Mikeboll64 vs francis

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 05 2011,03:43)

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 04 2011,08:38)

Ok, Worshipping Jesus,

I apologise for my ADHOMINEM (What is that anyway?)

Please can you just answer the following questions:

Quote

Worshipping Jesus, please indulge me one more time…

If Jesus is the Son of god from Eternity…how did he become the Son…
For there to be a father – there has to be a Son.
First the MAN then the Father at the conception of the Son…
So the MAN must have existed before becoming a Father…yet Trinity says the Son always existed…please explain, thank you.

I look forward to your early response (or just whenever!) but an answer no less – I am intrigued as to your reply – excited even….

Thank you.

Istari

Apoology accepted! However once again do you require that I only answer your questions and you not answer mine?

But I will answer you again.

You do know that in scriptures not all Sons were Sons by conception right? Also not all Sons were first born Sons by conception.

But even so, if Jesus is the “Only Begotten Son of God” by conception, would he be anything less than God in nature or would he be a “freak of nature”, a demi-god if you will?

Human Fathers beget Human Sons that are in every way human like their Fathers.

Therefore the divine part of Jesus born from the Father is in every way God like his Father.

Now what do you do with the scriptures that call Jesus God?

Is the term Son of God antithetical to the term God? If so, in what way?

Blessings WJ

Hi WJ,

You sound very much like a Catholic, why don't you go all the way with this 'idea'
and say that Mary was the mother of God (as they do); and if not, why not? …Please explain?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 4, 2011 at 7:29 pm#231847

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 04 2011,23:15)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 04 2011,13:05)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 04 2011,20:24)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,18:56)

How old are you?

Hi Dennison

Funny, I was going to ask him the same thing.

It seems like I know this guy. I think he is an “alias”. Could be Martian all over again, he has done that before.

Blessings WJ

Hi WJ,

I have pondered about that.
Thing is that would be quite dishonest in his part if that were true.

From what i have studied about his first posts, his personality is ALIKE JA's and Martains at times, but not exactly.

though he almost worships JA, but i dont think its the same person because his writing style is tad different.

and his attitude at first was timid, and asking questions here and there. (playing dumb, but not actually dumb)

Than when he saw an opening he showed his true colors, (attacking, and accusing, as he also desires to be on TOP, his Ambition has been exposed)

So, until now, i have no reason to believe that he is someone else, though he could be JA, or Martian.

Who knows.

Point is he isnt intrested in discussing scriptures but his doctrinal views of “sonship” and “titles of gods” and other such man-made doctrines.

SF,
Go here:

Left click on the link in the 4th post down and your eyes will be opened

Lol,
Im confused….
explain?

he is from the Uk, isn that where JA is from?

January 4, 2011 at 7:33 pm#231848

KangarooJack

Participant

COPIED FROM ANOTHER FORUM

Jane Doe wrote

Quote

Some translators recognized the redundancy of those two words, if both applied to Christ, and translated Jude 1:4 this way:

(Jude 1:4 YLT) for there did come in unobserved certain men, long ago having been written beforehand to this judgment, impious, the grace of our God perverting to lasciviousness, and our only Master, God, and Lord–Jesus Christ–denying,

(Jude 1:4 RNKJV) For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, wicked men, turning the grace of our Elohim into lasciviousness, and denying the only Master Elohim, and our Master Yeshua the Messiah.

(Jude 1:4 WEB Â) For there are certain men who crept in secretly, even those who were long ago written about for this condemnation: ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master, God, and Lord, Jesus Christ.

(Jude 1:4 KJV) For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Considering the above translations, I'm thinking it might be difference in the manuscripts used or given preference. It would need further digging to determine if it was the manuscript used or the translators' choice.

Hi Jane,

First, it is not about translator's choice. It is about which manuscripts are the most reliable. The earliest manuscripts simply say “Our only despotes and kurios Jesus Christ.” The word “God” is not found at all in the earliest manuscripts. Even the NWT which is non-trinitarian reads this way.

Second, the word “kurios” (Lord) in verse 4 is clearly a reference to Jesus Christ and in verse 5 it says that the “kurios” led the people out of Egypt.

