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Mystery Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots
Now, what does Revelation say about the Great Whore? Look at the following verses:
“How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.”
“For of old time I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands; and thou saidst, I will not transgress; when upon every high hill and under every green tree thou wanderest, playing the harlot.”
“They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD. Lift up thine eyes unto the high places, and see where thou hast not been lien with. In the ways hast thou sat for them, as the Arabian in the wilderness; and thou hast polluted the land with thy whoredoms and with thy wickedness. Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.”
“But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was. And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so. Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them, And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.”
OK, so I tricked you. Those verses aren't from Revelation; they are Isaiah 1:21, Jeremiah 2:20, Jeremiah 3:1-3, and Ezekiel 16:15-18 respectively. And the identity of the harlot? It is Jerusalem.
And this is really what Revelation says about the Whore:
Revelation 17:15-18
And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. and the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.“Great city”? Which city is “the great city”?
Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified..Now, was Jesus Christ crucified in Rome — or in Jerusalem?
But — but — it says stuff like “jewels” and “golden cup” and “scarlet” and “purple” — that's just gotta be the “Romish Church”! Well, considering that Catholicism is the Old Covenant fulfilled, it shouldn't be too surprising to find in it liturgical colors, vestments, and implements that are partly rooted in the Old Testament (see Exodus 28). But the Jerusalem Temple is undoubtedly what Revelation is referring to, and Flavius Josephus left us writings that tell us what the Jerusalem Temple looked like at the time of its destruction by pagan Rome in A.D. 70. Here are a few tidbits:
The holiest part of the Temple:
“Its front was covered with gold all over… But that gate which was at this end of the first part of the house was, as we have already observed, all over covered with gold, as was its whole wall about it; it had also golden vines above it, from which clusters of grapes hung as tall as a man's height. But then this house… had golden doors of fifty-five cubits altitude, and sixteen in breadth; but before these doors there was a veil of equal largeness with the doors. It was a Babylonian curtain, embroidered with blue, and fine linen, and scarlet, and purple, and of a contexture that was truly wonderful.”The exterior of the Temple:
“…the outward face of the temple in its front wanted nothing that was likely to surprise either men's minds or their eyes; for it was covered all over with plates of gold of great weight, and, at the first rising of the sun, reflected back a very fiery splendor, and made those who forced themselves to look upon it to turn their eyes away, just as they would have done at the sun's own rays.”The priests' vestments:
“But that girdle that tied the garment to the breast was embroidered with five rows of various colors, of gold, and purple, and scarlet, as also of fine linen and blue, with which colors we told you before the veils of the temple were embroidered also. The like embroidery was upon the ephod; but the quantity of gold therein was greater. Its figure was that of a stomacher for the breast. There were upon it two golden buttons like small shields, which buttoned the ephod to the garment; in these buttons were enclosed two very large and very excellent sardonyxes, having the names of the tribes of that nation engraved upon them: on the other part there hung twelve stones, three in a row one way, and four in the other; a sardius, a topaz, and an emerald; a carbuncle, a jasper, and a sapphire; an agate, an amethyst, and a ligure; an onyx, a beryl, and a chrysolite; upon every one of which was again engraved one of the forementioned names of the tribes.”You can read the entire 5th Chapter of the 5th Book of Josephus' War here.
Exodus 28:36-38 tells us that the Temple High Priest was to have worn on his forehead an insignia:
“And thou shalt make a plate of pure gold, and grave upon it, like the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD. And thou shalt put it on a blue lace, that it may be upon the mitre; upon the forefront of the mitre it shall be. And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the LORD.”
But Jerusalem apostasized and failed to recognize and then killed (with Roman power) the Messiah of prophecy. St. John the Divine tells us what “the woman,” Jerusalem, came to have upon her forehead:
“And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” (Revelation 17:5)
But — but — it says something about seven mountains! Glad you noticed. Because:
*
even if “the Seven Mountains” are a reference to Rome (see “The Beasts” below) — which some of the Church Fathers, thinking of godless Rome, thought — that city, with its Caesar-gods, was thoroughly pagan at the time and certainly part of a cruel, evil empire. The Jews of Jerusalem (the Mother of Harlots) used Rome (“rides the beast”) all throughout the New Testament, using Roman power to kill the Messiah and try to destroy the People of God, the Church (see the entire Book of Acts).
