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Quote (kerwin @ July 02 2010,03:22) Tim Kraft, I see you also disagree with 2 Peter 2:1 when we are warned to be on the watch for false teachers who will introduce destructive heresies.
I choose to take that and other warnings from God to heart.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Kerwin: I am amazed that you could read what I wrote about believing Jesus for perfection and call the teacher false and the content destructive heresies.In purification through believing the words of Jesus Christ where do you find destructive heresies? If I am following the teachings of Jesus and quoting them have I followed a false teacher?
If I am proclaiming the year of Jubilee in Christ and the salvation that is freely ours IF WE BELIEVE, how can you see that as evil?
Whosoever will come and join with God by FAITH receives the Kingdom. You and I and all others are included in “whosoever”!
Actually your perfecton and cleansing have already come to you but you cannot experience the joys of perfect union with God until you believe its true.
God has set before us all, life and death. Now we choose! He recommends we choose life. God bless my fellow student, TK
Quote (chosenone @ July 01 2010,16:56) In this presesnt era, God does not see our sins, we have been “justified” by Christ Jesus, He has paid our debt for all mankinds sins, past, present, and future. 2.Cor.5:18-19… 18 Yet all is of God, Who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation,
19 how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation.Having said this, we must understand what “concilliation” means. Following explanation:
'A' & 'B' are angry with one another.
'A' relents and “conciliates” with 'B', but 'B' still angry. 'A' has “conciliated” with B.
'B' now relents, therefore 'A' & 'B' have reconciliated with each other. 'A' & 'B' are reconciled.
Note in 2Cor.5:18-19, God has “conciliated” the world to Himself, all mankind has not yet been “reconciliated”, still a one way act, God to mankind, but not (all) mankind to God. In the future, at the consummation (1Cor. 15:28) God will reconcile ALL mankind to Himself.
This is how I see it.
God Bless, Jerry.
Jerry: Beautiful post. Im going to read it again. Maybe three times. God Bless you. TKQuote (kerwin @ July 01 2010,15:24) Tim Kraft, This passage explicitly labels sins as acts of the sinful nature and then gives some examples.
Galatians 5:19-21(NIV) reads:
Quote The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
It also explicitly state if you regulate your life according to these acts then you will not be saved on that day and scripture cannot be broken.
Kerwin: Those are the acts of a sinful nature! Thats a sin consciousness! A mind filled with believing in sin! If one believes he is in sin then those are the fruit of his beliefs!I thought you had been saved by the word/Jesus. I was under the impresson that you set free from the law of sin and death. I thought you were a new creation in Christ. I was under the impressiong that you were being born again to
a new man in God. I thought you were Baptized and being whelmed with the washing of the water of the word of God!
Sin is not something you do or don't do, it is a product of what you believe. God Bless you, TK
Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2010,19:03) Quote (chosenone @ July 01 2010,16:56) In this presesnt era, God does not see our sins, we have been “justified” by Christ Jesus, He has paid our debt for all mankinds sins, past, present, and future. This is how I see it.
God Bless, Jerry.
Hi Chosenone,Keep telling yourself un-Biblical lies and see how far it gets you?
Heb.10:26-27 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of
judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Ed J: Have you received the knowledge of the truth? I believe you have. The knowledge of the truth is Jesus paid the price for sin/error/wrong thinking! Jesus gave us the truth.Your sin has been removed. Jesus took away our sin. Jesus took away the sin of the world. The truth of God wiped out the error of sin. Light overcame darkness.One who returns to sin believing is like a dog returning to his own vomit!
If you believe that Jesus did those things then that is the case for all. If you or anyone continues to believe in sin after Jesus took it away, then there remaineth no further sacrifice!
It boils down to what do you choose to believe? That you still are in sin or your sin has been washed away by Gods word through Jesus?
The judgment day for a beliver is the day he accepts the truth of Jesus that there is no more sin. No sin, no error. No error nothing to judge as wrong. Cleansed by the truth.
There is no further judgment for believers alive with the truth of freedom from sin. There is however a judgment for the dead in trespasses and sin! Bless you, TK
Hi Tim,
Pretend you a bubble floating around. See there you go, now you have no more troubles,
because you are now a little bubble without a care in the world.See how good it feels to have NO MORE TROUBLES little bubble.
Life is so very good for you now little Timmy, because you are a little floating bubble now!
