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Irene wrote:
Quote KJ First of all, you still don't understand what 2 Samuel 7:14 means. All the Authors of the Bible were inspired by Gods Holy Spirit. I also never questioned that Almighty God was a Father before Jesus was Created by Almighty God. He is the firstborn of all creation, which you don't believe….. Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
And I don't play games here…..
Irene
Irene,Again I say that the author to the Hebrews has a better understanding of prophecy than you. He applied the prophecy to Christ when God said to Him, “I will BECOME a Father to Him.” He also applied the Psalm to Christ which says, “THIS DAY I have begotten you.”
Therefore, God was not always Christ's Father. He BECAME Christ's Father at a time called “THIS DAY.”
2 + 2 + 4
Kj
WJ and KJ,
I have studied the Trinity and non Trinity beliefs.
One is a mystery, how many pages it takes to try and explain it, even then it's still too confusing. It leaves many questions unable to be answered in scripture.
The non trinity way makes sense, and fits into scripture better.
If I were to explain it to my child who is five, how much easier it is to tell him God is the Father, Jesus is the son etc.
Can I ask you, is there a church I can go to where the truth is told ?
Don't get me wrong, I don't go deaf. I watch preachers on TV, trinitarian one's, and hear the words. I also hear the spirit which is in many who have turned their life around, trinitarians and all.
I believe people like Istari/JA leave me not confused. I thank him for that. The way he puts it is good.
When I put the verse I did, it's because the way I became so close to Istari/JA is his kindness and concern towards me. To be honest I have never seen any of this from you WJ. So, you speak on. As do many. Words without love or kindness have nothing to them.
Do you also believe in eternal hell ? Just wondering. And KJ do you ?
Jesus prayed to the Father. Why do churches today pray to and call Jesus God the Father ? Try as I have I dont understand it.
1 John 5
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.My child would understand this. I understand this. Do you ?
When I pray I pray to the Father, just as Jesus did.
All who believe that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, are sons of God. A son is not the father. Does this, in your beliefs, mean that all of those who also become sons also become God ?
Quote All who believe that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, are sons of God. A son is not the father. Does this, in your beliefs, mean that all of those who also become sons also become God ?
There is the problem right there karmarie.
So it requires you to believe IN THE SON, who has the FATHER IN HIM.
So…. you become a son by believing in THE SON, so you are a child of the SON?
Doesnt scriptures also say that we are the children of the LIGHT?
so isnt Jesus that LIGHT? as scriptures clarify.No where in scripture does it ever say that The Father was IN someone, NOR was another PERFECT.
Only Jesus Christ was Perfect and had the Father IN him.And in order for others to have the Father and have the right to call him “abba” as adopted children in the faith, we must KNOW Jesus.
Do you understand this?
Look let me be very clear with you shimmer. The reason you dont understand is because you lack understanding in what we believe.
You cant deny something you dont understand.
These are the same words that Francis used towards mike.And thats the only reason why we disagree.
Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 12 2011,14:15) To be honest I have never seen any of this from you WJ. So, you speak on. As do many. Words without love or kindness have nothing to them.
Dittos!WJ
Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 12 2011,14:15) Jesus prayed to the Father. Why do churches today pray to and call Jesus God the Father ?
ShimmerJesus praying to the Father who is God does not mean he is not God like his Father no more than you talking to your earthly Father who is human means you aren't human. What is so hard to understand about that?
I don't hear anyone in the churches I have gone too calling Jesus God the Father. I do hear them call Jesus God, but so did the Apostles and the scriptures.
Do you pray to Jesus? If not why not?
WJ
Keith has found the perfect solution to any attack against him:
Cry like a little girl and say that the poster is adhomineming him!Such a weak constitution goes against someone who implies that he is Spiritually Led!
Keith has no backbone. Any wisp of a breeze of condemnation against him and he blows over and snaps.
But then, he feels his strength(!) against the weakest poster here in this forum: Mikeboll64.
Mikeboll64's posts are so full of holes a double-decker Sperm whale could swim through them without touching any sides.
Trinity has already fallen in this Forum, yet Mikeboll64 raised it up again to debate because he wanted to 'beat someone in a debate, a feat he has yet to achieve, and thought he would prevail against Francis. It is clear and apparent that he certainly is not winning any awards even with the backing of all the killer posts that brought down Trinity the first time.
