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Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 17 2011,00:21) Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 16 2011,14:42) Sorry brother in fact I am not spinning rather your posts are spinning on God's blood.
Hi Adam,Scientists suggest that the “Blood” in the fetus comes from the father,
which in Jesus' case (his Father) is the “HolySpirit”! care to comment?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
I can not believe this brother Ed. This is Paganism to claim that God does have literal children. If it was so he could have become an adulterer by involving himself with another's betrothed wife.Please stop this further.
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ Feb. 17 2011,10:50) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 17 2011,00:21) Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 16 2011,14:42) Sorry brother in fact I am not spinning rather your posts are spinning on God's blood.
Hi Adam,Scientists suggest that the “Blood” in the fetus comes from the father,
which in Jesus' case (his Father) is the “HolySpirit”! care to comment?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
I can not believe this brother Ed. This is Paganism to claim that God does have literal children. If it was so he could have become an adulterer by involving himself with another's betrothed wife.Please stop this further.
Adam
Hi Adam,Who do you 'think' was Jesus' Father?
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Tim Kraft @ Feb. 17 2011,01:00) Hey Adam & all: Could someone please tell me how this “original sin” that Adam supposedly did, that was not called a sin in the story of the Garden of Eden, also made it through the flood that God used to supposedly destroy all evil from the planet earth? Sin is certainly considered evil, isn't it? So, how did sin get through the flood?
Hi Tim,If mankind made it throught the flood, then why wouldn't you think the sin we all inherited from Adam would?
Were Noah and his sons and their wives all “sinless”?
ALL have sinned, and ALL continue to fall short.
mike
Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 16 2011,11:17) That is some thing too much to agree that God has flesh and blood. I can't agree with you. 
Too, too much. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. A spirit does not have flesh and bone. God is spirit. These things we KNOW from scripture. Well…………those of us who choose to believe the scriptures know them. mike
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2011,15:23) Mike Boll, Actually, Adam is of the opinion that the words of God are in conflict with the words of Mosses and the Prophets. The question you should address is how you as a believer see things differently since Scripture cannot conflictl
It is true if one believes what God states then they must understand it correctly. Do you?
If you do then share that others may benefit. If you don't then ask, seek, and find and share with a loving spirit what you find with others that your and they may be sharpened by God.
Hi Kerwin,I pray God is keeping you healthy.
I can't possibly explain Adam's belief in Bible contradictions away. What I believe is that the NT sheds much light on the OT. Adam believes that the NT was written by men who were not inspired of God, but instead inspired by Greek philosophy and Gnostics and such.
But I will explain how I personally understand the original sin.
I believe that God created man guilt free – like the animals. Animals don't have a conscience that tells them it's wrong to take that meat away from another animal just because they can. Animals mate with whom and when they want. Animals are sin free because they don't have the mental ability to even know what a sin is.
I believe God created Adam and Eve this way. They couldn't possibly sin because they had no KNOWLEDGE of sin, or right from wrong, etc. But once they ate from the tree of KNOWLEDGE, they gained a deeper understanding of themselves, and right and wrong, etc. All of a sudden they knew they were naked, when it never crossed their minds before.
Maybe like dressing a dog up in silly outfits. That dog doesn't care because that dog doesn't know how ridiculous it looks or that it's being laughed at. But if that dog ate from the tree of Knowledge, then that dog would gain the knowledge that he looked like a fool. He would gain the knowledge that it is wrong to steal another dog's food. At that point, the dog would have the choice to NOT steal the other dog's food – or to do what comes natural and therefore SIN for the first time.
Cain wouldn't have sinned by killing Abel if Cain had not inherited that KNOWLEDGE that killing Abel was wrong, and then acting AGAINST that KNOWLEDGE anyway.
Paul says that the Law didn't keep anyone from sinning, but only let them know in which ways they WERE sinning. I believe that is the key to it. The “SIN” is brought on by the KNOWLEDGE of knowing good and evil. Before we had that KNOWLEDGE, we couldn't have been considered as “sinning”, because we knew no better – like the animals.
But since we now have all inherited that KNOWLEDGE of knowing good from evil from Adam, we now must make a conscious CHOICE many times each day whether we should follow our natural fleshly desires and SIN, or whether we should let that KNOWLEDGE we've inherited override our body's basic desire to do something that is natural, but that we now know is not right. Like taking a weaker person's food from them because we are hungry. Without that KNOWLEDGE, we would just take it and be sin free. But since we KNOW that it's wrong, if we do it anyway, we've sinned.