This is what you 'think', therefore this is what you are, you now have no more troubles in life little bubble.This new age philosophy you have will get you nowhere my friend. (Matt.7:21)
Tim Kraft,
I assure you that the words I hear from you are not the same as I hear from Jesus. Jesus did not teach us to pretend our that we do not sin but rather he taught us to change our ways and do and do what is right. Jesus us did not leave us with just the command to change our ways but gave us the gift of the spirit of holiness by which we can and will change our ways if we believe.
We cannot accomplish the goal of being like God in true righteousness and holiness if we deny thay we have a sinful nature or pretend we do not need cleansing of all unrighteousness.
That is my concern for you.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Kerwin………..The mind is a powerful thing, “So a man thinks so he is”. The whole thing comes down to (how) do we overcome is it by our (OWN) Self determination or a New Creation brought about by the Spirit of GOD given to us , Is it by GRACE (God influencing on the heart) or is it the works of Man we should trust in. Does God really take out of us the stony heart and give us a heart of flesh (soft heart) or we by sheer determination and self reliance create our own righteousness, Did Paul say the gentiles obtained there righteousness by works of the Law or by way of a creation, “FOR THE GENTILES WHO HAVE NOT THE LAW BUT DO THE THINGS CONTAINED THEREIN SHOW THE LAW OF GOD WRITTEN ON THEIR HEARTS BY THE HAND OF GOD. God Spoke through Jesus' mouth and said “ALL THE EVER CAME BEFORE ME WERE LAIRS AND THIEVES”. Man tries to steal God's glory by trusting in himself to create his righteousness through obedience to the law, but we know a man is created unto righteousness by the Hand of GOD. The question has never been should we walk in GOD'S Ways the question is what is causing that to take place is it from man or from GOD through his Grace (God's influence on our heart) one is a work of man the other is of GOD. One has an appearance of righteousness (white wash sepulchers ) but inside full of dead mens bones, the other is from the Inside out produced by GOD'S Spirit, and man can take (NO) credit for that and if they try they are liars and thieves as God said through Jesus' mouth. IMO
peace and love…………………gene
To all: Everyone on this topic is saved to the uttermost through Jesus. Everyone is cleansed by the words of Jesus John15:3—-We are washed by the water of the word of God Eph.5:26—-the blood of Jesus cleanseth us from all sin 1John1:7—-
We are all the righteousness of God through Christ, Jesus came to put away our sin Heb.9:26—we are free from sin Rom.8:2—-whosoever is born of God sinneth not….John5:18—-
TOALLY APART FROM WORKS OF ANY KIND, GOOD OR BAD!
These truths are for whosoever will belive them and accept them as the way to purification before God. Purified by faith that God purified us through Jesus, not by any sort of works or our own lest we would boast that we did it.
This is for all who will believe. What a gift. The greatest love ever. God did it for us. God requires only faith to connect. Its time to celebrate not argue. God blessed us all in Christ. TK
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 28 2010,00:34) Quote (kerwin @ June 27 2010,19:31) To all. I will say no since God put limits on us and what we call mistakes stem from those limits.
On the other hand people have been know to call a mistake a sin and a sin a mistake and doing so is displeasing to God.
I admit that sometime I have difficulty telling the difference because a sin can often masquerade as a mistake and the difference is a matter of heart. In these cases I pray to God to give me the wisdom to tell the difference and if it is a sin to purify my heart of the unrighteousness that leads to it. God can and will do it if you truly seek him.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Kerwin……….You have brought up a good question. This might help show the different (types) of sin, there is a sin that is willfull and knowingly done, that is simply called (SIN) in scripture, but the is also a sin commited unknowingly, that is called (INIQUITY) , remember where it say thu sins (and) thy iniquites God would forgive. Here is an example of iniquity. Jesus said in that day many would come to him and say Lord In your name we have done all the good works, and Jesus would respond to then “DEPART FROM ME YOU WORKERS OF INIQUITY, I KNOW YOU NOT. Notice he did not say they did not do good works did he, he simply said their work were an iniquity. That is what and iniquity is, it is a sin being do unknowingly . You see they were doing their work in Jesus name , they should have been doing their good work in God the Fathers name, they in their minds had advanced Jesus to the Place of GOD, that is Idolatry and that is a sin. But to them it was a good work. That is the difference between Sins one is an INIQUITY a sin of not realizing it, the other is a Sin of realization , But both produce the same results they are both sins and need to be repented of. GOD is Gracious and does Forgive us of our sins and iniquities (unrealized sins). hope this helped>peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
I think your wrong on this one.
