Monotheism = Belief in Only One God

[kerwin]

Mike Boll,

In John 1:1-2 the word “Word” has a consistent meaning and so the word “Elohim” would also seem to have a consistent meaning in the statement that Johovah Elohim is the Elohim of Elohim.  I believe that meaning is congruent to “Pantheon”.

I can also see both demons and angels being considered members of the Pantheon of heaven.

I am not sure what the English definition of deity is as all the dictionary does gives examples.  I assure you that neither a demon nor an angel is comparable to God and so they are no example of God.  In fact God is their Pantheon (Deity) to either rebel against or obey as they have chosen.

I do know scripture forbids us to worship angels and thus by default demons.

Quote

Colossians 2:18 (Young's Literal Translation) 18let no one beguile you of your prize, delighting in humble-mindedness and [in] worship of the messengers, intruding into the things he hath not seen, being vainly puffed up by the mind of his flesh,

Demons can work miracles to test the heart of people so the miracle of the priests of the demons of Egypt transforming their staffs to snakes is easily explained.

Since scripture clearly calls demons gods then it seems to me that the mystery to be solved is whether demons, and by extension angels, are the same kind of beings that God is.

[SimplyForgiven]

Lol WJ,
Much love to the thread man,
It seems your driving it home

[Pastry]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 20 2011,17:53)

Lol WJ, Much love to the thread man, It seems your driving it home

How do you see that. There is only one True God, while WJ belives there are three persons in one. That is not One True God….thats three…..Peace irene

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Pastry @ May 20 2011,12:56)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 20 2011,17:53) Lol WJ, Much love to the thread man, It seems your driving it home How do you see that.  There is only one True God, while WJ belives there are three persons in one.  That is not One True God….thats three…..Peace irene

Irene,
did you change your name again?

according to the thread he is claiming this i agree with.

The Trinity however hasnt really been mentiond nor has provided claims that i disagree with.

I in the other hand would say that the Lord is One, (echad)

Define what you think trinity is???
maybe its not what you think it means.

either way, i dont believe trinity should be used as a doctrine to explain God.
It should be simple as to say that there is only ONE God. and thats it.

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Istari @ May 05 2011,02:43)

WJ, Is Jesus next to God? Does Jesus sit on a throne at the right hand of the Father? WJ, what does it mean to be 'at the right hand' of some one?

Does God have a literal right hand?

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 07 2011,20:05)

Quote (Istari @ May 07 2011,08:59) Finally, Trinitarian-wise, how does a Trinitarian claim that the HOLY SPIRIT – IS – God? Certainly, the Holy Spirit is OF/From God… Is the Angel of God – God? (How many 'Angels of God' are there?) Is the Man of God – God? (How many 'Men of God' are there?) Is the Son of God – God? (How many 'Sons of God' are there?) You figure it? Hi JA Jesus is the “Son of man” does that mean he is not “man”? Then why would you think that Jesus being the “ONLY (monogenes) Son of God” means Jesus is not God. (oops debunked!) Is the term God antithetical to God? I thought you said God is a title but it seems you are treating the title like a name. WJ

WJ,
lol i Also made that point several times…

So IF Jesus is not God than he is also not a man.

nice…

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 21 2011,02:07)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 07 2011,20:05) Quote (Istari @ May 07 2011,08:59) Finally, Trinitarian-wise, how does a Trinitarian claim that the HOLY SPIRIT – IS – God? Certainly, the Holy Spirit is OF/From God… Is the Angel of God – God? (How many 'Angels of God' are there?) Is the Man of God – God? (How many 'Men of God' are there?) Is the Son of God – God? (How many 'Sons of God' are there?) You figure it? Hi JA Jesus is the “Son of man” does that mean he is not “man”? Then why would you think that Jesus being the “ONLY (monogenes) Son of God” means Jesus is not God. (oops debunked!) Is the term God antithetical to God? I thought you said God is a title but it seems you are treating the title like a name. WJ WJ, lol i Also made that point several times… So IF Jesus is not God than he is also not a man. nice…

SF

a tittle can become your name ,many have received there name from were they lived or there trade,or some other point of reference.

Quote

So IF Jesus is not God than he is also not a man.

it is obvious you have not come to know God or his son ,there for the truth about them does not show in your speech from your heart.

Pierre

[Pastry]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 20 2011,19:01)

Quote (Pastry @ May 20 2011,12:56) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 20 2011,17:53) Lol WJ, Much love to the thread man, It seems your driving it home How do you see that.  There is only one True God, while WJ belives there are three persons in one.  That is not One True God….thats three…..Peace irene Irene, did you change your name again? according to the thread he is claiming this i agree with. The Trinity however hasnt really been mentiond nor has provided claims that i disagree with. I in the other hand would say that the Lord is One, (echad) Define what you think trinity is??? maybe its not what you think it means. either way, i dont believe trinity should be used as a doctrine to explain God. It should be simple as to say that there is only ONE God. and thats it.

