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Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 17 2010,20:28) He is your Savouir your Redeemer your very reason why you live or have any chance of having eternal life. This Jesus, is the only way.
Then we don't need the Father anymore at all, right?Seriously Dennison, who do you think set it up so we could only come to God through Jesus? And what is the ultimate goal we have here? Is it to come to Jesus? Or is it to come THROUGH Jesus' name……..TO GOD?
mike
ps thanks JA
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 22 2010,08:34) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 17 2010,20:28) He is your Savouir your Redeemer your very reason why you live or have any chance of having eternal life. This Jesus, is the only way.
Then we don't need the Father anymore at all, right?Seriously Dennison, who do you think set it up so we could only come to God through Jesus? And what is the ultimate goal we have here? Is it to come to Jesus? Or is it to come THROUGH Jesus' name……..TO GOD?
mike
ps thanks JA
Wow mike,
The low blow,I remeber putting this in my debate fallacy section.
Stating what has not been said as proof of something.
Soooo now Im saying we dont need the Father… wow mike..wow….mike
guess what,
WOW.
what does scripture say mike, that we must know the Lord God and Jesus Christ who was sent, thats eternal life,
Jesus said this himself,We must KNOW Jesus.
We Must KNOW GOD,
Can we know God without Jesus- NO
Can we Know Jesus and not know God- No
Knowing Jesus is knowing God- Yes
If we see the Son we see the Father- double Yesdo we take one without the other? NO
The Ultimate goal is to Know God and Jesus.
and since its impossible to Know God,
than we must KNOW Jesus.of course we need a father genuis, for we need Jesus that gave us the RIGHTS to cry OUT TO HIM “ABBA” FATHER!.
geezzzzz
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 22 2010,17:17) The Ultimate goal is to Know God and Jesus.
and since its impossible to Know God,
than we must KNOW Jesus.
I answered to this last night, but I guess it didn't post.
SF:
Quote The Ultimate goal is to Know God and Jesus.
and since its impossible to Know God,
than we must KNOW Jesus.
You're close to the truth here. Everlasting life means taking in knowledge of both of them. But the ultimate goal is to get back to a one on one relationship with God. It is not “impossible” to know God, but for the time being, we can only approach Him through His Son.Think about this Dennison. We cannot approach God directly anymore like Adam and Abraham and Moses did. God apparently does not want to come into contact with the immense amount of sin we've aquired throughout the years. Now by contrast, His Son Jesus, who is NOT God, was able to not only come in contact with our sins, but was also able to take all that sin upon himself.
I see it like our sin is the “winter flu”. God made a vaccine available to us that would eliminate the flu forever. Jesus is the Walgreen's that is distributing the “flu shots”. We are the millions of people driving by with a choice to make: To get the flu shot or not.
In other words, the sacrifice of Jesus wasn't God saying, “Okay, you can all do whatever you want, because all your past, present and future sins are forgiven.” The sacrifice of Jesus was God saying, “Now that I've sacrificed my own beloved Son just so I might not have to abandon or wipe out every last one of you sinful humans, all you have to do is heed his words. If you can finish your earthly life by doing your best to follow the example my Son set for you and by appplying his teachings to your everyday life, then when that earthly life has ended, I will be able to look upon you as if you had never sinned. Through the sacrifice of my beloved, I have made it so I can still be righteous in my own eyes, even as I call you righteous.”
Do you agree with that assessment? If so, then you must agree that the “ultimate goal” is not to get to Jesus, but to be as a brother of Jesus, hanging out with him in the presence of his Father. The goal is to get to God. God's Son has been placed, not as another God, nor as a part of “the totality of God”, but as our Priest to God. He is the mediator BETWEEN mankind and God. Get it? He is lower than God, but higher than us. He is our Priest.
Picture Aaron. He was Israel's priest to God. People came to him as God's representative on earth, and he would lead them TO God. Jesus has the same role, although he will be an everlasting Priest. We will come to Jesus…….for what? We will come to Jesus SO HE CAN LEAD US TO GOD. Do you see it? Our ULTIMATE goal is not to make it as far as Jesus the Priest. Our ULTIMATE goal is to have Jesus accept us as pure enough for him to bring us all the way to our God.
peace and love,
mikeMike,
It does not say that you must have “knowledge” of both of them.
The bible says in Romans that they KNEW God and walked away from him choosing corruptiable things.So its talking abotu relationship.
like what Paul says in
Philippains 3:10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;IT is impossible to Know God, or see him! we can only approach him through the son.
