Mikeboll64 vs francis

Participant

Hi Everyone,

As soon as everyone realizes who the son of perdition is, the 'great i am'(Lucifer),
then you all can join with me in gathering back to Jesus Christ!

(Click on this Link)
Blow the trumpet in Zion!
The day of Christ is at Hand!
'Great i am'(Lucifer) is the man of sin!

2Thess.2:1-4 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled,
neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man
deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,
and that man of sin (is Lucifer) be revealed (the not so great i am), the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is (YHVH=63) “called God”(63), or that is
“worshipped”(117); so that he as (i am)God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Ezekiel.28:9 Wilt thou yet say before (Ed J)him that slayeth thee, i am God? but
thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
1Thess.4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man,
but God, who hath also given unto us his HolySpirit.

Zech.9:14 And the LORD shall be seen over them, and
his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the LORD GOD
shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.

Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

December 27, 2010 at 5:20 pm#231391

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2010,20:50)

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 27 2010,09:28)

Mike,

I think what you said about KJ saying what you said he said is just that – you saying that KJ said that he said what he said.

What PROOF do you have that KJ said what you said that KJ said?

JA,

Why are you here in this thread? Do you have any further input that deals with the thread title?

And I'm sure WJ will remember when KJ said that to you. I'm pretty sure you also remember it as clear as a bell. It was at that time that I became your enemy in your own eyes. It was about that time that you started personally attacking me because you have no grounds to refute my scriptural points.

Let's ask WJ if he remembers. If not, maybe I'll look for the post from 6 months ago.

mike

Hi Mike

Wow, I see there has been a lot of quarreling going on here.

JA probably wont be able to see this for it looks like he has been banned, but t seems to me I remember KJ saying something to that effect.

JA has all but admitted he was the master at ad-hominems.

The purplose of such tactics is to wear the oppenent down mentally by distracting him from the debate and getting him to enter a mud slinging contest which he was very good at doing.

It was for that reason that most would not continue debates with him, IMO. There are others on this sight that do the same thing and even those using scriptures against the one he debates, no names mentioned.

December 27, 2010 at 7:48 pm#231392

http://www.kencollins.com/why-09.htm

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 23 2010,19:32)

Keith,

Even the Athanasian Creed is not saying what Francis is saying.

Excerpt from the creed:
Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man; God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of the substance of his mother, born in the world; perfect God and perfect man, of a rational soul and human flesh subsisting.

The early church father's DO NOT agree with him, read their writings. They say that He was begotten before the ages…how quickly you forget.

Kathi

They sure don’t agree with you especially regarding the Holy Spirit. You speak as if they agree with you but the “Athanasian creed” interprets itself…

The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet they are not three eternals, but one Eternal.
As also there are not three incomprehensibles, nor three uncreated, but one Uncreated, and one Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Spirit Almighty. And yet they are not three almighties, but one Almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. And yet they are not three gods, but one God.
So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord. And yet not three lords, but one Lord.

Their meaning of “begotten” was “eternally begotten” because he shares the same eternal essence of the Father. The Nicene Creed at the First Council of Nicea (325) states…

But those who say: “there was a time when he was not;' and 'He was not before he was made”' and 'He was made out of nothing,' or 'He is of another substance' or 'essence,' or 'The Son of God is created,' or 'changeable,' or 'alterable'—they are condemned by the holy catholic and apostolic Church.

Not to mention I have shown you many times where the early Fathers disagreed with your interpretation of the word “Begotten” as meaning Jesus had a beginning.

For instance…

St. Chrysostom 347-407

For this, as I before said, he has shown by the term “Word.” As therefore the expression, ““In the beginning was the Word,” shows His Eternity, so “was in the beginning with God,” has declared to us His Co-eternity. For that you may not, when you hear “In the beginning was the Word,” suppose Him to be Eternal, and “yet imagine the life of 17 the Father to differ from His by some interval and longer duration, and so assign a BEGINING to the Only-Begotten, he adds, “was in the beginning with God”; so eternally even as the Father Himself, for the Father was never without the Word, but He was always God with God, yet Each in His proper Person. Source

How quickly you forget!

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 23 2010,19:32)

Anyway, how do you know that the early church father's would have gone along with the Athanasian Creed?

Why do you assume those who lived in 300 or 400 AD and adopted the AC are not early Fathers? Because they do not agree with you?

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 23 2010,19:32)

Have you been talking to the deceased?

They were long gone before the creed was even written, even Athanasias was gone before the creed was written.

Was St. Chrysostom an early Father? In fact he was one of the most recognized and accepted for his writings during that time.

I hope you had a Merry Christmas!

December 27, 2010 at 9:23 pm#231393

Participant

Hello! It is refreshing to finally have peace on this Forum. As far as the trinity is concerned,. it is a man made doctrine. The first Christians did not keep it. It was Quintus Septimus Florence Tertullian who after three brutal and bloody three centuries came up with it. Constantine then put it into law. Proof by Scriptures that it is wrong are

Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.