Quote

4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. Jude 4-5 NIV

The “kurios” (Lord) of verse 4 is clearly Jesus Christ and He delivered the people out of Egypt. The word “kurios” does not mystically and magically change reference in verse 5.

Third, the oldest manuscripts say “Jesus” in verse 5

Quote

4For certain people have crept in unnoticedwho long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. Jude 4-5 ESV

Fourth, Jesus Christ is explicitly called “the true God and eternal life” in 1 John 5:20

Quote

20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. 1 John 5:20 NIV

The “true God and eternal life” is Jesus. The demonstrative “He” refers to Jesus and the Father is never called “eternal life.”

All the translations which have the word “God” in verse 4 including Young's are from later manuscripts. Early manuscripts do not have the word “God” in verse 4. The earliest have the name “Jesus” in verse 5.

Quote

5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. Jude 4-5 ESV

So it is not about translators choice. It is about which manuscripts are the most reliable. And even in the later manuscripts Jesus is the “kurios” (Lord) who delivered the people out of Egypt.

Roo

January 4, 2011 at 7:34 pm#231849

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 05 2011,05:10)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 04 2011,15:41)

Hi SF,

You want me to ask you questions then; OK.

What did Shaool (The Apostle Paul) plant in 1Cor.3:6?

Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

I dont know Why dont you tell me

Hi SF,

The seed is “The Word” of God (which is the “HolySpirit” inside us). (Luke 8:11)

Shaool (The Apostle Paul) planted “The Word” in people, making them
the children of the kingdom. Just as when Jesus did the planting.
That will help you to understand these next verses…

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go
not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat (Jesus=74) fall into
the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much “fruit”(74).

The “Word”(λογος) of God (fruit in us) grew and multiplied. (Act 12:24)

(Lōgôs) [λογος]=373 means “Word”, and 373 is the 74th Prime Number! (See John 1:1)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 4, 2011 at 7:35 pm#231850

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 05 2011,05:11)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 04 2011,15:42)

Hi Tim,

The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and
“The Word” which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 12:49-50 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak
therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. (1Cor.3:6)

Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
1Corinthians 3:6 I HAVE PLANTED, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Who is Tim?

Hi Dennison,

Sorry, I meant SF; it was a post for you.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 4, 2011 at 7:37 pm#231851

KangarooJack

Participant

COPIED FROM ANOTHER FORUM

Jane Doe wrote

Quote

Some translators recognized the redundancy of those two words, if both applied to Christ, and translated Jude 1:4 this way:

(Jude 1:4 WEB ®) For there are certain men who crept in secretly, even those who were long ago written about for this condemnation: ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master, God, and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Hi Jane,

Second, the word “kurios” (Lord) in verse 4 is clearly a reference to Jesus Christ and in verse 5 it says that the “kurios” led the people out of Egypt.

Quote

5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. Jude 4-5 NIV

The “kurios” (Lord) of verse 4 is clearly Jesus Christ and He delivered the people out of Egypt. The word “kurios” does not mystically and magically change reference in verse 5.

Third, the oldest manuscripts say “Jesus” in verse 5

Quote

5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. Jude 4-5 ESV

Fourth, Jesus Christ is explicitly called “the true God and eternal life” in 1 John 5:20

Quote

The “true God and eternal life” is Jesus. The demonstrative “He” refers to Jesus and the Father is never called “eternal life.”

Quote

5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. Jude 4-5 ESV

Roo

January 4, 2011 at 7:38 pm#231852

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 04 2011,21:43)

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 04 2011,08:38)

Ok, Worshipping Jesus,

I apologise for my ADHOMINEM (What is that anyway?)

Please can you just answer the following questions:

Quote

Worshipping Jesus, please indulge me one more time…

I look forward to your early response (or just whenever!) but an answer no less – I am intrigued as to your reply – excited even….

Thank you.

Istari

Apoology accepted! However once again do you require that I only answer your questions and you not answer mine?

But I will answer you again.

You do know that in scriptures not all Sons were Sons by conception right? Also not all Sons were first born Sons by conception.

But even so, if Jesus is the “Only Begotten Son of God” by conception, would he be anything less than God in nature or would he be a “freak of nature”, a demi-god if you will?

