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Hi TT,
Abraham SAW the days of Jesus and was glad.
The disciples of Jesus never really died in the eyes of God.
Leave the plants of catholicism to be pulled out as nurturing them does you no good.Thinker………So when Jesus said the whole world would see the son of Man coming in the clouds with great Powers and glory , Your bible does not say that right. And when Paul said the Dead shall rise first at his coming and those who are alive and remaining will be Changed and caught up into the Air, and ever be with the Lord, that also is not in your bible. And Yes the (MAN) of SIN is a (FALSE) IMAGE of A (MAN) JESUS. But delusion prevents you from seeing that. Where is the rest of your Trinitarian support team that does not believe Jesus has returned yet. And before I call someone a HYPOCRITE I would look at my self first. IMO
gene
Thinker………So when Jesus said the whole world would see the son of Man coming in the clouds with great Powers and glory , Your bible does not say that right. And when Paul said the Dead shall rise first at his coming and those who are alive and remaining will be Changed and caught up into the Air, and ever be with the Lord, that also is not in your bible either.
And Yes the (MAN) of SIN is a (FALSE) IMAGE of A (MAN) JESUS. But delusion prevents you from seeing that. Where is the rest of your Trinitarian support team that does not believe Jesus has returned yet. And before I call someone a HYPOCRITE I would look at my self first. IMO
gene
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 21 2009,11:54) Quote (princess of the king @ Sep. 20 2009,14:11) Quote Quote
next question:the faces that are chosen for these venerated graven images, who chooses what they look like, who manufactures them?
Who cares.
you should.
But….I don't. It's really not on par with the issues we've been discussing.putting your tail between your legs and running is not the answer i thought you to give.
you bow down too, worship, venerate, pray to what you do not know nor do you care.
your queen could be portrayed as istar, shiva. the image on the cross could be ra.
can you not see there is something terribly wrong?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 22 2009,05:54) Hi TT,
Abraham SAW the days of Jesus and was glad.
The disciples of Jesus never really died in the eyes of God.
Leave the plants of catholicism to be pulled out as nurturing them does you no good.
Quote (Gene @ Sep. 22 2009,06:06) Thinker………So when Jesus said the whole world would see the son of Man coming in the clouds with great Powers and glory , Your bible does not say that right. And when Paul said the Dead shall rise first at his coming and those who are alive and remaining will be Changed and caught up into the Air, and ever be with the Lord, that also is not in your bible. And Yes the (MAN) of SIN is a (FALSE) IMAGE of A (MAN) JESUS. But delusion prevents you from seeing that. Where is the rest of your Trinitarian support team that does not believe Jesus has returned yet. And before I call someone a HYPOCRITE I would look at my self first. IMO gene
Where did I say that every eye did not see Him or that the dead did not rise? I believe it was all fulfilled. Now you say that you let words mean what they say. So how about this:Matthew 16:27-28 (King James Version):
27″For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.28Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”
Jesus was speaking to His disciples. He told them that some of them would not die until they had seen His coming. Are you going to let words mean what they say as you claim? Or will you stick with tradition?
Jesus came back in ad70 and did not destroy the trinitarian “lie.” Looks like Jesus botched the job.
thinker
Hi TT,
He came back in ad70?Georg says he came back in 1912 or so.
None have yet seen the return of the Son of God but men will.
You are deceived
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 22 2009,08:45) Hi TT,
He came back in ad70?Georg says he came back in 1912 or so.
None have yet seen the return of the Son of God but men will.
You are deceived
Really my Husband said that? Well I don't believe that at all.
The J.W. believe that Christ returned in 1914. False as far as I am concerned. Then we are in the millennium? Also false!!
IreneQuote (thethinker @ Sep. 22 2009,08:11) Quote (Gene @ Sep. 22 2009,06:06) Thinker………So when Jesus said the whole world would see the son of Man coming in the clouds with great Powers and glory , Your bible does not say that right. And when Paul said the Dead shall rise first at his coming and those who are alive and remaining will be Changed and caught up into the Air, and ever be with the Lord, that also is not in your bible. And Yes the (MAN) of SIN is a (FALSE) IMAGE of A (MAN) JESUS. But delusion prevents you from seeing that. Where is the rest of your Trinitarian support team that does not believe Jesus has returned yet. And before I call someone a HYPOCRITE I would look at my self first. IMO gene
Where did I say that every eye did not see Him or that the dead did not rise? I believe it was all fulfilled. Now you say that you let words mean what they say. So how about this:Matthew 16:27-28 (King James Version):
27″For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.28Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”
Jesus was speaking to His disciples. He told them that some of them would not die until they had seen His coming. Are you going to let words mean what they say as you claim? Or will you stick with tradition?