*
even though they're usually lumped together and “Rome” is used as shorthand for the Roman Catholic Church, even by Catholics, Vatican City is its own city state and isn't “Rome”;
*
Rome isn't built on seven mountains, anyway; it's built on seven hills, as are Constaninople, Edinburgh, San Francisco, and Cincinnati, for that matter. Mountains are big, hills are small. There are two separate words for them and Scripture is familiar with both (see Luke 3:5 and Luke 23:30). Rome's seven hills are Palatine, Aventine, Capitoline, Quarinal, Viminal, Esquiline and Caelian (hey, how come Vatican Hill is never listed?).
Jerusalem, however, is built on seven mountains: Mt. Goath, Mt. Gareb, Mt. Acra, Mt. Bezetha, Mt. Zion, Mt. Ophel, and
Mt. Moriah. There are even Psalms about them, “As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever.” {Psalms 125:2)Hi CA,
It must be a wondrous comfort to you that there are other options than the home of false religion.Ca……….The seven mountains are symbolic for the Seven Continents of the World. Where the WHORE Church HAS HER CHURCHES. And using Her influence to influence the whole world. AS History has Shown the Catholic Church has done , from many of the Emperors of ROME as well a In France , Germany, England and all European Nations , in WARS and BLOOD Shed and Murders and torching Millions of INNOCENT people< Until Napoleon Wounded its Head and broke up it's power and grip over the kings of the earth. But scripture does say the deadly wound would be healed and She would regain Her power. Is this not what the Whore is seeking to do regain Her grip over people and nations. IMO
gene
Quote (Gene @ Sep. 15 2009,16:31) Ca……….The seven mountains are symbolic for the Seven Continents of the World. Where the WHORE Church HAS HER CHURCHES. And using Her influence to influence the whole world. AS History has Shown the Catholic Church has done , from many of the Emperors of ROME as well a In France , Germany, England and all European Nations , in WARS and BLOOD Shed and Murders and torching Millions of INNOCENT people< Until Napoleon Wounded its Head and broke up it's power and grip over the kings of the earth. But scripture does say the deadly wound would be healed and She would regain Her power. Is this not what the Whore is seeking to do regain Her grip over people and nations. IMO gene
So you would see Napoleon as some sort of saint and the French Revolution as some sort of revival?Woe to them that call good evil and evil good.
Hi CA,
Exactly.
So why do you defend the appalling history of murder and torture rightly blamed on the denomination you love?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 15 2009,18:51) Hi CA,
Exactly.
Is that a yes? You do see Napoleon as a saint and the French Revolution as a revival?Hi CA,
You do rightly compare one worldly system to another.
But the body of Christ is not related to either Napoleon or the pope.Hi CA:
Quote Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
I believe that the fornication to which this refers is the false doctrines and practices of the Catholic church, fornication of the Word of God.
I agree with Gene that the 7 mountains where the Whore sitteth are the seven continents.
Quote Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
Sounds like the Catholic church to me. Calling those who don't agree with doctrines like the trinity, which is a man made doctrine based on someone's interpretation of the scriptures, heretics.
And she is the Mother of Harlots. She is the source of false doctrines that other so called Christian denominations teach.
Quote Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues Call her and her doctrines infallible, but…
Quote Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: Quote Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
Rev 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong [is] the Lord God who judgeth her.
Are you listening, He said come out of her my people that you might not be a partaker of her plagues.
Anyway, the truth will be revealed one way or the other.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Sep. 16 2009,09:49) Sounds like the Catholic church to me. Calling those who don't agree with doctrines like the trinity, which is a man made doctrine based on someone's interpretation of the scriptures, heretics.
Hi Marty,Based upon your method of interpreting Scripture, I'm not surprised. The apostles called people who disagreed with their doctrine heretics.
But I don't think you're looking for or wanting an apostolic church. I think you have by-passed the apostles and want it straight from heaven to Marty right out of the sky.
Well I've got news for you. God is Fathering a family. It's called the Church.
As for your agreement with Gene about the mountains being continents, that is telling as well.
It is sad that you can't see the Church even though it is right under your nose.
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 16 2009,09:54) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 16 2009,09:49) Sounds like the Catholic church to me. Calling those who don't agree with doctrines like the trinity, which is a man made doctrine based on someone's interpretation of the scriptures, heretics.
Hi Marty,Based upon your method of interpreting Scripture, I'm not surprised. The apostles called people who disagreed with their doctrine heretics.
