses declared that these commandments are forever and ever.
The secret things belong unto the Lord our God; but the things that are revealed belong unto us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law. (Deuteronomy 29:28 [29:29])
The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure. They stand fast forever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness. (Psalm 111:7-8)
Moreover, the prophets foretold that the Jewish people will observe the commandments of the Torah after the messiah arrives. In fact, the Jewish scriptures prominently testify that the faithful observance of the Torah will be the emblematic feature of the messianic era.
And I shall give them one heart, and shall put a new spirit within them. And I shall take the heart of stone out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, that they may walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances, and do them. Then they will be My people, and I shall be their God. (Ezekiel 11:19-20)
My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. (Ezekiel 37:24)
And many peoples shall come, and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths,” for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. (Isaiah 2:3)
So the new covenant will be the sign of messianic times, when there will be a need for it – after everybody knows G-d, it would be silly to practice idolatry, because the truth will not be concealed any longer. It will be the covenant of forgiveness, when “the whole valley of the dead bodies and the ash and all the fields until the Kidron Valley, until the corner of the Horse Gate to the east, shall be holy to the Lord; it shall never again be uprooted or torn down forever.” (Jer 31:39).
It's like when you're on a journey, you have a set of directions that would lead you home eventually – that's the first covenant, a divine GPS, if you will. If you don't follow what the GPS says, you may never get home, or you may have to recalculate your route with a few U-turns, if you choose to go home at all, but there will always be light in the window to welcome you when and if you do arrive. And after you arrive – your GPS has faithfully brought you home, and there will be a new way of life, and that's the new covenant that Jeremiah refers to, because your journey is over, and it will now be the time to dwell in your own home, which also happens to be the House of Hashem.
May it happen speedily in our days.
Link: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Orthodox-Judaism-952/Covenant-2.htm
Adam,
You seem to be confused on what righteousness is as it is following God's Laws and therefore the spirit to follow God’s Laws is the spirit of righteousness. God goes on further to state in Ezekiel 36:27, ”And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws”. It is God’s Spirit that moves those who it dwells in to follow his decrees and be careful to keep his laws.
It is indeed to Israel and Judah that Jesus first took the teaching of the new covenant and many Jews believed and became subjects of Jesus and worshipers of God in spirit. It is those Jews who would later take the same message to the Gentiles even as foretold in Micah 4:1-3 and Isaiah 2:1-4.
I am unsure how you believe Jesus makes amends for others. Could you give me a scriptural backed argument to that effect? One makes amends for themselves though believing God that Jesus is the Anointed and thus believing all God’s promises including those related to him. Jesus did die the first death and since we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and he did not sin, he suffered the just wages of our actions and not his own. It is through his sealing of the new contract that we receive the spirit that moves us to obey all God commands just as Ezekiel stated would happen.
If one obeys all of God’s commands then he forgets the sins they have committed beforehand even as he states in Ezekiel 33:14-16 a lesson he repeats in Jeremiah 31:34 which is part of the foretelling of the coming of the new covenant. He explicitly states the new covenant is not like the old because in it he will write his law on the hearts and minds of those that believe. He does that through the spirit of holiness and thus moves them to follow his decree and be careful to keep his laws even as was foretold by Ezekiel.
New references:
Ezekiel 33(NIV)
14 And if I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ but they then turn away from their sin and do what is just and right— 15 if they give back what they took in pledge for a loan, return what they have stolen, follow the decrees that give life, and do no evil—that person will surely live; they will not die. 16 None of the sins that person has committed will be remembered against them. They have done what is just and right; they will surely live.
Jeremiah 31(NIV)
31 “The days are coming,” declares the LORD,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares the LORD.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the LORD.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the LORD.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”Micah 4(NIV)
1 In the last days
the mountain of the LORD’s temple will be established
as the highest of the mountains;
it will be exalted above the hills,
and peoples will stream to it.
2 Many nations will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
to the temple of the God of Jacob.
He will teach us his ways,
so that we may walk in his paths.”