Abraham did not approach God directly, and Moses did not either.
Only Adam walked with God.Think about it Mike,
God Hates everything of the world.
The Son who was Always with the Father took our transgressions upon himself and took our punishment.
He was never contaminated, because he was perfect scrafise.
Just as a lamb that is scraficed for the sins of Israel, yet the imperfect beastly lamb is innocent yet takes the burden.
The same With Christ, he took it on, but was never contaminated.Sin is not a winter flu,
We are Dead, zombies living for carnal desires or blind in the darkness,
and there is a light of man who is Jesus Christ.
And its not a one-time encounter that saves you, its dwelling in the Light that does, dwelling in life.Its not a one time shot, its a our daily bread, our daily dependancy on him.
For he is the Bread of Life,The Choice is having eteranl life or not.
God sent his Son so that he may be Christ in US.
The gospel about Jesus being ALIVE again, should not be taken in vain.
Learning from Jesus “teachings” can occur today and at every moment.
The same way Jesus spoke to Paul in his way to Damascous, the same he can do with us.
Jesus is alive brother and can teach us at any day and at any time,
To learn from we must know him.OUR best means nothing, its like filthy rags towards God.
Its about Knowing God, walking with him, and we do that by knowing his Son.
by Knowing him, sharring in his ressurection, and partake in his sufferings.
This is the way of Love.You can search the scriptures, like the Rich young man who followed every law, but couldnt simply follow Jesus and give away all that he had, no matter what he did, eternal life is not found in the search in scriptures but it is found my knowing Jesus.
Even those who Claim Lord Lord, and preached and gave prohpecy and casted out demons and healed, and yet the Lord said to DEPART for he didnt know them.
Our Works dont matter.
Good fruits is produced by the Children of light either way, its natural and its going to occur, its not something achievable its a effect of being a follower of Christ.God can look at us as if we never sinned when he sees the blood of christ over us, when he see's his son IN US.
As his last prayer was to be ONE in Us.
This is the way to eternal life.
The ULTIMATE goal is to Know Jesus no matter what you say, because he is the only way, truth, and the light, the ONLY way to the Father.
The Son took many roles Mike,
He came as a Redeemer, a Messiah, a Prophet, a Teacher, Saviour, Master, Priest, and God Revealed. Aaron could not do all these things.Accept us as Pure enough?
When were we ever PURE enough?
He came for the Sinners, we cannot Convince Jesus, He Died so that everyone has the oppurtunity to have eternal life.By Knowing him we know the Father,
By knowing Him, we can have eteranal Life.We MUST know him.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 24 2010,16:36) Mike,
It does not say that you must have “knowledge” of both of them.
John 17:3 NWT
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.Scripture begs to differ with you.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 27 2010,08:20) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 24 2010,16:36) Mike,
It does not say that you must have “knowledge” of both of them.
John 17:3 NWT
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.Scripture begs to differ with you.
mike
wow than your translation cuts scripture…wow….
shall we go back to the greek?Greek Transliteration Strong's Morphology English
αὕτη autē 3778 D-NSF this
δὲ de 1161 CONJ And
ἐστιν estin 2076 V-PAI-3S is
ἡ ē 3588 T-NSF the
αἰώνιος aiōnios 166 A-NSF eternal
ζωὴ zōē 2222 N-NSF life
ἵνα ina 2443 CONJ that
γινώσκωσιν ginōskōsin 1097 V-PAS-3P they might know
σε se 4571 P-2AS thee
τὸν ton 3588 T-ASM
μόνον monon 3441 A-ASM only
ἀληθινὸν alēthinon 228 A-ASM true.
θεὸν theon 2316 N-ASM God
καὶ kai 2532 CONJ and
ὃν on 3739 R-ASM whom
ἀπέστειλας apesteilas 649 V-AAI-2S you sent
Ἰησοῦν iēsoun 2424 N-ASM Jesus
Χριστόν christon 5547 N-ASM Christ1097. ginóskó 1098 >>
to come to know, recognize, perceive
Original Word: γινώσκω
Transliteration: ginóskó
Phonetic Spelling: (ghin-oce'-ko)
Short Definition: allowFrom NETNotes:
ginosko
1) to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel
1a) to become known
2) to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge ofI'm having deja vu here.