Oh, I know what the trinity is.  Three persons in one…. I taught that doctrine to three of our Children.  I forgot if I taught it to our Daughter.  When She was 13 we left the Catholic Church….Yes, I had to change our users name again….. Don't ask what happened, I don't know…….Peace Irene

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (terraricca @ May 20 2011,19:31)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 21 2011,02:07) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 07 2011,20:05) Quote (Istari @ May 07 2011,08:59) Finally, Trinitarian-wise, how does a Trinitarian claim that the HOLY SPIRIT – IS – God? Certainly, the Holy Spirit is OF/From God… Is the Angel of God – God? (How many 'Angels of God' are there?) Is the Man of God – God? (How many 'Men of God' are there?) Is the Son of God – God? (How many 'Sons of God' are there?) You figure it? Hi JA Jesus is the “Son of man” does that mean he is not “man”? Then why would you think that Jesus being the “ONLY (monogenes) Son of God” means Jesus is not God. (oops debunked!) Is the term God antithetical to God? I thought you said God is a title but it seems you are treating the title like a name. WJ WJ, lol i Also made that point several times… So IF Jesus is not God than he is also not a man. nice… SF a tittle can become your name ,many have received there name from were they lived or there trade,or some other point of reference. Quote So IF Jesus is not God than he is also not a man. it is obvious you have not come to know God or his son ,there for the truth about them does not show in your speech from your heart. Pierre

pierre i could say the same thing about you.
your blind and unfortunally loves to judge and correct people without any discernment nor revelation from God.
you judge unrighteously.
dude u love it, stay away from that filth.

[SimplyForgiven]

plus the heart is wicked who can know it?

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 21 2011,15:30)

plus the heart is wicked who can know it?

SF

Quote

pierre i could say the same thing about you. your blind and unfortunally loves to judge and correct people without any discernment nor revelation from God. you judge unrighteously. dude u love it, stay away from that filth. ————– Con Mucho Amor (Romans 8:28 “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.” )

I do not like people twisting scriptures,but then I also should separate myself from all those comments who do not make sense,and in this you would be right.

so I will try not to comment to people show that they are not interested in God truth.

Pierre

PS;out of the lips comes out what is in the heart.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ May 19 2011,23:21)

In fact God is their Pantheon (Deity) to either rebel against or obey as they have chosen.

Hi Kerwin,

I don't know about “Pantheon”, which means “all gods”, and is the name of the temple of the gods that Agrippa built in 25 B.C.  But I agree that YHWH is their God, and that like us, they also have free will to serve Him or rebel against him.  

Quote (kerwin @ May 19 2011,23:21)

I do know scripture forbids us to worship angels and thus by default demons.

Scripture forbids us to worship anything or anyone except for YHWH, right?

Quote (kerwin @ May 19 2011,23:21)

Since scripture clearly calls demons gods then it seems to me that the mystery to be solved is whether demons, and by extension angels, are the same kind of beings that God is.

I highly doubt that, unless you are only talking about them all being “spirit beings”.  Only YHWH is from everlasting to everlasting.  He is the One who created the others.  So the ones He created could be much like Him, as is His Son, but I imagine there is a vast amount of differences between God and His creations.

Quote (kerwin @ May 19 2011,23:21)

Demons can work miracles to test the heart of people so the miracle of the priests of the demons of Egypt transforming their staffs to snakes is easily explained.

Okay.  But in Biblical times, a demon who could give his priest the power to turn a staff into a snake would be considered a god.  And the point I'm making about this is that all gods mentioned in scripture are not “idols” or “false gods”.  There is nothing false about a being who has the power to turn a staff into a snake.  That's very REAL stuff.

“Real” doesn't mean we should worship that god.  “Real” doesn't mean that particular god lives his life according to the will of his own God, YHWH.  But by producing living frogs out of thin air, he does qualify as a god…………..in Biblical terms.

So when Moses spoke of how God executed judgement on the gods of Egypt, he wasn't speaking of idols or false gods, but the real, powerful, living gods that the Egyptians worshipped.  And because YHWH is the God OF gods, He is the One who renders judgement on the other gods – just like Psalm 82 says.

Are you ready to post one of my other eight paragraphs and discuss it?

peace,
mike

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (terraricca @ May 21 2011,02:51)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 21 2011,15:30) plus the heart is wicked who can know it? SF Quote pierre i could say the same thing about you. your blind and unfortunally loves to judge and correct people without any discernment nor revelation from God. you judge unrighteously. dude u love it,  stay away from that filth. ————– Con Mucho Amor (Romans 8:28 “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.” ) I do not like people twisting scriptures,but then I also should separate myself from all those comments who do not make sense,and in this you would be right. so I will try not to comment to people show that they are not interested in God truth. Pierre PS;out of the lips comes out what is in the heart.

pierre come on stop playin games.
u started it, saying stupid things.

if ur going to open ur big mouth expect s slap, and than turn the cheeck for another.

come dude ur exposed of who u r.
i thought u changed but i gues u cant expect a old dog to learn new tricks

[kerwin]

Mike Boll,

What we know from scripture is that both demons and angels are called elohim.   We also know that Jehovah Elohim is the Elohim of Elohim.
 
I doubt very much that Psalms 82 is referring either to angels or demons as it is written to those under the law.   The Hebrew nations are the ones that at that time were under the law of Moses.