Deu 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:

1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.

1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

And by Jesus own words in

Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: FOR MY FATHER IS GREATER THEN I.

I know that there is one Scripture that WJ likes to bring up as proof, how many do you see here?

Peace and Love Irene

December 27, 2010 at 9:55 pm#231394

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 27 2010,15:23)

Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.

Deu 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:

1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.

1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

And by Jesus own words in

Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: FOR MY FATHER IS GREATER THEN I.

I know that there is one Scripture that WJ likes to bring up as proof, how many do you see here?

Peace and Love Irene

Irene

So you do not accept all the scriptures? So you would rather pitt scriptures agianst each other?

Maybe it is because your interpretation of the scriptures you list is flawed, and not looking at the big picture, because none of those you post are contradictory of the “Trinitarian” view, but only in your mind they are.

December 27, 2010 at 10:22 pm#231395

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 28 2010,07:55)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 27 2010,15:23)

Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.

Deu 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:

1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.

1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

And by Jesus own words in

Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: FOR MY FATHER IS GREATER THEN I.

I know that there is one Scripture that WJ likes to bring up as proof, how many do you see here?

Peace and Love Irene

Irene

So you do not accept all the scriptures? So you would rather pitt scriptures agianst each other?

Keith, Oh Keith, no my friend those Scriptures are plain as can be ONE LORD and GOD. Even by Jesus own words He said that His Father is greater….there is none BESIDE HIM…..
But then I did not expect anything else from you……Irene

December 27, 2010 at 10:30 pm#231396

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 27 2010,16:22)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 28 2010,07:55)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 27 2010,15:23)

Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.

Deu 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:

1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.

1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

And by Jesus own words in

Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: FOR MY FATHER IS GREATER THEN I.

I know that there is one Scripture that WJ likes to bring up as proof, how many do you see here?

Peace and Love Irene

Irene

So you do not accept all the scriptures? So you would rather pitt scriptures agianst each other?

Irene

If what you say is true, then why do you call Jesus your Lord?

Then why do you admit Jesus is called “God” in John 1:1?

There is only “One Lord and One God”, that we serve, right?

How many masters do you have? Jesus said you can only have “One”.

But then again I don't really expect anything else from you.

December 28, 2010 at 2:46 am#231397

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 28 2010,08:30)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 27 2010,16:22)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 28 2010,07:55)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 27 2010,15:23)

Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.

Deu 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:

1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.

1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

And by Jesus own words in

Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: FOR MY FATHER IS GREATER THEN I.

I know that there is one Scripture that WJ likes to bring up as proof, how many do you see here?

Peace and Love Irene

Irene

So you do not accept all the scriptures? So you would rather pitt scriptures agianst each other?

Irene

If what you say is true, then why do you call Jesus your Lord?

Then why do you admit Jesus is called “God” in John 1:1?

There is only “One Lord and One God”, that we serve, right?

How many masters do you have? Jesus said you can only have “One”.

But then again I don't really expect anything else from you.

Keith, Jesus is the Son of God, and the Father is greater then the Son, according to scripture. John 14:28 says so….And Ephesians 4:6 says that the Father is above all. Along with all other Scriptures…..If you check in the old Testament God the Father is LORD in all capital letters, while Jesus is Lord….I worship LORD God and Father and honor Lord Jesus Christ….Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lords….and deserves to be honored……
Peace and Love Irene

December 28, 2010 at 4:30 am#231398

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 28 2010,08:30)

Irene

Then why do you admit Jesus is called “God” in John 1:1?

Hi WJ,

Know your FACTS! “The Word” was called “God” in John 1:1.
John 14:24: He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and
“The Word” which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Maybe it is your interpretation of the scriptures (as you see them) is flawed, not understanding the big picture?
Isa.55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD(YHVH). For as
the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

December 28, 2010 at 5:19 am#231399

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 28 2010,08:22)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 28 2010,07:55)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 27 2010,15:23)

Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.

Deu 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:

1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.

1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

And by Jesus own words in

Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: FOR MY FATHER IS GREATER THEN I.

I know that there is one Scripture that WJ likes to bring up as proof, how many do you see here?

Peace and Love Irene

Irene

So you do not accept all the scriptures? So you would rather pitt scriptures agianst each other?

Hi Irene,

1Tm.2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
Yes, WJ has trouble with this verse doesn't he?