You're interpretation was a nice low blow addressing the issues that are common on these boards… IE: Jesus' Divinity.but the interpretation is kinda off.
Matthew 7:21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
——-
It sounds like the Matthew 21 is speaking, ” NOT EVERYONE who confesses that I am lord shall enter the kingdom”
This makes sense, because even The Devil and demons confess Jesus as Lord.
Then it goes on to say, only those who do the WILL of my Father.
Well what's The WILL of God?
To love him with all your heart, mind, and soul (to have a relationship with him)
Then to love you neighbor as you would yourself ( to take care of one another in spirit and truth, to love one another).
———-
Then verse 22 states, haven't we done good works in your name?
Then verse 23 says, depart…I never knew you?
———–
How do you know someone? By having a relationship with them.
You can meet someone for the first time, and you can KNOW WHO THEY ARE….but you won't truly KNOW them, without having an honest relationship with them.
And to do things in the name of God, yet not know God would definately seem like an iniquity.
Kinda like the pharisees and church leaders, who are all men of God…but behind closed doors, they are the worst sinners with no regard for God.
I trully think this was the message Jesus was trying to portray, yet you manipulated the interpretation as a basis to attack the divinity of Jesus' Christ when the verses had no bearing on that topic?
————
If you think about it Gene…that's exactly what you're doing in this post….You're trying to explain something in the name of God, yet you're working iniquity because the verse have nothing to do with your explaination…
You exalted your belief over God's words and truth, and instead of trying to access God's meaning, you manipulated the verses to serve your own cause.
These verse have condemned your actions brother!
kerwin says
Quote I assure you that the words I hear from you are not the same as I hear from Jesus. Jesus did not teach us to…
Hi kerwin, you make a common error, Jesus was a teacher to Israel, not the gentiles, His comission was to Israel and them only. Matt.15:24 …Now He (Jesus), answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” See also Ro.15:8 … For I am saying that Christ has become the Servant of the Circumcision, for the sake of the truth of God, to confirm the patriarchal promises.
This is what is meant when Paul says in 2Tim.2:15 …Endeavor to present yourself to God qualified, an unashamed worker, correctly cutting the word of truth.
God bless, Jerry.Hi Gene, good posts, keep up the good work.
God Bless, Jerry.Hi Tim Kraft, you said…
Quote These truths are for whosoever will belive them and accept them as the way to purification before God. Purified by faith that God purified us through Jesus, not by any sort of works or our own lest we would boast that we did it. This is for all who will believe. What a gift. The greatest love ever. God did it for us. God requires only faith to connect. Its time to celebrate not argue. God blessed us all in Christ. TK
You are so right, “All is of God” (2Cor.5:18). And in Ep.2:10 …”For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them”.
God Bless, Jerry.Hi RokkaMan,
In your answer to Gene you state…Quote I think your wrong on this one.
You're interpretation was a nice low blow addressing the issues that are common on these boards… IE: Jesus' Divinity.
but the interpretation is kinda off.I think your wrong on this one.
Then you quote various scriptures from Matthew. You must remember that Jesus teaching was to Israel, and them only. His teachings were about the “Law”, under the “old covenant” that God had made with His chosen people, Israel. See scripture Matt.15:24 …Now He, answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
And also Ro.15:8 …For I am saying that Christ has become the Servant of the Circumcision, for the sake of the truth of God, to confirm the patriarchal promises.
This is what is meant when Paul says in Tim.2:15 …”Correctly cut the word of truth”.
What I am saying is that we must understand that Jesus teaching was to Israel, under the 'law', while Pauls teachings are for the nations, and believing Jews, while under the covenant of “the Grace of God”.God Bless, Jerry.
Gene,
The issue here is the difference between faith and denial of the truth. Which man do you think is justified before God the one who denies that he is guilty of sin or the man who goes before God and confesses that he is a sinner and begs to be changed. Is the two men I spoke of not like the Pharisee and the tax collector as the man who states he does not sin is satisfied with the righteousness he has even though it is short of the goal of being like God in true holiness and righteousness.
Faith is taking an honest look at what is and realizing that God has the power to change it into what does not yet exist. Faith is knowing that because stated those that hunger and thirst for righteousness will obtain that goal that if you hunger and thirst for righteousness you will stop sinning even though you currently have not become that mature. Faith is knowing that God works at his pace and not yours and that his pace is right. Faith is knowing that just as you changed from a baby to a child and a child to an adult by the power of God in the time he allotted you will mature in the Anointed One if you persevere and obey all of Jesus’ teachings.