Make sense?
mike
Mike Boll,
I hear what you state and to my mind it makes sense though I am not sure it is scriptural. I do see where you could reach the conclusion that Adam and Eve became aware of sin from eating the fruit of the unique tree of the knowledger of good and evil.
The one thing I do not see is how the lack of knowledge whether a deed is good or evil will prevent you from doing that deed. For example if Cain murdered Able but did so without knowledge that he was doing evil he may well not be held accountable for the deed but it would still occur.
Perhaps I am not fully understanding your points.
Thank you for making them.
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 17 2011,11:34) Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 17 2011,10:50) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 17 2011,00:21) Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 16 2011,14:42) Sorry brother in fact I am not spinning rather your posts are spinning on God's blood.
Hi Adam,Scientists suggest that the “Blood” in the fetus comes from the father,
which in Jesus' case (his Father) is the “HolySpirit”! care to comment?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
I can not believe this brother Ed. This is Paganism to claim that God does have literal children. If it was so he could have become an adulterer by involving himself with another's betrothed wife.Please stop this further.
Adam
Hi Adam,Who do you 'think' was Jesus' Father?
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi brother we can't say for sure. If he was real Jewish Messiah he must had a human father since Judaism doesn't accept Virgin birth for their Messiah even I don't agree with Virgin Birth. Joseph might be his real father we don't know. But I can't accept these Pagan beliefs of Christianity which made God as literal a father of Jesus.Peace to you
AdamAdam,
It is your knowledge about God that causes you not to believe Tim's claim that Jesus is God's litteral child. Tim on the other hand seems to lack the same knowledge of God or his God is not the same God as yours.
What knowledge if any do you lack of God?
Why did God punish David's child with death for David's and Bathsheba's sin?
What does God's action in that case tell us?
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 17 2011,15:06) Adam, It is your knowledge about God that causes you not to believe Tim's claim that Jesus is God's litteral child. Tim on the other hand seems to lack the same knowledge of God or his God is not the same God as yours.
What knowledge if any do you lack of God?
Why did God punish David's child with death for David's and Bathsheba's sin?
What does God's action in that case tell us?
Hi Kerwin,Using common “Human” logic, we could say:
YHVH used the baby to “Prove” David's adultery.And after David's murder plot of Uriah the Hittite, the baby's death was…
A. An “eye for an eye” for David killing Uriah the Hittite.
B. Yet another “Shadow Picture” of Jesus dying for our sins.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (gollamudi @ Feb. 17 2011,15:05) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 17 2011,11:34) Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 17 2011,10:50) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 17 2011,00:21) Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 16 2011,14:42) Sorry brother in fact I am not spinning rather your posts are spinning on God's blood.
Hi Adam,Scientists suggest that the “Blood” in the fetus comes from the father,
which in Jesus' case (his Father) is the “HolySpirit”! care to comment?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
I can not believe this brother Ed. This is Paganism to claim that God does have literal children. If it was so he could have become an adulterer by involving himself with another's betrothed wife.Please stop this further.
Adam
Hi Adam,Who do you 'think' was Jesus' Father?
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi brother we can't say for sure. If he was real Jewish Messiah he must had a human father
since Judaism doesn't accept Virgin birth for their Messiah even
(1) I don't agree with Virgin Birth.
(2) Joseph might be his real father we don't know. But I can't accept these Pagan beliefs of Christianity which made
(3) God as literal a father of Jesus.Peace to you
Adam
Hi Adam,We either believe “God's word” or we don't!
This is the difference between us is: I do.1) Isaiah 7:14 The Lord himself shall give you a sign;
Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son,
and shall call his name Immanuel (God with us).2) Matthew 1:18,20 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise:
When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came
together (in consummation), she was found with child of the HolySpirit.
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord
appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not
to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the HolySpirit.3) Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The HolySpirit shall
come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also
that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.“YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter], and the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!YHVH(=63), from small to LARGE, is at THE CENTER of everything;
including being THEOMATICALLY tied to the center of “The Bible”(=63)Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org …(Eccl.9:12-16)PS> For more on THEOMATICS… Click Here
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 17 2011,15:06) Adam, It is your knowledge about God that causes you not to believe Tim's claim that Jesus is God's litteral child. Tim on the other hand seems to lack the same knowledge of God or his God is not the same God as yours.
What knowledge if any do you lack of God?
Why did God punish David's child with death for David's and Bathsheba's sin?
What does God's action in that case tell us?