Jesus came back in ad70 and did not destroy the trinitarian “lie.” Looks like Jesus botched the job.
thinker
Thinker ……..You want to let words mean what the say, thats Good, Now go back and reread the statement where Jeuss said there were some standing there who would not (SEE) Death till the saw the son of Man coming , now continue reading the next day Jesus took Peter and another Apostle with Him and wen't to the MOUNT of TRAN FIGURATION, and a Cloud descended on them and there appeared Moses and Elijah, communion with Jesus right, so they really did see Jesus coming with Glory before the died did they not?. Non of that has happened yet it was Just Shown to them what was going to happen in the future.gene
Gene said:
Quote Thinker ……..You want to let words mean what the say, thats Good, Now go back and reread the statement where Jeuss said there were some standing there who would not (SEE) Death till the saw the son of Man coming , now continue reading the next day Jesus took Peter and another Apostle with Him and wen't to the MOUNT of TRAN FIGURATION, and a Cloud descended on them and there appeared Moses and Elijah, communion with Jesus right, so they really did see Jesus coming with Glory before the died did they not?. Non of that has happened yet it was Just Shown to them what was going to happen in the future. Gene,
Every eye did not see Christ's transfiguration. Come on dude!He came back in His own generation like He said. He said “this generation.” Do you let the words mean what they say? Paul said that the man of sin was a “MAN.” Yet you say that it is not a man but is the trinitarian “lie.” You do not let “man” mean what it says!
Ever since you said that trinitarians do not let words mean what they say I have been trying to get you to live up to it. So far you have not.
thinker
Hi TT,
Jesus was transfigured on the mountain with only a few disciples present.
Yet to be seen again coming on the clouds.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 22 2009,11:30) Hi TT,
Jesus was transfigured on the mountain with only a few disciples present.
Yet to be seen again coming on the clouds.
Yes Nick,
This is why the transfiguration is not His coming. Gene won't live up to his principle that we let words mean what they say. He does not let the word “man” mean what it says. It means the “trinitarian lie.” He does not let Christ's “coming” mean His coming. It means “transfiguration.”thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 22 2009,08:11) Where did I say that every eye did not see Him or that the dead did not rise? I believe it was all fulfilled. Now you say that you let words mean what they say. So how about this: Matthew 16:27-28 (King James Version):
27″For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.28Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”
Jesus was speaking to His disciples. He told them that some of them would not die until they had seen His coming. Are you going to let words mean what they say as you claim? Or will you stick with tradition?
Jesus came back in ad70 and did not destroy the trinitarian “lie.” Looks like Jesus botched the job.
thinker
Thinker,So you believe that Jesus returned to earth in A.D. 70?
Please don't say it is so.
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 19 2009,17:46) Quote (princess of the king @ Sep. 19 2009,15:30) Quote ****post it note for me:
venerate/worshipokay, a easy verse to understand……..no graven images
Actually “no graven images” is not the interpretation of the passage. Maybe if you wanted to generalize you could say “no worship of graven images”. That would be the truer meaning. If there are “no graven images”, then please explain to me the bronze serpent that Moses raised up. Please explain to me the graven image decorations for the temple of Solomon.Your fundamentalism isn't working out for you is it?
Jez,I'm waiting for an answer to this.
Quote (karmarie @ Sep. 17 2009,20:37) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 15 2009,14:44) Mystery Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots Now, what does Revelation say about the Great Whore? Look at the following verses:
“How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.”
“For of old time I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands; and thou saidst, I will not transgress; when upon every high hill and under every green tree thou wanderest, playing the harlot.”
“They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD. Lift up thine eyes unto the high places, and see where thou hast not been lien with. In the ways hast thou sat for them, as the Arabian in the wilderness; and thou hast polluted the land with thy whoredoms and with thy wickedness. Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.”
“But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was. And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so. Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them, And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.”
OK, so I tricked you. Those verses aren't from Revelation; they are Isaiah 1:21, Jeremiah 2:20, Jeremiah 3:1-3, and Ezekiel 16:15-18 respectively. And the identity of the harlot? It is Jerusalem.
And this is really what Revelation says about the Whore:
Revelation 17:15-18
And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. and the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.“Great city”? Which city is “the great city”?
Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified..Now, was Jesus Christ crucified in Rome — or in Jerusalem?