To obtain righteousness by faith from first to last you must first believe that God can and will do it for you. In addition you must also repent and the Pharisee in the above example was not repentant because he was satisfied with the level of righteousness he had even though is was anything but righteousness in the eyes of God. The words I hear from Tim and Choosenoone are words that are designed to tell the Pharisee in Jesus’ example what his itching ears want to hear and not to call him to repentance.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Choosenone,
What do you believe Jesus meant when he told the Eleven to teach the believers of all nations everything he had commanded them, Matthew 28:19-20?
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Kerwin: It makes me sad that you seem to have turned against me in general. You could not possibly read my last 6 posts with an open heart and mind and truly find a wayward child or enemy of God.
If you look closely at what I write you will see where our division of truth is. You seem to be locked into the same, sinful, old testament teachings. The religious heirarchy of that time was teaching the masses rituals, work doctrines, trying, offerings, sacrifices, following
laws, trying to be good, trying to be clean, trying to work out a salvation acceptable to God. They were in darkness. Believing those rules and regulations and works of all kinds could make one clean unto God was sin! An error of believing. Sin separates a mans mind from God.
Being in sin is being in wrong thinking. Jesus came to straighten out the thinking. His cousin John prepared the way for peoples minds to be able to accept the new (or original) way of thinking. Hence the Baptism, a symbolic act, exampling a brain/mind washing. Clearing out
of the mind, old sinful thinking, in preparation for the truth to come from Jesus. The truth from Jesus was God is spirit. Spirit is words. Words abide in an accepting/believing man and he becomes one with the words that he believes. If he believes in death words that is what he will fall to. If he
believes the truth/life of Gods words he will live abundantly in fulness of life and love. God made it that simple for us. It has become a choice for any or all. Whosoever can believe Gods words for righteousness and perfection, receives. Whosoever believes he must work and sacrifice
and in any way help their salvation is eternally lost in sin/error. Don't hate me, I'm just trying to learn with everyone else. TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 03 2010,20:37) Kerwin: It makes me sad that you seem to have turned against me in general. You could not possibly read my last 6 posts with an open heart and mind and truly find a wayward child or enemy of God. TK
Hi Tim,Hitler thought he was right. So what one thinks is irrelevant!
Thinking you right ONLY matters if it lines up with Holy Scriptures!
This is what Kerwin myself have been trying to get you to understand.
This ridicules Post Here (Fifth Post), was an attempt to get through to you.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgTim Kraft.
I assure you that God does not change and he demands righteousness of his people no matter if they are under the old, new, or neither covenant. God is merciful and he expects more of those whom have more and anyone who has entered the new covenant has more as we have Jesus as King and through him we are by the grace of God given the Righteous Spirit that we are commanded to live by.
Those under the old testament had only their own efforts boosted by their faith to overcome the world and were doomed to fall short of the glory of God. We all start at the same immature point that we sin and so are shown to be subject to sin by our actions but we unlike those that went before have more as we can enter the new covenant and live by the spirit of God. When we enter the new covenant the spirit of God enters us and works to transform us into the image of the Anointed One even as he is the image of God. It works by the power of God if we believe God when he promised through his Son to really set us free of being sin's servant. I assure that God has the power to change you so you really will stop sinning and he will do as he states. Believe him.
I do find a wayward child of God as I call you a fellow student but it is my hope that you will see the wisdom of confessing your sins and trusting God to cleanse you of the unrighteousness that led you to sin in the first place. You will do this if you truly believe God when he promises that those that hunger and thirst for righteousness will stop sinning.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Quote (Ed J @ July 03 2010,23:19) Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 03 2010,20:37) Kerwin: It makes me sad that you seem to have turned against me in general. You could not possibly read my last 6 posts with an open heart and mind and truly find a wayward child or enemy of God. TK
Hi Tim,Hitler thought he was right. So what one thinks is irrelevant!
Thinking you right ONLY matters if it lines up with Holy Scriptures!
This is what Kerwin myself have been trying to get you to understand.
This ridicules Post Here (Fifth Post), was an attempt to get through to you.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J: Jesus' purpose to come to earth was to change the way people were thinking. He gave his life to show us the truth. Truth is thought, thinking, beliefs established by God.If you are going back to the old testament teachings they were in error. They were sin teaching. They were in darkness and needed light/truth.
Why would anyone go backward into darkness to try to find enlightenment? There is no saviour in the darkness of the ot.
The old way could not cleanse a sinner of his error of thinking.