But I don't think you're looking for or wanting an apostolic church. I think you have by-passed the apostles and want it straight from heaven to Marty right out of the sky.
Well I've got news for you. God is Fathering a family. It's called the Church.
As for your agreement with Gene about the mountains being continents, that is telling as well.
It is sad that you can't see the Church even though it is right under your nose.
Hi CA:The Apostles did not teach the “trinity doctrine”, and neither do the scriptures state that I have to agree with this doctrine to be saved, nor do the scriptures state that I have to believe that Mary is the last Eve and that she is my mother in order for me to be a disciple of the Lord.
I haven't bypassed the Apostles, but what I have bypassed are those who falsely claim to be Apostles.
I already showed you what the true church looks like.
And yes, I have a personal relationship with God my Father, and Jesus said:
Quote Jhn 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. Jhn 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Like you said, right out of the sky. Thank you Father for my Lord Jesus who gave his life so that I could have the priviledge and honor of being a son of the Most High God.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Sep. 16 2009,10:10) CatholicApologist,Sep. wrote:[quote=942767,Sep. 16 2009,09:49]The Apostles did not teach the “trinity doctrine”, and neither do the scriptures state that I have to agree with this doctrine to be saved, nor do the scriptures state that I have to believe that Mary is the last Eve and that she is my mother in order for me to be a disciple of the Lord.
I haven't bypassed the Apostles, but what I have bypassed are those who falsely claim to be Apostles.
I already showed you what the true church looks like.
And yes, I have a personal relationship with God my Father, and Jesus said:
Quote Jhn 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. Jhn 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Like you said, right out of the sky. Thank you Father for my Lord Jesus who gave his life so that I could have the priviledge and honor of being a son of the Most High God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Nor do the Scriptures state that everything you MUST believe is IN the Scriptures.I do disagree. The apostles did teach the “trinity” doctrine.
And you haven't shown me what the true church looks like at all. All you have done is ineffectively try to peddle your lone ranger rebel religion. The fruit stinks.
BTW, you might as well have quoted the book of Mormon as a source for authority. According to your standard of what should be Scripture, you'd get along great with those guys.
Hi CA,
You judge harshly considering you have discarded the words of God yourself in favour of those of men.Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 16 2009,11:32) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 16 2009,10:10) CatholicApologist,Sep. wrote:[quote=942767,Sep. 16 2009,09:49]The Apostles did not teach the “trinity doctrine”, and neither do the scriptures state that I have to agree with this doctrine to be saved, nor do the scriptures state that I have to believe that Mary is the last Eve and that she is my mother in order for me to be a disciple of the Lord.
I haven't bypassed the Apostles, but what I have bypassed are those who falsely claim to be Apostles.
I already showed you what the true church looks like.
And yes, I have a personal relationship with God my Father, and Jesus said:
Quote Jhn 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. Jhn 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Like you said, right out of the sky. Thank you Father for my Lord Jesus who gave his life so that I could have the priviledge and honor of being a son of the Most High God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Nor do the Scriptures state that everything you MUST believe is IN the Scriptures.I do disagree. The apostles did teach the “trinity” doctrine.
And you haven't shown me what the true church looks like at all. All you have done is ineffectively try to peddle your lone ranger rebel religion. The fruit stinks.
BTW, you might as well have quoted the book of Mormon as a source for authority. According to your standard of what should be Scripture, you'd get along great with those guys.
Hi CA:The Apostle Paul taught:
Quote Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all. Quote 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Quote 1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him. No trinity there. He also taught the the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit (1 Co 2:10-11). No third person there. Also, a thought, since Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost, was he conceived of the Third person of the trinity? Or is it written that God is his Father?
And my Lord Jesus taught:
“Blessed are you when men shall revile you and persecute you and say all manner against you falsely because you are serving me.”
The Pharisees also did not like it when Jesus told them the truth.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Sep. 16 2009,11:43) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 16 2009,11:32) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 16 2009,10:10) CatholicApologist,Sep. wrote:[quote=942767,Sep. 16 2009,09:49]The Apostles did not teach the “trinity doctrine”, and neither do the scriptures state that I have to agree with this doctrine to be saved, nor do the scriptures state that I have to believe that Mary is the last Eve and that she is my mother in order for me to be a disciple of the Lord.