Human Fathers beget Human Sons that are in every way human like their Fathers.

Therefore the divine part of Jesus born from the Father is in every way God like his Father.

Now what do you do with the scriptures that call Jesus God?

Is the term Son of God antithetical to the term God? If so, in what way?

Blessings WJ

Nicely Putt WJ,

Thats where we are at the moment.
The Alternative View has its contradictions to deal with.

If Jesus is not God, what is he.
He is not an Angel, and he is not Human,

So what IS he exactly.
And the Devil cannot be compared to Jesus.

WJ,
as i said, as soon as they admitted that there are other gods the debate ended right there.
There is nothing left to argue.

For the Antitrins to say that we believe in more than one God is also a fallacy because it shows the lack of understanding in what WE believe.

So thats it, the Alternative is nonesense.

January 4, 2011 at 7:43 pm#231855

Lightenup

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 04 2011,13:29)

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 04 2011,23:15)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 04 2011,13:05)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 04 2011,20:24)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,18:56)

How old are you?

Hi Dennison

Funny, I was going to ask him the same thing.

It seems like I know this guy. I think he is an “alias”. Could be Martian all over again, he has done that before.

Blessings WJ

Hi WJ,

I have pondered about that.
Thing is that would be quite dishonest in his part if that were true.

From what i have studied about his first posts, his personality is ALIKE JA's and Martains at times, but not exactly.

though he almost worships JA, but i dont think its the same person because his writing style is tad different.

and his attitude at first was timid, and asking questions here and there. (playing dumb, but not actually dumb)

Than when he saw an opening he showed his true colors, (attacking, and accusing, as he also desires to be on TOP, his Ambition has been exposed)

So, until now, i have no reason to believe that he is someone else, though he could be JA, or Martian.

Who knows.

Point is he isnt intrested in discussing scriptures but his doctrinal views of “sonship” and “titles of gods” and other such man-made doctrines.

SF,
Go here:

Left click on the link in the 4th post down and your eyes will be opened

Lol,
Im confused….
explain?

he is from the Uk, isn that where JA is from?

SF,
Do exactly as I told you to do…LEFT click on the link that is in the 4th post down on that page and see who becomes the author of the post.

It is very clever, deceptive, but clever…I'll give him that

January 4, 2011 at 7:52 pm#231857

Participant

HI All,
I loved this response that Francis said,
I have been trying to communicate this, but at times i cant write what I understand mentally.
Like i Cant express or communicate it the best way at times.
but the way this guy worded it was a bulls-eye

Quote

—>>> Okay… now let's get back to your quote above: Yes…I am well aware of Revelation 3:12 and other verses where Jesus uses the phrase “my God” or where the phrase “his God” is used. Some of the verses are speaking connection with Jesus' human nature. And the other verses are speaking of Jesus' relationship within the Trinity.

Like I said above, the Trinity says that there is only ONE GOD who cannot ever be divided. And so it was in that sense that I was saying that God cannot have a “my God” or a “his God” because that would be a LOGICAL contradiction in terms. It would imply multiple Gods… and that is completely false.

As I mentioned to you before in my last post, one of the important hermeneutic principles in understanding scriptures is to interpret scripture with scripture. This means that however we interpret and understand a scripture, it cannot be an interpretation or understanding that contradicts other scripture. There has to be harmony among the scriptures… and among our understanding of the scriptures because God does not contradict Himself. We may get it wrong and find all kinds of suppossed contradictions, but God does not contradict Himself.

All right then… let's see… we have verses which shows that Jesus is God. We also have verses in which Jesus says “my God” while in heaven (and on earth). And we have verses in which Jesus appears to be subordinate to God the Father… 1 Corinthians 15:28… 1 Corinthians11:3… to name a couple.