Hi brother Kerwin,
I could not get you. So you also believe that Jesus was/is literal son of God who shared God's so called blood as our brother Ed claims here?Adam,
I like to use the scientific method with scripture and so am known to take a neutral position at times. I disagree with Tim on this for reasons him and me have previously discussed.
My purpose was to point out that in getting to know God we become more informed about what scripture is actually teaching us.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 17 2011,13:25) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Feb. 17 2011,01:00) Hey Adam & all: Could someone please tell me how this “original sin” that Adam supposedly did, that was not called a sin in the story of the Garden of Eden, also made it through the flood that God used to supposedly destroy all evil from the planet earth? Sin is certainly considered evil, isn't it? So, how did sin get through the flood?
Hi Tim,If mankind made it throught the flood, then why wouldn't you think the sin we all inherited from Adam would?
Were Noah and his sons and their wives all “sinless”?
ALL have sinned, and ALL continue to fall short.
mike
Mike: I thought the reason for the flood was to completely remove evil from the earth. Noah was considered righteous and sinless by God. Gen.6:9…Noah was a just(righteous)man, and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God…!Gen.6:5….and God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth and that every “imagination(grouping) of the thoughts” of his heart/mind was only evil continually…!
Adam had believed information apart from the tree of life. He had believed in the tree of both, good and evil. There was no evil. Only God! God is everywhere! There is no place God isn't!
God was going to destroy mankind who was full of evil thinking. But, Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. If Noah was righteous and perfect unto God so as to save mankind from destruction then how is it that we see “sin” passed down after the flood.
How do we relate the word “sin” with “evil”? Sin is an error or mistaken thought or the punishment for it!! Is a mistaken thought “evil”?
Thinking there is sin that separates man from God is sin! A mistake! Wrong thinking, nothing can separate us from God but unbelief.
And also, if sin is and “action” or something we “do” or “don't do” how do we “inherit” an action? You might follow an action but you can't inherit an action. IMO, TK
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 17 2011,19:32) Adam, I like to use the scientific method with scripture and so am known to take a neutral position at times. I disagree with Tim on this for reasons him and me have previously discussed.
My purpose was to point out that in getting to know God we become more informed about what scripture is actually teaching us.
Kerwin: I would like to clairify to you who my God is!The God I serve and love with all my heart, mind and soul is who Jesus said is the most high God.
The God I serve is long-suffering and kind. The God I serve has no envy and does not take into consideration itself. My God vaunteth not himself.
My God does not seek his own, is not easily provoked and thinketh no “evil”! My God rejoiceth not in sin but rejoiceth in truth.
The God I serve produces peace, joy, kindness, meekness, temperance, and only love. The God I serve is love. I learned this from Jesus the master prophet. Jesus said God is love.Jesus said God is light with no darkness. God has no sin or evil. Love is God and God is love according to Jesus. All are equal for love is no respecter of persons. That is the God I serve. IMO, TK
Adam said:
Quote If he was real Jewish Messiah he must had a human father since Judaism doesn't accept Virgin birth for their Messiah even I don't agree with Virgin Birth. Ed said:
Quote Hi Adam, We either believe “God's word” or we don't!
1) Isaiah 7:14 The Lord himself shall give you a sign;
Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son,
and shall call his name Immanuel (God with us).What say you, Adam? There it is in black and white from the part of the scriptures you say you DO believe.
mike
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 17 2011,15:00) Mike Boll, I hear what you state and to my mind it makes sense though I am not sure it is scriptural. I do see where you could reach the conclusion that Adam and Eve became aware of sin from eating the fruit of the unique tree of the knowledger of good and evil.
The one thing I do not see is how the lack of knowledge whether a deed is good or evil will prevent you from doing that deed. For example if Cain murdered Able but did so without knowledge that he was doing evil he may well not be held accountable for the deed but it would still occur.
Perhaps I am not fully understanding your points.
Thank you for making them.
Hi Kerwin,My point is that we couldn't sin if we didn't have the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is.
John 9:41
Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.John 15:22
If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.John 15:24
If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father.These are the teachings that I base my understanding on. Basically, if people are unaware they are sinning, it is not a sin at all. But Adam ate from the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, thereby gaining the knowledge of good and evil, and passing that knowledge on to each of us.
And if we HAVE the knowledge of what is evil, and do it anyway, it is a sin. If we didn't have that knowledge, and did something that is considered evil by those who DO have that knowledge, WE couldn't rightly be guilty of sin because WE didn't have the knowledge that what we were doing WAS a sin.