I haven't bypassed the Apostles, but what I have bypassed are those who falsely claim to be Apostles.
I already showed you what the true church looks like.
And yes, I have a personal relationship with God my Father, and Jesus said:
Quote Jhn 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. Jhn 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Like you said, right out of the sky. Thank you Father for my Lord Jesus who gave his life so that I could have the priviledge and honor of being a son of the Most High God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Nor do the Scriptures state that everything you MUST believe is IN the Scriptures.I do disagree. The apostles did teach the “trinity” doctrine.
And you haven't shown me what the true church looks like at all. All you have done is ineffectively try to peddle your lone ranger rebel religion. The fruit stinks.
BTW, you might as well have quoted the book of Mormon as a source for authority. According to your standard of what should be Scripture, you'd get along great with those guys.
Hi CA:The Apostle Paul taught:
Quote Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all. Quote 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Quote 1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him. No trinity there. He also taught the the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit (1 Co 2:10-11). No third person there. Also, a thought, since Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost, was he conceived of the Third person of the trinity? Or is it written that God is his Father?
And my Lord Jesus taught:
“Blessed are you when men shall revile you and persecute you and say all manner against you falsely because you are serving me.”
The Pharisees also did not like it when Jesus told them the truth.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Why are you trying to convince me with the Bible? According to you I can just look up into the sky and ask God whether you are right.You're not.
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 16 2009,19:22) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 16 2009,11:43) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 16 2009,11:32) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 16 2009,10:10) CatholicApologist,Sep. wrote:[quote=942767,Sep. 16 2009,09:49]The Apostles did not teach the “trinity doctrine”, and neither do the scriptures state that I have to agree with this doctrine to be saved, nor do the scriptures state that I have to believe that Mary is the last Eve and that she is my mother in order for me to be a disciple of the Lord.
I haven't bypassed the Apostles, but what I have bypassed are those who falsely claim to be Apostles.
I already showed you what the true church looks like.
And yes, I have a personal relationship with God my Father, and Jesus said:
Quote Jhn 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. Jhn 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Like you said, right out of the sky. Thank you Father for my Lord Jesus who gave his life so that I could have the priviledge and honor of being a son of the Most High God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Nor do the Scriptures state that everything you MUST believe is IN the Scriptures.I do disagree. The apostles did teach the “trinity” doctrine.
And you haven't shown me what the true church looks like at all. All you have done is ineffectively try to peddle your lone ranger rebel religion. The fruit stinks.
BTW, you might as well have quoted the book of Mormon as a source for authority. According to your standard of what should be Scripture, you'd get along great with those guys.
Hi CA:The Apostle Paul taught:
Quote Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all. Quote 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Quote 1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him. No trinity there. He also taught the the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit (1 Co 2:10-11). No third person there. Also, a thought, since Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost, was he conceived of the Third person of the trinity? Or is it written that God is his Father?
And my Lord Jesus taught:
“Blessed are you when men shall revile you and persecute you and say all manner against you falsely because you are serving me.”
The Pharisees also did not like it when Jesus told them the truth.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Why are you trying to convince me with the Bible? According to you I can just look up into the sky and ask God whether you are right.You're not.
Hi CA:You will find what I teach written in the the Word of God in the bible, and if it is not written there, God did not say it.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 15 2009,18:06) Quote (Gene @ Sep. 15 2009,16:31) Ca……….The seven mountains are symbolic for the Seven Continents of the World. Where the WHORE Church HAS HER CHURCHES. And using Her influence to influence the whole world. AS History has Shown the Catholic Church has done , from many of the Emperors of ROME as well a In France , Germany, England and all European Nations , in WARS and BLOOD Shed and Murders and torching Millions of INNOCENT people< Until Napoleon Wounded its Head and broke up it's power and grip over the kings of the earth. But scripture does say the deadly wound would be healed and She would regain Her power. Is this not what the Whore is seeking to do regain Her grip over people and nations. IMO gene
So you would see Napoleon as some sort of saint and the French Revolution as some sort of revival?Woe to them that call good evil and evil good.
