My Gospel says Paul

Participant

Thanks for your replies, most things were very helpful. However for me some questions still go unanswered.

1. Is the scripture complete and in its pure original form.
2. Why do we have manuscripts that do not say the same things?
3. IF not; Has man tampered with the Scriptures in light of this?
4. Some manuscripts have full versus left out (sure it does not change the meaning but it speaks to me of a man book rather than like the 10 commandments hand written on stone and handed down from God to Moses)
5. Is it true that there other religions from around that day, in which they have God coming down in human form, dying on a tree/cross to redeem mankind and being ressurected to life, to bring us life.

In regards to Paul…

1. Why are all the accounts of his conversion experience different – either God's word is not above errors or Luke or Paul got the info wrong and canno be trusted as genuine recorders of truth? Or is there a reason for the variations in the accounts
2. The accounts of events in Paul's christain journey and when each happended are different between lukes accounts in Acts and Paul's account in Galations. Any one got any answers for me.

See my original posts…

Thanks again for all your insight on other things it has been helpful.

March 27, 2006 at 2:30 am#12039

Participant

“Thanks for your replies, most things were very helpful. However for me some questions still go unanswered”.

You will always have questions and we will never have all the answers. What we do have is called faith.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. You realy should read the chapter even if you have read it before READ IT AGAIN!

Have you ever experienced the Holy Spirit? My guess would be NO. If you have then you have fallen away.

Even if we had most of the answers there would always be doubt in your heart.
1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall “fall away from the faith”, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons,

Why do scriptures seem to contridict? It's been my experience that you haven't all the pieces to the puzzel. You can't go from “A”to “C” without going through “B”. If you do then you will never to complete the puzzel, And if you go on you make it worse. It's better to mark that scripture in your bible. Then one day when you least expect it there it is “B” the answer you were looking for. Mark that scripture and etc.
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.Why do God's children argue? Because we are all part of the body of Christ. And we too are human with faults (I speak for myself) sometimes the arm wants to see instead of letting the eye do the seeing. Funny but now the Lord shows how much we are just babes (most of, including myself). And when that happens then the body doesn't function correctly.
For me seekingtruth has been an insperation for me to return to knowing nothing but God and His will. A servant (messenger) sent from God to show me what a humble servant should be. And when the body of Christ becomes humble then and only then can He work through us and bring about is purpose. Sometimes the flesh sneeks up and desires more than I am suppose to know. For the arm cannot see no matter how much it wants too. If a brother knows more.. then just may be he is suppose too.
The Lord even sent and used you (Artizan007) to open my eyes again. To get the Spirit going again in my life. When your full of yourself then you can't hear what the spirit says. Anyone who knows the Lord knows that He is speaking to me right now in the middle of my correcting someone else. If at anytime I have said something to offend anyone please accept my God felt apology. I will leave this reply just as is; this is what God wants, Glory to His Name!!
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These questions you have are questions of faith. I'm not where you are, I believe the word of God and I know Jesus!

May be you should repent because of your unbelief. Then pray the Lord to forgive you. Then may be the Lord will answer your questions but this I know He will never answer your questions if you don't believe FIRST.

Don't know who you have been talking to may be a theologian at a collage. But whoever they are they themselves are decieved.
Those who know God worship God in Spirit not words.

March 27, 2006 at 4:45 am#12040

Participant

Thanks K,

My questions were not questions on the existence of God or if Jesus walked this earth. My faith in God is not moved, but my questioning of man is and his ways.

These questions are one's of simplicity so I thought and wondered if anyone out there had any answers to these – that was all. If not they will remain as ?'s in my bible till revelation is granted either by God or another man of God.

Just so you know there are many more ?'s in my bible, something you suggested and I have been doing. They come out of my time spent meditating on the Scriptures. I have not been speaking to any theologians on this stuff like this – I daren't because I get answers like yours. I am not trying to disprove God's existence, I am not trying to test waters of our theology, but I see things which I believe need answers.

If our faith and our scriptures are unable to be questioned and stand up to that questioning then how good is our faith. We are called to give account for what we believe. So how can you account for something you cannot understand. That reasoning seems crazy.

In a court of law, your reasoning would send you to prison. This kind of evidence would you give would convict you and acquit the guilty person. Ignorance is bliss, but again ignorance is what plunged the church into the dark ages. Fear to challenge the teachings of the day… There must be answers for God's word can not lie – and I challenge you to seek along with me to find them.