But at the same time… we know that God is ONE in nature and cannot be divided. We also know that there is only one God. We know in John 5:18 that when Jesus called God “His own Father”, He was making Himself equal with God… not inferior or less than God. We also see from John 20:28 that when Thomas calls Jesus “my God”, Jesus doesn't correct him… further indicating that Jesus is making Himself equal with God… and not inferior or less than God. And then I listed a few more verses which also indicates that Jesus is God (John 8:58… John 10:31-33… Mark 14:62)

——–>>>> That is one clue right there. Jesus' claim that He is equal with God.
The fact that Jesus considered Himself equal with God in the above verses, and when He called God His own Father, shows that Jesus is not implying that He is any less in essence or substance or nature than God… than God his Father. So whatever Jesus meant when He said “my God”… it wasn't the idea that He was inferior to God… or that He wasn't God… or that there are multiple Gods.
If the scriptures are in harmony… and if God does not contradict Himself… and if there is only one God… and if Jesus is God and equal with God His Father in nature and substance and essence and attributes as scriptures teach… then the phrase “my God”… and the above scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:28… 1 Corinthians11:3) must NOT be saying that Jesus is inferior or “less than” than God… but something entirely different.

——–>>>> Another clue can be found in Hebrews 1:8-10.
Hebrews 1:8-9 (New International Version, ©2010)

But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.” He also says, “In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.

Hebrews 1:10 (New King James Version)
But to the Son He says: “ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” And:“ You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.

Now… if God can call Jesus God… and if God says that Jesus can call God “your God” (his God)… and if God can call the Son “Lord” without losing the status of being Lord and God Himself, then the Son can call the Father “God”… “his God”… without implying any inferiority to God or being “less than” God in nature and essence.

This alone should show that whatever Jesus meant when He called God “his God”, it wasn't meant to mean that Jesus was inferior. Indeed… God calls Jesus “God” and “Lord”.

But we won't stop here because there are other very real alternative possible interpretations for the phrase “my God” other than implying inferiority or “less than”.

——–>>>> Which brings us to a another clue. That different functioning roles in a heirachy do not necessarily imply inferiority..

1 Corinthians 15:28 (New King James Version)
Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

1 Corinthians 11:3 (New King James Version)
But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

The undiluted truth is that because one person may be under the authority of another person… or be voluntarily in submission to another person… or because they have a different role… this does not have to mean that this person is somehow less or inferior in substance and essence than the other person. Therefore… verses that suggests that Jesus is somehow subordinate or under submission at times to the Father (his God), it DOES NOT NECESSARILY FOLLOW that Jesus MUST BE… or HAS TO BE… less than or inferior to God His Father.

Now… in the absence of any other verses, then it could very well mean that Jesus is inferior or less than God His Father… or less than and inferior to God… and in that case you would have an argument there. But we do have verses which shows that Jesus is God… and so any claim that the phrase “his God” or “my God” somehow means that Jesus is not God… or that Jesus is inferior to God or inferior to God the Father… or that this shows that multiple Gods exist… is logically unsustainable and untenable.

Remember that the scriptures have to be in harmony with each other… and the concept of the Trinity nicely brings together all these seemingly contradictory verses together and harmonizes them by making sense of them and showing that there are no actual contradictions.

I think it is clear from the above two verses of 1Corinithians, that there is a functional hierarchy that exists within the members of the Triune God. For example, the Father sends His “Son” Jesus Christ to redeem mankind, and the Son sends the Holy Spirit to indwell Christian believers.

So when Jesus calls the Father “God” while Jesus is in His Divine Nature… He is not implying inferiority or that He is less than God. Instead, Jesus is demonstrating that He is still the authority of His Father God. In the same way that one would not argue that a human son is an
inferior “human” simply because his father is in a “greater” position as leader of the family, so it is incorrect to argue that Jesus is an inferior “God” simply because His Father is in a position of authority over Him. The human son is under the authority of his human Father, and yet are both equally human. It's that same kind of idea that describes the relationship and hierarchy between God the Father and God the Son within the Trinity.

This idea is further amplified below with scriptural examples.

So to reiterate… the simple fact that because Jesus is under the Father’s authority… and that Jesus calls the Father “my God”… it doesn’t change the fact that Jesus, in His Divine nature, is just as much “God” as His Father is “God”. It's that kind of relationship… that kind of community… than kind of functional hierarchy and roles within the Trinity which I think helps to explain why Jesus called the Father His “God”.

——–>>>> Another clue can be found in Exodus 4:16

Exodus 4:16 New King James Version (NKJV)
So he shall be your spokesman to the people. And he himself shall be as a mouth for you, and you shall be to him as God.