There was another scripture I know of, but can't quite put my mind around right now. I believe it is Jesus saying that those from other nations who don't know the truth remain innocent simply because they DON'T know. Maybe Ed or you or the others know of this one?
Anyway, I've felt this for a long time. Is it only in my own mind, or am I being “taught” by spirit? I can't say for sure.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Tim Kraft @ Feb. 17 2011,20:14) God was going to destroy mankind who was full of evil thinking. But, Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. If Noah was righteous and perfect unto God so as to save mankind from destruction then how is it that we see “sin” passed down after the flood.
Hi Tim,It does say that Noah was righteous and “blameless”. But I know of only one in scripture who was completely without sin………….Jesus Christ.
Job was also considered “blameless” before God, but does that mean completely sinless? I don't know.
God expressed regret at ever having created mankind in the first place. He apparently picked the best of the lot to start over from.
It's not the only time He did this or threatened to do it. He later chose Abraham out of the whole world to be the beginning of His nation.
Then he chose Moses to lead His nation from Egypt. But remember when the Israelites persuaded Aaron to make them the golden calf? God told Moses to stand clear while he wiped out all of them and started over again with Moses. (Moses was able to convince God not to do that, but God was prepared to, right?)
And even later, when His people rebelled and sinned so bad, He punished them and let them be conquered, and they were taken to other nations as slaves. Jerusalem was a desolate waste, but God ALWAYS foretold that He would let a remnant survive.
Noah was the first “remnant”, I guess.
But anyway Tim, I don't think “actions of performing sin” were literally inherited by us. Only the knowledge of what is good and what is evil. Without that knowledge, we wouldn't be able to sin any more than a cat can sin. But since we are apparently born with this knowledge of what is right and what is wrong, (we call it a “conscience”), and since we are born into natural “animalistic fleshly desires”, then unless our “conscience” can totally override our natural fleshly desires each and every time, we will undoubtedly sin.
That's how I see it anyway. Good to speak with you again. It's been a while. I trust God is blessing you abundantly?
peace and love to you and yours,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 18 2011,19:50) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Feb. 17 2011,20:14) God was going to destroy mankind who was full of evil thinking. But, Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. If Noah was righteous and perfect unto God so as to save mankind from destruction then how is it that we see “sin” passed down after the flood.
Hi Tim,It does say that Noah was righteous and “blameless”. But I know of only one in scripture who was completely without sin………….Jesus Christ.
Job was also considered “blameless” before God, but does that mean completely sinless? I don't know.
God expressed regret at ever having created mankind in the first place. He apparently picked the best of the lot to start over from.
It's not the only time He did this or threatened to do it. He later chose Abraham out of the whole world to be the beginning of His nation.
Then he chose Moses to lead His nation from Egypt. But remember when the Israelites persuaded Aaron to make them the golden calf? God told Moses to stand clear while he wiped out all of them and started over again with Moses. (Moses was able to convince God not to do that, but God was prepared to, right?)
And even later, when His people rebelled and sinned so bad, He punished them and let them be conquered, and they were taken to other nations as slaves. Jerusalem was a desolate waste, but God ALWAYS foretold that He would let a remnant survive.
Noah was the first “remnant”, I guess.
But anyway Tim, I don't think “actions of performing sin” were literally inherited by us. Only the knowledge of what is good and what is evil. Without that knowledge, we wouldn't be able to sin any more than a cat can sin. But since we are apparently born with this knowledge of what is right and what is wrong, (we call it a “conscience”), and since we are born into natural “animalistic fleshly desires”, then unless our “conscience” can totally override our natural fleshly desires each and every time, we will undoubtedly sin.
That's how I see it anyway. Good to speak with you again. It's been a while. I trust God is blessing you abundantly?
peace and love to you and yours,
mike
MikeNoah could have been righteous and blameless ,but he could not save mankind from the sin of Adam.
Adam was perfect Noah was not so he could not paid the price ,no men born as a offspring from men could do that.
it's only possible if God supply the live.
what God saw in Noah, is the will of willing to be aligned back with his creator,and so is a example for us all today.
righteous people are the ones who look to God way for salvation.from the sin of Adam,
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 18 2011,13:28) Mike Noah could have been righteous and blameless ,but he could not save mankind from the sin of Adam.
Yes Pierre,But what Tim was asking is how sin ended up in the post flood world if God supposedly destroyed all evil in the flood.
I was telling him that Noah could not have been completely sinless, since he too inherited sin from his father Adam.
Righteous, yes. Completely sinless? Impossible if you believe Romans 5.
mike
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