CA……..do you see (anywhere) I called Napoleon a Saint, Some times GOD uses EVIL to Fight EVIL, again thats the way you Trinitarians Operate you try to put word in peoples mouths. Napoleon broke the (POWER) of the Catholic Church over Kingdoms and Rulers of Nations, But they would love to have it back. He dealt the Catholic Church a deadly wound. Any good Historian can show you that from History. The Catholic church has never stopped trying to regain it Power it once had. But we can only hope GOD will never let the Happen, but revelations seem to indicate wound will heal , and once again it will rear It's ugly Head, it has already to some extent as in the case of Ireland. And making its critical pressure Known is other Latin American counties also. IMOgene
Marty
Quote (942767 @ Sep. 15 2009,17:49) And she is the Mother of Harlots. She is the source of false doctrines that other so called Christian denominations teach.
Yet you feel that you are called to be a Bishop in one of those churchs? HMMM!Quote (942767 @ Sep. 15 2009,17:49)
Are you listening, He said come out of her my people that you might not be a partaker of her plagues.
Are you sure that you are listening? If God is calling his people out of them, then how is it that you believe God is calling you into it?WJ
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 15 2009,14:44) Mystery Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots Now, what does Revelation say about the Great Whore? Look at the following verses:
“How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.”
“For of old time I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands; and thou saidst, I will not transgress; when upon every high hill and under every green tree thou wanderest, playing the harlot.”
“They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD. Lift up thine eyes unto the high places, and see where thou hast not been lien with. In the ways hast thou sat for them, as the Arabian in the wilderness; and thou hast polluted the land with thy whoredoms and with thy wickedness. Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.”
“But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was. And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so. Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them, And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.”
OK, so I tricked you. Those verses aren't from Revelation; they are Isaiah 1:21, Jeremiah 2:20, Jeremiah 3:1-3, and Ezekiel 16:15-18 respectively. And the identity of the harlot? It is Jerusalem.
And this is really what Revelation says about the Whore:
Revelation 17:15-18
And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. and the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.“Great city”? Which city is “the great city”?
Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified..Now, was Jesus Christ crucified in Rome — or in Jerusalem?
But — but — it says stuff like “jewels” and “golden cup” and “scarlet” and “purple” — that's just gotta be the “Romish Church”! Well, considering that Catholicism is the Old Covenant fulfilled, it shouldn't be too surprising to find in it liturgical colors, vestments, and implements that are partly rooted in the Old Testament (see Exodus 28). But the Jerusalem Temple is undoubtedly what Revelation is referring to, and Flavius Josephus left us writings that tell us what the Jerusalem Temple looked like at the time of its destruction by pagan Rome in A.D. 70. Here are a few tidbits:
The holiest part of the Temple:
“Its front was covered with gold all over… But that gate which was at this end of the first part of the house was, as we have already observed, all over covered with gold, as was its whole wall about it; it had also golden vines above it, from which clusters of grapes hung as tall as a man's height. But then this house… had golden doors of fifty-five cubits altitude, and sixteen in breadth; but before these doors there was a veil of equal largeness with the doors. It was a Babylonian curtain, embroidered with blue, and fine linen, and scarlet, and purple, and of a contexture that was truly wonderful.”The exterior of the Temple:
“…the outward face of the temple in its front wanted nothing that was likely to surprise either men's minds or their eyes; for it was covered all over with plates of gold of great weight, and, at the first rising of the sun, reflected back a very fiery splendor, and made those who forced themselves to look upon it to turn their eyes away, just as they would have done at the sun's own rays.”The priests' vestments:
“But that girdle that tied the garment to the breast was embroidered with five rows of various colors, of gold, and purple, and scarlet, as also of fine linen and blue, with which colors we told you before the veils of the temple were embroidered also. The like embroidery was upon the ephod; but the quantity of gold therein was greater. Its figure was that of a stomacher for the breast. There were upon it two golden buttons like small shields, which buttoned the ephod to the garment; in these buttons were enclosed two very large and very excellent sardonyxes, having the names of the tribes of that nation engraved upon them: on the other part there hung twelve stones, three in a row one way, and four in the other; a sardius, a topaz, and an emerald; a carbuncle, a jasper, and a sapphire; an agate, an amethyst, and a ligure; an onyx, a beryl, and a chrysolite; upon every one of which was again engraved one of the forementioned names of the tribes.”You can read the entire 5th Chapter of the 5th Book of Josephus' War here.
Exodus 28:36-38 tells us that the Temple High Priest was to have worn on his forehead an insignia:
“And thou shalt make a plate of pure gold, and grave upon it, like the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD. And thou shalt put it on a blue lace, that it may be upon the mitre; upon the forefront of the mitre it shall be. And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the LORD.”