The law will go out from Zion,
the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
3 He will judge between many peoples
and will settle disputes for strong nations far and wide.Isaiah 2(NIV)
1 This is what Isaiah son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem:
2 In the last days
the mountain of the LORD’s temple will be established
as the highest of the mountains;
it will be exalted above the hills,
and all nations will stream to it.
3 Many peoples will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
to the temple of the God of Jacob.
He will teach us his ways,
so that we may walk in his paths.”
The law will go out from Zion,
the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 He will judge between the nations
and will settle disputes for many peoples.
They will beat their swords into plowshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not take up sword against nation,
nor will they train for war anymore.Hi brother Kerwin,
I know very well the meaning of righteousness but I don't agree with your way of using 'spirit of righteousness'. Pouring of God's Spirit is for some thing more than what you are quoting here. Please read the articles I have quoted above you will notice how the writer of Hebrew twisted Hebrew scriptures to prove his ideas on New covenant. He says that the Old is obsolete and decaying in Heb 8:13. So you think that the Law of God (Torah) also become obsolete even as per Paul in Rom 10. Hebrew 7 talks about another law for this new priestly order. Where on earth he gets such strange ideas? All the scriptures you quoted above are for Jewish people pertaining to the Messianic era but not for Christian Ist century. New covenant is yet to be fulfilled in the future not past as Christianity imagines. I don't agree with your logics of sealing of new covenant with the blood of Jesus which is not supported by Hebrew bible.I am sorry
AdamAdam……….I think the question is not the righteousness contained in the LAW, because it is righteous and even Paul acknowledged that. He says the law is holy just and Good and in another place he say the Law is Spiritual , but he was carnal etc. We all concur with that i think. But the problem in the (WAYS) , one is by forced compliance Ex 20:20, through the medium of FEAR, because law is only a Law if it extracts a penalty for disobedience. The other is by way of CREATION, or Being CREATED UNTO Righteousness. One way it is impossible to keep GOD'S Commandments, the other WAY makes it all Possible to achieve them. That was all Paul's Argument was about, it never was about the righteousness of the Law but the (WAY) to that righteousness was the question, can it be achieved by the efforts of the flesh or is it achieved through the Spirit of GOD shed around in our hearts, And Adam remember not just Israel must achieve this way but the Gentiles also, because what does it say, “THE GENTILES WHO HAVE (NOT) THE LAW , BUT (DO) THE THINGS CONTAINED THEIR IN SHOW THE LAWS OF GOD WRITTEN ON THERE HEART, BY THE HAND OF GOD. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 21 2011,02:25) Adam……….I think the question is not the righteousness contained in the LAW, because it is righteous and even Paul acknowledged that. He says the law is holy just and Good and in another place he say the Law is Spiritual , but he was carnal etc. We all concur with that i think. But the problem in the (WAYS) , one is by forced compliance Ex 20:20, through the medium of FEAR, because law is only a Law if it extracts a penalty for disobedience. The other is by way of CREATION, or Being CREATED UNTO Righteousness. One way it is impossible to keep GOD'S Commandments, the other WAY makes it all Possible to achieve them. That was all Paul's Argument was about, it never was about the righteousness of the Law but the (WAY) to that righteousness was the question, can it be achieved by the efforts of the flesh or is it achieved through the Spirit of GOD shed around in our hearts, And Adam remember not just Israel must achieve this way but the Gentiles also, because what does it say, “THE GENTILES WHO HAVE (NOT) THE LAW , BUT (DO) THE THINGS CONTAINED THEIR IN SHOW THE LAWS OF GOD WRITTEN ON THERE HEART, BY THE HAND OF GOD. IMO peace and love to you and yours………………………………………..gene
Hi brother Gene,
I appreciate your post above on this thread. In fact you are right God's Laws are righteous and they are of eternal validity even as per Jesus. O.T says God's Laws are light and lamp to the soul and they are not difficult to follow as Christianity interpreted if you are having love towards God. But Christianity interpreted differently on God's Laws. Paul said Christ is the end of the Law in Rom 10 and writer of Hebrews told Old covenant and its Laws are obsolete and there is necessary for new covenant and new law as per Heb 7 and Heb 8. You talk about fear but I ask you why there was no fear for all those who obeyed God's Laws before Jesus right from Abraham, Joseph, David and Daniel?The New Covenant of Israel is entirely different from Christian New Covenant if you see the context and requirement for fulfillment of Jewish New covenant as per Jer 31. It is yet in the future where God establishes Messianic kingdom on earth when Israel and Judah come together. All these things are yet to be fulfilled for the people of Israel. Christianity misinterpreted God's kingdom as non-physical and spiritual and secret in nature which is against the prophecies of Hebrew Bible.