And notice that WJ and KJj are only able to debate/discuss on this single issue: Trinity!
Why? Because to debate/discuss any other matters could bring them into conflict with their belief on the Trinity Creed. Viz: they may get tangled up and disagree with Trinity and then have difficulty denying their error later on!For instance, KJj already says, truthfully, that 'the Father was not always the Father'.
Of course, this is true. But then it denies that the Son was eternally Created.
But even 'Eternally Created' is nonsense. Something that is created is something that did not exist at some prior point, so therefore cannot be 'Eternal'!!
The error here is that it is the 'Begotten Son, raised from the dead' who is the 'Eternal Son'.
When the Angel who was most righteous with God 'EMPTIED HIMSELF' of his divinity and came in the form of Man, he was a Complete Man in the flesh. Man like ADAM was when he was first created, Sinless and Holy. And he would have to be so, and only so, else what point would there be for 'God' to come as Man? God cannot Sin; God cannot Lie; God cannot be tempted; God cannot Die!
Jesus was Man in every way. A pure Sinless man, for that was the test. What reason would there be for 'testing God'? And how then would there be a comparison between Flesh and Blood ADAM and Almighty Spiritual God?
So, Jesus overcame sin, triumphed against all adversities, maintained himself in the faith of his God, YHVH, and took on the sins of all Mankind to die as a sinner who never sinned!
Thus, this glorious act of self-sacrifice proved true Worship of his God, Jehovah, God Almighty, the One True God of all time. And it was for this purpose that God raised him up again and made him the One True Son at that time, termed, 'The One and Only Begotten Son' and yes, still is the Only Begotten Son until the first resurrection, when 144,000 others will also become 'Begotten Sons of God Almighty'.To all those who believe differently, please present linked up resitation of your views.
Presenting bitty parts allows you to state one thing here but some other idea elsewhere and worse, YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE PRESENTING DIFFERENT VIEWS ACCORDING TO THE OPPOSITION and often TOTALLY AGAINST SCRIPTURES!
What on earth, and more importantly, in Heaven, do you ever hope to achieve by deliberately misleading others in presentation of supposed Scriptural Truth?
The last laugh is on you!! But no one will be laughing…Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 12 2011,14:15) Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. My child would understand this. I understand this. Do you ?
When I pray I pray to the Father, just as Jesus did.
Hi ShimmerThat seems a little condescending but O well?
Of course Jesus being the “Only Begotten Son” means he is not the Father but are there any others called “Only Begotten Sons” written of in scripture.
Even if he is litterally born of God would he be any less in nature than God? Are you less human than your Father?
How hard is that to understand?
Jesus gave us an example of how to pray but he also tells us to ask him in prayer.
Have you ever thought about what SF has just written to you that no man can come to the Father but by Jesus? Do you understand the implications of some other being to be standing between you and the Father or God?
Blessings Keith
Shimmer wrote:
Quote When I put the verse I did, it's because the way I became so close to Istari/JA is his kindness and concern towards me. To be honest I have never seen any of this from you WJ. So, you speak on. As do many. Words without love or kindness have nothing to them.
Yet JA got two tiles shortly after he came here last year and t8 later erased them. Then JA got banned and came back as “Istari” and now has two tiles again in a very short time.two tiles erased
banned
back and gets two more tilesNow WJ has been here for several years and has never recieved so much as one mark against him.
Shimmer's statment is an example of the scripture which says that the evil call the evil good and the good evil.
KJ
JA aka Istari wrote:
Quote Keith has found the perfect solution to any attack against him:
Cry like a little girl and say that the poster is adhomineming him!
You're describing Mike.KJ
Quote (Istari @ Jan. 12 2011,14:48) Keith has no backbone. Any wisp of a breeze of condemnation against him and he blows over and snaps.
Hi JAI see you are back in full stride of being your old self.
I wonder if you will be derided by some of your fans for your ad-hominems? I doubt it. They will continue to support you and your abusive way and then call it love.
You never answered my question JA, why not?
Blessings Keith
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Jan. 13 2011,06:52) JA aka Istari wrote: Quote Keith has found the perfect solution to any attack against him:
Cry like a little girl and say that the poster is adhomineming him!