Jesus brought the words of God to us and made us clean.So the word of God has made us clean now who will believe that truth? If you believe it, you are it. If you disbelieve Gods cleansing through Jesus then you are damned to distruction.
It is true that whatever one thinks is right to him, is right to him. But to say that thinking is irrelevant is incorrect. You are what you think God has made you to be. Whatsoever God has called clean, call not un-clean. Bless you, TK
Hi TK,
Do you keep the 10 commandments, meaning is there any you are currently breaking?
Quote (kerwin @ July 03 2010,19:44) Faith is taking an honest look at what is and realizing that God has the power to change it into what does not yet exist. Faith is knowing that because stated those that hunger and thirst for righteousness will obtain that goal that if you hunger and thirst for righteousness you will stop sinning even though you currently have not become that mature. Faith is knowing that God works at his pace and not yours and that his pace is right. Faith is knowing that just as you changed from a baby to a child and a child to an adult by the power of God in the time he allotted you will mature in the Anointed One if you persevere and obey all of Jesus’ teachings. To obtain righteousness by faith from first to last you must first believe that God can and will do it for you.
Kerwin ……….First of all Faith is not taking a honest look at ones self. That is the work of the Spirit of Truth Given us by GOD , it is what examines us and (reveals) to us our errors, because (IT) the spirit of truth, both accuses and defends us. It is the earnest from God given to all who truly believe.There is no one who is (righteous) except GOD, but God (accounts) us righteous because of our faith as he did Abraham. God said he looked for (ONE) righteous man and could find (NONE). So he took it upon his own arm (strength) to bring salvation.
Faith it self is given by God…> “for he has given to every man a (measure) of faith”, we are told.
Faith is certainly the Key , but that Faith is not the (WE) perform righteousness, but in GOD who (creates) righteousness (IN) us. And we through his Spirit (intellect) produce fruits of it.
Jesus said ….> “Why call (Me) good there is only (ONE) that is good and that is GOD”, and again…>”There is none that doth good no not (ONE)”. God through His anointing in us is our righteousness. Therefor none can boast , because it is BY the (GRACE) (God influencing on our hearts) that effects (HIS) Will, and causes Change. This is what transforms Us, not our own Wills and self determinations. “For (HE) WORKS In us (Both) to WILL and do of (HIS) good pleasure”,….> “And this is what overcomes the world (Our Faith”, according to John.
Kerwin…….Your use of the words (YOU MUST) shows where your true reliance is on brother. IMO
peace and love to you and yous……………..gene
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 27 2010,19:09) Hi All, Lets dicuss these differences if there is any according to scripture,
Mistakes and Sins.
Is making an imperfect choice based on an individuals own will, a Sin?
God cant make mistakes.. so if we commit a mistake its because me made an imperfect choice.
Is that a sin, a trespass before God?
what say you?
Good question.My two cents:
All sins are mistakes, whether intentional or not, whether done with or without knowledge.
Paul, in I Timothy 1:13, “Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
Of interest to some, is the difference between sin and sins. Not in reference to singular vs. plural, but in a different sense.
Sin could be defined as the underlying evil principle.
Sins are the actual transgression. The act of applying the evil principle.
Sometimes sin is in reference to the act, sometimes the verse really pops if we consider sin as meaning the underlying evil principle. Evil can be outrageous or subtle. Subtle as innuendos, for instance. Or speaking without really having checked the facts.
See Romans 5:19ff
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.We are made righteous in Christ, sin, the evil principle does not have dominion over us anymore.
Romans 6:1,2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?We are dead to the evil principles that sin is.
But, we still err at times. Why? We do not live according to the righteousness we have. The righteousness we have is lived by living God's righteous principles. We focus on doing rightly. II Timothy 3:16, according to the instructions of righteousness.
We still sin, ie, make mistakes, but Romans 5:1 states that we are justified, we have peace with God. God is not looking to punish, but rather to reward us for doing what's right. When we do err, I John 1:5-2:2. We will make mistakes, we will sin, but God makes it clear that His will is that we get beyond them and rise up to righteous living. One benefit to us that we are justified, is that we can get forgiveness from God, forgive ourselves and move on, quickly.
Philippians 3:13,14
Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended, but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forth unto those things which are before.
I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.Paul could have dwelt on his past mistakes, but he chose to move ahead, keeping the rewards of Christ's return in mind.
See I Corinthians 1:30,31
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God, is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and santification and redemption.
That, according as it is written, he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.Let us focus on God's gift of righteousness to us. Let us learn to live up to our potential.
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