These are some of my arguments on New covenant. Please think over.
Love and peace to you
AdamHi Adam,
The only part of “The Law” that was done away with was the statutes contained in ordinances,
such as animal sacrifices and the sprinkling of their blood; as Jesus was the final sacrifice!Were the 10 commandments done away with? Of course NOT! (1John 2:3-4)
Deut.6:1-2 Now these are the “commandments”, the “statutes”, and the “judgments”,
which the LORD(YHVH) your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them
in the land whither ye go to possess it: That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God,
to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and
thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.The mount of transfiguration illustrates these three.
Moses: The Commandments; “10” Old & “2” New.
Elijah: The Judgments; rewards & punishments.
Jesus: The Statues; Jesus fulfilled the statues
(contained in ordinances), doing away with.
Eph.2:15: Having abolished in his flesh the enmity,
even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;
for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.
So we can see there is difference between “The Law” and ordinances!
10↔2 Has a fractal counterpart: 10 Northern tribes and 2 Southern tribes.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgAdam,
The writer of that article like the writer of Hebrews interprets scripture. How do you know the writer of that article has interpreted scripture correctly? Lets test the spirit of Hebrews using Moses and the Prophets.
One argument is:
Hebrews 9(NIV)
17 In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19 When Moses had proclaimed every command of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20 He said, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.” 21 In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. 22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
I do not remember wills being mentioned in scripture so that teaching cannot be tested against scripture. I believe is more of a mystic use of a “type” argument as a will is also a type of contract and it emphasizes Jesus death. Finer for the Jews of that time and the Gentiles they have taught but hard for us of this skeptical era to understand. But enough of that if you go on, the writer of Hebrews points out that the old covenant was sealed with blood and Mosses bears this claim out in Exodus 24:8 and thus we know the new also must be sealed with blood to be equally binding. Such a binding is appropriate for God and his word. Jesus himself made that previously made that point as written down in his biography at Matthew 26:27-29. Now the writer of Hebrews also claims that without blood there is no forgiveness and I have not tested the claim though it seems reasonable it has something to do with the proverb “the wages of sin is death”.
Another argument is:
Hebrews 8(NIV)
6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
The writer’s argument is clear here and it already supplies support from scripture so I am unsure what you are looking for. It is self evident that the Old Covenant failed to make anyone righteous for it bears witness about itself that God could find not one that was made righteous through observing it. The best one could achieve is to be like Abraham, who while living in the mortal flesh was credited with righteousness. While under the New covenant anyone who lives by the Spirit of God does not sin showing that God has written his laws on their heart and mind even as he foretold. These facts bear witness that the new is superior to the old and since the new is superior then it has rendered the old obsolete. It rendered it obsolete by fulfilling it since those who live by the spirit will do the things required by the old unlike those who lived by the old.
References:
Exodus 24:8(NIV)
Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, “This is the blood of the covenant that the LORD has made with you in accordance with all these words.”
Matthew 26(NIV)
27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”
Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 21 2011,21:25) Hi Adam, The only part of “The Law” that was done away with was the statutes contained in ordinances,
such as animal sacrifices and the sprinkling of their blood; as Jesus was the final sacrifice!Were the 10 commandments done away with? Of course NOT! (1John 2:3-4)
Deut.6:1-2 Now these are the “commandments”, the “statutes”, and the “judgments”,
which the LORD(YHVH) your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them
in the land whither ye go to possess it: That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God,
to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and
thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.The mount of transfiguration illustrates these three.
Moses: The Commandments; “10” Old & “2” New.