There are scriptures addressed to Gentile nations but in those cases it is clear they are so directed.  

Quote

Psalm 82 (Young's Literal Translation) 6I — I have said, `Gods ye [are], And sons of the Most High — all of you,

According to verse 6 it is directed to the sons of the Most High and Old Testament Scriptures call both angels and the Hebrew people the sons (children) of God. We also know from scripture that the Hebrew nation were the ones to whom the law (word of God) was given.

Quote

John 10:35 (Young's Literal Translation) 35if them he did call gods unto whom the word of God came, (and the Writing is not able to be broken,)

We also know it was not to angels and demons that he gave the law (word of God).  We also know he did not give it just to the priests or judges but instead gave it to the whole nation.

We also know that Jehovah Elohim is Elohim of all that are called Elohim.

[kerwin]

Mike Boll,

Quote

I don't know about “Pantheon”, which means “all gods”, and is the name of the temple of the gods that Agrippa built in 25 B.C.  But I agree that YHWH is their God, and that like us, they also have free will to serve Him or rebel against him.

I was using the word Pantheon to mean “all gods” as Elohim is a plural word.  It is used in singular when addressing God because he is the only deity in his Pantheon or alternatively the head of the Pantheon of the heavens and earth.   We also agree that angels and demons are free to choose between service and rebellion and YHWH is their God.

I agree there is a vast amount of difference between God and his creations the all those that are labeled angels or demons.

I also agree that we are not to worship them but instead to worship YHWH only.

I am prone to believe that in biblical times they would view those who did miracles as gods as they did with Paul and Barnabas on at least one occasion.   So if a demon enabled someone else to do miracles works and that demon was credited with doing so then it would easily be considered a god by those who witnessed the deed and others whom believed their account.

I already started a discussion of Psalms 82 though I did not post your points in regards to that passage.

[shimmer]

Hi.

Either Jesus was the one and only true God which I would accept if it was shown to me, or we accept the scripture as a child just as Jesus said, “Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven”

Scripture shows the Father and son in a simple to understand way  “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent”.

There is only one true God. It is either Jesus or it is the Father.  And the verse above shows the only true God AND Jesus Christ whom God sent.

Just my view, not really wanting to debate it.

[kerwin]

Quote (shimmer @ May 23 2011,17:23)

Hi. Either Jesus was the one and only true God which I would accept if it was shown to me, or we accept the scripture as a child just as Jesus said, “Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven” Scripture shows the Father and son in a simple to understand way  “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent”. There is only one true God. It is either Jesus or it is the Father.  And the verse above shows the only true God AND Jesus Christ whom God sent. Just my view, not really wanting to debate it.

Good point!

[shimmer]

Quote (kerwin @ May 24 2011,16:21)

Quote (shimmer @ May 23 2011,17:23) Hi. Either Jesus was the one and only true God which I would accept if it was shown to me, or we accept the scripture as a child just as Jesus said, “Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven” Scripture shows the Father and son in a simple to understand way  “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent”. There is only one true God. It is either Jesus or it is the Father.  And the verse above shows the only true God AND Jesus Christ whom God sent. Just my view, not really wanting to debate it. Good point!

Hi Kerwin, how are you? Hope your well.

[Istari]

STOP USING THE WORD 'GOD' in any other way except as a TITLE and all will become clear…

God… Means 'The most powerful one in a group of like types'.

YHVH is the GOD of all that IS for all things came from him.

There is no one else LIKE HIM… stop thinking anything of the sort – EXCEPT BY HIERACHIAL ORDER:
The Egyptian 'Gods' were not LIVING GODS but were CREATIONS of the EGYPTIANS, same as the Babylonians and the Philistines, the Greeks, the Romans, the Indians and all other nations except the HEBREWS/Jews!

Their GODSHIP is only by the BELIEF of the deluded people who desired a physical touchable viewable embodied God – which YHVH GOD proved to those nations that they were useless objects of wordship…Their power is from and through the fallen Angels led by Satan who influences the minds of the leaders of these nations who likewise influence the minds of their people.

YHVH GOD is the ONLY GOD who has REAL ACTUAL POWER – HE is the SOURCE OF ALL POWER – power by Energy – power by Energetic Thought – Spiritual POWER as well as ensuing PHYSICAL POWER in the Physical world.

Guys, if you cannot decide on a formal definition of 'God' you will keep going round and round in circle and never ever reach consensus.

(However, Consensus seems not to be what certain posters want though but simply to have something to argue about)

[kerwin]

Quote (shimmer @ May 24 2011,16:03)

Quote (kerwin @ May 24 2011,16:21) Quote (shimmer @ May 23 2011,17:23) Hi. Either Jesus was the one and only true God which I would accept if it was shown to me, or we accept the scripture as a child just as Jesus said, “Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven” Scripture shows the Father and son in a simple to understand way  “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent”. There is only one true God. It is either Jesus or it is the Father.  And the verse above shows the only true God AND Jesus Christ whom God sent. Just my view, not really wanting to debate it. Good point! Hi Kerwin, how are you? Hope your well.

I am doing well shimmer. I hope the same is true for you.

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