You who have both faith and Spirit enlightenment – I am interested to know how you can say I have neither faith nor have experienced the HS and yet you don't even know me nor have you asked me. It made me smile so that was good I guess. Sounds like you are jumping from A to C dont you think.

The reason I come to this forum is because I feel i can ask questions that I can't ask else where without people looking at me and saying you are back sliding or loosing your faith. I am not a know it all, I simply asked the question and you say I have fallen away… You obviously do not believe in once saved always saved… Good, neither do I and I am not falling away.

Do you think I have not been crying out to God, the God who revealed secrets to Daniel when set his face to find out what disturbed him – I obviously have seen something in the Scriptures that does not sit right within me … so your answer is – I must not question. I must blindly turn my eye from something that seems inconsitent. God gave me this mind for a reason my friend and I must keep looking.

I can't see God and yet I believe in Him, I can't see Jesus, but yet I still believe in him… why because I know they are real. Is that not blind faith… hebrews is not about faith in a Promise. I belive that promise, just not too sure right now about some of the words of Paul.

My questions are not to do with faith in God, but faith in the recordings of man. If God cannot fail or lie then there must be answers to the questions I have asked.

I still love Him, cherish His word but I am not scared to question – this is a way I find answers. This is how humanity has gone to the moon, discovered electricity, engineered the motor car – by asking the hard questions that arise. Why not question – ask and it will be given, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened. Therefore I will question and seek. May you do this too and together we will be able to bring a message that has life to a generation that is dying…

I guess I will have to put my questions back in my Bible and keep asking God to reveal his word to me in his time… but I will not stop questioning. 😉 If you find any one who is the eyes in this body or if you find anything that helps me answer these questions – feel free to let me know.

Thanks again, your response and I will set time this week to pour over Hebrews 11.

March 27, 2006 at 5:09 pm#12050

Sultan

Participant

artizan007,

Please show me where Paul said something that was contrary to Jesus. I noticed you mentioned that Paul called the Gospel “His Gospel”, but please show me where he said something that was contrary to the scriptures.

March 28, 2006 at 12:43 am#12063

Participant

Quote (Sultan @ Mar. 27 2006,17:09)

artizan007,

I agree, Paul only preached the gospel of God, which is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Paul advised us to follow him as he followed Christ. He also made the very bold claim that God was going to judge the world by Jesus Christ according to his (Paul's) gospel.

So why did Paul attach his name to it then? I know it seems an annoyance to many, but there must be a reason as to why he did so. Remember Paul was also allowed on permission from God to put his opinion into the mix on one occasion, when speaking of the value of remaining a virgin for Christ.
It is just a pity that the early church could not read, and took it as God's say so, introducing a celebate priesthood.

But back to the question I then pose, why did God allow Paul to attach his name to the gospel he taught as oulined in his epistles?

March 28, 2006 at 2:06 am#12064

Participant

Quote (Artizan007 @ Mar. 27 2006,04:45)

Thanks K,

My questions were not questions on the existence of God or if Jesus walked this earth. My faith in God is not moved, but my questioning of man is and his ways.

My questions are not to do with faith in God, but faith in the recordings of man. If God cannot fail or lie then there must be answers to the questions I have asked.

Thanks again, your response and I will set time this week to pour over Hebrews 11.