But — but — it says stuff like “jewels” and “golden cup” and “scarlet” and “purple” — that's just gotta be the “Romish Church”! Well, considering that Catholicism is the Old Covenant fulfilled, it shouldn't be too surprising to find in it liturgical colors, vestments, and implements that are partly rooted in the Old Testament (see Exodus 28). But the Jerusalem Temple is undoubtedly what Revelation is referring to, and Flavius Josephus left us writings that tell us what the Jerusalem Temple looked like at the time of its destruction by pagan Rome in A.D. 70. Here are a few tidbits:
The holiest part of the Temple:
“Its front was covered with gold all over… But that gate which was at this end of the first part of the house was, as we have already observed, all over covered with gold, as was its whole wall about it; it had also golden vines above it, from which clusters of grapes hung as tall as a man's height. But then this house… had golden doors of fifty-five cubits altitude, and sixteen in breadth; but before these doors there was a veil of equal largeness with the doors. It was a Babylonian curtain, embroidered with blue, and fine linen, and scarlet, and purple, and of a contexture that was truly wonderful.”The exterior of the Temple:
“…the outward face of the temple in its front wanted nothing that was likely to surprise either men's minds or their eyes; for it was covered all over with plates of gold of great weight, and, at the first rising of the sun, reflected back a very fiery splendor, and made those who forced themselves to look upon it to turn their eyes away, just as they would have done at the sun's own rays.”The priests' vestments:
“But that girdle that tied the garment to the breast was embroidered with five rows of various colors, of gold, and purple, and scarlet, as also of fine linen and blue, with which colors we told you before the veils of the temple were embroidered also. The like embroidery was upon the ephod; but the quantity of gold therein was greater. Its figure was that of a stomacher for the breast. There were upon it two golden buttons like small shields, which buttoned the ephod to the garment; in these buttons were enclosed two very large and very excellent sardonyxes, having the names of the tribes of that nation engraved upon them: on the other part there hung twelve stones, three in a row one way, and four in the other; a sardius, a topaz, and an emerald; a carbuncle, a jasper, and a sapphire; an agate, an amethyst, and a ligure; an onyx, a beryl, and a chrysolite; upon every one of which was again engraved one of the forementioned names of the tribes.”You can read the entire 5th Chapter of the 5th Book of Josephus' War here.
Exodus 28:36-38 tells us that the Temple High Priest was to have worn on his forehead an insignia:
“And thou shalt make a plate of pure gold, and grave upon it, like the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD. And thou shalt put it on a blue lace, that it may be upon the mitre; upon the forefront of the mitre it shall be. And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the LORD.”
But Jerusalem apostasized and failed to recognize and then killed (with Roman power) the Messiah of prophecy. St. John the Divine tells us what “the woman,” Jerusalem, came to have upon her forehead:
“And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” (Revelation 17:5)
But — but — it says something about seven mountains! Glad you noticed. Because:
*
even if “the Seven Mountains” are a reference to Rome (see “The Beasts” below) — which some of the Church Fathers, thinking of godless Rome, thought — that city, with its Caesar-gods, was thoroughly pagan at the time and certainly part of a cruel, evil empire. The Jews of Jerusalem (the Mother of Harlots) used Rome (“rides the beast”) all throughout the New Testament, using Roman power to kill the Messiah and try to destroy the People of God, the Church (see the entire Book of Acts).
*even though they're usually lumped together and “Rome” is used as shorthand for the Roman Catholic Church, even by Catholics, Vatican City is its own city state and isn't “Rome”;
*Rome isn't built on seven mountains, anyway; it's built on seven
hills, as are Constaninople, Edinburgh, San Francisco, and Cincinnati, for that matter. Mountains are big, hills are small. There are two separate words for them and Scripture is familiar with both (see Luke 3:5 and Luke 23:30). Rome's seven hills are Palatine, Aventine, Capitoline, Quarinal, Viminal, Esquiline and Caelian (hey, how come Vatican Hill is never listed?).
Jerusalem, however, is built on seven mountains: Mt. Goath, Mt. Gareb, Mt. Acra, Mt. Bezetha, Mt. Zion, Mt. Ophel, and Mt. Moriah. There are even Psalms about them, “As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever.” {Psalms 125:2)
I have to say I agree with you on this one CAAllthough the Catholic church has made mistakes, the church MAY hold alot of truths, which nobody really cares to look into. But I have been (for the past week)
http://www.marianland.com/antichrist/antichrist001.html
Note on this link the writtings further down the pageAs the early church seemed to point to Jerusalem and the recreation of the nation Isreal as being the coming Antichrist or beast, babylon, Im ATM trying to work out if
A- The church was making all this up to try and divert attention off themself,
or
B- It is true, the Beast power/ Antichrist is a restored Isreal and everyone else is decieved into believing it is the Roman Catholic Church.