I just had this exact same converstation about the exact same scripture with Shimmer in the “Procreate” thread.Are we cool now? Does “my” translation meet with your expert approval now?
peace and love,
mikeMike, so are you saying now that you agree with me, or just being conceited and trying to be right about everything?
can you now admit what i said was True,
You said:Quote Scripture begs to differ with you.
Do you still agree with what you said before, or now do you admit that what you said was incorrect?D:
Quote Mike, so are you saying now that you agree with me, or just being conceited and trying to be right about everything?
Well, let's see…….you said:Quote Mike,
It does not say that you must have “knowledge” of both of them.
Was I scripturally correct or not?The problem is that it seems your ultimate goal is to know Jesus and get to where he is. You look at Jesus as the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. He is not. God is that “pot of gold”. Jesus is the rainbow we must follow to find our way to that “pot of gold”.
He is the MEDIATOR between mankind and God. We are trying to get to God Himself…….not only as far as the mediator.
Hey D, I'm sorry but I get bored with the “I think/You think” stuff. We're discussing vague points here, like you thinking “Jesus is #1”. There are many ways to take that, and I'm not so much into the long “I think” posts. And it would take many of those kind of posts back and forth to narrow some of that “vagueness” down to a solid point we can discuss. (Look how many pages just on “Jesus is the beginning”)
When we come across a solid, concrete point that one of us makes that the other disagrees with……this thread will still be here for that. Cool?
peace and love,
mikeBy the way, Keith tells me that Jack is taking a LONG break from HN. Would you post my conclusion to the plural God debate and open it up to the public?
It's a great topic to shoot down you “oneness” freaks!
(You know I'm just kidding and I love you, right?)mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 01 2010,06:11) D: Quote Mike, so are you saying now that you agree with me, or just being conceited and trying to be right about everything?
Well, let's see…….you said:Quote Mike,
It does not say that you must have “knowledge” of both of them.
Was I scripturally correct or not?The problem is that it seems your ultimate goal is to know Jesus and get to where he is. You look at Jesus as the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. He is not. God is that “pot of gold”. Jesus is the rainbow we must follow to find our way to that “pot of gold”.
He is the MEDIATOR between mankind and God. We are trying to get to God Himself…….not only as far as the mediator.
Hey D, I'm sorry but I get bored with the “I think/You think” stuff. We're discussing vague points here, like you thinking “Jesus is #1”. There are many ways to take that, and I'm not so much into the long “I think” posts. And it would take many of those kind of posts back and forth to narrow some of that “vagueness” down to a solid point we can discuss. (Look how many pages just on “Jesus is the beginning”)
When we come across a solid, concrete point that one of us makes that the other disagrees with……this thread will still be here for that. Cool?
peace and love,
mike
since you got bored of this debate than hit me up whenever you want to debate sometihng between you and I.So we dont have to make anymore debate threads lets just continue to use this one to settle any future debates.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 01 2010,06:11) D: Hey D, I'm sorry but I get bored with the “I think/You think” stuff. We're discussing vague points here, like you thinking “Jesus is #1”. There are many ways to take that, and I'm not so much into the long “I think” posts. And it would take many of those kind of posts back and forth to narrow some of that “vagueness” down to a solid point we can discuss. (Look how many pages just on “Jesus is the beginning”)
When we come across a solid, concrete point that one of us makes that the other disagrees with……this thread will still be here for that. Cool?
peace and love,
mike
Wait, wait, wait,What the heck? i started the “I think/You think”
?I think not sure, that was all you, i asked you whats next you started bringin in your beliefs and what not.
we were debating something by scripture, until you changed it, i believe.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 01 2010,06:13) By the way, Keith tells me that Jack is taking a LONG break from HN. Would you post my conclusion to the plural God debate and open it up to the public? It's a great topic to shoot down you “oneness” freaks!
(You know I'm just kidding and I love you, right?)mike
Its done, i already posted it up.
Lol yes i know.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 04 2010,12:05) So we dont have to make anymore debate threads lets just continue to use this one to settle any future debates.
I concur.See ya in “created”.
mike
Mike,
Netnotes
Revelation 22:13
Context
NETBible I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end!) 1XREF Isa 41:4; Isa 44:6; Isa 48:12; Re 1:8,11; Re 21:6
NET © Notes 1 sn These lines are parenthetical, forming an aside to the narrative. The speaker here is the Lord Jesus Christ himself rather than the narrator.
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