Artizan007,
I don't guess you noticed or read this weird paragraph. I had written most of the post when I started another yet brilliant idea on Why do God's children argue? While I was writing the “New” paragraph about the body of Christ the Holy Spirit paid me a visit. I had an urge to stop yet I felt compelled to keep writing. If you noticed I started another paragraph it starts explaining how a brother in this form had caught my attention and made me feel bad because he is so humble in fact more humble than any brother I have ever met! I go on to tell how my flesh sneaks up on me etc.
Please read the paragraph below and you will see what I'm trying to say. Today the Lord told me that I had “NO RIGHT” to tell anyone if they had or didn't have any faith. I am not God I don't know any persons heart like the Lord does. The paragraph below is in the middle of the post yet it was the last thing I wrote. The Holy Spirit told me to leave the post the way it was for what I don't know. When I'm told to do something I'm never told “WHY” I was to do it.
You know being chastised by God is unusual in that I was sad because I let Him down but at the same time I was happy because I knew I was His child. Oh but I do have to answer the question that I was given an answer today. Yes once saved always saved as long as you don't commit the unpardonable sin. If your saved then your one of His, and if your one of His you will always repent and return to DAD like the prodigal son.
Luk 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight: I am no more worthy to be called thy son.
Luk 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth quickly the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
Luk 15:23 and bring the fatted calf, and kill it, and let us eat, and make merry:
Luk 15:24 for this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
I don't know I probably wasn't apologetic enough please accept my apology again.
kenrch
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.Why do God's children argue? Because we are all part of the body of Christ. And we too are human with faults (I speak for myself) sometimes the arm wants to see instead of letting the eye do the seeing. Funny but now the Lord shows how much we are just babes (most of, including myself). And when that happens then the body doesn't function correctly.
For me seekingtruth has been an inspiration for me to return to knowing nothing but God and His will. A servant (messenger) sent from God to show me what a humble servant should be. And when the body of Christ becomes humble then and only then can He work through us and bring about is purpose. Sometimes the flesh sneaks up and desires more than I am suppose to know. For the arm cannot see no matter how much it wants too. If a brother knows more.. then just may be he is suppose too.
The Lord even sent and used you (Artizan007) to open my eyes again. To get the Spirit going again in my life. When your full of yourself then you can't hear what the spirit says. Anyone who knows the Lord knows that He is speaking to me right now in the middle of my correcting someone else. If at anytime I have said something to offend anyone please accept my God felt apology. I will leave this reply just as is; this is what God wants, Glory to His Name!!
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March 28, 2006 at 3:57 am#12067

Participant

Thanks K,

I appreciate your honesty and thanks for clarifying.

On the once saved always saved. I agree with this statement: I understand it to be that as long as we don't turn our back on God and say we want nothing more to do with Him there is always a door open to the Father. This turning your back on God, is that what you consider to be the unpardonable sin.

I guess I am not too sure what the unpardonable sin is… for we all sin against the HS many times in not obeying, doing things our way, speaking things in the name of the LORD that don't come from him, following our sin nature etc. I am still not too sure what this statement truly means. It seems too vague. I guess this is for another thread.

Keep searching – may his wonderful truth continue to light in your life.

A007

March 28, 2006 at 9:20 am#12073

Participant

Kenrch – you display an attitude that is wonderful to see, that of a pilgrim who is not afraid not only to keep pressing into the goodness of God, but also to be big enough to be ready to recieve correction, how and when it comes. May that be the same with all of I is my sincere hope. I believe with all my heart that if we have the Spirit of Christ ruling in our hearts then we should be able to bitterly disagree, and yet, still embrace each other as brothers. (hope you know what I mean) We should respect each other enough to allow differences and let the Spirit of supplication and grace work through our fellowship one to another around His Divine Truth.

March 28, 2006 at 11:04 pm#12081

Participant

Hi,
Paul was filled with a portion of the Spirit of Christ. Christ is undivided [1Cor 1.13].The Spirit is one and undivided [1Cor 12.13]. It works differently in the members according to the grace given but the Spirit is one.It is of God and fills the Body of Christ on earth making us all one in God, who are in Christ.
The Spirit of Christ cannot contradict Christ and neither does Paul ever do so.
If he was not working in the Spirit of Christ and led by that Spirit in all he wrote we should ignore his writings. That is not so and we should love them equally with the teachings of Jesus as he was continuing the work of God in Christ by the Spirit.
He clarifies and enlarges the meanings for us but that Spirit is never divided against itself. Just as also the prophets were used by the Spirit too in the OT.
Rev 18.10
“..Worship God; for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of Prophecy”

March 28, 2006 at 11:27 pm#12084

Participant

Quote (Artizan007 @ Mar. 28 2006,03:57)

Thanks K,

I appreciate your honesty and thanks for clarifying.

Keep searching – may his wonderful truth continue to light in your life.

A007

Hi A007,

I'm very glad you accepted my apology.

Mar 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All their sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and their blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
Mar 3:29 but whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin:

If you know God and His purpose than go against that purpose (work against God) then you have blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

Heb 6:4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

May the peace of the Holy Spirit fill your spirit.

kenrch (Kenny)

March 28, 2006 at 11:43 pm#12085

Participant

Hi Kenrch,
The parallel scripture to Mk 3 in Luke 12.10 says
“And everyone who will speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him”

This contrast can only be understood when one realises that the Spirit is the Spirit of the Living God, a greater being than the Son of Man, and not a person different to God the Father in any speculative trinity, just an amazing expression of how God does His works.