This verse shows that there can be structured relationships such as headship among equals. In Exodus 4:16 we see that Moses' serving as God to Aaron did not change the fact that Moses and Aaron were equals in their humanity. Similarly, the Father and the Son can be equals as to their Deity, with the Father serving as Head or God to the Son. Just as Aaron can view Moses as God, and yet be equal to Moses, shows how the same kind of relationship can exist within the Trinity between the Father and the Son.

CONCLUSION:
You've pointed to the phrase “my God” as evidence that Jesus is not God.

In rebuttal, I've pointed to Hebrew 1:8-10 which shows that God called Jesus “God” and “Lord”. I've given very reasonable alternatives and meanings for the phrase “my God” that are entirely different than the one you've given. And finally, I've presented other verses that convincingly demonstrates (I believe) that Jesus is God… which conclusively puts to rest your entire argument on this point about inferring that Jesus is inferior to God when He said “my God”.

January 4, 2011 at 7:53 pm#231858

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 05 2011,05:16)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 05 2011,03:43)

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 04 2011,08:38)

Ok, Worshipping Jesus,

I apologise for my ADHOMINEM (What is that anyway?)

Please can you just answer the following questions:

Quote

Worshipping Jesus, please indulge me one more time…

I look forward to your early response (or just whenever!) but an answer no less – I am intrigued as to your reply – excited even….

Thank you.

Istari

Apoology accepted! However once again do you require that I only answer your questions and you not answer mine?

But I will answer you again.

You do know that in scriptures not all Sons were Sons by conception right? Also not all Sons were first born Sons by conception.

But even so, if Jesus is the “Only Begotten Son of God” by conception, would he be anything less than God in nature or would he be a “freak of nature”, a demi-god if you will?

Human Fathers beget Human Sons that are in every way human like their Fathers.

Therefore the divine part of Jesus born from the Father is in every way God like his Father.

Now what do you do with the scriptures that call Jesus God?

Is the term Son of God antithetical to the term God? If so, in what way?

Blessings WJ

Hi WJ,

You sound very much like a Catholic, why don't you go all the way with this 'idea'
and say that Mary was the mother of God (as they do); and if not, why not? …Please explain?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Bump for SF

January 4, 2011 at 7:54 pm#231860

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 04 2011,23:43)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 04 2011,13:29)

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 04 2011,23:15)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 04 2011,13:05)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 04 2011,20:24)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,18:56)

How old are you?

Hi Dennison

Funny, I was going to ask him the same thing.

It seems like I know this guy. I think he is an “alias”. Could be Martian all over again, he has done that before.

Blessings WJ

Hi WJ,

I have pondered about that.
Thing is that would be quite dishonest in his part if that were true.

From what i have studied about his first posts, his personality is ALIKE JA's and Martains at times, but not exactly.

though he almost worships JA, but i dont think its the same person because his writing style is tad different.

and his attitude at first was timid, and asking questions here and there. (playing dumb, but not actually dumb)

Than when he saw an opening he showed his true colors, (attacking, and accusing, as he also desires to be on TOP, his Ambition has been exposed)

So, until now, i have no reason to believe that he is someone else, though he could be JA, or Martian.

Who knows.

Point is he isnt intrested in discussing scriptures but his doctrinal views of “sonship” and “titles of gods” and other such man-made doctrines.

SF,
Go here:

Left click on the link in the 4th post down and your eyes will be opened

Lol,
Im confused….
explain?

he is from the Uk, isn that where JA is from?

SF,
Do exactly as I told you to do…LEFT click on the link that is in the 4th post down on that page and see who becomes the author of the post.

It is very clever, deceptive, but clever…I'll give him that

OMGGGGGGG
NOW I GET IT!!

HAHA!!

so clever…..
He stoped with the Poetry, which through me off a bit.

smart.

January 4, 2011 at 7:57 pm#231862

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 04 2011,23:53)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 05 2011,05:16)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 05 2011,03:43)

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 04 2011,08:38)

Ok, Worshipping Jesus,

I apologise for my ADHOMINEM (What is that anyway?)

