Mikeboll64 vs francis

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….5;st=10

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 11 2011,01:46)

Quote (princess @ Jan. 08 2011,18:29)

to be found sinless, means one was judged.

Unless one has committed an offence there is no need for a trial or a judge. What are you talking about? Where is scripture that says Jesus was judged?

Keith,

I had once said here:

Quote

Wow! I can't believe you (t8) said that salvation through Christ is an antichrist doctrine. Again I say wow!

Then Paul (Is. 1:18) replied:

Quote

I can. It's a race to the bottom when it comes to the Arian assessment of Yeshua. That's the nature of their theology.

So far princess is beating all others to the bottom by saying that there was need for Christ to be judged.

Congratulations princess! You are ahead all others in the race to the bottom!

Roo

January 10, 2011 at 4:19 pm#232624

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 10 2011,01:40)

SF, Keith and Francis!

Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.

Deu 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:

Hi Irene

We believe all the scriptures that you post but none of them say Jesus is not God, do they?

You say Jesus is “a god” but how do you reconcile that with the first scripture you posted?

Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that “the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.

If you say Jesus is “a god” then you are saying “a god” is sitting next to the Father and ruling the Universe, yet the above scripture says “the Lord he is God; there is none else beside him“!

Who is your Lord Irene? Who was it with the Father in the beginning that was called the Word that was with God and was God? Not “a god” as the JWs corrupts the text.

Are you and your husband “One flesh”, then why do you say the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit cannot be one God and one Spirit?

Jesus said he and the Father are “One”. Why cannot that mean he is “One” with the Father literally as “One Spirit”? That is why they were going to stone him because he claimed to be equal to the Father.

If you believe Jesus is just “a god” then who is he “a god” too since satan is the god of this world?

If to you Jesus is “a god” and he is your Lord then is he your God?

Blessings WJ

January 10, 2011 at 4:22 pm#232625

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….5;st=10

Participant

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 10 2011,10:14)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 11 2011,01:46)

Quote (princess @ Jan. 08 2011,18:29)

to be found sinless, means one was judged.

Unless one has committed an offence there is no need for a trial or a judge. What are you talking about? Where is scripture that says Jesus was judged?

Keith,

I had once said here:

Quote

Wow! I can't believe you (t8) said that salvation through Christ is an antichrist doctrine. Again I say wow!

Then Paul (Is. 1:18) replied:

Quote

I can. It's a race to the bottom when it comes to the Arian assessment of Yeshua. That's the nature of their theology.

So far princess is beating all others to the bottom by saying that there was need for Christ to be judged.

Congratulations princess! You are ahead all others in the race to the bottom!

Roo

Quote

I can. It's a race to the bottom when it comes to the Arian assessment of Yeshua. That's the nature of their theology.

Hi Jack

I like Is 1:18 statement because it is true that the antitrins goal is to diminish Jesus rather than exalt him!

Blessings Keith

January 10, 2011 at 4:26 pm#232626

Istari

Participant

Roo,
Is this your response to Princess?
Please can you show where you 'imply' that Jesus was judged.

Referring to another poster's comments in this instance is not a response to Princess' question.

I, too, am interested in your answer – your straight answer: Scripture verses where Jesus is judged.

Please note that I am interested in your answer which does not in itself imply any judgement on your potential response.

January 10, 2011 at 4:27 pm#232628

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 09 2011,21:27)

Hey D, will the “them” that Jesus speaks of here also be God Almighty at some point?

Mike

Well according to your theology we are already gods that are going to be one with God Almighty.

God with Gods.

January 10, 2011 at 5:04 pm#232630

Participant

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 11 2011,02:26)

Roo,
Is this your response to Princess?
Please can you show where you 'imply' that Jesus was judged.

Referring to another poster's comments in this instance is not a response to Princess' question.

I, too, am interested in your answer – your straight answer: Scripture verses where Jesus is judged.

Please note that I am interested in your answer which does not in itself imply any judgement on your potential response.

Istari,

Princess said that Jesus was judged and not I. I see you got two tiles already after having been banned. Thunbs up!

Roo

January 10, 2011 at 5:09 pm#232631

Participant

Irene wrote:

Quote

SF, Keith and Francis!

Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.

Irene,

In Isaiah 43:11 God said, “Besides Me there is no Savior.” And in 44:8 He said, “Besides me there is no other Rock. Yet Jesus is REPEATEDLY called “THE Savior” in the new testament and Paul calls Christ “the Rock” ( 1 Cor. 10).

