Mikeboll64 vs francis

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,15:16)

Hi Ed,

Quote

Hi Dennison,

1) The “HolySpirit” is what makes us children of the kingdom. …………………”Feast of Booths”
Jesus sacrifice enabled him to baptize us with the “HolySpirit”. ………………”Pentecost”
It was because Jesus was made like unto his brethren (Son of Man). ……”The Passover”

Again: Who is the Identity “Son of Man” who is sowing good seeds?

Hi Dennison,

Jesus lineage explained

“Son of Man”: 25%; Mary's mother's lineage was of the tribe of Levi. (Luke 1:5, 1:36)
“Son of Man”: 25%: Mary's father's lineage was (Judah) through Nathan(son of David). (Luke 3:23-31)
“Son of God”: 50%: Jesus' Father was the “HolySpirit”; NOT Joseph! (Mathew 1:18 / Mathew 1:20 / Luke 1:35)

Birth: Jesus was 50% HolySpirit(God)(Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35), 25% Levite(Priest) and 25% Judah(King)!
Baptism by John the baptizer, Jesus was filled with the HolySpirit(God) beyond measure! (John 3:34 / John 1:14)

By this diagram you can plainly see Jesus is both “Son of Man” and “Son of God”.

Mother Father
Mary HolySpirit
50% 50%
\ /
\ /
Jesus
/ \
/ \
/ \
Son of Man Son of God
(Mark 6:3) (Luke 1:35)

Matt.13:34-35 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables;
and without a parable spake he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which
was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter
things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Luke 10:31-36 is a parable about Jesus dieing: “The Son of Man”(John 12:31-34)
Luke 10:31-36 And Jesus answering said, A certain man(Jesus called The Christ)
went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his
raiment(Matt.27:28), and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead(Luke 23:46).
And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by
on the other side. And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and
passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and
when he saw him, he had compassion on him, And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring
in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And
on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto
him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbor unto him that fell among the thieves?

This parable explains how his death enabled him to plant the Good seed.
John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat(Jesus=74) fall
into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much “fruit”(74).

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 3, 2011 at 6:37 am#231530

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,15:16)

Hi Ed,

You didnt answer subpoint
I Repeat:

Quote

a) You Said:

Quote

We are all “The Son's of Man”,

How can that be true if Jesus says the Devil is the Father of liars, and of the “tares”

Hi Dennison,

This is not a question either.
But merely a comment on your disbelief.

Now that believers are filled with the “HolySpirit”,
believers(Son of Man) can now sow good seed as well. (1Cor.3:6)

The devil sows the tares. (Keep the questions coming, that's how you learn!)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 3, 2011 at 6:38 am#231531

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,15:16)

Hi Ed,

Quote

2) There is no question in point #2. Also you don't see the word “ALL” in my response; do you?

I misread that. Let me Restate the situation with #2
I Asked:

Quote

2) Question: Is the Children of the Kingdom, the same as the Sons of God, Children of the Light?

Quote

2) We are predesignated to be “The Son's of God”; the same as Jesus was. (Romans 8:29)

In other words Ed, lets start from my orginal question.
(A)Who are the Children of the kingdom?
(B)you said “we” are predsignated to be “The Son's of God”
Who is “we”?

Hi Dennison,

A) The Believers.
B) The Believers.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 3, 2011 at 9:51 am#231532

Participant

Istari,

Quote

But I had already asked of WorshippingJesus:

Quote

If Jesus is the Son of god from Eternity…how did he become the Son…
For there to be a father – there has to be a Son.
First the MAN then the Father at the conception of the Son…
So the MAN must have existed before becoming a Father…yet Trinity says the Son always existed…please explain, thank you.

I understand that. but I wanted to know exactly what YOU believed. I cant just assume.

Quote

God becomes a Father the moment a Son is created… Ipso facto: He was not a Father until that moment…

Im glad we agree. So before time began, God was simply a Supreme Being within Eternity.

Quote

Jesus is THREE TIMES “Son of God”.

1) In Heaven as an Angel
2) As Man in the Flesh (The second ADAM – A Sinless Man in the Flesh)
3) As Raised up/Begotten of God (Son of God WITH Power)

So your saying there are degrees of “Sonship”?
Question: Do you believe that Jesus created the world and angels and everything else?

January 3, 2011 at 9:52 am#231533

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 03 2011,10:36)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,15:21)

Mike,

These question arise:
1) he is Crazy
2) he is claiming to be an angel
3) he is claiming to be God

honestly, what else would a person think?

Hi Dennison,

Um, ah, da, um, that he's claiming to be “The Son of God” maybe?

Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

So what your saying that the Jews believed he was calling himself the “son of God” by stating that he is “before abraham”?

January 3, 2011 at 9:57 am#231534

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 03 2011,10:37)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,15:16)

Hi Ed,

You didnt answer subpoint
I Repeat:

Quote

a) You Said:

Quote

We are all “The Son's of Man”,

How can that be true if Jesus says the Devil is the Father of liars, and of the “tares”

Hi Dennison,

This is not a question either.
But merely a comment on your disbelief.

Now that believers are filled with the “HolySpirit”,
believers(Son of Man) can now sow good seed as well. (1Cor.3:6)

The devil sows the tares. (Keep the questions coming, that's how you learn!)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Wow.
haha… Im sorry.
I just cant understand how its easy for you to believe that the Devil sows the tares, and you cant seem to understand that its Christ who solely sows the good seeds.

Its not Us, but Christ in us.
6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase The verse you posted, said nothing about seeds begettting seeds.

(i think you need to start asking logical questions of you own, because it seems that you need to learn as well)

January 3, 2011 at 9:58 am#231535

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 03 2011,10:35)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,15:16)

Hi Ed,

Quote

Let's try to avoid 'spin'; OK? First you change “Son of Man” into “Son of God”. Next you add in the word “ALL”.
It seems both of these actions were an attempt to make what I have been telling you into something false.
Perhaps there really is: 'a threat to be concerned about'? Why else would you be bothered by my statement…

No Attempt. Just a Misunderstanding.
You have to look at it the way I See “understood” your post.
it was a simple mistake.

Of course im bothered by your statement, because it seems you are not here to learn, but instead you are desperate to Teach.

Hi Dennison,

Not desperate at all, abundantly patient.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

I doubt that, or u wouldnt be spamming the same thing over, and over again.

January 3, 2011 at 10:03 am#231536

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,04:47)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 03 2011,04:37)

Hi Dennison,

First let's start by you not altering what the text says; OK?

Matt.13:37…He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; …Are you saying: the “The Son of Man” is God?

Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

No Ed J,
I ask you alot of questions that you are still refusing to answer.

Dont hound keith for not answering questions and than do the very same thing.

and second. The Verse you posted, says that the one that sowed is the Son of Man, and the good seeds are the children of the kingdom.

Question: Is the Son of Man, the same as The Son of God, Jesus Christ?
Question: Is the Children of the Kingdom, the same as the Sons of God, Children of the Light?

Im going to answer my own questions Ed:

1) The Son of Man, and the Son of God, is the same person, Jesus Christ.
2) The Children of the Kingdom are the same as Sons of God and children of the light mention many times in the bible.

Its clear that the Son of Man is the one conforming the “seeds” into His image, into a state of perfection for the great harvest.

January 3, 2011 at 1:46 pm#231551

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,19:52)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 03 2011,10:36)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,15:21)

Mike,

These question arise:
1) he is Crazy
2) he is claiming to be an angel
3) he is claiming to be God

honestly, what else would a person think?

Hi Dennison,

Um, ah, da, um, that he's claiming to be “The Son of God” maybe?

So what your saying that the Jews believed he was calling himself the “son of God” by stating that he is “before abraham”?

Hi SF,

What the Pharisees were or were not thinking does not concern me;
however, the biblical reference and how it relates to what Jesus was saying does.

John 8:56-58 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Abraham rejoiced seeing Jesus day. Before Jesus day, satan was controlling Planet Earth.
But Abraham's faith would be justified by Jesus sacrifice removing all sin. (Romans 4:7-25)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 3, 2011 at 1:53 pm#231552

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,19:57)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 03 2011,10:37)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,15:16)

Hi Ed,

You didnt answer subpoint
I Repeat:

Quote

a) You Said:

Quote

We are all “The Son's of Man”,

How can that be true if Jesus says the Devil is the Father of liars, and of the “tares”

Hi Dennison,

This is not a question either.
But merely a comment on your disbelief.

Now that believers are filled with the “HolySpirit”,
believers(Son of Man) can now sow good seed as well. (1Cor.3:6)

The devil sows the tares. (Keep the questions coming, that's how you learn!)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Wow.
haha… Im sorry.
I just cant understand how its easy for you to believe that the Devil sows the tares, and you cant seem to understand that its Christ who solely sows the good seeds.

Its not Us, but Christ in us.
6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase The verse you posted, said nothing about seeds begettting seeds.

(i think you need to start asking logical questions of you own, because it seems that you need to learn as well)

Hi SF,

You want me to ask you questions then; OK.