Please can you just answer the following questions:

Quote

Worshipping Jesus, please indulge me one more time…

I look forward to your early response (or just whenever!) but an answer no less – I am intrigued as to your reply – excited even….

Thank you.

Istari

Apoology accepted! However once again do you require that I only answer your questions and you not answer mine?

But I will answer you again.

You do know that in scriptures not all Sons were Sons by conception right? Also not all Sons were first born Sons by conception.

But even so, if Jesus is the “Only Begotten Son of God” by conception, would he be anything less than God in nature or would he be a “freak of nature”, a demi-god if you will?

Human Fathers beget Human Sons that are in every way human like their Fathers.

Therefore the divine part of Jesus born from the Father is in every way God like his Father.

Now what do you do with the scriptures that call Jesus God?

Is the term Son of God antithetical to the term God? If so, in what way?

Blessings WJ

Hi WJ,

You sound very much like a Catholic, why don't you go all the way with this 'idea'
and say that Mary was the mother of God (as they do); and if not, why not? …Please explain?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Bump for SF

im not WJ,
whats wrong with you?

January 4, 2011 at 8:11 pm#231865

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 05 2011,05:38)

Nicely Putt WJ,

Thats where we are at the moment.
The Alternative View has its contradictions to deal with.

If Jesus is not God, what is he.
(1) He is not an Angel, and he is not Human,

So what IS he exactly.
(2) And the Devil cannot be compared to Jesus.

WJ,
as i said, as soon as they admitted that there are other gods the debate ended right there.
There is nothing left to argue.

For the Antitrins to say that we believe in more than one God is also a fallacy because it shows the lack of understanding in what WE believe.

So thats it, the Alternative is nonesense.

Hi SF,

You're not addressing my Post? (and I ain't WJ either)

1) Jesus is the “Son of God”; is this a problem (in some way) for you?

2) Anybody or anything can be compared with anything; why do you say otherwise?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 4, 2011 at 8:27 pm#231868

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 05 2011,00:11)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 05 2011,05:38)

Nicely Putt WJ,

Thats where we are at the moment.
The Alternative View has its contradictions to deal with.

If Jesus is not God, what is he.
(1) He is not an Angel, and he is not Human,

So what IS he exactly.
(2) And the Devil cannot be compared to Jesus.

WJ,
as i said, as soon as they admitted that there are other gods the debate ended right there.
There is nothing left to argue.

For the Antitrins to say that we believe in more than one God is also a fallacy because it shows the lack of understanding in what WE believe.

So thats it, the Alternative is nonesense.

Hi SF,

You're not addressing my Post? (and I ain't WJ either)

1) Jesus is the “Son of God”; is this a problem (in some way) for you?

2) Anybody or anything can be compared with anything; why do you say otherwise?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed J,

I dont get you. your asking WJ about your “catholic point” yet your bumping me?

That is what i dont understand.
Of course im not addressing your post, because it wasnt addressed towards me, but towards WJ

Get it?

1) What do you define as the “Son of God”
2) Cold cannot be compared to Hot, because they are opposites. neither Good nor Evil. nor Light with Dark.
Perfect and imperfection have no comparison.
10 is not like 1. and 1 million cannot be compared to 1.

The Devil is a fallen Angel that cannot be compare at the slighest towards Christ who has victory over him.

You compare that Jesus is God as much as Satan is.
Jesus is over Satan, so how can that be true?

thats nonesense. you would have to prove how Satan is equal to Jesus, and what attributes does satan hold to be a “god amoung other gods”

January 4, 2011 at 8:37 pm#231869

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 05 2011,06:27)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 05 2011,00:11)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 05 2011,05:38)

Nicely Putt WJ,

Thats where we are at the moment.
The Alternative View has its contradictions to deal with.

If Jesus is not God, what is he.
(1) He is not an Angel, and he is not Human,

So what IS he exactly.
(2) And the Devil cannot be compared to Jesus.

WJ,
as i said, as soon as they admitted that there are other gods the debate ended right there.
There is nothing left to argue.

For the Antitrins to say that we believe in more than one God is also a fallacy because it shows the lack of understanding in what WE believe.