Be consistent!

Roo

January 10, 2011 at 5:36 pm#232635

Participant

From Mikeboll vs. Francis debate

Francis said to Mike:

Quote

So right off the bat, you first switched “God” for “god”… and then you sneaked in the words/sentence: Jesus is called by the title “god”. I never said those words and neither does Hebrews 1:8.

Yeap! That's our Mike. But we still love him.

Roo

January 10, 2011 at 5:41 pm#232636

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 11 2011,02:19)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 10 2011,01:40)

SF, Keith and Francis!

Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.

Deu 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:

Hi Irene

We believe all the scriptures that you post but none of them say Jesus is not God, do they?

You say Jesus is “a god” but how do you reconcile that with the first scripture you posted?

Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that “the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.

Who is your Lord Irene? Who was it with the Father in the beginning that was called the Word that was with God and was God? Not “a god” as the JWs corrupts the text.

Are you and your husband “One flesh”, then why do you say the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit cannot be one God and one Spirit?

If you believe Jesus is just “a god” then who is he “a god” too since satan is the god of this world?

If to you Jesus is “a god” and he is your Lord then is he your God?

Blessings WJ

Keith! It says LORD in capital letters and that is Jehovah God. There is no other God and LORD in capital letters. I explained that. Jehovah God not Jesus….And who is the Head of Jesus??
You like to make Jesus God, so you think Heb is equal to Jehovah God, but Eoh.4:6 And John14:28 tells us that Jesus Father is above all and greater then Jesus by Jesus own words. And who is the Head of Jesus?
Peace Irene

January 10, 2011 at 6:14 pm#232637

Kangaroo Jack Jr.

Participant

Irene said:

Quote

Keith! It says LORD in capital letters and that is Jehovah God. There is no other God and LORD in capital letters. I explained that.

The “LORD” in all capital letters said, “Besides me there is no other Rock. I know of none“ (Is. 44:6-10). Paul said that Jesus is the “Rock” (1 Corinthians 10).

Either Jesus is the “LORD” in all capital letters or Paul knew something that the “LORD” in all capital letters did not.

Even Roo Jr can understand this.

Roo Jr.

January 10, 2011 at 6:41 pm#232638

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 10 2011,11:41)

Keith! It says LORD in capital letters and that is Jehovah God. There is no other God and LORD in capital letters.

Irene

The litteral Hebrew and Greek text do not have capitol letters.

The capitol letters were added by the translators. So if you accept the scriptures that capitolize God for the Father then why not for Jesus.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the “Word was God“. John 1:1

All the translations except the NWT that I know of capitolize God for the Word.

And what about this scripture which you often quote and it is clearly Jesus…

And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS“. Rev 19:16

You didn't answer my questions.

Blessings Keith

January 10, 2011 at 6:54 pm#232639

Participant

Hi Irene

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 10 2011,11:41)

You like to make Jesus God, so you think Heb is equal to Jehovah God,

The scriptures call Jesus “God”. Irene, you are contradicting yourself because you say Jesus is 'a god” yet there is “Only One True God”. Then you accuse me of making Jesus God. John said Jesus was equal to God..(John 1:1 – John 5:17, 18)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 10 2011,11:41)

…but Eoh.4:6 And John14:28 tells us that Jesus Father is above all and greater then Jesus by Jesus own words. And who is the Head of Jesus?

And this has been explained to you. In context your husband is greater than you, but is your husband a greater human than you?

If you say Jesus is “a god” then is he “your god”?

Blessings WJ

January 10, 2011 at 7:02 pm#232640

Participant

The problem with the “antitrins” that believe Jesus is “a god” in John 1:1 is they should either believe he is “The True God”, One with the Father or become a Unitarian that believes he is not “a god” at all which would mean they would not believe in his pre-existence.

I think the Unitarians have a better argument than the “Arians” against the Trinity for the Arians have to have a Polytheistic view of scriptures to make them work in their theology, but then they have to deny a ton of scriptures that says Jesus is the Word and pre-existed!

January 10, 2011 at 8:17 pm#232642

Kangaroo Jack Jr.

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 11 2011,05:02)

Amen Keith!

The Unitarians are at least consistent.

Jack

January 10, 2011 at 8:18 pm#232643

Participant

Hi all

I think that Francis makes some good points in the following debate with Mike. He points out some of the tactics and fallacies that can be made in a debate when one of the posters misquotes the other then proceeds making an argument that is not related. The following quotes are found Here…

“

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 05 2011,22:30)

Now let's get to the solutions.