You're describing Mike.KJ
Behave son!dad
Check this out about Asking In Jesus name as should we all should be doing.
John 14:12-14 (King James Version)
12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you
John 16:23
And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you
John 16:26
At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for youSo who gives you what you ask for?
Is it Jesus? or The Father,
In john 14 it says that Jesus will do it, and in John 16 it says the FAther will.
or are they used interchangably in purpose?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 13 2011,06:54) Quote (Istari @ Jan. 12 2011,14:48) Keith has no backbone. Any wisp of a breeze of condemnation against him and he blows over and snaps.
Hi JAI see you are back in full stride of being your old self.
I wonder if you will be derided by some of your fans for your ad-hominems? I doubt it. They will continue to support you and your abusive way and then call it love.
You never answered my question JA, why not?
Blessings Keith
It has been pointed out that the wicked call the evil good and the good evil.KJ Jr.
Bump for “astari who is JA”!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 06 2011,15:08) Quote (Istari @ Jan. 05 2011,19:11) WJ, you shouting at me asking to answer for Mikebll64, that ain't on…but just to answer anyway:
Jesus is not the GOD of ANYONE…I never said he was – your question is to MIKEBOLL64 – it is to him that that argument pertains…
JA So then satan is greater than Jesus? The scriptures says he is “The god of this world”?So if you say Jesus is “a god” which you do, then who is he “a god” too? If he is not “a god” to anyone then he is not “a god” at all right?
WJ
BTW JA why did you come back here pretending you were someone else?Blessings WJ
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 13 2011,06:58) Check this out about Asking In Jesus name as should we all should be doing.
John 14:12-14 (King James Version)
12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you
John 16:23
And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you
John 16:26
At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for youSo who gives you what you ask for?
Is it Jesus? or The Father,
In john 14 it says that Jesus will do it, and in John 16 it says the FAther will.
or are they used interchangably in purpose?
1 John 5:13-15 says that if we ask anything of the Son of God that is according to His will he will give it to us.Jack
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 13 2011,07:02) Bump for “astari who is JA”! Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 06 2011,15:08) Quote (Istari @ Jan. 05 2011,19:11) WJ, you shouting at me asking to answer for Mikebll64, that ain't on…but just to answer anyway:
Jesus is not the GOD of ANYONE…I never said he was – your question is to MIKEBOLL64 – it is to him that that argument pertains…
JA So then satan is greater than Jesus? The scriptures says he is “The god of this world”?So if you say Jesus is “a god” which you do, then who is he “a god” too? If he is not “a god” to anyone then he is not “a god” at all right?
WJ
BTW JA why did you come back here pretending you were someone else?Blessings WJ
Fair question.KJ Jr.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 12 2011,14:58) Check this out about Asking In Jesus name as should we all should be doing.
John 14:12-14 (King James Version)
12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you
John 16:23
And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you
John 16:26
At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for youSo who gives you what you ask for?
Is it Jesus? or The Father,
In john 14 it says that Jesus will do it, and in John 16 it says the FAther will.
or are they used interchangably in purpose?
Hi DennisonThese guys make me wonder if they ever pray or talk to Jesus.
John said we have fellowship with the Father and the Son, 1 John 1:1-3.
Pauls said…
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that “in every place CALL UPON THE NAME of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: 1 Cor 1:2
The antitrins claim they only pray to God. How is it that they even know God if they do not come to Jesus?
They think we are being rude for telling the truth and that we show no love, but scriptures say that to tell your brother the truth even when it hurts is Love. (Thats a paraphrase).
Blessings Keith
Keith wrtoe:
Quote John said we have fellowship with the Father and the Son, 1 John 1:1-3.
The fellowship is with the Father AND with the Son. You cannot have fellowship with someone you don't converse with. My guess is that the anti-trins don't talk to God at all.Jack
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Jan. 12 2011,15:16) Keith wrtoe: Quote John said we have fellowship with the Father and the Son, 1 John 1:1-3.
The fellowship is with the Father AND with the Son. You cannot have fellowship with someone you don't converse with. My guess is that the anti-trins don't talk to God at all.Jack
JackI wouldn't say they aren't praying to god at all, but I do wonder what God they are praying to. Jesus said you can't come any other way and if you do you are a theif and a robber.
WJ
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