What did Shaool (The Apostle Paul) plant in 1Cor.3:6?

Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 3, 2011 at 5:30 pm#231578

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2011,20:09)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 02 2011,07:20)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2010,19:55)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 01 2011,08:36)

Is THE FATHER the Only One True Powerful Ruler mentioned in scripture? Yes or No, Keith.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 01 2011,08:36)

Mike

The answer is Yes!

Keith, if the answer is YES, then what's left to discuss? If the FATHER is the One, then Jesus is NOT that One……………UNLESS…………….Jesus IS the Father.

Is he Keith?

No Mike , your assumption is based on a narrow view of God. The scriptures teach that The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are God. The problem you have is you do not reconcile the scriptures in your theology. You have a contradiction. You say “There is Only One True God” but then you say “There are other “true gods” which is contrary to what the scriptures teach.

Hi Keith,

Are you stuck now? You mention “contradictions” of scripture? Scripture says, “yet for us there is but ONE God………THE FATHER”. That's it. That's what SCRIPTURE says, Keith.

Mike it is you that is stuck. The Apostles and Forefathers and the scriptures call Jesus God, yet there is “Only One True God”. So that means that either Jesus is “One” God with the Father or he is a “false god” or a usurper or an imposter. There is no other option based on the language of the scriptures unless you delete, or white out the scriptures that say Jesus is God..

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2011,20:09)

For you to say Jesus is God CONTRADICTS that scripture that says THE FATHER is our ONE God.

For you to say Jesus is not God means you are denying the scriptures. Look again Mike, no scripture anywhere says Jesus is not God. 1 Cor 8:6 says…

…yet for us there is “but one God“, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; “AND” there is but “one Lord“, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

The Apostle doesn’t stop with the Father being God but includes Jesus in the same breath with equal attributes to the Father and says we only have “One Lord. So is Paul saying the Father is not Lord? No, no more than he is saying that Jesus is not God.

The scriptures say Jesus is God, but they do not say anywhere that he is not God. So that leaves you with a contradiction if you do not believe all the scriptures.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2011,20:09)

How will you deal with that without using diversion tactics?

The diversion tactics is done by you Mike by trying to put Jesus in the same category of being “a god” like all the others even though the scriptures say there is “ONLY ONE TRUE GOD”. Your faith is based on Polytheism because you have chosen to see there are many gods. Mine is based on Monotheism because I believe the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are One God who shares the same essence that makes God, God. My faith and confession is in agreement with Isaiah, John, Thomas, Peter, Paul, Jude, Luke and many of the Forefathers.

January 3, 2011 at 5:42 pm#231579

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2011,20:42)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 02 2011,07:37)

No Mike

We haven't settled anything. For even if the word God simply means “Powerful ruler” then to say there is “Only One Powerful ruler” would mean there are no other “Powerful rulers”. That’s simple English.

Hi Keith,

And considering it was Jesus saying “ONLY TRUE GOD” to his Father in heaven, and considering he didn't say, “US, the only true God”, but “YOU, the only true God”, you are the one with the conundrum.

Mike

Mike again the text doesn’t say Jesus is not God. Notice how Jesus said that knowing the Father and him is a prerequisite to having eternal life. The same one that penned this scripture is the same one who said Jesus was claiming equality with God and he is the same one that wrote John 1:1 and 1 John 1-3 and 1 John 5:20 which shows Jesus as the “Eternal Life” that was with the Father and that is also the “True God”.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2011,20:42)

Face it Keith, the second member of your alleged trinity Godhead says that THE FATHER is the “only true God”. And Paul says THE FATHER is our ONE God. Whatever will you do?

And whatever will you do with the scriptures that say Jesus is God? BTW Is1:18 (Paul) debunks your “Arian” interpretation of John 17:3 here!

January 3, 2011 at 6:03 pm#231581

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2011,20:48)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 02 2011,07:53)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2010,20:49)

And as Keith and I have agreed, to the English, “god” means “powerful ruler”.

Mike

No we haven't! I simply played your game to show you how even if you word it that way it still means there is “Only One True God” and no others. That is scriptural Mike.

Hi Keith,

This post from page 23 answers your repeated questions, and leaves one from me unanswered. Please address the bolded part:

Now we're getting somewhere Keith.

Is God the ONLY one in scripture who is “A powerful ruler”? Absolutely not.

Exactly Mike, which is why you cannot say that the word “God” simply means “A Powerful Ruler” since there is “Only One True God”.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2011,20:48)

So did Paul lie when he said there is but ONE “powerful ruler”? How about Jesus when he said that YHVH was the ONLY true “powerful ruler”? These are statements of emphasis Keith. They assure us that while there are many who are “powerful rulers”, there is only one who is the MOST POWERFUL RULER.

