Myth of original sin vicarious atonement

[kerwin]

Adam,

I likewise to not believe the first five were written by Mosses.  I tend to believe a scribe of his most likely did them, perhaps Joshua.   The books of Deuteronomy and Joshua seem to be written by the same author, which was most likely a scribe of Joshua's.   They first four books appear, to my eyes, to have different writing styles than the next two.

[Ed J]

Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 12 2011,23:42)

Hi brother Ed, Please tell us what do you want to convey from this passage about Good Samaritan?

Hi Adam,

Luke 10:30-36 as a parable: points to Jesus [†]
“crucifixion” and subsequent “Resurrection”.
Which also backs up Jesus' lineage…

What does the combination of Eph.4:6 combined with Matt.1:18, Matt.1:20 and Luke 1:35 say to you?
Matt.1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused
to Joseph, before they came (consummated) together, she was found with child of the HolySpirit.
Matt.1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto
him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife:
for that which is conceived in her is of the HolySpirit. (Son of the HolySpirit = Son of God)
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The HolySpirit shall come upon
thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that
holy thing(Jesus) which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

                        Jesus lineage explained

“Son of Man”: 25%; Mary's mother's lineage was of the tribe of Levi. (Luke 1:5, 1:36)
“Son of Man”: 25%: Mary's father's lineage was (Judah) through Nathan(son of David). (Luke 3:23-31)
“Son of God”: 50%: Jesus' Father was the “HolySpirit”; NOT Joseph! (Mathew 1:18 / Mathew 1:20 / Luke 1:35)

Birth: Jesus was 50% HolySpirit(God)(Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35), 25% Levite(Priest) and 25% Judah(King)!
Baptism by John the baptizer, Jesus was filled with the HolySpirit(God) beyond measure! (John 3:34 / John 1:14)

Here is why Jesus is called both the “Son of Man” and the “Son of God”…

                   Mother         Father
                    Mary         HolySpirit
                     50%           50%
                         \              /
                           \          /
                             Jesus
                            /        \
                          /            \        
                        /                \
              Son of Man     Son of God
             (Mark 6:3)        (Luke 1:35)

1Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, …(John 3:16)
even so in Christ shall all be made alive. (John 6:37-40)

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 12 2011,23:42)

Hi brother Ed, Please tell us what do you want to convey from this passage about Good Samaritan?

Hi Adam,

                        God's Signature
             The Bible(63) → AKJV Bible(74)

יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in English is: “Joshua”)
HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: יהוה האלהים)

And Luke 20:9-18 points to those who rejected God(HolySpirit) as sovereign;
treating shamefully YHVH' Prophets, and finally killing the “God Son”(74), Jesus(74). (Acts 20:28)

Luke 20:9-18 Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard,
and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time. And at the season he sent a servant
to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him,
and sent him away empty. And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully,
and sent him away empty. And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.
Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him
when they see him. But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir:
come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours. So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him.
What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them? He shall come and destroy these husbandmen,
and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid. And he beheld them, and said,
What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the HolySpirit hath made you
overseers, to feed the church of God, which he(HolySpirit) hath purchased with his own [God blood=74].

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[gollamudi]

Hi brother Ed,
You base your arguments on AKJV which is Trinitarian version. So as per your assumption God the Holy Spirit is having blood with which he could redeem us from original sin?

[Ed J]

Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 15 2011,22:32)

Hi brother Ed, You base your arguments on AKJV which is Trinitarian version. So as per your assumption God the Holy Spirit is having blood with which he could redeem us from original sin?

Hi Adam,

                          Is baby's blood father or mother?

Always the fathers' because the hemoglobin is in the sperm (this of course determines blood type as well)
Before we had DNA testing doctors would check the blood type of the baby to determine wether or not
the supposed father was indeed the father but it only narrowed it down because there are only 8
different blood types(1 in 8 chance) so the blood test was not nearly as conclusive as DNA
testing which can produce a 1 in several billion chance. (Hebrews 7:28 / Luke 8:11)
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100806054142AAX1yuB

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[gollamudi]

I think God is pure Spirit and no flesh and blood IMO.

[Ed J]

Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 16 2011,03:30)

I think God is pure Spirit and no flesh and blood IMO.