So thats it, the Alternative is nonesense.

Hi SF,

You're not addressing my Post? (and I ain't WJ either)

1) Jesus is the “Son of God”; is this a problem (in some way) for you?

2) Anybody or anything can be compared with anything; why do you say otherwise?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed J,

I dont get you. your asking WJ about your “catholic point” yet your bumping me?

That is what i dont understand.
Of course im not addressing your post, because it wasnt addressed towards me, but towards WJ

Get it?

(1) What do you define as the “Son of God”
(2) Cold cannot be compared to Hot, because they are opposites. neither Good nor Evil. nor Light with Dark.
Perfect and imperfection have no comparison.
10 is not like 1. and 1 million cannot be compared to 1.

(3) The Devil is a fallen Angel that cannot be compare at the slighest towards Christ who has victory over him.

(4) You compare that Jesus is God as much as Satan is.
(5) Jesus is over Satan, so how can that be true?

(6) thats nonesense. (7)you would have to prove how Satan is equal to Jesus, (8)and how attributes does satan hold to be a “god amoung other gods”

Hi Dennison,

1) Jesus the Christ.
2) All those things can be compared.

3) They can be compared as well.

4) I don't do that? And furthermore what you said does not make any sense?
5) YHVH is over satan. YHVH was in Jesus and now YHVH is in us.

(6) Your point number 4 sure is!
(7) That is irrelevant to a comparison.
(8) Read 2Cor.4:4 with Job 41:34 in light.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 4, 2011 at 8:47 pm#231872

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 05 2011,00:37)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 05 2011,06:27)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 05 2011,00:11)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 05 2011,05:38)

Nicely Putt WJ,

Thats where we are at the moment.
The Alternative View has its contradictions to deal with.

If Jesus is not God, what is he.
(1) He is not an Angel, and he is not Human,

So what IS he exactly.
(2) And the Devil cannot be compared to Jesus.

WJ,
as i said, as soon as they admitted that there are other gods the debate ended right there.
There is nothing left to argue.

For the Antitrins to say that we believe in more than one God is also a fallacy because it shows the lack of understanding in what WE believe.

So thats it, the Alternative is nonesense.

Hi SF,

You're not addressing my Post? (and I ain't WJ either)

1) Jesus is the “Son of God”; is this a problem (in some way) for you?

2) Anybody or anything can be compared with anything; why do you say otherwise?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed J,

I dont get you. your asking WJ about your “catholic point” yet your bumping me?

That is what i dont understand.
Of course im not addressing your post, because it wasnt addressed towards me, but towards WJ

Get it?

(3) The Devil is a fallen Angel that cannot be compare at the slighest towards Christ who has victory over him.

(4) You compare that Jesus is God as much as Satan is.
(5) Jesus is over Satan, so how can that be true?

(6) thats nonesense. (7)you would have to prove how Satan is equal to Jesus, (8)and how attributes does satan hold to be a “god amoung other gods”

Hi Dennison,

1) Jesus the Christ.
2) All those things can be compared.

3) They can be compared as well.

4) I don't do that? And furthermore what you said does not make any sense?
5) YHVH is over satan. YHVH was in Jesus and now YHVH is in us.

(6) Your point number 4 sure is!
(7) That is irrelevant to a comparison.
(8) Read 2Cor.4:4 with Job 41:34 in light.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

1) Ok.
2) Prove that.
3) Prove that.
4) Exactly. I assumed you agreed with Mike and the Rest that Jesus is God as much as Satan is the “God of this world”
5) Ok
6) Its not my contention. but the Anti-Trins contention.
7) Prove that. based on what?
8) Ok And?

January 4, 2011 at 9:05 pm#231875

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 04 2011,13:16)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 05 2011,03:43)

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 04 2011,08:38)

Ok, Worshipping Jesus,

I apologise for my ADHOMINEM (What is that anyway?)

Please can you just answer the following questions:

Quote

Worshipping Jesus, please indulge me one more time…

I look forward to your early response (or just whenever!) but an answer no less – I am intrigued as to your reply – excited even….

Thank you.

Istari

Apoology accepted! However once again do you require that I only answer your questions and you not answer mine?

But I will answer you again.