One point of interest, Catholics dont hate Jesus.
Another is that the whole world will be decieved.
Cincinnati? No not here!!!! We don't have big Mountains. I totally disagree with you and the Catholic. The Catholic Church not only teaches the trinity, it also prays to the Mother of Jesus, Maria. That is an abomination to God our Heavenly Father. Only He deserves the Honor to pray to Him. Do you really believe that? No my friend, we used to belong there. Actually all our Adult lives. Until 1984. My Husband was 47 and I was 46 years old. It is so odd that I even started a Rosary Society in the Church we belonged to.
No more. We never read the Bible in those days. So sad to me now. Rethink what you said, and investigate, what the Churches doctrine are. Do you believe in a trinity? You can't prove that doctrine. And what you can't prove you should not believe in.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (thethinker @ Sep. 21 2009,19:20) Gene said: Quote Thinker ……..You want to let words mean what the say, thats Good, Now go back and reread the statement where Jeuss said there were some standing there who would not (SEE) Death till the saw the son of Man coming , now continue reading the next day Jesus took Peter and another Apostle with Him and wen't to the MOUNT of TRAN FIGURATION, and a Cloud descended on them and there appeared Moses and Elijah, communion with Jesus right, so they really did see Jesus coming with Glory before the died did they not?. Non of that has happened yet it was Just Shown to them what was going to happen in the future. Gene,
Every eye did not see Christ's transfiguration. Come on dude!He came back in His own generation like He said. He said “this generation.” Do you let the words mean what they say? Paul said that the man of sin was a “MAN.” Yet you say that it is not a man but is the trinitarian “lie.” You do not let “man” mean what it says!
Ever since you said that trinitarians do not let words mean what they say I have been trying to get you to live up to it. So far you have not.
thinker
JackGene has been propagating his grotesque Idea of the Man of Sin for a long time, and refuses to see that the text could not have been refering to a false Jesus.
So according to him it sounds like he is saying that Jesus is the man of sin!
It is a total miscarriage of the text! It’s amazing how much they try to read into a scripture to support their lying doctrines.
WJ
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 22 2009,12:03) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 22 2009,08:11) Where did I say that every eye did not see Him or that the dead did not rise? I believe it was all fulfilled. Now you say that you let words mean what they say. So how about this: Matthew 16:27-28 (King James Version):
27″For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.28Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”
Jesus was speaking to His disciples. He told them that some of them would not die until they had seen His coming. Are you going to let words mean what they say as you claim? Or will you stick with tradition?
Jesus came back in ad70 and did not destroy the trinitarian “lie.” Looks like Jesus botched the job.
thinker
Thinker,So you believe that Jesus returned to earth in A.D. 70?
Please don't say it is so.
CA,
No return of Christ to earth is taught in scripture. Paul said that Christ would descend from heaven to the air and that His saints would meet Him in the air. Jesus said that they would see the sign of the Son of Man IN HEAVEN (the sky).It was fulfilled in ad70.
thinker
WorshippingJesus said:
Quote Jack Gene has been propagating his grotesque Idea of the Man of Sin for a long time, and refuses to see that the text could not have been refering to a false Jesus.
So according to him it sounds like he is saying that Jesus is the man of sin!
It is a total miscarriage of the text! It’s amazing how much they try to read into a scripture to support their lying doctrines.
Keith,
Today Gene accused trinitarians of not letting words mean what they say. Then he says that the man of sin does not mean a “MAN.” Go figure?thinker
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 22 2009,12:06) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 19 2009,17:46) Quote (princess of the king @ Sep. 19 2009,15:30) Quote ****post it note for me:
venerate/worshipokay, a easy verse to understand……..no graven images
Actually “no graven images” is not the interpretation of the passage. Maybe if you wanted to generalize you could say “no worship of graven images”. That would be the truer meaning. If there are “no graven images”, then please explain to me the bronze serpent that Moses raised up. Please explain to me the graven image decorations for the temple of Solomon.Your fundamentalism isn't working out for you is it?
Jez,I'm waiting for an answer to this.
wolf,how long can you hold your breath?
I can only tell you wolf, that I believe Solomon heard it straight from the Father, and i don't see how a pomegranate and cherub reflect anything your faith has, maybe that is a little of the syncretism coming out in you eh?
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