You see, there you go again? Why do you insist on this fallacy? Why do you keep manipulating the words by moving the goal post?

First you say that YHVH is the “Only True Powerful Ruler” then you say there is only “One Most Powerful Ruler”! So does God mean “One Most Powerful Ruler” or “powerful ruler”, you can’t have it both ways Mike.

If there is “Only One True Powerful Ruler” then there can’t be any other “true powerful rulers”. If there is “Only One Most Powerful Ruler” then there can’t be any other “Most Powerful Ruler” How is it you do not get this?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2011,20:48)

I find it funny that you so whole-heartedly argue about there being only ONE true God, but so easily dismiss the fact that both Jesus and Paul said that ONE true God is THE FATHER.

How can you get down to the nitty gritty about there being ONLY ONE powerful ruler, but neglect to understand that it is THE FATHER ONLY?

Because we know that the word “God” does not mean “powerful ruler” and if it does you still loose because Jesus is sitting next to the Father having all “Authority and Power” in his hands which according to your own definition means he is God.

January 3, 2011 at 6:12 pm#231582

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 02 2011,03:56)

Hi WJ,

I have a question for you…

If you say the son of God is God, then how come
you don't say the children of the devil are the devil?

Here is the biblical reference…

John 8:44: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no
truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

But the children of the Devil have the same nature of the Devil but were they literally born of satan?

Jesus is eternally Begotten from the Father. So you see there is no comparison. Jesus is called God and the scriptures say he shares the same essence of God, that which makes God, God. Heb 1:3

So I have a question for you…

Is the term “Son of God” antithetical to the term God, and if so how?

January 3, 2011 at 6:16 pm#231586

Participant

Bump for Mike!

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2010,20:36)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 01 2011,10:57)

Mike
You skipped this which i thought WJ Made an excellent point

Quote

You see Mike Jesus is not a god simply by title like all the other false gods because Jesus fulfills the Role of being God. Yet you do not admit that he is your God. How sad indeed.

Who is Jesus “The God” of Mike, since you have no problem saying satan is “The God of this world“?

I did answer it to Keith. Look harder.

mike

Really. I must have missed it.

Could you please show me agian cause I can't find it. So let me ask it again…

Who is Jesus “The God” of Mike, since you have no problem saying satan is “The God of this world“?

Blessings WJ

January 3, 2011 at 6:23 pm#231590

KangarooJack

Participant

Worshippingjesus said:

Quote

Both the Father and the Son are called “despotes” in scripture which means “SUPREME Ruler.” In Acts 4:24 the Father is called “despotes” and in Jude 4 Christ is called “only despotes.” So by Mike's logic the Father must be excluded from being called “only despotes” because Christ is called the “only despotes” (supreme ruler).

If the expression “only God” in reference to the Father must exclude Jesus, then the expression “only despotes” in reference to Christ must exclude the Father. Yet the scripture says that the Father is “despotes” just as clearly as it says that Christ is “God.”

Roo

January 3, 2011 at 6:39 pm#231593

Participant

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 03 2011,12:23)

Worshippingjesus said:

Quote

Roo

Hey Jack

Amen! Good to see you back!

Blessings Keith

January 3, 2011 at 6:47 pm#231594

Baker

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 04 2011,03:30)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2011,20:09)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 02 2011,07:20)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2010,19:55)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 01 2011,08:36)

Is THE FATHER the Only One True Powerful Ruler mentioned in scripture? Yes or No, Keith.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 01 2011,08:36)

Mike

The answer is Yes!

Keith, if the answer is YES, then what's left to discuss? If the FATHER is the One, then Jesus is NOT that One……………UNLESS…………….Jesus IS the Father.

Is he Keith?

Hi Keith,

Are you stuck now? You mention “contradictions” of scripture? Scripture says, “yet for us there is but ONE God………THE FATHER”. That's it. That's what SCRIPTURE says, Keith.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2011,20:09)

For you to say Jesus is God CONTRADICTS that scripture that says THE FATHER is our ONE God.

For you to say Jesus is not God means you are denying the scriptures. Look again Mike, no scripture anywhere says Jesus is not God. 1 Cor 8:6 says…

The scriptures say Jesus is God, but they do not say anywhere that he is not God. So that leaves you with a contradiction if you do not believe all the scriptures.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2011,20:09)

How will you deal with that without using diversion tactics?