Let's do it!!

————————

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 05 2011,22:30)

I have posted a scripture that has Jesus calling the Father “my God”. You have posted one from Hebrews in which Jesus is called by the title “god”.

There are a couple of issues right off the bat that I want to address here.

1)… Notice how you sneaked in your interpretation of Hebrews 1:8 into what you claim I had posted? Almost making it sound as if this is what I had posted to you in response to Revelation 3:12.

The fact is, I never characterized my answer, nor did I post a scripture from Hebrews “in which Jesus is called by the title “god” as you say. I specifically posted Hebrews 1:8 in which Jesus is called God by God.

So right off the bat, you first switched “God” for “god”… and then you sneaked in the words/sentence: Jesus is called by the title “god”. I never said those words and neither does Hebrews 1:8.

2)… I didn't supply Hebrews 1:8 as part of my opening position to answer the Prima Facia question of whether Jesus is God… the very “problem” you identified earlier in your post. Hebrews 1:8 was only a direct response to the scripture you posted that has Jesus calling the Father “my God” (Revelation 3:12). Even so… I still think that Hebrews 1:8 is good evidence to show that Jesus is God.

3)… In response to the scripture you posted that has Jesus calling the Father “my God” (Revelation 3:12), I gave 4 clues about what Jesus meant when He said “my God” while referring to God the Father. I didn't just respond with Hebrews 1:8.”

————————

Francis makes some very good points!

Blessings WJ

January 10, 2011 at 8:30 pm#232644

princess

Participant

Quote

The Unitarians are at least consistent

triads judge their god.
catholics kiss their god.
muslims die for their god.
ect..ect…ect…

a moot point.

January 10, 2011 at 8:40 pm#232645

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 11 2011,04:41)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 10 2011,11:41)

Keith! It says LORD in capital letters and that is Jehovah God. There is no other God and LORD in capital letters.

Irene

The litteral Hebrew and Greek text do not have capitol letters.

The capitol letters were added by the translators. So if you accept the scriptures that capitolize God for the Father then why not for Jesus.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the “Word was God“. John 1:1

All the translations except the NWT that I know of capitolize God for the Word.

And what about this scripture which you often quote and it is clearly Jesus…

And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS“. Rev 19:16

You didn't answer my questions.

Blessings Keith

Keith! I explained why the Translators used LORD and Lord, has nothing to do with the original transcript. Both Jesus and His Father have other names. You know that. If you goggle” God” a lot of information comes up. The reason capital letters were not given to Jesus is that His Father is greater and to show the difference. Scripture shows that there is not another God that is like Jehovah God, even so the name God is used for others in Ancient times.
1 Corinth. 8:5 says so. Just because “God” is used does not contradict all other Scriptures….We know that the Head of men is Christ and the Head of Christ is God.
Peace Irene

January 10, 2011 at 9:14 pm#232648

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 11 2011,04:54)

Hi Irene

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 10 2011,11:41)

You like to make Jesus God, so you think Heb is equal to Jehovah God,

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 10 2011,11:41)

…but Eoh.4:6 And John14:28 tells us that Jesus Father is above all and greater then Jesus by Jesus own words. And who is the Head of Jesus?

And this has been explained to you. In context your husband is greater than you, but is your husband a greater human than you?

If you say Jesus is “a god” then is he “your god”?

Blessings WJ

Keith! Even so Hebrew uses God for Jesus and His Father, still that does not erase the fact that YAHWEH (His Name) is greater and above Jesus title God, and the Head of Jesus. WE can't just take one name and title and say now they are equal. Then you have to do that with all those who are called Gods…..that then has to include Satan, and that we know is not so…the explanation about my Husband, He is greater then me. The trouble with marriages that fail, is that the woman wants to wear the pants. Any time we disagree with each other, we discuss it and He has the final word. So it is with Jesus and His Father. John shows that Jesus came to do the will of His Father. And also says that His Father is greater…. Scripture also says Husbands love your Wife. You ask me if Jesus is my God. No. He is my King and Lord, and I honor Him and go through Jesus to come to the Throne of God and worship. He is our Mediator, between His Father and us. We wouldn't need a Mediator if both be equal. The first great Commandment is to Love your God with all of your Heart and all of your mind. Have no other Gods before thee….That is also why I worship YAHWEH only and honor Jesus our King and lord, our Heavenly Brother…Did I answer all question? If I didn't tell me OK.
Peace Irene

January 10, 2011 at 9:34 pm#232649