Jesus lineage explained

“Son of Man”: 25%; Mary's mother's lineage was of the tribe of Levi. (Luke 1:5, 1:36)
“Son of Man”: 25%: Mary's father's lineage was (Judah) through Nathan(son of David). (Luke 3:23-31)
“Son of God”: 50%: Jesus' Father was the “HolySpirit”; NOT Joseph! (Mathew 1:18 / Mathew 1:20 / Luke 1:35)

Birth: Jesus was 50% HolySpirit(God)(Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35), 25% Levite(Priest) and 25% Judah(King)!
Baptism by John the baptizer, Jesus was filled with the HolySpirit(God) beyond measure! (John 3:34 / John 1:14)

Here is why Jesus is called both the “Son of Man” and the “Son of God”…

Mother Father
Mary HolySpirit
50% 50%
\ /
\ /
Jesus
/ \
/ \
/ \
Son of Man Son of God
(Mark 6:3) (Luke 1:35)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

December 28, 2010 at 7:25 am#231400

Participant

Well WJ,

What do you have to say?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

December 28, 2010 at 3:32 pm#231401

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 28 2010,01:25)

Well WJ,

What do you have to say?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Wasn't it you that just posted about people “spamming”?

Why do you keep spamming the same old tired stuff in threads?

Can't you post something original instead of just copying and pasting the same thing over and over again?

December 28, 2010 at 3:35 pm#231402

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 27 2010,20:46)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 28 2010,08:30)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 27 2010,16:22)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 28 2010,07:55)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 27 2010,15:23)

Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.

Deu 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:

1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.

1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

And by Jesus own words in

Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: FOR MY FATHER IS GREATER THEN I.

I know that there is one Scripture that WJ likes to bring up as proof, how many do you see here?

Peace and Love Irene

Irene

So you do not accept all the scriptures? So you would rather pitt scriptures agianst each other?

Irene

If what you say is true, then why do you call Jesus your Lord?

Then why do you admit Jesus is called “God” in John 1:1?

There is only “One Lord and One God”, that we serve, right?

How many masters do you have? Jesus said you can only have “One”.

But then again I don't really expect anything else from you.

Irene

You didn't address my questions. Here they are again…

If what you say is true, then why do you call Jesus your Lord?

Then why do you admit Jesus is called “God” in John 1:1?

There is only “One Lord and One God”, that we serve, right?

How many masters do you have? Jesus said you can only have “One”.

You say that Jesus is your “Lord” and the Father is your LORD, but the scriptures do not have caps do they?

Jesus said you can only serve “One Master” how many Lords and masters do you have Irene?

December 28, 2010 at 4:02 pm#231403

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 27 2010,22:30)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 28 2010,08:30)

Irene

Then why do you admit Jesus is called “God” in John 1:1?

Hi WJ,

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

The Father did not become flesh!

I was not speaking to you was I? Just claiming that my understanding is wrong is a 2 way street isn't it?

Irene believes the “Word” that was with God and was God in John 1:1 is Jesus.

December 28, 2010 at 4:19 pm#231404

princess of the king

Participant

wj,

how would you set up your kingdom?

December 28, 2010 at 5:27 pm#231405

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 29 2010,01:35)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 27 2010,20:46)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 28 2010,08:30)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 27 2010,16:22)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 28 2010,07:55)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 27 2010,15:23)

Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.

Deu 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:

1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.

1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

And by Jesus own words in

Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: FOR MY FATHER IS GREATER THEN I.

I know that there is one Scripture that WJ likes to bring up as proof, how many do you see here?

Peace and Love Irene

Irene

So you do not accept all the scriptures? So you would rather pitt scriptures agianst each other?

Irene

If what you say is true, then why do you call Jesus your Lord?

Then why do you admit Jesus is called “God” in John 1:1?

There is only “One Lord and One God”, that we serve, right?

How many masters do you have? Jesus said you can only have “One”.

But then again I don't really expect anything else from you.

Irene

You didn't address my questions. Here they are again…

If what you say is true, then why do you call Jesus your Lord?

Then why do you admit Jesus is called “God” in John 1:1?

There is only “One Lord and One God”, that we serve, right?

How many masters do you have? Jesus said you can only have “One”.

You say that Jesus is your “Lord” and the Father is your LORD, but the scriptures do not have caps do they?

Jesus said you can only serve “One Master” how many Lords and masters do you have Irene?

WJ I did address your question by stating that Jehovah God in LORD and that Jesus is Lord. Did God the Father call Jesus God, yes. Hebrew 1:8 and John1:1 however God and The Word of God are titles. Both have other names. Jehovah God and LORD is above all according to Ephesians 4:6 and by Jesus own words He said that “MY FATHER IS GREATER THEN I.

Keith, I happen to know what you are after. Just because both are called God, that still makes Jehovah God greater. Satan and others were called God, so are they too to be worshiped??? Of course not……..
.One more thing. I used to teach the trinity to our four children and the Holy spirit is a person. So does that now make the Holy Spirit the Father of Jesus?? Unless you teach not that the Holy Spirit is a person, do you?? ………

Peace and love Irene

December 28, 2010 at 6:34 pm#231406