Hi Adam,

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou
hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that
have not seen, and yet have believed (in Christ). (Mark 8:31)

Matt.26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament,
which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood:
and I(HolySpirit) have given it to you upon the altar
to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the
[God blood=74] that maketh an atonement for the soul. (Acts 20:28)

Jesus(74) “God blood”(74) did NOT come from Adam!
1Cor.15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so
in Christ shall all be made alive.

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 06 2011,12:30)

gollamudi,Jan. wrote: Hi brother Kerwin, Tim and Georg, I appreciate your wonderful responses on this thread. In fact as a Christian I can understand all your logics on Vicarious atonement of Jesus. But I am not fully convinced on these arguments with reference to Jewish views on Original sin and Sin atonement. I liked the views of brothers Kerwin and Tim on Jesus' sacrifice resembles that of a martyr. But I still wonder how Jesus can seal the New covenant by his death. Thanks and peace to you Adam

Hi Adam,

                        God's Signature
             The Bible(63) → AKJV Bible(74)

יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in English is: “Joshua”)
HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: יהוה האלהים)

         Jesus Christ(151) is “The Testator”(151)

Hebrews 9:1618 For where a testament is, there must also
of necessity be the death of the testator. For a (Diatheke=63)
“Testament”=117 is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is
of no strength at all while “The Testator”(151) liveth. (1Tm.2:4-6)

         “HolySpirit”(151) is the “God Spirit”(117)

John 16:7: Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for
if I go not away, the [God Spirit=117] will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send
him unto you. John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat (Jesus=74)
fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much “fruit”(74).

                             “YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center Chapter],
the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org   …(Eccl.9:12-16)

[gollamudi]

That is some thing too much to agree that God has flesh and blood. I can't agree with you.

[Ed J]

Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 16 2011,11:17)

That is some thing too much to agree that God has flesh and blood. I can't agree with you.

Hi Adam,

Why are you putting 'spin' on the things I have said?
Is it so hard to believe that YHVH created Jesus blood?

Think about it?
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[gollamudi]

Sorry brother in fact I am not spinning rather your posts are spinning on God's blood.

[GeneBalthrop]

EDJ……..Adam is right GOD is not flesh and blood, He is the creator of It. It was no problem for him to create DNA in MARY to produce the Person he wanted. It say in scripture Jesus would look a certain way and this would take DNA manipulation to Perform and get that particular look he wanted Jesus to have. He was as ADAM a designed being , but that does not make him no more a son of GOD as ADAM was. According to Scripture Adam is called a Son of GOD also so does that make Him 100% God because his only Father was GOD. Your logic does not hold up brother. Jesus was a pure human being Just as we are no more and no less. IMO

peace and love………………………………………..gene

[Ed J]

Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 16 2011,14:42)

Sorry brother in fact I am not spinning rather your posts are spinning on God's blood.

Hi Adam,

Scientists suggest that the “Blood” in the fetus comes from the father,
which in Jesus' case (his Father) is the “HolySpirit”! care to comment?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 16 2011,23:55)

EDJ……..Adam is right GOD is not flesh and blood, He is the creator of It. It was no problem for him to create DNA in MARY to produce the Person he wanted. It say in scripture Jesus would look a certain way and this would take DNA manipulation to Perform and get that particular look he wanted Jesus to have. He was as ADAM a designed being , but that does not make him no more a son of GOD as ADAM was. According to Scripture Adam is called a Son of GOD also so does that make Him 100% God because his only Father was GOD. Your logic does not hold up brother. Jesus was a pure human being Just as we are no more and no less. IMO peace and love………………………………………..gene

Hi Gene,

Are you having 'trouble' understanding what I say as well?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Tim Kraft]

Hey Adam & all: Could someone please tell me how this “original sin” that Adam supposedly did, that was not called a sin in the story of the Garden of Eden, also made it through the flood that God used to supposedly destroy all evil from the planet earth? Sin is certainly considered evil, isn't it? So, how did sin get through the flood?

Also, if sin is something done against Gods will or sin is a disobedient action against God, how does a disobedient action pass from one human to another human automatically?