But Jerusalem apostasized and failed to recognize and then killed (with Roman power) the Messiah of prophecy. St. John the Divine tells us what “the woman,” Jerusalem, came to have upon her forehead:
“And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” (Revelation 17:5)
But — but — it says something about seven mountains! Glad you noticed. Because:
*
even if “the Seven Mountains” are a reference to Rome (see “The Beasts” below) — which some of the Church Fathers, thinking of godless Rome, thought — that city, with its Caesar-gods, was thoroughly pagan at the time and certainly part of a cruel, evil empire. The Jews of Jerusalem (the Mother of Harlots) used Rome (“rides the beast”) all throughout the New Testament, using Roman power to kill the Messiah and try to destroy the People of God, the Church (see the entire Book of Acts).
*even though they're usually lumped together and “Rome” is used as shorthand for the Roman Catholic Church, even by Catholics, Vatican City is its own city state and isn't “Rome”;
*Rome isn't built on seven mountains, anyway; it's built on seven hills, as are Constaninople, Edinburgh, San Francisco, and Cincinnati, for that matter. Mountains are big, hills are small. There are two separate words for them and Scripture is familiar with both (see Luke 3:5 and Luke 2
3:30). Rome's seven hills are Palatine, Aventine, Capitoline, Quarinal, Viminal, Esquiline and Caelian (hey, how come Vatican Hill is never listed?).
Jerusalem, however, is built on seven mountains: Mt. Goath, Mt. Gareb, Mt. Acra, Mt. Bezetha, Mt. Zion, Mt. Ophel, and Mt. Moriah. There are even Psalms about them, “As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever.” {Psalms 125:2)
I have to say I agree with you on this one CAAllthough the Catholic church has made mistakes, the church MAY hold alot of truths, which nobody really cares to look into. But I have been (for the past week)
http://www.marianland.com/antichrist/antichrist001.html
Note on this link the writtings further down the pageAs the early church seemed to point to Jerusalem and the recreation of the nation Isreal as being the coming Antichrist or beast, babylon, Im ATM trying to work out if
A- The church was making all this up to try and divert attention off themself,
or
B- It is true, the Beast power/ Antichrist is a restored Isreal and everyone else is decieved into believing it is the Roman Catholic Church.
One point of interest, Catholics dont hate Jesus.
Another is that the whole world will be decieved.
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 15 2009,14:44) Mystery Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots Now, what does Revelation say about the Great Whore? Look at the following verses:
“How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.”
“For of old time I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands; and thou saidst, I will not transgress; when upon every high hill and under every green tree thou wanderest, playing the harlot.”
“They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD. Lift up thine eyes unto the high places, and see where thou hast not been lien with. In the ways hast thou sat for them, as the Arabian in the wilderness; and thou hast polluted the land with thy whoredoms and with thy wickedness. Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.”
“But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was. And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so. Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them, And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.”
OK, so I tricked you. Those verses aren't from Revelation; they are Isaiah 1:21, Jeremiah 2:20, Jeremiah 3:1-3, and Ezekiel 16:15-18 respectively. And the identity of the harlot? It is Jerusalem.
And this is really what Revelation says about the Whore:
Revelation 17:15-18
And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. and the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.“Great city”? Which city is “the great city”?
Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified..Now, was Jesus Christ crucified in Rome — or in Jerusalem?
