Mike vs wj on begotten and firstborn

[mikeboll64]

Hi WJ,

Your point A is as follows:

You said:

Quote

Was the term “Monogenes” ever given to Jesus before his natural birth?

I said:

Quote

Not that scripture records.

You said:

Quote

Thank you. Then end of discussion right? Your confession here now means that anytime you say that the word Monogenes applies to Jesus before he came in the flesh is merely conjecture on you part.

Notice that your point A has nothing at all to do with Ignatius, or whether I can prove Jesus had a beginning, or whether “monogenes” is a title or a happening or a time or whatever.  I will address those things and others WHEN we get to those points.  But your point A is this ONLY:

WJ said:  Thank you. Then end of discussion right? Your confession here now means that anytime you say that the word Monogenes applies to Jesus before he came in the flesh is merely conjecture on you part.

My rebuttal, or “show what?” reply is this:

YES……….BUT,

Is that fact that we didn't know Jesus was the only begotten Son of God until he said so to Nicodemus PROOF that he WASN'T the only begotten Son of God BEFORE he told Nicodemus that he was?

mike

[Worshipping Jesus]

t8

I request you delete this duplicate thread thread and bring this one over!

BTW Mike “first born” is not “pasa ktisis” but “prōtotokos”.

WJ

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 06 2010,09:13)

t8 I request you delete this duplicat thread thread and bring this one over! BTW Mike “first born” is not “pasa ktisis” but “prōtotokos”. WJ

What is it with you, WJ? This is the same post with the same point A. Just answer the question.

btw, don't you think I know what prototokos and pasa ktisis mean? Haven't we been going round and round about these words and what Eusebius thought they meant and so on? I had limited type space. Did you not get the point?

mike

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 05 2010,20:31)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 06 2010,09:13) t8 I request you delete this duplicat thread thread and bring this one over! BTW Mike “first born” is not “pasa ktisis” but “prōtotokos”. WJ What is it with you, WJ?  This is the same post with the same point A.  Just answer the question. btw, don't you think I know what prototokos and pasa ktisis mean?  Haven't we been going round and round about these words and what Eusebius thought they meant and so on?  I had limited type space.  Did you not get the point? mike

Mike

The title of this thread is…

Mike vs wj on begotten and firstborn, Monogenes and pasa ktisis

You must be speaking of a debate with Jack for I have not discussed pasa ktisis.

The Title of the other thread is…

Mike vs. wj on begotten and firsborn, What the greek words really mean.

The discussion has been about the words “begotten” (Greek – Monogenes) and “Firstborn” (Greek – prōtotokos), and not about “pasa ktisis”.

WJ

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 06 2010,15:12)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 05 2010,20:31) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 06 2010,09:13) t8 I request you delete this duplicat thread thread and bring this one over! BTW Mike “first born” is not “pasa ktisis” but “prōtotokos”. WJ What is it with you, WJ?  This is the same post with the same point A.  Just answer the question. btw, don't you think I know what prototokos and pasa ktisis mean?  Haven't we been going round and round about these words and what Eusebius thought they meant and so on?  I had limited type space.  Did you not get the point? mike Mike The title of this thread is… Mike vs wj on begotten and firstborn, Monogenes and pasa ktisis You must be speaking of a debate with Jack for I have not discussed pasa ktisis. The Title of the other thread is… Mike vs. wj on begotten and firsborn, What the greek words really mean. The discussion has been about the words “begotten” (Greek – Monogenes) and “Firstborn” (Greek – prōtotokos), and not about “pasa ktisis”. WJ

Point taken. Count on pasa ktisis coming up along with prototokos.

mike

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