Also if you say sin was something done in the Garden, it was when Adam “partook of” or “accepted as truth” evil information! He was warned of God not to take it in, believe it, accept it as truth, consider it, or “EAT THE FRUIT OF THE LIE” that evil existed. There was only good/God, no evil! If he partook of the lie of evil he would die. He didn't do something as an act, or break a law, HE BELIEVED INFORMATION THAT WAS A LIE! When he believed a lie as truth he partook of evil and all the fruit therof!! Lies separate man from truth/God.

God also placed a rainbow in the sky as a reminder that he will never destroy mankind again. Not even in the mis-interpreted revelation of Jesus given to John. Blessings, TK

[Ed J]

Hi Tim,

We have been through all this before, did you forget so soon?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Tim Kraft]

If I have any interest in your opinion Ed, I will say Hey Ed! Otherwise please stay out of my business. You didn't even attempt to answer the questions. I have no desire to hear what you have to say. The others want to learn from one another. You think you know it all. You never ask questions you give your indoctrinated views and call them truth. Some is, much isn't. Your lack of questions shows your ignorance. When you see my posts, please ignore them they are not for you! Thank you, TK

[Ed J]

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Feb. 17 2011,04:54)

If I have any interest in your opinion Ed, I will say Hey Ed! Otherwise please stay out of my business. You didn't even attempt to answer the questions. I have no desire to hear what you have to say. The others want to learn from one another. You think you know it all. You never ask questions you give your indoctrinated views and call them truth. Some is, much isn't. Your lack of questions shows your ignorance. When you see my posts, please ignore them they are not for you! Thank you, TK

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Feb. 17 2011,01:00)

Hey Adam & all:

Hi Tim,

What makes you 'think' others desire what you have to say?
In case you didn't know: I'm part of “all”. And besides…
I DON'T NEED A SPECIAL INVITATION FROM YOU!!!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Feb. 17 2011,04:54)

Your lack of questions shows your ignorance.

Hi Tim,

I have asked you plenty of questions, but most of them you ignore.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[gollamudi]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 16 2011,23:55)

EDJ……..Adam is right GOD is not flesh and blood, He is the creator of It. It was no problem for him to create DNA in MARY to produce the Person he wanted. It say in scripture Jesus would look a certain way and this would take DNA manipulation to Perform and get that particular look he wanted Jesus to have. He was as ADAM a designed being , but that does not make him no more a son of GOD as ADAM was. According to Scripture Adam is called a Son of GOD also so does that make Him 100% God because his only Father was GOD. Your logic does not hold up brother. Jesus was a pure human being Just as we are no more and no less. IMO peace and love………………………………………..gene

Thank you very much brother Gene for such agreement on my post on God's blood which is another myth being assumed by brother Ed. He says that Jesus' blood came from Holy Spirit who was the father of Jesus. I don't think even Trinitarians agree with such idea. You are right in saying that God can create any human fetus without involvement of male. Jesus must had been that of God's creation in the womb of Mary just like First man (Adam) by same the God in the beginning.

Thanks and love to you
Adam

[gollamudi]

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Feb. 17 2011,01:00)

Hey Adam & all: Could someone please tell me how this “original sin” that Adam supposedly did, that was not called a sin in the story of the Garden of Eden, also made it through the flood that God used to supposedly destroy all evil from the planet earth? Sin is certainly considered evil, isn't it? So, how did sin get through the flood? Also, if sin is something done against Gods will or sin is a disobedient action against God, how does a disobedient action pass from one human to another human automatically? Also if you say sin was something done in the Garden, it was when Adam “partook of” or “accepted as truth” evil information! He was warned of God not to take it in, believe it, accept it as truth, consider it, or “EAT THE FRUIT OF THE LIE” that evil existed. There was only good/God, no evil! If he partook of the lie of evil he would die.  He didn't do something as an act, or break a law, HE BELIEVED INFORMATION THAT WAS A LIE! When he believed a lie as truth he partook of evil and all the fruit therof!! Lies separate man from truth/God. God also placed a rainbow in the sky as a reminder that he will never destroy mankind again. Not even in the mis-interpreted revelation of Jesus given to John. Blessings, TK

Hi brother Tim welcome back on this thread. This is the question I was asking here. You are right there was no Original sin for which there was necessity for vicarious atonement. I hope you will explain us better on this.

Thanks and peace to you
Adam

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