But — but — it says stuff like “jewels” and “golden cup” and “scarlet” and “purple” — that's just gotta be the “Romish Church”! Well, considering that Catholicism is the Old Covenant fulfilled, it shouldn't be too surprising to find in it liturgical colors, vestments, and implements that are partly rooted in the Old Testament (see Exodus 28). But the Jerusalem Temple is undoubtedly what Revelation is referring to, and Flavius Josephus left us writings that tell us what the Jerusalem Temple looked like at the time of its destruction by pagan Rome in A.D. 70. Here are a few tidbits:
The holiest part of the Temple:
“Its front was covered with gold all over… But that gate which was at this end of the first part of the house was, as we have already observed, all over covered with gold, as was its whole wall about it; it had also golden vines above it, from which clusters of grapes hung as tall as a man's height. But then this house… had golden doors of fifty-five cubits altitude, and sixteen in breadth; but before these doors there was a veil of equal largeness with the doors. It was a Babylonian curtain, embroidered with blue, and fine linen, and scarlet, and purple, and of a contexture that was truly wonderful.”The exterior of the Temple:
“…the outward face of the temple in its front wanted nothing that was likely to surprise either men's minds or their eyes; for it was covered all over with plates of gold of great weight, and, at the first rising of the sun, reflected back a very fiery splendor, and made those who forced themselves to look upon it to turn their eyes away, just as they would have done at the sun's own rays.”The priests' vestments:
“But that girdle that tied the garment to the breast was embroidered with five rows of various colors, of gold, and purple, and scarlet, as also of fine linen and blue, with which colors we told you before the veils of the temple were embroidered also. The like embroidery was upon the ephod; but the quantity of gold therein was greater. Its figure was that of a stomacher for the breast. There were upon it two golden buttons like small shields, which buttoned the ephod to the garment; in these buttons were enclosed two very large and very excellent sardonyxes, having the names of the tribes of that nation engraved upon them: on the other part there hung twelve stones, three in a row one way, and four in the other; a sardius, a topaz, and an emerald; a carbuncle, a jasper, and a sapphire; an agate, an amethyst, and a ligure; an onyx, a beryl, and a chrysolite; upon every one of which was again engraved one of the forementioned names of the tribes.”You can read the entire 5th Chapter of the 5th Book of Josephus' War here.
Exodus 28:36-38 tells us that the Temple High Priest was to have worn on his forehead an insignia:
“And thou shalt make a plate of pure gold, and grave upon it, like the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD. And thou shalt put it on a blue lace, that it may be upon the mitre; upon the forefront of the mitre it shall be. And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the LORD.”
But Jerusalem apostasized and failed to recognize and then killed (with Roman power) the Messiah of prophecy. St. John the Divine tells us what “the woman,” Jerusalem, came to have upon her forehead:
“And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” (Revelation 17:5)
But — but — it says something about seven mountains! Glad you noticed. Because:
*
even if “the Seven Mountains” are a reference to Rome (see “The Beasts” below) — which some of the Church Fathers, thinking of godless Rome, thought — that city, with its Caesar-gods, was thoroughly pagan at the time and certainly part of a cruel, evil empire. The Jews of Jerusalem (the Mother of Harlots) used Rome (“rides the beast”) all throughout the New Testament, using Roman power to kill the Messiah and try to destroy the People of God, the Church (see the entire Book of Acts).
*even though they're usually lumped together and “Rome” is used as shorthand for the Roman Catholic Church, even by Catholics, Vatican City is its own city state and isn't “Rome”;
*Rome isn't built on seven mountains, anyway; it's built on seven hills, as are Constaninople, Edinburgh, San Francisco, and Cincinnati, for that matter. Mountains are big, hills are small. There are two separate words for them and Scripture is familiar with both (see Luke 3:5 and Luke 2
3:30). Rome's seven hills are Palatine, Aventine, Capitoline, Quarinal, Viminal, Esquiline and Caelian (hey, how come Vatican Hill is never listed?).
Jerusalem, however, is built on seven mountains: Mt. Goath, Mt. Gareb, Mt. Acra, Mt. Bezetha, Mt. Zion, Mt. Ophel, and Mt. Moriah. There are even Psalms about them, “As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever.” {Psalms 125:2)
While I am certainly not interested in drinking the wine and partaking in the sins of the RCC, I did find your post had some food for thought. Not agreeing with all that you wrote, but there was stuff there that I hadn't come across before.Let's for argument sake say that Jerusalem is the harlot, then that leaves the beast and his image. If the beast is Rome, then what is the image. Rome is still under suspicion and the Vatican is a state in the middle of Rome.
At least one person here has said that the Vatican is the image as it isn't Rome herself but an image of her. Others say the harlot woman is the Vatican (RCC), and still others say that the Vatican is the beast.
We do know that Israel is the woman in REVELATION 12
1. Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun,
with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.
2. Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.The 'woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head' is a clear reference to Joseph's dream (Gen 37:9) and therefore the woman represents Israel.
Genesis 37:8-9
8 His brothers said to him, “Do you intend to reign over us? Will you actually rule us?” And they hated him all the more because of his dream and what he had said.9 Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. “Listen,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.”
Also, Rome and Jerusalem are both great cities. A great city doesn't always have to be seen as the same city.
e.g., I think that New York and Sydney are both great cities.
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