Thus also to grieve or insult or to lie to the Spirit of the Living God is to do so to God Himself Who is spirit.

March 28, 2006 at 11:58 pm#12087

Participant

Quote (malcolm ferris @ Mar. 28 2006,09:20)

malcolm ferris,

I cannot agree with “bitterly disagree” if we as brothers and sisters in the Lord don't agree then let us seek God and not our fleshly pride as I have been sometimes doing.

There are more times when I've shared somethings that were not accepted until weeks and as long as years. Just recently a brother who I worked and shared things called worked after 6 years, witnessed to other people and thanked me for pulling him out the fire. It's those seeds that are deep that take awhile but are deeply rooted and stand firm. My brother is a street preacher and has preached over most of the western United States. He shared some wonderful stories some hard and some very joyful. He told of times of great love that people gave him, giving him a hot meal and a place to stay. Some wanted him to stay and live there. But the Lord had places for him to go and he is a true and trusted servant of the Lord. My spirit leaps with joy when I speak of him even with tears like now. He is truly blessed knowing where his treasure is.

Sorry didn't mean to talk so long about that.

Anyway the Lord wants us as one. One body with many members working for the common Good of the gospel of Christ.

I don't think our father likes it when we can't speak about Him without a bitter argument. My brother I spoke about gave me a lesson a lesson of patience and knowing that if it is His word then it will NOT RETURN VOID we can do nothing.

Jam 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient over it, until it receive the early and latter rain.
Jam 5:8 Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord is at hand.
Jam 5:9 Murmur not, brethren, one against another, that ye be not judged: behold, the judge standeth before the doors.

Our God is a awesome, loving and VERY patient especially with me!

Let us be kind with the love of God,

Kenny (kenrch)

March 29, 2006 at 12:15 am#12088

Participant

Regarding this blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, you will notice that Jesus mentions it in context to their response to his ability to percieve the thoughts of their hearts. They claimed He did it by the power of the Devil. But in fact it identified not man but God at work (Heb 4:12)

March 29, 2006 at 2:22 am#12099

Participant

knerch

when I say bitterly disagree – I am just allowing for our being human. At times even the best of us can get a little heated (human weakness) especially if we have strong feelings on a subject.
What I meant was that we should be able to make allowances for that and not let grudges complicate the whole process..

Anyway – just a clarification

March 29, 2006 at 5:29 am#12103

Participant

Quote (malcolm ferris @ Mar. 28 2006,00:43)

Quote (Sultan @ Mar. 27 2006,17:09)

artizan007,

But back to the question I then pose, why did God allow Paul to attach his name to the gospel he taught as oulined in his epistles?

But back to the question then, why did God allow Paul to attach his name to the gospel he taught as oulined in his epistles?

There must be a legitimate reason for why God allowed Paul this honour.

March 29, 2006 at 5:44 am#12106

Participant

Hi Malcolm,
Is it any different to what Paul said in Gal 1.6f?
“I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what WE have preached to you, he is to be accursed. As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel different to what you received, he is to be accursed…. If I were still trying to please men I would not be a bondservant of Christ….For I would have you know brethren, that the gospel which was preached to me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ”

Paul had no doubts that the gospel he preached was pure having received it directly from Jesus, and he was determined to continue preaching it, as the precious deposit he had been personally entrusted with. It was his to guard and keep pure. It was not the only gospel going the rounds but he only could guarantee his own teaching and received the evidence in signs and wonders from God that he was doing so. He did not own it but knew it was of God.

March 29, 2006 at 7:26 am#12119

Participant

No dispute as to the origin of Paul's gospel but I was thinking more along the lines of say Moses who was credited with writing the major teaching content of the Old Testament – the Law.
Hence the words of Jesus in Luke 24:44 where He uses the term “the Law of Moses”.

March 30, 2006 at 5:52 am#12138

Participant

Looking into this a little it is not to diffucult to see that Paul is very bold in his claim to be the Apostle to the Gentiles.
As God pointed out to him in his encounter on the road to Damascus, He (God) had a work for Paul to do.

So even as the Law is commonly referred to as the Law of Moses.
Now Paul is given leave to call what God had revealed to him, Paul's gospel.

Quite clearly the Law that was given by Moses and the gospel that was given by Paul are not their own, but owe their authorship to God.

March 30, 2006 at 6:18 am#12140

Participant

true.

March 30, 2006 at 9:28 am#12142