Keith! You say that there is but One God, but the trinity is three in One? That makes three and not one. A Mystery? A Mystery Religious….the Roman Universal Church. Universal is Catholic Church……The first Church after the three bloody and brutal centuries. All was changed the Sabbath to Sunday, all Holy Days (Lev.23) to all Holidays like Christmas and Easter. All pagan….
One more thing that makes the Holy Spirit the Father of Jesus….. Now don't give me a cotton- picken answer to the Holy Spirit which you did before. Answer it intelligently. Jesus never claimed to be Almighty God, but Scripture does say this in

Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

and the Word became flesh in verse 14

The Word of God will come again as

Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Also

Hbr 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Hbr 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

But Jesus also said that

Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

And

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one G
od, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

now Keith if you want to label me go right ahead. Or are you going to be nice and explain these scriptures to me…..The trinity is a man made doctrine and not of God. It was Quintus Septimus Florence Tertullian who in the third century came up with it. And Constantine made it a law.

Peace Irene

January 3, 2011 at 6:59 pm#231595

Istari

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,19:51)

Istari,

Quote

But I had already asked of WorshippingJesus:

Quote

I understand that. but I wanted to know exactly what YOU believed. I cant just assume.

Quote

God becomes a Father the moment a Son is created… Ipso facto: He was not a Father until that moment…

Im glad we agree. So before time began, God was simply a Supreme Being within Eternity.

Quote

Jesus is THREE TIMES “Son of God”.

1) In Heaven as an Angel
2) As Man in the Flesh (The second ADAM – A Sinless Man in the Flesh)
3) As Raised up/Begotten of God (Son of God WITH Power)

So your saying there are degrees of “Sonship”?
Question: Do you believe that Jesus created the world and angels and everything else?

Dennison,

Quote

So your saying there are degrees of “Sonship”?

Yes, in terms of closeness to God.
1) Jesus is the closest Son, PreEminent Heir to God, the TRUE SON. Jesus is MAN in Spirit Form, the TRUE Son of God as ADAM was meant to be if he had not sinned.

2) The other Human 'yet to be Begotten' Sons of God who will be like Christ – Brothers WITH Christ, and as Brothers with him, also Heirs of God (But not preEminent) – All who have the spirit of Holiness in them – awaiting the adoption (Waiting, like bridesmaids for the bridegroom to appear at the great Wedding ceremony (Do you understand that in Jewish culture in those times it was the bride who waited for the Groom – waited until even midnight and so she knew not when he was coming and had to watch with her bridesmaid for his coming and then make sure she was prepared for him!!!)

3) Sons of God as Humans in the Paradise Earth after the second resurrection and judgement.

4) The Angels are Son of God but not FREE Sons as Jesus and the other begotten human Sons are Free. 'For god did not make the world to come to be in subjection by Angels [Spirit Sons of God]'

All Sons of God in descending order of closeness to God.

Michael is said to be “ONE OF THE CHIEF Princes”
– who are the other Princes?
– How many other CHIEF Princes are there?
– Who is THE CHIEF PRINCE?
Clearly, if there are Chief Princes, there are subordinate Princes. subordinate others. And clearer than clear, there is ONE SUPREME Princes, unless God holds them equal. But then why say “ONE of the Chief Princes”?
Gabriel, 'Stands in the Presence of God'. So clearly, others do not, else why say it at all.

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Question: Do you believe that Jesus created the world and angels and everything else?

Dennison, I believe that scriptures says that the World(s) and everything else were created “Through Jesus” not that Jesus CREATED the World(s) and everything else.

Dennison, it is best to maintain the context and mode of the scriptures as slipping will lead to complete conjecture that will result in pointless arguments.

What does “Through” Jesus mean? God created the World9s) and Everything else. God tells us so himself many many many times “I, alone, am He who created the Heavens and the Earth”.

“Through” – By means of… “I lit the fire”…I 'LIT' the fire…
I lit the fire BY MEANS of this FIRELIGHTER…
The fire was started through the firelighter.

I built this house? really, brick by brick? Well, not really, that Architect built it?
Really, that Architect with a pencil and paper, he built it?
No, no, but it was THROUGH HIM that the house was built…
Oh, so you mean HE DIDN'T BUILD the HOUSE?
No, but he got labourers to build it – each man specialising in a given aspect of house building – Yes, then, through HIM AND the labourers, I built my House.

I commanded my house to be built by the uttering of my word.
My Architect administered them who were to carry out the actual work – adhering to every nuance of my command – carrying out my orders to the very “WORD”, PRECISELY as i ordered.

So, yes, THROUGH HIM, the worlds were created and everything else, also.

“And the Stars sang together – and the Sons of God shouted with joy.”

January 3, 2011 at 7:01 pm#231596