Elijah: The Judgments; rewards & punishments.
Jesus: The Statues; Jesus fulfilled the statues
(contained in ordinances), doing away with.
Eph.2:15: Having abolished in his flesh the enmity,
even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;
for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.
So we can see there is difference between “The Law” and ordinances!
10↔2 Has a fractal counterpart: 10 Northern tribes and 2 Southern tribes.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
But Hebrew Bible says all the Torah will be observed strictly in the Messianic kingdom as per Ezek 40-48. Even the animal sacrifices including for sin offerings will be resumed in the Messianic era as per Ezek 44:1-14;44:15-3;45:1-8;45:9-25.It is only the invention of NT writers that Jesus' death some how nullified these animal sacrifices but they ignored prophecies of Hebrew Bible for the third Temple in the Messianic kingdom.
Jesus' death could not even stop animal sacrifices in the second Temple till 70 CE. It shows his death was nothing to do with Jewish Temple. It is purely Christian idea of Vicarious atonement of Original sin and nothing else.
Please see the difference.
Peace to you
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ Jan. 21 2011,14:25) You talk about fear but I ask you why there was no fear for all those who obeyed God's Laws before Jesus right from Abraham, Joseph, David and Daniel?
ome of my arguments on New covenant. Please think over.Love and peace to you
Adam
Adam……….The “LAW” was 490 years after the Promise to Abraham we are told. GOD indeed gave commandments to all the way back to the garden of Eden, but a commandment is not a LAW, the Ten Commandments became (LAW) (forced compliance) at Mount Sinai where GOD injected great FEAR to all ISREAL as EX 20:20 Shows. at that point God's Commandments became LAW (forced compliance) With penalties of Death to a point even if you gathered wood for a fire on the sabbath you were stones to death. Paul's point has nothing to do with the law being unjust or not good at all, But as i said before he was concerned with the (WAY) they are (FULFILLED) IS IT BY THE WAY (LAW) (through forced compliance), ie “works of Law:, or by the Spirit of GOD creating the commandments (IN) us so that by this new nature we walk in aliment with all of GOS Laws and Commandments.“BRETHREN YOU HAVE NOT COME UNTO THAT MOUNTAIN TO (FEAR) AS THE DID. And again, “FOR BY WORKS OF LAW, SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED BEFORE GOD” . Another words the (WAY) LAW (forced compliance, through the medium of FEAR WORKS, But we have come through a New and LIVING Way by the Spirit of GOD Shed around in our Hearts , in such case no (LAW) of any kind is needed, we have become the LAW it is within us, not external written on tablets of STONE but written on the Tablets of Human Hearts by the hand of GOD Himself. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………Adam
Yes brother Gene the same Laws will be written on the hearts people of Israel but no different commandments as per Jer 31:31,32.
Peace and love to you
AdamAdam……….Also on the hearts of the Gentile as well as Israel, all done by the HAND of GOD, Not by the TORAH. That was Paul's ONLY point Adam.
peace and love to you Adam………………………………….gene
Adam,
I read Ezekiel 40:48 and Jeremiah 31:31-32 and do not see the Torah mentioned anywhere. What I do believe is that the word of God will be strictly adhered to and that is done by living by the Spirit. It is a Jewish teaching that the command love your neighbor as yourself is the sum of the Law and Jesus and his students also teach that. The Spirit gives a believer the ability to love as God loves.
Ezekiel was a contemporary of Jeremiah and thus prophesized previous to the building of the Second Temple. Why is it taught that Ezekiel speaks of the Third Temple and not the Second Temple?
The Samaritan Jews still sacrifice animals as their beliefs are different that the Pharisees and Sadducees on this matter. All three traditions are heretics. So, what matters what heretics do?
Writing any thing on our heats is a figure of speech; what God will do is open all of our minds, so we can understand.
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
God's covenant with his people, Israel, will be the same covenant for all people, but he will begin with Israel.
Zec 12:7 The LORD also shall “””save the tents of Judah first”””, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: “””for they shall all know me”””, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Hab 2:14 For the earth shall be “””filled with the knowledge””” of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Georg
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