You do know that in scriptures not all Sons were Sons by conception right? Also not all Sons were first born Sons by conception.

But even so, if Jesus is the “Only Begotten Son of God” by conception, would he be anything less than God in nature or would he be a “freak of nature”, a demi-god if you will?

Human Fathers beget Human Sons that are in every way human like their Fathers.

Therefore the divine part of Jesus born from the Father is in every way God like his Father.

Now what do you do with the scriptures that call Jesus God?

Is the term Son of God antithetical to the term God? If so, in what way?

Blessings WJ

Hi WJ,

You sound very much like a Catholic, why don't you go all the way with this 'idea'
and say that Mary was the mother of God (as they do); and if not, why not? …Please explain?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

If you notice the words “Even so” in other words “if” I believed Jesus is “Born from the Father by conception” then how could he not be in nature God since like begets like?

However I do not believe Jesus was born by conception except through the incarnation. I believe that he was “Eternally Begotten” from the Father without a beginning which is what most of the early Church Fathers believed and what I believe the scriptures teach.

Blessings WJ

January 4, 2011 at 9:08 pm#231876

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 04 2011,13:54)

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 04 2011,23:43)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 04 2011,13:29)

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 04 2011,23:15)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 04 2011,13:05)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 04 2011,20:24)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,18:56)

How old are you?

Hi Dennison

Funny, I was going to ask him the same thing.

It seems like I know this guy. I think he is an “alias”. Could be Martian all over again, he has done that before.

Blessings WJ

Hi WJ,

I have pondered about that.
Thing is that would be quite dishonest in his part if that were true.

From what i have studied about his first posts, his personality is ALIKE JA's and Martains at times, but not exactly.

though he almost worships JA, but i dont think its the same person because his writing style is tad different.

and his attitude at first was timid, and asking questions here and there. (playing dumb, but not actually dumb)

Than when he saw an opening he showed his true colors, (attacking, and accusing, as he also desires to be on TOP, his Ambition has been exposed)

So, until now, i have no reason to believe that he is someone else, though he could be JA, or Martian.

Who knows.

Point is he isnt intrested in discussing scriptures but his doctrinal views of “sonship” and “titles of gods” and other such man-made doctrines.

SF,
Go here:

Left click on the link in the 4th post down and your eyes will be opened

Lol,
Im confused….
explain?

he is from the Uk, isn that where JA is from?

SF,
Do exactly as I told you to do…LEFT click on the link that is in the 4th post down on that page and see who becomes the author of the post.

It is very clever, deceptive, but clever…I'll give him that

OMGGGGGGG
NOW I GET IT!!

HAHA!!

so clever…..
He stoped with the Poetry, which through me off a bit.

smart.

Dennison

Thats funny, I also was thinking of looking for peotry next. I think we have an “alias” here. It seems to me if they get banned then it would block their IP, of course he could be using a different IP.

If it looks like a duck and smells like a duck and quacks like a duck… it probably is a duck!

Blessings Keith

January 4, 2011 at 9:23 pm#231877

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 05 2011,01:08)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 04 2011,13:54)

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 04 2011,23:43)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 04 2011,13:29)

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 04 2011,23:15)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 04 2011,13:05)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 04 2011,20:24)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,18:56)

How old are you?

Hi Dennison

Funny, I was going to ask him the same thing.

It seems like I know this guy. I think he is an “alias”. Could be Martian all over again, he has done that before.

Blessings WJ

Hi WJ,

I have pondered about that.
Thing is that would be quite dishonest in his part if that were true.

From what i have studied about his first posts, his personality is ALIKE JA's and Martains at times, but not exactly.

though he almost worships JA, but i dont think its the same person because his writing style is tad different.

and his attitude at first was timid, and asking questions here and there. (playing dumb, but not actually dumb)

Than when he saw an opening he showed his true colors, (attacking, and accusing, as he also desires to be on TOP, his Ambition has been exposed)

So, until now, i have no reason to believe that he is someone else, though he could be JA, or Martian.

Who knows.

Point is he isnt intrested in discussing scriptures but his doctrinal views of “sonship” and “titles of gods” and other such man-made doctrines.

SF,
Go here: